Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pilots say new U.S. stealth fighter has no equal [F-22]
HeraldToday.com ^ | Wed, Dec. 21, 2005

Posted on 12/22/2005 2:06:56 AM PST by F14 Pilot

TYNDALL AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. - The Air Force's new F-22A Raptor is such a dominant fighter jet that in mock dogfights its pilots typically take on six F-15 Eagles at once.

Despite the favorable odds, the F-15s, still one of the world's most capable fighters, are no contest for the fastest radar-evading stealth jet ever built.

"The F-15 pilots, they are the world's best pilots," said Lt. Col. David Krumm, an F-22A instructor pilot. "When you take them flying against anyone else in the world, they are going to wipe the floor with them. It's a startling moment for them to come down here and get waylaid."

The F-22A officially became ready for combat this month with a squadron of 12 Raptors on standby for worldwide deployment at Langley Air Force Base, Va.

Those who know the Raptor best say it represents a major leap in U.S. warfighting abilities. At this Florida Panhandle base, where all Raptor pilots are trained, instructors say the jet's stealth, speed and ability to electronically scan the battlefield from the air are far superior to any other fighter.

"This is what's next," Krumm said. "The stuff that we have is great and it's capable, but this is what's next."

The Raptor, originally designed for air-to-air combat, was expanded to include a ground attack role. Pilots dropped bombs from Raptors for the first time last weekend in training exercises at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada.

One of the challenges is finding pilots for the single-seat Raptors, formerly designated F/A-22 to emphasize its ground attack role. The Air Force looks for experienced pilots with a background in fighters and bomb dropping, said Col. Matthew Molloy.

Raptor pilots are former F-15 pilots who have flown a two-seat version, the F-15E Strike Eagle, and also have ground attack experience. The F-16 Fighting Falcon is the Air Force's only other jet that flies both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions.

Eventually, the Air Force plans to take students straight out of pilot training into the Raptor program, Molloy said.

Critics say the Raptor is too expensive at a time when the U.S. already dominates the skies, and that it was designed for a high-tech enemy that no longer exists - the Soviet Union.

The Air Force puts the Raptor's price tag at $160 million per plane, but outside experts estimate they cost more than $350 million each when research and development expenses are added. So far, the Air Force has 56 Raptors, including training and test fighters, at Tyndall, Langley, Nellis and Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.

The current budget plans call for about 180 Raptors, but the Air Force wants more. Tyndall has the largest contingent at 23.

Military leaders say the plane will ensure American air dominance for years to come.

"In any air-to-air fight out there, it is a hopeless mismatch," Krumm said. "What we are more concerned with are countries that want to deny us air space by purchasing surface-to-air missiles and that kind of stuff. Those are very lethal to the way the U.S. deploys."

The Raptor is designed to be especially proficient at taking out such ground-launched missiles because of its speed and stealth. That's something military leaders say could be needed in a fight against potential enemies including Iran or North Korea.

"We want to kick the door down so the air space is clear for any (aircraft) you want to go in," Krumm said. "Someone could come in flying a Cessna 172 with a pistol if you wanted after we're done."

The Raptor's dogfighting capability adds a new dimension to the Air Force's fleet of stealth aircraft. Krumm compared the earlier F-117 Nighthawk and B-2 Spirit to cockroaches.

"They want to sneak in, drop their bombs, and sneak out again. They have absolutely no wish for a fight," he said. "They don't have air-to-air missiles, they cannot maneuver that well or anything else. Our airplane is entirely offensive. Not only am I stealthy, but I'll also hunt you down and kill you if you get in my way." And then there is the Raptor's super cruise capability that lets it fly at supersonic speed without using fuel-guzzling afterburners as required by other fighters. "That saves us a lot of gas and opens up a whole host of things when you start talking about dropping bombs," Krumm said.

"You can imagine if you are 60,000 feet doing mach 1.9 (about 1,400 mph) and these bombs are flying out of your airplane, the swath of hell you can produce going through a country saying 'I'll take that target, and that target'."

Twelve Raptors will head to Alaska in June for their first routine peacetime exercise deployment.

In the meantime, the instructors at Tyndall's 325th Fighter Wing will continue looking for the Air Force's top pilots to fly the world's best fighter jet.

"Langley rapidly needs pilots and we are trying to produce pilots to keep up with the production of the airplanes," Molloy said.

Krumm said one issue is that the plane is single-seater, which means only the most experienced fighter pilots, capable of flying such a high-tech plane solo, will be selected until the program becomes more routine. "When you strap on $160 million of taxpayer money, it's by yourself with me nervously flying alongside you going 'Please don't screw up, please don't screw up,'" Krumm said.


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afb; airforce; f22; f22araptor; iran; military; nellis; nevada; northkorea; raptor; tyndall; us; usaf; wot
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-114 next last

1 posted on 12/22/2005 2:06:59 AM PST by F14 Pilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Cobra64; Aeronaut

ping


2 posted on 12/22/2005 2:07:19 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot; Tijeras_Slim; FireTrack; Pukin Dog; citabria; B Knotts; kilowhskey; cyphergirl; ...

3 posted on 12/22/2005 2:12:39 AM PST by Aeronaut (It is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how the war began.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Aeronaut

In a word, "WOW!"


4 posted on 12/22/2005 2:16:21 AM PST by Pusterfuss (Proud member: Minnesotans for Global Warming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Aeronaut

http://www.f22fighter.com/movies.htm


5 posted on 12/22/2005 2:16:52 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]


6 posted on 12/22/2005 2:20:49 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot

Just wait untile the NY Times gets a hold of this.


7 posted on 12/22/2005 2:23:50 AM PST by DeaconRed (Merry Christmas to everyone- A SPECIAL Merry Christmas to our Brave Military)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pusterfuss
"You can imagine if you are 60,000 feet doing mach 1.9 (about 1,400 mph) and these bombs are flying out of your airplane, the swath of hell you can produce going through a country saying 'I'll take that target, and that target'."

Of course we all know that the point of having this capability is that it helps us avoid war!

8 posted on 12/22/2005 2:33:52 AM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit ("A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." - Dwight D. Eisenhower)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot
Pilots say new U.S. stealth fighter has no equal

Sure, no equal as far as what we know about. hehe!

9 posted on 12/22/2005 2:36:49 AM PST by ovrtaxt (The FAIRTAX. A powerplay for We The People.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Voter#537

I imagine the left will wet themselves in anguish over the inequality that our military produces.

It's mind boggling when they get upset when they're called un-American, yet they'll come right out and say that our military is too strong and overpowered compared to other countries. One of the more ridiculous arguments I've heard is them comparing our defense budget to that of other countries. They come right out and say that we should lower our military funding to match other countries, in effect to give other countries a better chance at fighting us.


10 posted on 12/22/2005 2:45:31 AM PST by kenth (Come back here... so that I may brain thee!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: kenth
"They come right out and say that we should lower our military funding to match other countries, in effect to give other countries a better chance at fighting us."

You Sir are preaching to the Choir.
Thank GOD they are not in charge.
I pray they never get back in charge.
IMHO No Country has ever been beaten because they are TOO STRONG.

11 posted on 12/22/2005 3:00:13 AM PST by DeaconRed (Merry Christmas to everyone A SPECIAL Merry Christmas to our Brave Military)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

It always feel good when your country is Number 1


12 posted on 12/22/2005 3:04:34 AM PST by Wiz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot

"You can imagine if you are 60,000 feet doing mach 1.9 (about 1,400 mph) and these bombs are flying out of your airplane, the swath of hell you can produce going through a country saying 'I'll take that target, and that target'."

I like the way they think.


13 posted on 12/22/2005 3:09:22 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot
Critics say the Raptor is too expensive at a time when the U.S. already dominates the skies, and that it was designed for a high-tech enemy that no longer exists - the Soviet Union.

Of course these critics are conveniently forgetting that China has upgraded it's best squadrons to the SU-27 and anything else they can get their hands on.

Photo courtesy of Jeff Head

You should all read this site. It's mind-numbing.

14 posted on 12/22/2005 3:09:23 AM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mad_as_he$$

Ping...


15 posted on 12/22/2005 3:19:04 AM PST by sasquatch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Voter#537
"They come right out and say that we should lower our military funding to match other countries, in effect to give other countries a better chance at fighting us."

As a Special Forces C130 pilot once told me, "If you ever find yourself in a 'fair' fight during war, you screwed up very badly."

16 posted on 12/22/2005 3:23:18 AM PST by AmericaUnited
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot
"The F-15 pilots, they are the world's best pilots," said Lt. Col. David Krumm, an F-22A instructor pilot. "When you take them flying against anyone else in the world, they are going to wipe the floor with them.

I do remember a few years back that Israeli pilots embarrassed US pilots during war games.

Anyone else remember that?

17 posted on 12/22/2005 3:23:39 AM PST by JohnG45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot
Military leaders say the plane will ensure American air dominance for years to come.

Or until the technology is stolen ... or bartered for a campaign contribution by the next Clinton in the White House.

18 posted on 12/22/2005 3:24:50 AM PST by sphinx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Caipirabob
You should all read this site. It's mind-numbing.

The Vayrag is not something to be taken lightly. Fully equiped it would approach a 65,000 ton displacement and embark 40-50 modern jet fighter and attack aircraft. As such, it would be the equal (it is in fact a newer design) to the Russian Kuznetzov and would be the largest carrier in the world outside of America's super-carriers.

In the event of hostilities, this CHICOM carrier would be sent to Davy Jones's Locker within minutes. The US has so many ways to 'implement that'. Don't 'numb your mind' needlessly...

19 posted on 12/22/2005 3:28:37 AM PST by AmericaUnited
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: JohnG45
I do remember a few years back that Israeli pilots embarrassed US pilots during war games.

And more recently wasn't it Indian Fulcrums against Eagles, and the results were... disappointing?

20 posted on 12/22/2005 3:50:00 AM PST by grobdriver (Let the embeds check the bodies!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: grobdriver

It was sure a wake up call for the U.S. Air Force when the Indian Air Force handed the Americans their hats in mock air battles. Expected when going up against the Israelis.


21 posted on 12/22/2005 4:02:21 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: JohnG45

The deal with the Israelis, I believe, was that they could make simple modifications to thier aircraft that would take mountains of paper work and red tape to accomplish in the US.

I seem to remember one of the Mods was a simple Mirror somewhere in the cockpit that gave them some advantage.

But I think what I am talkign about was 10+ years ago easy.


22 posted on 12/22/2005 4:12:57 AM PST by BookaT (My cat's breath smells like cat food!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot

Now ain't that a pretty picture.

23 posted on 12/22/2005 4:14:41 AM PST by burzum (Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.-Adm H Rickover)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Voter#537
Just wait untile the NY Times gets a hold of this.

< NYTIMES>Surely it is not fair that our aircraft are so much more capable than our adversaries'. There should be a program where US taxpayers build these planes in order to provide them to China, Iran and any other hostile nations, so we can mantain a stable balance of power. < /NYTIMES>

24 posted on 12/22/2005 4:28:14 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot

Too cool! Let's drive down the cost......buy 500!


25 posted on 12/22/2005 4:31:01 AM PST by Recon Dad (Proud Marine Dad)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher

You wrote: "the Indian Air Force handed the Americans their hats in mock air battles."

Not entirely true. The US went in without it's best equipment and with handicaps. Kind of like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Not that the indian pilots are bad its just that our technology trumps theirs, and in the event of a true battle they wouldn't stand a chance. Read More About it here. http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/007810.php


26 posted on 12/22/2005 4:34:15 AM PST by Frenetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: AmericaUnited

You should all read this site. It's mind-numbing.
The Vayrag is not something to be taken lightly. Fully equiped it would approach a 65,000 ton displacement and embark 40-50 modern jet fighter and attack aircraft. As such, it would be the equal (it is in fact a newer design) to the Russian Kuznetzov and would be the largest carrier in the world outside of America's super-carriers.

All these carriers can hadle are VSTOL type aircraft....no match for the aircraft deplyed on our carriers...can you spell "FLOATING TARGET?"


27 posted on 12/22/2005 4:38:01 AM PST by joe fonebone (Well, since there's no other place around the place, ah reckon this must be the place..ah reckon!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: BookaT; JohnG45
The deal with the Israelis, I believe, was that they could make simple modifications to thier aircraft that would take mountains of paper work and red tape to accomplish in the US. I seem to remember one of the Mods was a simple Mirror somewhere in the cockpit that gave them some advantage. But I think what I am talkign about was 10+ years ago easy.

You're right. It was rear-view mirrors mounted on each side of the cockpit bubble on their F-16s. Simple and effective.

28 posted on 12/22/2005 4:48:57 AM PST by tarheelswamprat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: joe fonebone

To win a war, you need to control the air, control the ground, control the roof-tops and control the sewers if needbe.

One thing about these air-superiority F-22s is that just a dozen or so over any country would cause that country to leave its airforce on the ground.

Like Iraq left its airforce on the tarmac in the war, just sitting there to be taken out, these F-22s will ensure that is the case in all wars for the foreseeable future.

Stealth, low heat signature, speed and missile-defence capabilities mean they can take out most surface to air missile systems while they are also leaving the enemies planes on the ground.

That is a very inexpensive option for air-superiority, a crucial component of winning any war. No matter the price-tag.


29 posted on 12/22/2005 4:51:39 AM PST by JustDoItAlways
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: burzum
Yes, but not as pretty as seeing them in real life...

I live across the water from Langley.

Saw one in a FCF (funtional Check Flight).. That is a bird of wonder, I saw it practically hover on the air at 2500 msl

What an awesom wonder. Wish I could have turned a wrench on her.

30 posted on 12/22/2005 5:03:43 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: tarheelswamprat; BookaT; JohnG45

I remember a Barney Miller episode where they were processing this drunk.

The drunk asks Miller: "Are you Jewish?"

Miller: "Yes"

Drunk: "You guys have one heck of an Air Force!"


31 posted on 12/22/2005 5:05:16 AM PST by cll (San Juan, PR, USA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot
Now that this is to be used as a F/A aircraft, we need to give them to Marine Corps pilots.

Air Farce pilots are good, but Marine pilots are just as good, AND...

have bigger balls.

32 posted on 12/22/2005 5:10:12 AM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JustDoItAlways

You are correct on all counts..... air superiority is where it is at!!!!!!!!!!


33 posted on 12/22/2005 5:15:51 AM PST by joe fonebone (Well, since there's no other place around the place, ah reckon this must be the place..ah reckon!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Frenetic

“Not entirely true. The US went in without it's best equipment and with handicaps. Kind of like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Not that the indian pilots are bad its just that our technology trumps theirs, and in the event of a true battle they wouldn't stand a chance. Read More About it here. http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/007810.php“

Yes, the F-16 is certainly not the best fighter out there so it losing a dogfight is not earth-shattering news.

Perhaps one lesson to be taken away is don’t go into a fight assuming you’re the best there is. You might get a nasty surprise.


34 posted on 12/22/2005 5:22:06 AM PST by FostersExport
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: DocH

THanks to Gen. Merril McPeak, there will only be one Military...


35 posted on 12/22/2005 5:22:31 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher

"It was sure a wake up call for the U.S. Air Force when the Indian Air Force handed the Americans their hats in mock air battles. Expected when going up against the Israelis."

The facts are simple. In the mock air battle against India, the US guys {by agreement} couldn't use their "look ahead" radar capabilities, which means the one thing that gives us the biggest advantage, the capability to know where they are before they find you, was given up. It's like fighting with a blindfold on. Even then, they didn't beat us, but made our "losses" too high. It proved {once again} that you should never get into a fair fight.

If the other nations are getting close in technology terms, and this new aircraft gives us a big jump, good on us.


36 posted on 12/22/2005 5:24:49 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages - In Honor of Standing Wolf)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: JustDoItAlways
air-superiority, a crucial component of winning any war

Not 'a' but 'the'. Sort of like no-tickie/no washie - no air superiority/no (military) win. The only fallback choice of the enemy is the support of our Left (eg Iraq).

37 posted on 12/22/2005 5:33:40 AM PST by lemura
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Frenetic

I figured we didn't use our superior equipment against the
Indian Air guys but I heard that all things being equal they did much better then expected and won with what they had. Was glad to hear they have come so far so as to maybe be able to blunt the chi-coms if necessary and the pakistanis if necessary.
Thanks.


38 posted on 12/22/2005 5:35:11 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: DocH

We need to lend a couple to the IDF so they can take out Persian-nuke capabilities, since we don't apparently have the stones...


39 posted on 12/22/2005 5:36:16 AM PST by Harrius Magnus (Joseph P. Kennedy thought that involuntarily lobotomizing a 23-year-old was good parenting technique)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: USS Alaska

Yep. We used equal equipment during this exercise and it showed flaws in our system.
While we enjoy superior equipment advantages we shouldn't rely solely on equipment.
This just went to show that other countries training is catching up.
This new jet should keep us far in the lead but too we need consistantly better taining methods and not get to high on our abilities.


40 posted on 12/22/2005 5:39:03 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: ovrtaxt

This sort of reminds me of the Germans' "Tiger Tank" and the Sherman M-4. The Germans had the best, bar none tank in the world..firepower, armor....that could cut a swath through the enemy easily....What they did not expect, though, was the NUMBER of Sherman M-4s that the US could produce, nor the number of T-39s that the Russians could produce. What they lacked in armor and firepower, they made up with speed and numbers, pure and simple.

The Raptor IS probably the best, but we don't have enough and can't afford what we'll need....


41 posted on 12/22/2005 5:42:15 AM PST by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: joe fonebone
All these carriers can hadle are VSTOL type aircraft....no match for the aircraft deplyed on our carriers...can you spell "FLOATING TARGET?"

Not Quite

Su-27K Beats anything but a F-22 Raptor or Eurofighter Typhoon.

A Superhornet isn't in the running.

True a Su-27 ramp takeoff is limited to 80% max gross weight, but that's plenty for air to air missions

42 posted on 12/22/2005 5:55:40 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: joe fonebone

Not VSTOL. The Chinese would operate a licenced produced Flanker variant from Varyag.


43 posted on 12/22/2005 6:00:12 AM PST by Tommyjo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher

I think that was the whole point in the excercise. India is not building it's air force to compete against us, so we didn't throw what we are trully capable at them. Rather, we simlulated the kind of adversaries they would be likely to face in a confrontation (ie Pakistan or some other "Stan").


44 posted on 12/22/2005 6:02:38 AM PST by Frenetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: burzum

That is $350 million well spent!!


45 posted on 12/22/2005 6:03:34 AM PST by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: kenth
"One of the more ridiculous arguments I've heard is them comparing our defense budget to that of other countries. They come right out and say that we should lower our military funding to match other countries, in effect to give other countries a better chance at fighting us."

These dopes never read or understand Sun Tzu.

Beat your opponent before even reaching a point of combat action.
46 posted on 12/22/2005 6:09:30 AM PST by roaddog727 (P=3/8 A. or, P=plenty...............)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: nonliberal
I was told that the F-22 has the same power as the entire starting grid of 3 NASCAR races. [still looking for an internet source to confirm this].
47 posted on 12/22/2005 6:19:20 AM PST by phil1750 (Love like you've never been hurt;Dance like nobody's watching;PRAY like it's your last prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher
It was sure a wake up call for the U.S. Air Force when the Indian Air Force handed the Americans their hats in mock air battles.

Joe, Cope India 2005 was an exercise designed for one purpose: To alay the Indian fears of newer F-16s in the hands of the Pakistanis.

Cope India 2005 pitted our F-16s against their Su-30s, and our F-16s were not permitted to use AIM-120 missiles. They could only use Sidewinders and guns, and could not use their in-cockpit data link to share radar information among the pilots. The U.S. was simulating Pakistani F-16s with Pak tactics and Pak equipment.

The fact that the Indians cleaned our clocks was a good thing.

48 posted on 12/22/2005 6:24:02 AM PST by Yo-Yo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: phil1750
The more I read about these things, the more I like them.

See tagline.

49 posted on 12/22/2005 6:26:11 AM PST by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: F14 Pilot

What is next after this great plane?


50 posted on 12/22/2005 6:28:09 AM PST by bmwcyle (Evolution is a myth -- Libertarians just won't evolve into Conservatives.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-114 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson