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“Thank you Jimmy Carter”--Carter Agrees With Bush Spying
The New York Times ^ | November 8, 1980 | Robert Pear

Posted on 12/23/2005 11:23:24 AM PST by SBD1

U.S.OFFICIALS DEFINE POLICY ON SEARCHES; Lawyers Assert President Still Has 'Inherent Authority' to Order Entries Without Warrants 'Concurrent Jurisdiction' 1978 Executive Order Cited No 'Foreign Connections' Found By ROBERT PEAR Special to The New York Times. New York Times (1857-Current file). New York, N.Y.: Nov 9, 1980. pg. 35, 1 pgs

WASHINGTON, Nov. 8--Justice Department lawyers say that the President still has the "inherent authority" to order searches without warrants to collect foreign intelligence within the United States, despite the criminal conviction this week of two former officials of the Federal Bureau of Investigation who said they had approved such searches in 1972 and 1973.

An executive order issued by President Carter in January 1978 established the standard that governs the use of searches for intelligence purposes today. Such searches, it said, ‘’shall not be undertaken against a United States person without a judicial warrant, unless the President has authorized the type of activity involved and the Attorney General has both approved the particular activity and determined that there is probable cause to believe that the United States person is an agent of a foreign power.'’

SBD

(Excerpt) Read more at pqasb.pqarchiver.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: carter; fisa; gwot; homelandsecurity; jimmycarter; nsa; patriotleak; spying; terrorism; thankyou; wot
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I never thought the words “Thank you Jimmy Carter” would come out of my mouth, but it just did!!

Due to rules that allow the New York Times to hide the truth, the only way to read the article is to pay for it through the NYT website.

SBD

1 posted on 12/23/2005 11:23:25 AM PST by SBD1
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To: SBD1

http://bugmenot.com/view.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com


2 posted on 12/23/2005 11:26:15 AM PST by jdm (I'm not blunting.)
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To: SBD1
If Jimmy said it, then it must be a Good Thing, and the MSM will flock to give him more air time, which will begin with "Yes, the President has this right, BUT--" and then Jimmy will blather on for ten minutes about how evil Bush is.

Everytime I think of Carter, I am reminded what an awful, awful president he was, and what a despicable friend of dictators and thugs he has been.

3 posted on 12/23/2005 11:29:18 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Warning: Adult language, but great Christmas message: http://foamy.libertech.net/noxmas.swf)
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To: SBD1

4 posted on 12/23/2005 11:31:41 AM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: SBD1

Interesting that this sort of article was published less than 100 hours before the 1980 Presidential election (also considering how recent the Iran hostage situation was at the time). NY Times trying to help get Peanut Farmer reelected, no doubt.


5 posted on 12/23/2005 11:35:24 AM PST by jdm (I'm not blunting.)
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To: Fenris6
Another media meltdown...

This company owns the L.A. Times:


6 posted on 12/23/2005 11:38:36 AM PST by jdm (I'm not blunting.)
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To: jdm

Both stocks have a price spike in September.

What happened then that made the stocks more desirable? dead cat bounce?


7 posted on 12/23/2005 11:45:48 AM PST by hattend (There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works.)
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To: SBD1
Some related articles:

Wiretaps for me, not thee?

Can Democratic presidents order wiretaps on U.S. soil without a court order, but not Republicans? We ask because that's the standard critics appear to be using against President Bush over National Security Agency surveillance of al Qaeda operatives. Every president, Democrat or Republican, has exercised this authority since the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act became law in October 1978. But it appears to be deemed problematical only for President Bush, whose wiretaps are said to have caught Iyman Faris, a naturalized U.S. citizen who wanted to bomb the Brooklyn Bridge.

The ink on FISA was barely dry when the first president to order extrajudicial surveillance -- a Democrat -- did so. Jimmy Carter exercised his authority on May 23, 1979 with Executive Order #12139, seven months after signing FISA into law, declaring that "the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order," subject to the section's requirements. The order cites a FISA section helpfully titled "Electronic Surveillance Authorization Without Court Order."

The precedent was even more firmly established by President Clinton. Top Clinton administration officials are on record defending the practice. As Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick testified before Congress in 1994: "The Department of Justice believes -- and the case law supports -- that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes and that the president may, as he has done, delegate this authority to the attorney general." She remarked that: "It's important to understand that the rules and methodology for criminal searches are inconsistent with the collection of foreign intelligence and would unduly frustrate the president in carrying out his foreign intelligence responsibilities."

====

FISA Court Discouraged Moussaoui Warrant

Unit 8 Investigation: Nuclear terror threat to Portland?

Bin Laden deputy aimed to kill Bush, Musharraf, officials say

THANK YOU FOR WIRETAPPING

8 posted on 12/23/2005 11:49:08 AM PST by FairOpinion (Merry Christmas!)
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To: hattend
oth stocks have a price spike in September. What happened then that made the stocks more desirable?

September is the largest month for wrapping fish, training puppies and other uses for newsprint.

9 posted on 12/23/2005 11:49:38 AM PST by rhombus
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To: SBD1
Yea, but Carter got fired when he was President.
10 posted on 12/23/2005 11:50:40 AM PST by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: SBD1

Did Jimmy Carter say this in the last few days, or is the NYT just getting around to acknowledging that it was he who started the practice?

I'm betting the latter. If Jimmeh makes a current statement, it will be to say that HIS domestic spying was lawful and warranted, and Bush's is somehow different and therefore illegal.


11 posted on 12/23/2005 11:54:12 AM PST by nina0113
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To: nina0113
Note the date of the article:

November 8, 1980

12 posted on 12/23/2005 11:57:47 AM PST by FairOpinion (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Fenris6

13 posted on 12/23/2005 11:58:40 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Link to Great TV ad re rat traitors and their words re Iraq: http://www.gop.com/Media/120905.wmv)
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To: SBD1

There is NOTHING to thank Jimmy Carter for.

He used the same powers, that's all.

He is NOT coming out and endorsing what President Bush is doing.


14 posted on 12/23/2005 11:59:01 AM PST by FairOpinion (Merry Christmas!)
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To: SBD1
he real poll on the lying news papers is the fall of their stock in the last year.

NYT = NY Slimes WPO = Washington Post TRB = Chicago Tribune and LA Slimes

15 posted on 12/23/2005 12:00:35 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Link to Great TV ad re rat traitors and their words re Iraq: http://www.gop.com/Media/120905.wmv)
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To: FairOpinion

I saw that, but thought it was part of a current article flashing-back to when a Democrat President began the practice. What in the WORLD was I thinking? This IS the New York Times, after all.


16 posted on 12/23/2005 12:00:48 PM PST by nina0113
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To: SBD1

After what commie carter did to this country...I'd never thank him for nothing.


17 posted on 12/23/2005 12:03:26 PM PST by shield (The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instructions.Pr 1:7)
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To: All

From 9/11 Commission Report, 2004

In July 1995, Attorney General Reno issued formal procedures aimed at managing information sharing between Justice Department prosecutors and the FBI. They were developed in a working group led by the Justice Department’s Executive Office of National Security, overseen by Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick. These procedures - while requiring the sharing of intelligence information with prosecutors - regulated the manner in which such information could be shared from the intelligence side of the house to the criminal side.

These procedures were almost immediately misunderstood and misapplied. As a result, there was far less information sharing and coordination between the FBI and the Criminal Division in practice than was allowed under the department’s procedures. Over time the procedures came to be referred to as “the wall. ” The term “the wall” is misleading, however, because several factors led to a series of barriers to information sharing that developed.

The Office of Intelligence Policy and Review became the sole gatekeeper for passing information to the Criminal Division. Though Attorney General Reno’s procedures did not include such a provision, the Office assumed the role anyway, arguing that its position reflected the concerns of Judge Royce Lamberth, then chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. The Office threatened that if it could not regulate the flow of information to criminal prosecutors, it would no longer present the FBI’s warrant requests to the FISA Court. The information flow withered.

SBD


18 posted on 12/23/2005 12:04:31 PM PST by SBD1
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To: SBD1
the only way to read the article is to pay for it through the NYT website.

. . . which no true conservative would ever do.

19 posted on 12/23/2005 12:11:00 PM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (Bush's #1 priority Africa. #2 priority appease Fox and Mexico . . . USA priority #64.)
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To: SBD1
"...and the Attorney General has both approved the particular activity and determined that there is probable cause to believe that the United States person is an agent of a foreign power.

Has such probable cause been claimed in this case? Earlier in the week, Bill Kristol and Gary Schmitt wrote a column defending the President's actions, and their defense specifically argued that the "probable cause" requirement is too stringent. An excerpt:

FISA requires the attorney general to convince the panel that there is "probable cause to believe" that the target of the surveillance is an agent of a foreign power or a terrorist. Yet where is the evidence to support such a finding? Who knows why the person seized in Pakistan was calling these people? Even terrorists make innocent calls and have relationships with folks who are not themselves terrorists.
Did Kristol and Schmitt misread the situation? Is there information out there that contradicts them on this?
20 posted on 12/23/2005 12:14:38 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: SBD1

Blind squirrel / nut


21 posted on 12/23/2005 12:16:34 PM PST by don-o (Don't be a Freeploader. Do the right thing. Become a Monthly Donor!)
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To: SBD1
Dear Jimmah,

When you atone for releasing this Islamic scourge upon the world, then we'll give you your proper thanks.

Evad

22 posted on 12/23/2005 12:17:14 PM PST by evad
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To: inquest
The ink on FISA was barely dry when the first president to order extrajudicial surveillance -- a Democrat -- did so. Jimmy Carter exercised his authority on May 23, 1979 with Executive Order #12139, seven months after signing FISA into law, declaring that "the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order," subject to the section's requirements. The order cites a FISA section helpfully titled "Electronic Surveillance Authorization Without Court Order."

The precedent was even more firmly established by President Clinton. Top Clinton administration officials are on record defending the practice. As Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick testified before Congress in 1994: "The Department of Justice believes -- and the case law supports -- that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes and that the president may, as he has done, delegate this authority to the attorney general." She remarked that: "It's important to understand that the rules and methodology for criminal searches are inconsistent with the collection of foreign intelligence and would unduly frustrate the president in carrying out his foreign intelligence responsibilities."

From: Wiretaps for me, not thee?

23 posted on 12/23/2005 12:19:24 PM PST by FairOpinion (Merry Christmas!)
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To: nina0113

Jimmy Carter would rather move to Cuban, than utter anything in support of President Bush.


24 posted on 12/23/2005 12:20:34 PM PST by FairOpinion (Merry Christmas!)
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To: SBD1

.....From 9/11 Commission Report, 2004

In July 1995, Attorney General Reno issued formal procedures aimed at managing information sharing between Justice Department prosecutors and the FBI. They were developed in a working group led by the Justice Department’s Executive Office of National Security, overseen by Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick.............

It's amazing how the ex- P-residue-nt, and her Thighness have been absent from the RAT rant on spying. At least they know that Bush is setting the trap, and just wants to herd all the RATS in a tight circle before springing!


25 posted on 12/23/2005 12:21:18 PM PST by aShepard
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To: evad

JIMMAH!!


26 posted on 12/23/2005 12:21:56 PM PST by Pimpmygop (Pimp my GOP Ride!)
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To: Grampa Dave

LOL. I like your chart better. thanks!


27 posted on 12/23/2005 12:24:05 PM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: Grampa Dave

ROTF......................................


28 posted on 12/23/2005 12:25:31 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Merry Christmas to all our troops at home and abroad!!)
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To: FairOpinion
That still doesn't answer the question about probable cause.
29 posted on 12/23/2005 12:27:24 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: Darkwolf377
Everytime I think of Carter, I am reminded what an awful, awful president he was, and what a despicable friend of dictators and thugs he has been.

His focus while POTUS was one which was to be held as a failure for his delegation capabilities were non existent.

Perhaps he didn't have a coven of friends in his cabinet of which he could depend on.

He sure has acquired friends world wide however who considered him appropriate to receive the "Nobel peace prize" to show him as relevant.

I'm in the mood for some peanuts augmented with beer after visiting this post.

My respect for Jimma' is showing again.... ; )

30 posted on 12/23/2005 12:29:32 PM PST by EGPWS
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To: SBD1
Its official: Jimmy Carter has done one thing as an ex-president that isn't contemptible. Thanks!

It should be fun to see how the MSM tries to spin this. Either it will be "It was legal but..." or they will just ignore the peanut farmer altogether.

31 posted on 12/23/2005 12:31:09 PM PST by Mad_as_heck (The MSM - America's (domestic) public enemy #1.)
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To: SBD1

>>>I never thought the words “Thank you Jimmy Carter” would come out of my mouth, but it just did!! <<<

He will deny he ever said it. Besides the MSM will never report this anyway.


32 posted on 12/23/2005 12:33:38 PM PST by PhilipFreneau ("The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. " - Psalms 14:1, 53:1)
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To: PhilipFreneau

I'd take it with a grain of salt. A broken clock is right at least twice a day.


33 posted on 12/23/2005 12:35:35 PM PST by IronChefSakai (Today's theme ingredient is... Budget Deficit! Allez Cuisine!)
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To: SBD1

Thank you Jimmy Carter


34 posted on 12/23/2005 12:42:23 PM PST by Cinnamon
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To: inquest

The points are:

1. FISA requirements for "probably cause" are MUCH less than for regular criminal searches.
2. FISA specifically has a section, which says you don't need to go through FISA, i.e. the President has the executive power to order the searches.


35 posted on 12/23/2005 12:42:38 PM PST by FairOpinion (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Darkwolf377
Everytime I think of Carter, I am reminded what an awful, awful president he was, and what a despicable friend of dictators and thugs he has been.

Not to mention what a crooked Commie he is.

36 posted on 12/23/2005 12:45:01 PM PST by penowa
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To: Darkwolf377

"If Jimmy said it, then it must be a Good Thing, and the MSM will flock to give him more air time, which will begin with "Yes, the President has this right, BUT--" and then Jimmy will blather on for ten minutes about how evil Bush is."

Sums it up nicely!


37 posted on 12/23/2005 12:47:04 PM PST by JZelle
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To: SBD1

An executive order issued by President Carter in January 1978 established the standard that governs the use of searches for intelligence purposes today. Such searches, it said, ‘’shall not be undertaken against a United States person without a judicial warrant, unless the President has authorized the type of activity involved and the Attorney General has both approved the particular activity and determined that there is probable cause to believe that the United States person is an agent of a foreign power.'’

I do NOT know which part of this the left doesn't get. Are they deliberately obtuse or just plain evil?


38 posted on 12/23/2005 12:47:09 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: SBD1
I never thought the words “Thank you Jimmy Carter” would come out of my mouth, but it just did!!

I've always thanked Jimmy Carter for fighting off that killer rabbit.

There's no telling how much death and devastation would have resulted if that rabbit had been allowed to rampage throughout the country.

39 posted on 12/23/2005 12:47:28 PM PST by Numbers Guy
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To: Grampa Dave

I love your charts. I can't wait until they flat-line and the layoffs come in bunches!!


40 posted on 12/23/2005 12:50:36 PM PST by lawnguy (Give me some of your tots!!!)
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To: FairOpinion

'He used the same powers, that's all. '

"He is NOT coming out and endorsing what President Bush is doing."


Exactly right. So why isn't he? Besides the obvious --he hates Bush----but how canhe get around this??

And, please excuse my ignorance, but in all this reading I have been doing on this it seems rather clear that no law was broken,
so can someone explain why such outrage? Not even just outrage, because the left is always outraged about something, but why even this much discussion?
If it is here right in front of us---what is up for debate?
What am I missing?


41 posted on 12/23/2005 12:52:04 PM PST by amutr22 (....not ANOTHER clinton!)
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To: nina0113

Article is dated 1980


42 posted on 12/23/2005 12:54:41 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: amutr22

The Dems don't need a reason to attack President Bush. When there aren't any justified reasons, they manufacture them, hoping that something will stick.

The Dems put their quest for power above truth, honesty, integrity, national security, the lives of the American people and even above the very existence of the US.


43 posted on 12/23/2005 12:56:31 PM PST by FairOpinion (Merry Christmas!)
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To: shield

"After what commie carter did to this country..."

commie carter did the bidding of David Rockefeller - one man from the west who had carte blanche at the Kremlin during the darkest days of the cold war, and probably still does have it.


44 posted on 12/23/2005 12:57:43 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: SBD1

Looks like a different title anyway.


45 posted on 12/23/2005 12:58:04 PM PST by BunnySlippers (Happy Festivus!)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
The Rockefellas' are a pack of DEVILS...
46 posted on 12/23/2005 1:01:08 PM PST by shield (The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instructions.Pr 1:7)
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To: FairOpinion
FISA specifically has a section, which says you don't need to go through FISA, i.e. the President has the executive power to order the searches.

That section applies only to non-"U.S. persons". For U.S. persons, some form of probable cause is required.

47 posted on 12/23/2005 1:03:09 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: lawnguy

Watch the layoffs that will be coming to these fish wraps and the Faux news divisions of ABCNNBCBS in the next few years.

When the left wing controlled/owned mutual funds stop buying and owning these enron type of stocks, their free fall will be awesome.


48 posted on 12/23/2005 1:05:19 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Link to Great TV ad re rat traitors and their words re Iraq: http://www.gop.com/Media/120905.wmv)
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To: SBD1
One can hear ol' horseface intoning that, "If GWB is allowed to have the authority to surveil US citizen contacts with our friends its opponents in foreign lands, the next JFK could end up like Aldrich Aimes, in jail for life with no chance of parole!"

HF

49 posted on 12/23/2005 1:05:24 PM PST by holden (holden on'a'na truth, de whole truth, 'n nuttin' but de truth)
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To: shield

"The Rockefellas' are a pack of DEVILS..."

I do not disagree - and I suggest there are few exceptions. They are offspring of the DEVIL!


50 posted on 12/23/2005 1:06:28 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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