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NYT: NSA Spying Broader Than Bush Admitted
Yahoo.Com ^ | 12/23/2005 | AP

Posted on 12/23/2005 9:44:00 PM PST by Bullitt

NEW YORK - The National Security Agency has conducted much broader surveillance of e-mails and phone calls — without court orders — than the Bush administration has acknowledged, The New York Times reported on its Web site.

The NSA, with help from American telecommunications companies, obtained access to streams of domestic and international communications, said the Times in the report late Friday, citing unidentified current and former government officials.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: benedictarnolds; carnivore; cialeaks; echelon; homelandsecurity; leaks; nsa; nyt; patriotleak
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The NY Times should be treated as an enemy.
1 posted on 12/23/2005 9:44:01 PM PST by Bullitt
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To: Bullitt

The New York Times is determined to expose our dastardly self-protection.


2 posted on 12/23/2005 9:45:38 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Peace Begins in the Womb)
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To: Bullitt
Why doesn't it occur to these a-holes that Bush isn't coming clean on these because it's a secret program?

Oh, wit--they KNOW it's a secret program.

Traitorous *&&^$%&!!!!

3 posted on 12/23/2005 9:46:03 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Warning: Adult language, but great Christmas message: http://foamy.libertech.net/noxmas.swf)
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To: Bullitt

While I'd like to post the "Not this (stuff) again" jpeg, I'll just sigh.


4 posted on 12/23/2005 9:48:03 PM PST by snakedriver
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To: Bullitt
NY Times are idiots. The US Government has had agreements with the telecom companies since the 1940s. If JoeUSA wants to have a "private conversation" there are ways to do it. You just can't use the telecom lines -- or at least don't use them conventionally.

You can get scramblers for phones and encryption software for email.

The "right" to a private phone conversation or email ends as soon as the transmission leaves your property. By using a telecom line, you are freely and knowingly transmitting beyond your private property. Now, set up a LAN and email your buddy in the other room or a phone switch and keep the calls on your personal PBX -- that is true privacy.

5 posted on 12/23/2005 9:50:16 PM PST by xrp (Conservative votes are to Republicans what 90% of black votes are to Democrats (taken for granted))
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To: Darkwolf377

GWB needs to find the leak in his administration and plug it with a Predator drone


6 posted on 12/23/2005 9:50:28 PM PST by Bullitt
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To: Bullitt
"Citing unidentified current and former government officials various and sundry traitors, terrorist sympathizers, anti W zealots, lawless and cynical leakers of top secret information."

I think that accurately stats the position of the NYT 'Sources'.

7 posted on 12/23/2005 9:51:22 PM PST by TCats
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To: snakedriver

Posting the picture has never been more necessary than with this latest NYT mud pie.


8 posted on 12/23/2005 9:52:21 PM PST by Crooked Constituent
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To: Bullitt
"Citing unidentified current and former government officials various and sundry traitors, terrorist sympathizers, anti W zealots, lawless and cynical leakers of top secret information."

I think that accurately states the position of the NYT 'Sources'.

9 posted on 12/23/2005 9:52:43 PM PST by TCats
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To: Bullitt

There is a War going on and it is not in Iraq!!!


10 posted on 12/23/2005 9:53:13 PM PST by tubebender (You can't make Chicken Soup from Chicken Poop...)
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To: ASA Vet; Grampa Dave; HiJinx; beyond the sea
XG ping

Meade vs NYT.....giving odds.
11 posted on 12/23/2005 9:55:23 PM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: Bullitt

"should be treated as an enemy"

Of the country, yes. Of Bush - heck no! Its clowns like the NY Times that tell the country that Bush is actually doing something while he's not on TV. They create an atmosphere that there's something going on! I want it stated quite plainly: Politically, I LOVE the NY Times. "Oh God, Bush is sniffing for radiation! Oh No!!!!" Oh yes, I say. He's "doing something". He's "after the bad guys". He didn't take a nap after launching a few cruise missiles. Thanks for shouting it to the world :) Keep on keepin' on.


12 posted on 12/23/2005 9:56:13 PM PST by mudblood
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To: Bullitt
...."citing unidentified current and former government officials."

Translation: they made it up.

13 posted on 12/23/2005 9:57:05 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: Bullitt

Bush's momentum was just starting to pick up. The polls were shifting on Iraq, Iraq had another sucessful election, and one day after the election, the NYT splashes leaked information in an effort to get Bush. And what was probably working in a quiet and effective way has been highlighted to the world and our enemies.

SURREAL.

This is mass suicide on the part of the old media (NYT) and patriot act flip flopping democrats.


14 posted on 12/23/2005 9:58:29 PM PST by Crooked Constituent
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To: Bullitt
This is a political propaganda offensive. It began the day after the successful Iraqi elections. It is designed to push the President's approval ratings back down and improve the chances of Democrats in the 2006 elections. It was scripted and coordinated in advance. These "revelations" of the New York Times are the chapters of James Risen's soon to be published book of which I believe 95 percent will be old, declassified information with 5 percent leaked information from someone in Congress or perhaps on the FISA court.
15 posted on 12/23/2005 9:58:41 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee (Anything a politician gives you he has first stolen from you)
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To: Bullitt
"NYT: NSA Spying Broader Than Bush Admitted"

Yeah, but you don't have the need to know. So SHADDAP!

16 posted on 12/23/2005 10:00:28 PM PST by Enterprise (Anytime liberals are in power, nobody's in charge.)
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To: Crooked Constituent

I dont think they are going to have time for suicide. They crossed the line and I hope no one lets them back.


17 posted on 12/23/2005 10:02:13 PM PST by Bullitt
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To: Bullitt

The RATs and their fellow travelers are digging their own graves on this one.

We all know that this is directed against muslim extremists, not against us. My feeling is that 95% of the non-muslims in the US support this kind of measure -- the Old Media and the RATs are diggin their own grave.

The day will come when the RATs have only muslims as their voting block.

W's approval ratings are going up. A few more revelations by the NY Times and he could hit 60% in the next month...


18 posted on 12/23/2005 10:06:02 PM PST by CurlyDave
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To: Bullitt
The once mighty NYT must be dying and is lashing out in it's death throes.

I think they are describing Carnivore which was around before Bush.

19 posted on 12/23/2005 10:06:32 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: Mike Darancette

Does anyone have that graph that shows the downward trend of NYT? I've seen it posted on other threads.


20 posted on 12/23/2005 10:10:20 PM PST by Crooked Constituent
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To: Crooked Constituent
and one day after the election, the NYT splashes leaked information in an effort to get Bush.

The RATS take a real risk in seeming to side with terrorists. If any plot is thwarted by these techniques while the RATS are whining they will look the fool.

21 posted on 12/23/2005 10:12:27 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: Mike Darancette

How many layoffs for the NYT this year? I remember a few.


22 posted on 12/23/2005 10:18:34 PM PST by Bullitt
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To: Bullitt
The NY Times should be treated as an enemy.

The NY Times IS the enemy.

23 posted on 12/23/2005 10:18:38 PM PST by CommandoFrank (Peer into the depths of hell and there you will find the face of Islam...)
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To: Mike Darancette

Echelon and Carnivor have been around for a while - wow - the NY Times, always on the ball.

Hint: If you can find something in Wiki, it ain't news....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_%28FBI%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON


24 posted on 12/23/2005 10:19:03 PM PST by pittsburgh gop guy (Be not afraid...)
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To: Bullitt
The NSA now has my family's secret Christmas cookie recipe! Oh, the inhumanity of it all...
25 posted on 12/23/2005 10:20:54 PM PST by DTogo (Merry CHRISTmas, and a healthy & happy New Year!)
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To: Texas Eagle
<>...citing unidentified current and former government officials each other."

Translation: they made it up.

I agree wholeheartedly!

26 posted on 12/23/2005 10:21:52 PM PST by smoothsailing (MERRY CHRISTMAS FREEPERS !!!)
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To: Bullitt

Dribble, dribble, dribble....when is the administration going to stop the leaking? Perhaps there is a method to their madness we aren't aware of?


27 posted on 12/23/2005 10:33:54 PM PST by TheDon (The Democratic Party is the party of TREASON!)
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To: Bullitt

28 posted on 12/23/2005 10:36:04 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Link to Great TV ad re rat traitors and their words re Iraq: http://www.gop.com/Media/120905.wmv)
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To: Bullitt
NEW YORK SLIMES personel


29 posted on 12/23/2005 10:38:02 PM PST by timestax
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To: xrp
"true privacy" on a private network?? Ha. You've never heard of TEMPEST.
30 posted on 12/23/2005 10:49:19 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Bullitt
The NY Times should be treated as an enemy.

As should all the MSM, Democrats, unions, Soros, etc. To treat them as simply others with differing opinions is to foolishly enable those who seek our destruction.

31 posted on 12/23/2005 10:55:24 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Bullitt

At some point the government can not allow the press to expose secrets to our enemies. I'm not sure what could be done seeing how we have a free press. But what are the limits? Could the NYT publish the nuclear launch codes and get away with it?


32 posted on 12/23/2005 11:02:40 PM PST by plain talk
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To: Grampa Dave
Great pic, Dave! I just stole it.
So what's that ....a value loss around 65%?
33 posted on 12/23/2005 11:15:46 PM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: Bullitt

If you don't have anything to hide, you don't have anything to fear.


34 posted on 12/23/2005 11:20:32 PM PST by Triggerhippie (Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. <<<Sarasmom is a F'n lunatic - Beware>>>)
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To: Triggerhippie

That post was not directed at anyone here. Just posting so that loonies like sarasmom, from her Prozac haze, don't accuse me of being bad.


35 posted on 12/23/2005 11:23:22 PM PST by Triggerhippie (Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. <<<Sarasmom is a F'n lunatic - Beware>>>)
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To: Bullitt

My God, when will this ever stop? ? ?


36 posted on 12/23/2005 11:27:03 PM PST by used2BDem (Navy Vet (Navy Mom))
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To: plain talk

Could they get away with it? We'd hang them. But I think they would try, yes. Two reminders for the NYT: Ethel and Julius. They better keep history in mind.


37 posted on 12/23/2005 11:28:03 PM PST by Bullitt
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To: Jeff Chandler

Absolutely!!!


38 posted on 12/23/2005 11:28:32 PM PST by used2BDem (Navy Vet (Navy Mom))
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To: Bullitt
GWB needs to find the leak in his administration and plug it with a Predator drone

I don't think the leaks are necessarily in the Bush Administration. It's probably a combination of retired (and disgruntled) former CIA types, and Democrat Congressmen, Senators and their staffs.

39 posted on 12/23/2005 11:39:41 PM PST by pawdoggie
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To: pawdoggie

True, though the NYT says they are current administration officials, doesnt make it accurate. My error.


40 posted on 12/23/2005 11:50:45 PM PST by Bullitt
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To: Bullitt

Always keep this in mind:

William Tecumseh Sherman

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."


41 posted on 12/24/2005 12:01:54 AM PST by Patriot Hooligan ("God have mercy on my enemies because I won't." General George S. Patton)
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To: Bullitt
The volume of information harvested from telecommunications data and voice networks, without court-approved warrants, is much larger than the White House has acknowledged, the paper said, quoting an unnamed official.

Maybe US spooks are planting these stories. "Hey terrorists, we've got little birds telling us all about you" whether we really do or not.

42 posted on 12/24/2005 12:05:50 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: Bullitt
In 2004 and 2005, Bush repeatedly argued that the controversial Patriot Act package of anti-terrorism laws safeguards civil liberties because US authorities still need a warrant to tap telephones in the United States.

"Any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order," he said on April 20, 2004 in Buffalo, New York.

"Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so," he added.

On April 19, 2004, Bush said the Patriot Act enabled law-enforcement officials to use "roving wiretaps," which are not fixed to a particular telephone, against terrorism, as they had been against organized crime.

"You see, what that meant is if you got a wiretap by court order -- and by the way, everything you hear about requires court order, requires there to be permission from a FISA court, for example," he said in Hershey, Pennsylvania.

"A couple of things that are very important for you to understand about the Patriot Act. First of all, any action that takes place by law enforcement requires a court order," he said July 14, 2004 in Fond Du Lac, Wisconsin.

"In other words, the government can't move on wiretaps or roving wiretaps without getting a court order," he said. "What the Patriot Act said is let's give our law enforcement the tools necessary, without abridging the Constitution of the United States, the tools necessary to defend America."

The president has also repeatedly said that the need to seek such warrants means "the judicial branch has a strong oversight role."

"Officers must meet strict standards to use any of these tools. And these standards are fully consistent with the Constitution of the United States," he added in remarks at the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy.

He made similar comments in Baltimore, Maryland, on July 20 2005.

Vice President Dick Cheney offered similar reassurances at a Patriot Act event in June 2004, saying that "all of the investigative tools" under the law "require the approval of a judge before they can be carried out."




The irony in this story is that The Executive branch of the government doesn't appear to trust our U.S. Secret Court with all the circumstances that it might run into while it secretly spies on American citizens.

In my entire life I never expected to be able to write the above sentence as a reflection of a reality of life in America.
43 posted on 12/24/2005 12:23:10 AM PST by KDD (A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse.)
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To: Patriot Hooligan

great quote!


44 posted on 12/24/2005 12:44:28 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: Bullitt

NYTimes Sedition Broader Than First Revealed


45 posted on 12/24/2005 12:52:48 AM PST by Hoodat ( Silly Dems)
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To: KDD

We have traitorus people among us in this country. Those that would sacrifice American lives to drown a sitting President. If we dont start charging people with treason, we will not be safe here in America. Start with the NY Times and work your way down to the ACLU. The enemy is there.


46 posted on 12/24/2005 3:17:10 AM PST by Bullitt
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To: Patriot Hooligan

Yeah that is a great qoute


47 posted on 12/24/2005 3:17:55 AM PST by Bullitt
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To: Bullitt

quote as well.


48 posted on 12/24/2005 3:18:36 AM PST by Bullitt
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To: Bullitt

To the contrary. I think that this story has doomed the Dims to minority status for at least another election cycle. "Bush bugged Bid Ladin" won't sell in Kansas.


49 posted on 12/24/2005 3:51:36 AM PST by rebel_yell2
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To: rebel_yell2

Then there was the Nuclear sniffing revelation yesterday.

What we have here is a conspiracy. This time it's not old retired spooks like the VIPs. Someone with an active clearance.


50 posted on 12/24/2005 4:03:15 AM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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