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The most corrupt Administration in US history??
none | now | me

Posted on 12/24/2005 8:25:27 PM PST by GodfearingTexan

Please forgive me, but I need some assistance. I had lunch recently with a close family member who insisted that President Bush is leading the most corrupt admin in history. I countered that it wasn't, that in fact Clinton had easily a more corrupt admin and had more people indicted than any other. He replied, no, that was Nixon. I honestly just don't have time to research all of this, and I know that there are people on here that either know the answer off the top of their heads or can tell me exactly where I can look it up.


TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: corruption; vanity
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To: GodfearingTexan
In these arguments with Libs it is best to first agree to the metrics you will use to make the judgement. Indictments is NOT the metric to be used since any partisan and unscrupulous prosecutor can bring an indictment (and we know which party has the corner on partisanship and unscrupulous behavior). I would focus on two metrics; convictions and consequences. In both cases Clinton "wins" hands down.
81 posted on 12/25/2005 7:53:33 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Restorer
I fail to see why you consider Jefferson's election corrupt

My comments were off-the-cuff and not quite right but the source was a History Book Club review of "The Failure of the Founding Fathers"

"...Jefferson and Burr tied, and havoc resulted. Ackerman tells this story with full attention to the multiple legal dimensions. One of the insanities of the 1787 Constitution is that electoral college deadlocks were to be broken on a one-state/one vote basis by the lame-duck Congress, which in this instance meant a Congress dominated by electorally-repudiated Federalists. Jefferson, who as Vice-President was also President of the Senate, had the task of counting the electoral votes, and Ackerman demonstrates that he played fast and loose with regard to Georgia's votes, which failed to meet the formal requirements set out by the Constitution. Had they not been counted, the House - meaning the lame-duck Federalists - would have been able to choose among the top five candidates instead of only Jefferson and Burr, who because of the Georgia votes, had gained a majority of the electoral votes. Moreover, at least some Federalists were tempted to pass a new succession-in-office act that would have resulted in John Marshall's becoming president if the House proved unable to break the tie. (In the event it took 26 votes before Federalist Rep. Bayard of Delaware in effect threw in the towel). One factor discouraging any such scheme was the threat of mobilization of state militias by Jeffersonian governors, who were fully prepared to march on the new capital in Washington should the Federalists try to steal the election."

The facts of the 1824 election are well-known

Here's an article on His Fraudulency.

And here's an article on His Fraudulency II, as his knowledgeable detractors refer to our current President.

82 posted on 12/25/2005 7:55:14 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry

Correction. 26 votes was a typo. It took 36 votes.


83 posted on 12/25/2005 8:08:10 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
Jefferson, who as Vice-President was also President of the Senate, had the task of counting the electoral votes, and Ackerman demonstrates that he played fast and loose with regard to Georgia's votes, which failed to meet the formal requirements set out by the Constitution.

I don't believe this is entirely correct. The Constitution calls for the President of the Senate to open the ballots, which are then counted, presumably by the entire Senate, not just by its President.

Do you know what the problem with Georgia's vote was? I've read quite a bit about this period and don't recall anything about this.

I would assume there would have been a huge outcry had the President of the Senate arbitrarily rejected the vote of a state because in his sole opinion it failed to meet the Constitution's requirements.

Interestingly, of the 16 states in the Union at the time, 11 chose their electors either partly or entirely by vote of the state legislature.

84 posted on 12/25/2005 8:18:13 AM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer
it's probably a tie between Grant and Harding.

Harding was going to be my answer as well. The Teapot Dome scandal was huge at the time. Though I think Harding had less to do with it than Wilson did. Harding had the misfortune of being in office when Fall leased the land to Mammoth.

85 posted on 12/25/2005 8:22:57 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.)
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To: middie
I would like to see you call Liddy contemptible to his face.

Your take on Nixon is not shared by many on the Right fortunately.
86 posted on 12/25/2005 8:33:58 AM PST by wardaddy (They took most of my Dixie heritage......they'll have to take Christmas from my cold dead hands)
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To: I. M. Trenchant

Post of the week...well done!

amazing how ignorant some here are.


87 posted on 12/25/2005 8:34:55 AM PST by wardaddy (They took most of my Dixie heritage......they'll have to take Christmas from my cold dead hands)
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To: GodfearingTexan; Alamo-Girl

[ I honestly just don't have time to research all of this, and I know that there are people on here that either know the answer off the top of their heads or can tell me exactly where I can look it up. ]

http://www.alamo-girl.com/ <- click HERE...


88 posted on 12/25/2005 8:37:33 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: GodfearingTexan
Try this link for a review of some of Clinton's follies

Clinton's Follies

89 posted on 12/25/2005 8:38:38 AM PST by khenrich (Hillary is changing her colors. She's a chameleon. No, she's a liberal.)
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To: GodfearingTexan

For starters, if this friend of yours is truly a liberal deep down to their toes, no matter what FACTS you throw at them, they will move the goalposts at the end of each conversation, neigh, at the end of each of your sentences, to continue to live in denial. No matter what you show or tell them, they will not believe you. You will not be able to reason with them, no matter what. They are incapable of rational thought. In other words, you're totally wasting your time, LOL!

But, if you want impeachment facts about Johnson, Nixon & Clinton, to use that as a measuring tool for corruption, click below. (And I agree; Nixon was a schmuck!)

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/index.html

Your friend also won't believe this, but President Bush will go down in history as one of our best leaders, ever. There's so much mud slung when someone's in office, you really do need the leveling of historical perspective to know what's true in the long run. ;)


90 posted on 12/25/2005 8:42:02 AM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: GodfearingTexan

Good Thread!


91 posted on 12/25/2005 9:17:10 AM PST by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
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To: Restorer
Do you know what the problem with Georgia's vote was?

Here's the Wikipedia take. Ackerman appararently thinks Jefferson was a little more devious but I haven't read the book.

In any case, "corrupt" is probably the wrong word to describe the situation.

92 posted on 12/25/2005 9:30:51 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry

It looks more to me like Jeff refused to allow a technicality to disrupt the country and thwart the will of the people.

I certainly wouldn't call that corrupt.


93 posted on 12/25/2005 9:40:22 AM PST by Restorer
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To: DougSc

Simply smoking work. Cheers to DougSC.


94 posted on 12/25/2005 9:40:59 AM PST by alrea
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To: DougSc

Simply smoking work. Cheers to DougSC.


95 posted on 12/25/2005 9:41:00 AM PST by alrea
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To: Restorer
It looks more to me like Jeff refused to allow a technicality to disrupt the country and thwart the will of the people. I certainly wouldn't call that corrupt.

Nor would I.

But what you dismiss as a technicality others would call the fundamental law of the land. And...is the "will of the people" expressed by counting the popular or the electoral college vote? By the popular vote or by the Congress acting in accord with Consitutional mandate?

96 posted on 12/25/2005 10:06:27 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: GodfearingTexan
Just tell him to choke on three more years of Bush. Oh, and that Clinton pardon terrorists.
97 posted on 12/25/2005 10:12:51 AM PST by CaptainK
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To: GodfearingTexan

post #3 nails it. There's no point.


98 posted on 12/25/2005 10:13:59 AM PST by Scarchin (www.classdismissedblog.com.)
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To: liberallarry

Since 11 of the 16 states in 1800 chose their electors by vote of the state legislature rather than of the people, there wasn't really a "popular vote" of the people in that year.

I cannot imagine that the Founders meant the clear intent of a state's vote to be voided because of a minor paperwork error. It wasn't like there were two sets of electoral votes that needed to be chosen between as in some later elections.


99 posted on 12/25/2005 10:16:20 AM PST by Restorer
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To: GodfearingTexan

Certainly not the most corrupt.

However, there are 3 more years to go...............


100 posted on 12/25/2005 10:24:56 AM PST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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