Posted on 12/28/2005 10:48:42 AM PST by infoguy
Well just heck. God granted none of us power through prayer. I may as well not even bother praying anymore. Tell me, can I still read my Bible or do I need to have someone do that for me as well? Of course my Bible, and everyone else's for that matter, tell us God wants a personal relationship with each and every one of us. Guess all those promises of the Holy Spirit and Christ's personal relationship are just bunk then. Right...
So tell me, since I should just let priests speak for me to God (sort of tosses the whole torn veil message out the window though) should I follow the words the ones that molest children or just the ones that are dug up to be put on trial? Mind you Protestants have had sex scandals involving children in the past but for the most part those people are run out of leadership positions on a rail. Can't say as I've ever heard of someone being dug up for trial though.. And you worry about a female being pope around that same time?!? I tell you, I learned more than I ever wanted to know about the Catholic Church last night. Was this pope Joan real? I don't know. But compared to some of the other history of the time, I'd be putting that decision up on a pedastal as some forward thinking instead of condemning it.
Matthew 7:24-25
"Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock."
And then later in Ephesians 2 there is no special mention of Peter.
"built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone"
Other than the keys, Matthew 16 is flimsy at best to support Jesus proclaiming Peter as the unique foundation of the Church because it is never repeated and soundly rejects elsewhere.
They keys do give me pause, but I've never had to understand every word in the Bible to understand the basics. Saved by grace, through faith, for works.
I watched it too. It was interesting and your are right that it could have been done in 30 minutes. I think they missed the part that protestants promoted the myth to attack the catholic church.
As a Christian, I'd have to say that I'm less inclined to beleive the myth after seeing the show. However, talk of the Catholic Church's secret rooms and their ability to rewrite history leaves a slightly negative view of the church.
I think the show was really about the plight of women in earlier times more than about Pope Joan.
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
If one is to believe the Bible, Peter's mission was to minister to the Jews, and Paul's calling was to minister to the Gentiles...And neither Paul, nor any of the Apostles looked upon Peter as the head of any church...The head of the church was/is Jesus Christ...
How could anyone get that wrong???
The misguidance in that approach is to deny that it is Christ who teaches, that it is Christianity that leads. You separate the body of Christ itself into "Peter" and "Paul" and "Gentiles" and "Jews" of the Apostle's time.
They simply had different work and preached and serviced different areas but Peter as Apostle certainly did lay claim to a moral superiority to Paul and for obvious reasons. Even Paul didn't argue with that, nor had motive to.
These issues have been lectured on and discussed by very enlightened persons over a lot of time and I've yet to ever hear anyone of substance conclude that Peter was not in some special assignment, with particular responsibility to Christ, with Christ.
Jesus seems to be pretty clear to my view in what He said, what He wanted and still does. I think He'd have been very clear and plain if He'd had some sort of "church" in mind that was there for the Gentiles with Paul, and another one over there for whomever without leadership but just by reading and another one for...
1 Corinthians 3
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.
7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.
1 Corinthians 1
12 What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
MillerCreek wrote: I've yet to ever hear anyone of substance conclude that Peter was not in some special assignment, with particular responsibility to Christ, with Christ.
What a vague and meaningless statement. Peter was an apostle. That qualifies as a special assignment.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here...
Yes, Peter was an Apostle and had/has "special assignment" from and by Christ.
Exactly! Same thing I've been writing here for several days so thanks for finally agreeing with me.
You have not read anything I've written here, obviously, except to misread the last comment.
I think the thread's degenerated into nonsense. It seems that there are some people whose motives are to bash the Catholic Church and by that motive, reveal themselves with very little else to offer.
To summarize, and as to the thread issue long before people began tearing Saint Peter apart: there was no "Pope Joan" and so, good day.
I think you are right, there was no Pope Joan. Interesting that Popes in the 1100's didn't outright reject it though.
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