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Scholars fight arms flow, violent culture
Toronto Star ^ | 31 Dec 05

Posted on 12/31/2005 7:35:10 AM PST by rellimpank

Canada needs tough gun control laws, says a Toronto expert, but lawmakers are up against a global arms "epidemic" that has circulated millions of weapons around the world, destabilizing countries and undermining cities.

And, says Wendy Cukier, professor of criminal justice at Ryerson University, the latest Toronto police figures — obtained through a Freedom of Information request — show that 52 per cent of handguns seized as "potential crime weapons" in 2004 came from the United States.

"The majority of those guns come from over the border," she says. "And the ones that are reported as legally registered in Canada may also be manufactured in the U.S."

(Excerpt) Read more at thestar.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: banglist; canada; crime; guncontrol
---complete fantasy and misinformation---
1 posted on 12/31/2005 7:35:11 AM PST by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank

Cool! Then how about tightening border security?


2 posted on 12/31/2005 7:36:45 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: rellimpank
The right to personal self-defense is a more fundamental human right than all the others. It is amazing the blind-spot that Lib's have in their muddled heads.
3 posted on 12/31/2005 7:37:50 AM PST by keithtoo (Leftists/Democrats - Traitors, Haters and Vacillators)
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To: rellimpank
This thread has just added to the FreeRepublic "bang list" (firearms interest list) by adding the keyword "banglist".

Any time a firearms-related thread is created on FreeRepublic, please be sure to add the "banglist" keyword to it so that interested FReepers don't miss it.

Let Freedom Ring,

Gun Facts v4.0!

Click the pic to go to the Gun Facts v4.0 download page!

4 posted on 12/31/2005 7:40:08 AM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: rellimpank

Canadian Liberals are so obessed with the evil United States that they can't see what's happening right in front of their eyes.


5 posted on 12/31/2005 7:40:20 AM PST by RedRover
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To: rellimpank

Oh my God...a global arms epidemic! And there is no vaccine! Each one of these evil guns gives its owner power over authority!!!


6 posted on 12/31/2005 7:41:11 AM PST by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: rellimpank
Believing what these scholars say is what got them into the fix they find themselves in now.

A dose of common sense would do wonders for poor old Canada.
7 posted on 12/31/2005 7:43:27 AM PST by Ninian Dryhope ("Bush lied, people dyed. Their fingers." The inestimable Mark Steyn)
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To: rellimpank

"potential crime weapons"

What to he!! is a "potential crime weapons"? A sharpened pencil could be a potential crime weapons.

Also, more than 52% of everything in Canada comes from the US.


8 posted on 12/31/2005 7:45:38 AM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: rellimpank
The Liberals in Canada are so totally bereft of ideas they can't think of anything to do other than to disarm the natives in the face of gunfire mounted by the immigrants.

I think they went through this one before ~ it's called the "Meti War" in the history books. Somebody decided to send in the Mounties to disarm the non-tribal, mixed race people in the Western provinces.

Didn't solve a thing.

Killed a bunch though.

(NOTE: That probably shortens the history of that particularly unpleasant period a bit too much, but after all, I'm simply an "ignrnt'" 'Murican eh?!)

9 posted on 12/31/2005 7:46:38 AM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: rellimpank

Scholars should know that historically speaking scholars fair poorley when confronting armed groups of people unless their own people are also armed.


10 posted on 12/31/2005 7:47:42 AM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: rellimpank
And the ones that are reported as legally registered in Canada may also be manufactured in the U.S."

Quite likely they are, given the garbage that ParaOrdinance has been putting out lately. I just shot a .45 Warthog and it only reconfirmed my opinion that their guns are junk.

11 posted on 12/31/2005 7:50:10 AM PST by FateAmenableToChange
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To: rellimpank
"Wendy Cukier, professor of criminal justice at Ryerson University says: The majority of those guns come from over the border"

First You do not know that to be a fact. But as all left-wing hate America types you want to spread lies about our country. If they come from south of your border then you have very poor border control, which reminds me how about keeping your terrorist north of the border so they will not harm us (US). If you would allow your citizens to protect themselves then your crime rate would go down. It has happened in every state in the US that allows right to carry. In Canada the only people that can have weapons are the criminals.

Close the border.
12 posted on 12/31/2005 7:51:27 AM PST by YOUGOTIT
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To: rellimpank
Ah, yes, blame the guns, the inanimate objects. Let's not hold the criminals accountable for their behavior--that would violate their civil liberties. Besides, I'm sure they all had horrible, economically disadvantaged childhoods--incarcerating them would represent a lack of social justice.

Anyone ready to throw up yet? Although I'm begin sarcastic, some morons on the Left, who have placed their already atrophied reasoning abilities on permanent standby, believe this nonsense with all their hearts.

Now is anyone ready to throw up?

13 posted on 12/31/2005 7:51:38 AM PST by Uncle Vlad
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To: RedRover
?...Canada needs tough gun control laws, says a Toronto expert, but lawmakers are up against a global arms "epidemic" that has circulated millions of weapons around the world, destabilizing countries and undermining cities?......

?...Secret Islamic Canadian Arms "Epidemic".....?

nonsense........Saudia Arabia would never allow any such thing?

14 posted on 12/31/2005 7:58:45 AM PST by maestro
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To: rellimpank
However, it would be wrong to assume that the majority of Americans support unfettered gun use, says Zach Ragbourn of the Washington-based Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "The thing to note is that when the public isn't aware of what's happening, gun laws are loosened. It's an education issue. When the laws are fully discussed and debated, you end up with sensible laws," he said.

A psychiatrist, some of whose work I once read said, "Neurotics build castles in the sky; psychotics live in them." With this remark, the tragically ill Mr. Ragborn shows he's just built his very own castle in the sky and moved into it. Of course, I could agree that we have ended up with many highly sensible gun laws, i.e., expiration of the hideous AWB and shall issue CCW in 37 states, after the heroic work of the NRA and all other RTKBA supporters.

15 posted on 12/31/2005 8:05:13 AM PST by libstripper
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To: rellimpank
The Canucks have been pressing this gun ban stuff real hard down here for a few days now. Obviously this is an attempt to change the subject from the crash and burn of the Liberal party up there.

It's no different than the middle eastern countries who justify lousy everything because America is Satan. I don't think the Canucks will get away with it here.

16 posted on 12/31/2005 8:08:43 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: Sender
Oh my God...a global arms epidemic! And there is no vaccine! Each one of these evil guns gives its owner power over authority!!!

We should be looking for a "magic bullet"!

17 posted on 12/31/2005 8:08:51 AM PST by Fido969 ("And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).)
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To: rellimpank
And, says Wendy Cukier, professor of criminal justice at Ryerson University, the latest Toronto police figures — obtained through a Freedom of Information request — show that 52 per cent of handguns seized as "potential crime weapons" in 2004 came from the United States.

Where did the other 48% come from?

And what is a "potential crime weapon"?

18 posted on 12/31/2005 8:08:55 AM PST by Logophile
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To: rellimpank
I am pretty sure this is a co-ordinated effort among the libs right now - see my post on the other thread:

This excuse is the coordinated effort of the lefties now - all of a sudden the growing crime problems in their area are caused by gun laws in OTHER jurisdictions...

This week we had the Boston PD blame their rising crime on gun laws in New Hampshire and Maine. This is a trial balloon to see if the media will run with this absurd idea. If it gets traction then we can eext expect lawsuits from the blue cities against the states with decent gun laws.

We are right to go after this aggressively - Throw their own failures right back at them...

19 posted on 12/31/2005 8:10:49 AM PST by Fido969 ("And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).)
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To: rellimpank

I notice that this yahoo completly omitted the fact that canada openly imports firearms from China


20 posted on 12/31/2005 8:28:16 AM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: rellimpank
"Wendy Cukier, professor of criminal justice at Ryerson University"

Totally and irrevocably intellectually bankrupt. More gun control, yeah that's the ticket. This is nothing but an attempt to draw the heat off the idiot liberal officials. They'll use this to continue selling their hopeless gun registration scheme with an added host of other draconian anti-gun proposals.
21 posted on 12/31/2005 8:32:08 AM PST by headstamp (Nothing lasts forever, Unless it does.)
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To: rellimpank
Here is what is legally being imported in Canada
22 posted on 12/31/2005 8:32:27 AM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: rellimpank
Now, let's see, Professor Cokier, Canada has no gun manufacturers. Guns are a precise product which require machine tools of some sophistication to manufacture. Therefore, most of the guns will come from other countries. And since the US is the major trading partner for Canada on ALL goods, logically it is the same for guns.

The questions to research, you nitwit, are three. Who is bringing these guns into Canada, Canadians or Americans? And who are the people pulling the trigger on gun crimes in Canada, Canadians or Americans? Last, and most important, has the gun ban and registry in Canada reduced gun ownership and use among criminals in any degree similar to reduction among normal, law-abiding citizens?

Those answers will lead to this conclusion, disarm the law-abiding and the criminals will become more active and more deadly. Hell, look at the destruction of the Canadian military for an example. Disarm yourself, and either others will have to defend you -- or no one will defend you. It is a very simple and inexorable equation.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "Football, Warfare, and Public Policy"

23 posted on 12/31/2005 8:45:01 AM PST by Congressman Billybob (The New Year has arrived for our friends in Australia. The best of wishes for all Freepers.)
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To: rellimpank

How odd! There was not one mention of the fact that Toronto's gun related killings are almost entirely as a result of Jamaican gang activity. Also not mentioned is that these gangs are the Jamaicans that Canadian liberals imported and have kept dependent on government handouts in order to expand the Canadian liberal voting constituency.


24 posted on 12/31/2005 8:48:11 AM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: rellimpank
"The majority of those guns come from over the border," she says. "And the ones that are reported as legally registered in Canada may also be manufactured in the U.S."

...so a hood is a hood no matter where he gets a gun. and it don't matter if the "majority" of guns used in a CRIME came from Bermuda...????...Next this bunch of "Scholars" will be pointing out if the criminal fired the weapon to the north he must have gotten the weapon from the US,and if he fires to the south,it's a clear indication it was purchased or stolen from Alaska

Doogle

25 posted on 12/31/2005 8:48:45 AM PST by Doogle (USAF...8thAF...4077th TFW...408th MMS...Ubon Thailand..."69"..Night Line Delivery,AMMO)
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To: rellimpank
the latest Toronto police figures — obtained through a Freedom of Information request — show that 52 per cent of handguns seized as "potential crime weapons" in 2004 came from the United States.

Let me know when they start rounding up potential prostitutes, potential wife beaters, and potential drunk drivers. Then I'll know they're serious about crime.

26 posted on 12/31/2005 8:51:52 AM PST by Steel Wolf (If the Founders had wanted the President to be spying on our phone calls, they would have said so!)
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To: rellimpank
"52 people have died from gunfire in the city this year. It's a far lower total than the more than 1,400 killed in New York"

...and so the Canadian MSM gets on the wagon of false and misleading information. If you scoot over to today's New York Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/31/nyregion/31crime.html?hp&ex=1136091600&en=10df13f49ff8773a&ei=5094&partner=homepage

...you will see that New York will likely come in at under 550 total murders this year, nothing like 1400, which is probably a very old number (to be comparing apples to apples, one would also have to add people killed in gun accidents to New York's number, but then one would also have to exclude people murdered without the use of guns, which is probably a larger number).

It also needs to be noted that New York is over 3 times as populous as Toronto, and would be expected to have higher crime numbers, even if all other things were equal. When you use the correct numbers, adjusted for population, New York is still several times higher than Canada, but the trend lines have been clearly converging over the past 10 years.

The bottom line is that, with the infusion of, how do you say, people of other cultures, Canada's violent crime rate is starting to soar, and they can try as hard as they want to blame us, but we're too busy getting our house in order down here (certainly in New York) to be concerned with their ranting.
27 posted on 12/31/2005 8:58:29 AM PST by MediaAnalyst
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To: MediaAnalyst

"...you will see that New York will likely come in at under 550 total murders this year, nothing like 1400,"

Probably only 50% of those 550 were killed by gun and 65-70% of that by handguns. Corrected for population between the 2 cities and the differences are not as great as they think.


28 posted on 12/31/2005 9:12:17 AM PST by BadAndy (The DemocRATs are the enemy's most effective weapon.)
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To: rellimpank
"Wendy Cukier,"

Appropriate name considering the subject.
29 posted on 12/31/2005 9:17:20 AM PST by yer gonna put yer eye out (For liberals, using large words is an acceptable substitute for logic...)
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To: keithtoo
They can't figure out that the global problem is the collapse of civilization in general and western civilization in particular.

The hard fact is: The bad guys will kill you one way or another. Take away your guns and you will be hacked to death with machetes -- count on it.
30 posted on 12/31/2005 9:19:28 AM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: rellimpank
From the article:

and since a series of laws were tightened, murders with rifles and shotguns have plummeted from 131 in 1989 to 32 in 2003.

Interesting statement since the article was almost entirely concerned about handguns, and yet slipped in unnoticed was this statement that murders with rifles and shotguns fell.

31 posted on 12/31/2005 9:38:04 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (What? Me worry?)
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To: keithtoo

They couldn't be libs without that blind spot.


32 posted on 12/31/2005 9:55:12 AM PST by chesley (Liberals...what's not to loathe?)
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To: rellimpank
"potential crime weapons"

Eric Blair would be proud.

33 posted on 12/31/2005 9:56:29 AM PST by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: rellimpank
"potential crime weapons"

Eric Blair would be proud.

Funny things happen when you mistype HREF.

34 posted on 12/31/2005 9:57:17 AM PST by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: rellimpank

Canadian anti-gunners are so stupid...that's why they pronounce it CanaDUH!


35 posted on 12/31/2005 4:23:18 PM PST by 2harddrive (...House a TOTAL Loss.....)
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To: rellimpank

Obviously, we should begin dating things before and after the advent of the gun. Which was yesterday, based on this article.


36 posted on 12/31/2005 4:38:28 PM PST by Simo Hayha (An education is incomplete without instruction in the use of arms to protect oneself from harm.)
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