Posted on 01/02/2006 12:46:30 AM PST by presidio9
Edited on 01/02/2006 12:58:14 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
A Catholic saint and martyr has been nominated as one of the nastiest villains in British history.
St. Thomas Becket, a 12th-century archbishop of Canterbury, was among 10 "worst Britons" of the last millennium, selected by a group of British historians. The saint, whose feast is celebrated Dec. 29, was chosen by John Hudson, a professor at the University of St. Andrews, Scotland, because he divided England in a way that was "unnecessary and self-indulgent."
"He was a founder of gesture politics with the most acute of eyes for what would now be called the photo opportunity," said Hudson, a specialist in early medieval English and French history.
"He was also greedy," he said in BBC History magazine Dec. 27. "Those who share my prejudice against Becket may consider his assassination in Canterbury Cathedral Dec. 29, 1170, a fittingly grisly end."
BBC History magazine compiled the list after asking 10 historians to name their pick for "worst Briton."
St. Thomas was hacked to death by four knights who allegedly heard King Henry II of England ask, "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?"
His death ended a protracted dispute with the monarchy over the limits of civil law in the life of the church. The king, for example, wanted to stop bishops from leaving England without his permission, to stop them from appealing to Rome without his consent and to punish criminal clerics under the civil law even if they had been dealt with by church courts. St. Thomas spent six years in exile but was murdered within a month of returning to England. He was canonized two years later.
Father Nicholas Schofield, the archivist of the Archdiocese of Westminster and a history graduate from Oxford University, said he was surprised that St. Thomas was included on the list.
"It's always misrepresentative to see history simply in terms of goodies and baddies," he told Catholic News Service Dec. 29. "Like all of us, Thomas Becket had his weaknesses. He could be proud and bad-tempered and, especially in his early years, he lived a life of great luxury.
"But on becoming archbishop of Canterbury he changed his way of life, showed exemplary piety and gave his life for the defense and liberty of the church. Because of this he became the patron of English clergy," the priest said. "In an age of such bloodshed and low esteem for human life, I would have thought there were many more convincing candidates for Britain's worst 12th-century villain."
David Musgrove, editor of the magazine, told BBC News Dec. 27 that deciding on the worst Britons was "not an easy choice."
"We left the criteria up to the 10 historians we spoke to, and it's their definitions of wickedness that give us such a diverse selection of figures on our list of evilness," he said.
The list of villains, which is made up of one from each century, included another Catholic archbishop of Canterbury, Archbishop Thomas Arundel, who in the 15th century persecuted Catholic heretics.
It also included Titus Oates, a former Anglican minister who made up a story about a Jesuit-led plot to kill King Charles II, which, from 1678 to 1680, led to the deaths of 26 innocent Catholics.
Oates was nominated by John Adamson, a fellow of Peterhouse College, Cambridge University, because he "was in a league of his own, in the depths of his vileness and the scale of his evil."
The list also included Richard Rich, an ambitious lawyer who in the 16th century gave evidence against St. Thomas More and St. John Fisher, which led to their convictions and executions for treason.
It includes Jack the Ripper, the serial killer who preyed on prostitutes in London; King John, who is remembered from the 13th century as " clearly one of the worst kings in English history"; and the Duke of Cumberland, the younger brother of King George II who became known as "the Butcher" after putting down the Catholic Jacobite rebellion of in the 18th century with the massacre at Culloden Moor, Scotland.
Oswald Mosley was named the worst Briton of the 20th century. He was the founder of the British Union of Fascists. Eadric Streona, who betrayed King Aethelred to the Danes, was named as the worst Briton of the 11th century.
The worst of the 14th century was named as Hugh Despenser, who grew rich by grabbing land in South Wales and ruthlessly slaughtering his enemies.
That is up for each state to decide.
<< ... 'fascissocialistic offshore satellite state' (do you have that phrase permenently on your clipboard ready for pasting by the way?) >>
Nope. It's not a phrase.
It's some islands of little consequence in the grander scheme of things.
You'll find them off the coast of the Eurabian Neo-Soviet.
Passed through there just the other day, actually, [LHR] on the way from and to a few actually important places, so can vouch it's still there.
Be nice to believe it was just a phrase though.
For the relief from reality it must provide.
In fact, I must try that some time.
Probably as I slip into dementia and just before the nice lady comes out on the verandah to change me diaper.
'Spect it'll make me come over all homesick like for Rick Stein's fish and chip shop at Padstein, though.
Happy New Year - B A
<]:^)~<
I'm curious where your definition of "Saint" came from. Is it the capital "S" that makes the difference? Because if you're speaking Biblically, a saint is someone who is saved. The word saint is used 82 times in the Bible and not once in the way you define it.
Many of the books of the New Testament are written to the saints who are alive and well. (Or at least they were at the time of the writing...)
I reckon I had better lie doggo after this one.
I don't really think she's particularly malign, I just want to see some pictures...
No, I meant boustrohodontically, because it is obvious you are going back and forth and chewing this one over too much.
You'll have to forgive me. My first post was an attempt at humor. I'm tired of people changing the Bible and even contradicting the Bible and yet proclaiming authority. I guess my humor needs work...
Well. the saints described in Revelations were definitely very dead. There are holy people who are still on earth;there are those who have died.
BBC is evil. I nominate everyone who works there as the worst human beings on the planet.
Let's see...uh...no Kim Philby, Cromwell, Henry VIII, Aleister Crowley, or Bertrand Russell on that list? What about Tim Curry's performance in The Rocky Horror Picture Show? That should have received some mention. They must be fluoridating the water at the universities again.
As a Catholic, I believe in the Communion of Saints. We're all in on it. It is a very comforting belief.
Here's some of the history and theology behind it:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04171a.htm
He was knighted. In the autobiography of the mathematical physicist Freeman Dyson, he talks about how he did statistical work for Bomber Command during WWII. It was discovered that a lot of British airmen were losing their lives because the escape hatch from their planes was not quite large enough to accomodate a man who was wearing a parachute. Dyson and others pointed out that enlarging the opening by only two inches would solve this problem, but their suggestion was turned down.
The two of you are making the same mistake. If Becket makes the list for an idea, then certainly Chamberlain deserves notice for a terrible miscalculation. I challenge you to come up with a more worthy 20th century figure. And you have not yet done so.
Oh. You're in big trouble then.
Belief in the "communion of saints" is part of the Apostle's Creed. We used to recite this frequently in Episcopal Church services. One reason I became an atheist is that I felt people were just reciting these things wihout knowing what they meant.
Mom, I admire your tenacity but with these folks you'd probably get more satisfaction just telling them that eventually all true Christian faiths are destined to return to the Roman Pontif or vanish altogether. That really ought to get their blood pressure up.
Last I checked, Becket was not mentioned in the Bible either, so such distinctions are irrelevant. The article refers to him as a "Saint," if not a "saint." For the purposes of this discussion he is one.
Yes, many Christian churches believe in the Communion of Saints. I like the idea, because in theory, it says we are still linked with all those we love who have gone on before us (the Faithful in Heaven and the Souls in Purgatory). We are the Church Militant here on earth, still struggling through our daily battles to get to be with the ones we love in Heaven. The souls in Purgatory are the ones who died before atoning for their sins here on earth. I like the idea of getting a second chance. We on Earth can pray for those souls until they get released into Heaven. When they get there, they, in turn, pray for us here on earth. It's an eternal Circle where we are all connected (Episcopalians, Lutherans, Catholics, Methodists, etc.) in constant prayer for one another. A Mutual Aid society. Ecumenism at its best.
It works for me!
Correction - Harris was made a baronet, not a knight. This still entitled him to be called "Sir". IIRC, in his book, Dyson refers to him being knighted without naming names.
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