Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vietnam...Facts vs. Fiction
Capt USNR, (Ret) Marshal Hanson

Posted on 01/03/2006 7:53:08 AM PST by RVN Airplane Driver

For over 30 years I -- like many Vietnam veterans -- seldom spoke of Vietnam, except with other veterans, when training soldiers, and in public speeches. These past five years I have joined the hundreds of thousands who believe it is high time the truth be told about the Vietnam War and the people who served there. It's time the American people learn that the United States military did not lose the War, and that a surprisingly high number of people who claim to have served there, in fact DID NOT.

As Americans support the men and women involved in the War on Terrorism, the mainstream media are once again working tirelessly to undermine their efforts and force a psychological loss or stalemate for the United States. We cannot stand by and let the media do to today's warriors what they did to us 35 years a go.

Below are some assembled some facts most readers will find interesting. It isn't a long read, but it will -- I guarantee -- teach you some things you did not know about the Vietnam War and those who served, fought, or died there. Please share it with those with whom you communicate. Vietnam War Facts: Facts, Statistics, Fake Warrior Numbers, and Myths Dispelled

9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the official Vietnam era from August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975. • 2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam • Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation. • 240 men were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War • The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him. • 58,148 were killed in Vietnam • 75,000 were severely disabled • 23,214 were 100% disabled • 5,283 lost limbs • 1,081 sustained multiple amputations • Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21

11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old • Of those killed, 17,539 were married • Average age of men killed: 23.1 years • Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old. • The oldest man killed was 62 years old. • As of January 15, 2 004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War • 97% of Vietnam Veterans were honorably discharged • 91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served • 74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age groups. • Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent. • 87% of Americans hold Vietnam Veterans in high esteem. • There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group (Source: Veterans Administration Study) • Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes. • 85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life. Interesting Census Stats and "Been There" Wanabees:

• 1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures). • During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958. • As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day. During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE who claim to be Vietnam vets are not. The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).

Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school teachers. - Nixon Presidential Papers Common Myths Dispelled: Myth: Common Belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted. Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers.

Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans range from 50,000 to 100,000 - 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran population. Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. "The CDC Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the first 5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more likely among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that initial post-service period, Vietnam veterans were no more likely to die from suicide than non-Vietnam veterans. In fact, after the 5-year post-service period, the rate of suicides is less in the Vietnam veterans' group.

Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were killed in the Vietnam War. Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races. Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John Sibley Butler, in their recently published book "All That We Can Be," said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder during Vietnam "and can report definitely that this charge is untrue. Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia  a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war." Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and uneducated. Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better. Here are statistics from the Combat Area Casualty File (CACF) as of November 1993. The CACF is the basis for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial (The Wall): Average age of 58,148 killed in Vietnam was 23.11 years. (Although 58,169 names are in the Nov. 93 database, only 58,148 have both event date and birth date. Event date is used instead of declared dead date for some of those who were listed as missing in action) Deaths Average Age Total: 58,148 23.11 years Enlisted: 50,274 22.37 years Officers: 6,598 28.43 years Warrants: 1,276 24.73 years E1 525 20.34 years 11B MOS: 18,465 22.55 years

Myth: The common belief is the average age of an infantryman fighting in Vietnam was 19. Fact: Assuming KIAs accurately represented age groups serving in Vietnam, the average age of an infantryman (MOS 11B) serving in Vietnam to be 19 years old is a myth, it is actually 22. None of the enlisted grades have an average age of less than 20. The average man who fought in World War II was 26 years of age.

Myth: The Common belief is that the domino theory was proved false. Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.

Myth: The common belief is that the fighting in Vietnam was not as intense as in World War II. Fact: The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the helicopter. One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam was a casualty. 58,148 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.7 million who served. Although the percent that died is similar to other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300 percent higher than in World War II ....75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled. MEDEVAC helicopters flew nearly 500,000 missions. Over 900,000 patients were airlifted (nearly half were American). The average time lapse between wounding to hospitalization was less than one hour. As a result, less than one percent of all Americans wounded, who survived the first 24 hours, died. The helicopter provided unprecedented mobility. Without the helicopter it would have taken three times as many troops to secure the 800 mile border with Cambodia and Laos (the politicians thought the Geneva Conventions of 1954 and the Geneva Accords or 1962 would secure the border).

Myth: Kim Phuc, the little nine year old Vietnamese girl running naked from the napalm strike near Trang Bang on 8 June 1972.....shown a million times on American television....was burned by Americans bombing Trang Bang. Fact: No American had involvement in this incident near Trang Bang that burned Phan Thi Kim Phuc. The planes doing the bombing near the village were VNAF (Vietnam Air Force) and were being flown by Vietnamese pilots in support of South Vietnamese troops on the ground. The Vietnamese pilot who dropped the napalm in error is currently living in the United States. Even the AP photographer, Nick Ut, who took the picture, was Vietnamese. The incident in the photo took place on the second day of a three day battle between the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) who occupied the village of Trang Bang and the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) who were trying to force the NVA out of the village. Recent reports in the news media that an American commander ordered the air strike that burned Kim Phuc are incorrect. There were no Americans involved in any capacity. "We (Americans) had nothing to do with controlling VNAF," according to Lieutenant General (Ret) James F. Hollingsworth, the Commanding General of TRAC at that time. Also, it has been incorrectly reported that two of Kim Phuc's brothers were killed in this incident. They were Kim's cousins not her brothers.

Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam. Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike, a professor at the University of California, Berkeley a major military defeat for the VC and NVA.

THE UNITED STATES DID NOT LOSE THE WAR IN VIETNAM, THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE DID. Read on........

The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American military left Vietnam. The last American troops departed in their entirety 29 March 1973. How could we lose a war we had already stopped fighting? We fought to an agreed stalemate. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27 January 1973. It called for release of all U.S. prisoners, withdrawal of U.S. forces, limitation of both sides' forces inside South Vietnam and a commitment to peaceful reunification. The 140,000 evacuees in April 1975 during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of civilians and Vietnamese military, NOT American military running for their lives. There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 then there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. Thanks for the perceived loss and the countless assassinations and torture visited upon Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians goes mainly to the American media and their undying support-by-misrepresentation of the anti-War movement in the United States. As with much of the Vietnam War, the news media misreported and misinterpreted the 1968 Tet Offensive. It was reported as an overwhelming success for the Communist forces and a decided defeat for the U.S. forces. Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite initial victories by the Communists forces, the Tet Offensive resulted in a major defeat of those forces. General Vo Nguyen Giap, the designer of the Tet Offensive, is considered by some as ranking with Wellington, Grant, Lee and MacArthur as a great commander. Still, militarily, the Tet Offensive was a total defeat of the Communist forces on all fronts. It resulted in the death of some 45,000 NVA troops and the complete, if not total destruction of the Viet Cong elements in South Vietnam. The Organization of the Viet Cong Units in the South never recovered. The Tet Offensive succeeded on only one front and that was the News front and the political arena. This was another example in the Vietnam War of an inaccuracy becoming the perceived truth. However, inaccurately reported, the News Media made the Tet Offensive famous.

Please give all credit and research to:

Capt. Marshal Hanson, U.S.N.R (Ret.) Capt. Scott Beaton, Statistical Source


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: mdm; mediabias; vietnam; vietnamveterans; vietnamwar
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-103 next last
To: DMZFrank
The anti-war movement has also neglected to take any responsibility for their 'friendly' casualties.... returning Nam Vets.

I have heard the same story so many times it makes me sick. It goes like this, "Well when I got back from the Nam, I learned not to talk about it. The reception was too hostile". THAT is how acute PTSD (cure-able) becomes chronic PTSD (not cure-able).
41 posted on 01/03/2006 9:07:24 AM PST by Stashiu (RVN, 1969-70)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver; DMZFrank

Great information guys. Thanks to you both for your past service and continued courage.

Best Regards

Sergio


42 posted on 01/03/2006 9:07:34 AM PST by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ConsentofGoverned
Good for you! Sure sounds like they got the message!

You deserve alot of credit, but maybe your paper deserves some as well.They could have just shrugged you off, but it sounds like maybe they didn't.

43 posted on 01/03/2006 9:08:00 AM PST by smoothsailing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

Great post.

I had a link years ago to a database of veterans, and of course lost it since. Anyone have a good link?

Remember being surprised how many McCarthy's there were with my first name. I was the only 6511 though........

August 67-May 69...Yeah, I extended.


44 posted on 01/03/2006 9:10:41 AM PST by doorgunner69
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

Thank you.

I served two tours of combat duty in Vietnam in the navy. On Rivermud 26B and on Budweiser, if you ever heard the call signs.


45 posted on 01/03/2006 9:16:18 AM PST by Sundog (cheers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

BTT. Facts won't deter a true believer, and the antiwar types believe only what makes them comfortable. I had an exchange with one of them over the holidays in which I said that Iraq didn't sink Kerry in the last election, Vietnam did. I'd pay money to have captured the look of utter incomprehension on his face...


46 posted on 01/03/2006 9:17:27 AM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TheCrusader

Whatever. If you want to hurl insults, be my guest. You certainly won't be the first. But if you want to make the case that America and our way of life was threatened by North Vietnam, then perhaps you should start a new thread.

That's what I said in post #27.


47 posted on 01/03/2006 9:17:53 AM PST by sheltonmac (QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver
Thanks for the excellent post. It is incredible that some people believe that we lost the VN war simply because the MSM has preached that for so long.

I have waged this battle for truth about the war, seeming alone, for decades. The initial reaction from my audiences has been, "You can't be serious!". After the facts are laid out, universally I hear, "Why didn't we know that?"

The bottom line is: Never trust a journalist to write history!!

48 posted on 01/03/2006 9:18:52 AM PST by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: smoothsailing
I just had to go and look it up. Virginia has a whole raft of military related vanity plates, including Viet Nam Veteran. DMV wants a "COPY OF DD214 SHOWING VETERAN FOUGHT IN THE VIETNAM CONFLICT".
49 posted on 01/03/2006 9:23:50 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

Great post! The news media never was nor never will be the friend of veterans and the military. Let's always elect and support only those who understand the price of Freedom.


50 posted on 01/03/2006 9:26:37 AM PST by Dr. I. C. Spots
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Nam Vet

I have a worthless brother in law who swears to this day that he served in country. He was in the Army Reserve unit that trained drilled instructors during that time but claims he went over there on some top secret mission for which he supposedly was awarded a Bronze Star. This guy never left Astoria, Oregon in his life and as a long shoreman refused to take other jobs out of town because he thinks he is some sort of big shot there.


51 posted on 01/03/2006 9:30:19 AM PST by shotgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

"THE UNITED STATES DID NOT LOSE THE WAR IN VIETNAM, THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE DID"

You're so right! I used to argue this when I was just a little kid. I was too young to go to 'Nam. But I would have and a bit ticked I couldn't. I can't tell you of all the teeth from hippies I knocked out of mouths when I was 14. But it was a few. I was 15 or 16 when they stopped sending troops there. But I've never insulted any one who served there--nor will I ever.


52 posted on 01/03/2006 9:36:24 AM PST by WKUHilltopper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shotgun

Apparently you worthless lying BIL..has lot's of company. Over the years I have been amazed at some idiot trying to pass himself off as a Vietnam Vet....they always get tripped up on the lingo....usually takes about 2 minutes and you can figure out they're lying....but most will continue..just like you BIL.


53 posted on 01/03/2006 9:36:36 AM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: ArrogantBustard
That's good news! I grew up in the Tidewater area (Princess Anne County-now Virginia Beach) and with all of the military presence there, it's good to know that the Commonwealth properly honors their own.
54 posted on 01/03/2006 9:40:10 AM PST by smoothsailing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

Vietnam Vets deserve as much credit as Ronald Reagan for ultimately helping to bring down the Berlin Wall. We showed the Soviets that they were not going to expand their influence without incurring a heavy price. Ultimately they weren't willing to do so. I shudder to think what would have happened had we not acted in Southeast Asia. Vietnam was a battle in a much larger war, and ultimately we won that war, precisely because we did what we did in Southeast Asia. Yes, South Vietnam was lost, but much more was ultimately gained.


55 posted on 01/03/2006 9:43:21 AM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sheltonmac
"But if you want to make the case that America and our way of life was threatened by North Vietnam, then perhaps you should start a new thread."

This is a stunted argument that falsely presupposes that North Vietnam was the lone Communist threat in the world. Communism was growing in the world through conquest and dictatorship at a very alarming rate. We were dealing with the U.S.S.R. in the "Cold War", the space race and the nuclear arms race. China had turned communist in 1949. Communist Cuba had Soviet nukes pointing at us from just 90 miles off our coast. Communism was taking root in South America, and there were troubling signs that Communism had begun to root itself within the United States.

In light of the above harsh realities for America at the time, stopping North Vietnam from spreading Communism to its Democratic south became an imperitive. It was the staging area in which the U.S. chose to take a military stand against the juggernaut of Communism, for the reasons I just stated, not because N. Vietnam itself was a threat. It was also a highly tactical staging area because it placed our military in the vicinity of Red China and the Soviets, which sent a clear message to these Communist giants as well. This was indeed the case, as both communist empires aided North Vietnam with weapons, ammunition, supplies, advisors, and even troops at one time. (During the war there were reports of Chinese troops in the NVA).

56 posted on 01/03/2006 9:43:28 AM PST by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the mohammedans has devastated the Churches of God" Pope Urban II ~ 1097A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

"Over the years I have been amazed at some idiot trying to pass himself off as a Vietnam Vet...."

Yes, this is amazing. I had a guy I used to supervise back in the early 90s claiming "flash backs". I was on his case for something and he brought this out. I asked, "flash backs of what??" And he said "Vietnam". I reminded him he was about my age and I told him the only flash backs he could have was watching it on the news unless he lived in some village called Phuc U or something. I couldn't believe this guy would try to pull this one. He didn't stick around too much longer.

Amazing...the whimps out there...


57 posted on 01/03/2006 9:44:56 AM PST by WKUHilltopper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver



Thank you.

God bless America.


58 posted on 01/03/2006 9:46:45 AM PST by bentover
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

Thank you. I've marked for future reference. Thanks again.


59 posted on 01/03/2006 10:06:34 AM PST by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RVN Airplane Driver

Let me offer a different perspective to people who think we "..lost the war in Vietnam."

During the late seventies, I was on a job in Indonesia. I struck up a conversation with one of the locals, and I will never forget what he said to me.

"Every night, before I go to sleep, I thank God for the Americans, because if you hadn't stopped them [the Communists] in Vietnam, we would be fighting them here today."

Now, I don't make the claim that Indonesia is the epitome of a western style democracy, but at least they have a chance, and are headed (however slowly) in the right direction.


60 posted on 01/03/2006 10:11:18 AM PST by sima_yi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-103 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson