Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Fuente Magna (The Rosetta Stone Of The Americas)
Geocities ^ | 11-5-2002 | J M Allen

Posted on 01/03/2006 6:26:08 PM PST by blam

Fuente Magna

Rosetta stone of the Americas

"Atlantis: the Andes Solution" by J.M.Allen (pub Windrush Press 1998) and basis of the Discovery film "Atlantis in the Andes" by Lisa Hutchison proposes the question "did anyone ever consider that the first reed boats may have crossed from west to east perhaps following the route from the River Plate eastwards across the Atlantic, past the Cape of Good Hope and via the Indian Ocean to enter the Persian Gulf and Red Sea to found the early civilisations of Mesopotamia and Egypt?"

It is obvious that at that time, the author suspected a Sumerian presence in South America, but more than that, that the "Sumerians" originated in South America. At the time of publication, it was difficult to offer more than a theory that the Sumerians were from South America due to a lack of physical evidence, however with the recent discovery of Cuneiform Writing on a bowl found in Bolivia, which has been named the "Fuente Magna" or "Rosetta Stone of the Americas", the archaeological picture of Ancient South America has now changed.

The Fuente Magna

Previous reasons for suspecting the Sumerians in South America

J.M.Allen in his unpublished book "Decoding Ezekiel's Temple" investigates the origins of all the ancient measurement systems including the Sumerian units called "shusi", the Sumerian cubits and also the origins of the "English" inch and sacred and great cubits of Ezekiel's Temple.

With the exception of the Tower of Babel, whose base side measured 300ft, the Sumerians used cubits based on multiples of shusi of 0.66" and they never used the inch or half-inch derived from the diameter of the Earth. This is strange because Ezekiel's description of the Holy City is in fact a description of the Temple complex in Babylon, and the measurements he gives relate to "sacred" cubits of 25" and "great" cubits of 30", so the perimeter wall of the complex measured 12,000 great cubits of 30" (each side was 500 reeds and each reed six cubits) whereas the inner wall which was the base of the ziggurat measured 144 cubits ….Revelation 21/17 "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."…. these were "sacred" cubits of 25" thus 300 "English" feet.

That leaves the question, who originated the system of inches and half inches derived from the Diameter of the Earth and used the system of "sacred" cubits of 25" and "great" cubits " of 30"?

According to "America's Ancient Civilisations" by Hyatt & Ruth Verrill, the smallest Inca unit was a "hand" of 5" with multiples of 30" and 75" (i.e. one great cubit and three sacred cubits!) In Mexico and Peru, we also find the 33" unit which is known as a Sumerian yard of 100 Sumerian shusi! (Megalithic sites in Britain, Prof. A. Thom, Clarendon Press).

According to Cambridge archaeologist Dr Ann Kendall, the Inca had no fixed unit of measurement yet she tells us, "the coastal road was consistently wide, about 5 metres or 16.5 ft in width." Now 16.5ft is quite simply one "reed" or pole used for land surveying even today in England and had it's origin as one Sumerian "pole" or reed which was 15 "Sumerian" feet! Four of these "poles" make a standard surveying chain which was divided into 100 links and 40 poles made the standard Sumerian furlong of 660ft.

Further evidence of "Sumerian" measurements in South America comes from J.Alden Mason writing in "The Ancient Civilisation of Peru". He quotes measurements of lines set out on the plain of Nazca which have standard lengths of 595ft – in Babylonian/Sumerian units this would suggest a standard length of 360 Sumerian cubits of 19.8² was intended.

He also quotes roads in Peru as being of a standard width of 33ft that is two x standard Sumerian surveying poles. The distance between rest houses on the royal Inca roads he tells us was a standard of 4½ miles – which in Sumerian units would be 360 standard surveying chains of 66ft. As to Inca bricks, Alden Mason gives the average size as being 32 by 8 by 8 inches – in units of Sumerian shusi of 0.66² this would suggest a brick of 48 x 12 x 12 shusi was intended.

This suggests that a "lost" culture existed in ancient Peru/Bolivia which originated both the sacred cubit of 25", the great cubit of 30" and the Sumerian yard of 33". It would also tend to suggest we really ought now to ask the question – did the Sumerians sail to South America, or put the other way round, - did the Sumerians themselves come from South America?

Other similarities between Sumerian and early Bolivian culture.

In his book "Legend - the Genesis of Civilisation", archaeologist David Rohl proposes that the ancient Egyptian culture was founded by Sumerians who landed on the shores of the Red Sea. He shows pictures of early reed ships painted on cave walls in the Eastern Egyptian Desert. What he does not mention or consider, is that these reed ships painted on the cave walls are identical to reed ships in Bolivia - see photo with sample from museum in Bolivia. He also mentions the Sumerians introduced a type of wall with pillars outcropping at intervals. - This again, is similar to the wall of the Kalasasayo temple in Bolivia at Tiahuanaco.

Up to now, the main objection to Atlantis being situated in Bolivia is that it is said that there was no civilisation in Bolivia before, say, 1200BC. It was also said that no writing existed in ancient South America.

However the recent discovery of the city of Caral in Peru, with pyramids dated to 2627BC predates Egyptian pyramids.

The discovery of mummies at Arica in Chile date to 8,000BC - older than Egyptian mummies.

And now, Fuente Magna, a bowl inscribed with cuneiform, proto Sumerian writing dating to 3,500BC has been found in Bolivia. It also demonstrates there was writing in ancient South America. Could these "proto Sumerians" be the missing "Atlantean" culture J.M.Allen has been looking for?

When Thor Heyerdahl built his reed ship to sail from Africa to America, he had to use boat builders from Lake Titicaca. When he built his reed ship to sail from Mesopotamia in the Persian Gulf he again used Bolivian boatbuilders to construct it for him.

When Noah built his Ark to escape the flood (originally a Sumerian legend, written by Gilgamesh, king of Uruk), he built a Giant Reed Ship. The dimensions given in the Bible, can be demonstrated by J.M.Allen to be those of a standard Sumerian Reed Ship.

The "Sumerians" who settled in Mesopotamia, now southern Iraq had a culture very similar to that of the URU - a people who lived on the Bolivian Altiplano (said to be the people of the dawn or the first people) all along the aquatic axis of the river Desaguadero from Lake Titicaca to Lake Poopo. They lived on floating islands made of bundles of reeds tied together. Today what is left of these people live on floating islands in Lake Titicaca and in the remote village of Chipaya in the middle of the level Altiplano, now more or less a desert, west of Lake Poopo. Here they live in little round huts only a few inches above the level of the plain which is often flooded, so they live in the midst of the waters and are an "aquatic" people.

In Mesopotamia, the early Sumerians are said to have arrived by sea and were an aquatic people, in the beginning the early settlers lived amongst the marshes and used reed boats not unlike those of Lake Titicaca and lake UruUru ( a continuation of Lake Poopo). One of their deities, Oannes was a "fish god" and said to be the bringer of civilisation. Another of their deities was ENKI, like Poseidon, the god of the sea who is said to have taught them how to build canals to irrigate the level plain they lived upon; he arrived on a reed ship with high prow and stern. The Sumerians built a city called UR and their name for the river Euphrates was Urutu meaning "copper river", yet there was no copper or any other metals in the region, so the river was used to import metals from overseas. It's not hard to guess where they went.

When Solomon built the Temple, he employed the Phoenicians to do the building and provide the precious metals used to clad the walls. The Phoenicians themselves, according to Herodotus, originated in the Persian Gulf.

They used a seaport at Gebel on the gulf of Aqabba (Red Sea) and their voyage to Tarshish, source of the metals, took 3 years. On the return trip, they also brought ivory, apes and peacocks. Archaeologists have looked for Tarshish at the mouth of the Guadalquivir River, in Spain, but there were no peacocks in Spain. Peacocks came from Ceylon. Tarshish could be reached by two routes, one via the Mediterranean (Jonah was en-route to Tarshish when swallowed by the whale), the other from the Red Sea.

Tarshish according to the Greek classics was on an island at the entrance to a river, "This river has its source in the 'silver mountain' and in its stream it carries, besides silver and tin, a great abundance of gold and bronze. The river Tartessus divides into two arms when it reaches the mouth. Tartessus, the city, stands between the arms, as on an island."

Such an island and such a river exist in Bolivia. The river is the River Pilcomayo (formerly called the "river of silver"). It's source is the Silver Mountain called Potosi, a mountain of solid silver which was used to finance the Spanish Empire. The river carries all the above mentioned metals and when it discharges into the river Paraguay it divides into two with an island in between.

In "The Shadow of Atlantis" Col A. Braghine states "the forefathers of Egyptians issued from South America… he then gives the line of longitude of the starting point of the pre-Egyptians, 57º 42´ 45". Co-incidentally, this line of longitude passes through this island at the entrance to the Pilcomayo. Because the silver and tin mines lie at a high altitude of 12,500ft in the Andes, it was necessary to have a seaport lower down where the metals could then be shipped abroad and the island at the entrance to the Pilcomayo river was the ideal choice since the Pilcomayo was the route to the mines, and downstream the Rivers Paraguay and Parana were the route to the Ocean.

In the beginning, someone had to be the very first person to sail across the Ocean. If the Sumerians without prior knowledge sailed from the Persian Gulf, along the coast of Africa, across to Brasil, they would have to enter the Rio Plata or Amazon and travel considerable distances away from their ships to locate the sources of the silver, tin and gold.

But if the first people left the estuary of the Rio Plata in a giant reed ship, they could sail due east past South Africa into the Indian Ocean, the current would then take them up to Ceylon where the peacocks were found, then to India where they could found the Indus Valley civilisation, then in turn along the Persian Gulf to found the "Sumerian" civilisation, and eventually the Red Sea to found the Egyptian civilisation.

Traces of coca have been found in Egyptian mummies, and coca has also been found growing on the island of Madagascar which would have been on the above route. On the island of Bahrain, Heyerdahl found interlocking stones of Andean-type construction at the lower levels of walls under excavation.

Bolivian reed-boatbuilder Porfirio Limachi is keen to build a giant reed ship (given the funding) to repeat the above voyage from South America to the Persian Gulf and it is also under consideration by the Kota Mama expeditions who have already sailed reed ships (I) from Lake Titicaca to Lake Poopo along the River Desaguadero, (II) from Bolivia via the rivers Paraguay and Parana to the Atlantic Ocean at Buenos Aires, and (III) from Bolivia to the Atlantic Ocean via the River Amazon.

The Bolivian scientist Emeterio Villamil de Rada (1800-1876) demonstrated in his book "la lengua de Adan" (the language of Adam) that Aymara was the root of all languages and today Aymara - which is thought to be a completely artificial language - has been found to be an ideal "computer" language which facilitates the translation from one language to another. The traditions of Villamil de Rada are carried on today by Bolivian philosopher and scholar Carlos Aliaga who wants to found an academy of the Aymara language in the village of Sorata, birthplace of Villamil de Rada. Carlos can also demonstrate that "ENKI", the "Poseidon" of the Sumerians was derived from "Inca", meaning "great lord". Dr Mario Montano found "linguistic evidence which indicated a Sumerian substratum in the Aymara and Quechua languages of Peru and Bolivia."

The "Fuente Magna" bowl was discovered way back in 1960 but dismissed until the year 2000 when the Discovery team went to Bolivia to film "Atlantis in the Andes." An archaeological team later went back to the site where the bowl was found and were told of other similar artefacts, later the team uncovered the Pokotia idol again covered with proto-Sumerian writing.

Other artefacts along with mastodon bones and tree-trunks have been found underground on the Bolivian/Peruvian border.

It is clear that civilisation in ancient South America is much older and more extensive than has been previously recognised. Due to lack of funding many sites have not been at all investigated and those that have, only partially explored. It is now acknowledged that a civilisation existed throughout the whole of Amazonia where previously it was thought there was none.

The dating of the Fuente Magna bowl pushes the origins of South American civilisation back to contemporary with or earlier than Egyptian or Sumerian civilisation and other recent finds have not yet been published which may show that it is earlier still. There remains much to be uncovered or discovered and the Fuente Magna bowl is about to open a whole new chapter in the history of Bolivia, South America or Atlantis as it was once called, and the world.

J.M.Allen, 5th November 2002


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americas; bolivia; cuneiform; epigraphyandlanguage; fuente; fuentemagna; godsgravesglyphs; khipu; magna; quipu; rosetta; stone

1 posted on 01/03/2006 6:26:12 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv; RightWhale

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 01/03/2006 6:27:01 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
The Fuentes Magna?


3 posted on 01/03/2006 6:31:06 PM PST by FReepaholic (Admitted FReepaholic since 1998.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

It seems we are being flooded with new discoveries. This one sounds like it is going to change the rules.


4 posted on 01/03/2006 6:36:33 PM PST by winodog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tscislaw
Fuente Magna and the Monolith of Pokotia

A large stone vessel, resembling a libation bowl, and now known as the Fuente Magna, was originally discovered in a rather casual fashion by a country peasant from the ex-hacienda CHUA, property of the Manjon family situated in the surrounding areas of Lake Titicaca about 75/80 km from the city of La Paz.

The site where it was found has not been subject to investigation until recently. The Fuente Magna has not been shown in Bolivia until year 2000. It was considered false, until we began the investigations.

The Fuente Magna was found The piece in question is a little out of place. It is beautifully engraved in chestnut-brown both inside and out. It reveals zoological motifs and anthropomorphic characters within.

Fuente Magna - Rosetta Stone of the Americas.

In 1958/60 Don Max Portugal Zamora, a Bolivian archaeologist, learned of it's existence Pastor Manjon. Mr. Portugal "baptized" the site with the name it bears today, "Fuente Magna"--in our view an accurate assessment. Instantly it's rescuing was studiously embarked upon. Through the mediation and negotiation of General Armando Escobar Uria property was swapped for another parcel in the neighborhood of Sopocachi.

Safely under the protection of the honorable, municipal, mayoralty Mr. Portugal began to restore it by applying cement to the parts that showed chipping and deterioration--minor repairs for effect, in our view. He lost no time in attempting to decipher the writting inside the object turning to the texts known as "Qellga Llippichi" one of those interpreted by Don Franz Tamayo. He also consulted a publication by our illustrious friend, Dr. Dick Edgar Ibarra Grasso, entitled "Indigenous Andean Writing" (HAM La Paz 1953), it ends as you might expect (fruitless). The limits of his honest efforts. The writing is undoubted from the Old World.

Hebraic--from the sinaitic appearance influenced by cuneiform, or simply cuneiform of possible Sumero-Akkadian origins, this being the take-off point on which we announced our extraordinary discovery. Two mayors (local guys) don Armando Escobar Uria and Don Mario Mercado Vaca Guzman have been looking after our investigation until very recently with many restrictions since we cannot count on the support of the state.

Nevertheless, work has continued on what we call the "Rosetta Stone of the Americas", for lack of a better name. If our method of investigation holds up several things are worthy of note:

We are dealing with an object which was made in keeping with Mesopotamian tradition.

It contains two texts, one in cuneiform and another Semitic language of possible Sinaitic extraction cuneiform influences.

According to the symbols used one would be before an object that evidently shows itself to be from the transitional period between ideographical writing and cuneiform.

Chronologically, this leads us to the 3500/3000 B.C., the Sumerian/Akkadian period.

5 posted on 01/03/2006 6:38:39 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: blam
When an author can't get a simple fact right, like the difference between a "reed" and a "rod" in modern measurement, I tend to lose interest and to question more esoteric facts about which I know a lot less...

In the modern world, the "rod" is still a recognized unit of land measurement, being used extensively in the 19th and early 20th century, but I have never heard of a "reed", even by reference.

6 posted on 01/03/2006 6:45:47 PM PST by Publius6961 (The IQ of California voters is about 420........... .............cumulatively)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: winodog

I doubt it. There is too much at stake for the scientists who make their money off older theories. They have published books and get paid to teach what they do. They always fight new information that may discredit their dissertation.


7 posted on 01/03/2006 6:49:06 PM PST by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: blam
The provenance of this artifact has been seriously compromised. When exactly it was found is not mentioned; all we know is that it was pre-1958. Establishing age by inference is probably the wildest varying method in the universe. It could end up being 100 years old, or 100,000. Nothing in the article suggests any serious attempts at truly scientific dating, so that aspect is inconclusive.

Finally, why hasn't the "proto-cuneiform" been totally photographed or documented by transcription?

All is not well with this Fuente Magna.

8 posted on 01/03/2006 6:54:52 PM PST by Publius6961 (The IQ of California voters is about 420........... .............cumulatively)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: satchmodog9

Either very interesting or very, very wrong. Likely the latter.


9 posted on 01/03/2006 6:57:30 PM PST by Paladin2 (If the political indictment's from Fitz, the jury always acquits.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blam

Maybe we got the story of Atlantis backward. Remember that Bolivia is at a high altitude compared to sea level.

Perhaps Atlantis (Bolivia) didn't sink--but the country around it did!

Or maybe Atlantis/Bolivia rose instead of sinking.

Or maybe...


10 posted on 01/03/2006 7:09:33 PM PST by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
To get an "Atlantean" city all you need is the construction of a townsite in a lake-bed that floods regularly. Happens all the time (SEE: Mexico City, Venice).

What doesn't happen all the time are the pictographs drawn in caves and on the undersides of cliffs in Samiland in Finland. These items date back to 7500 BC. Among other things, you can clearly understand some of the stories they tell and notice that much of the material shows up in the earliest Sumerian stories millenia later.

Even the aboriginal languages there are cognates of ancient Sumerian.

The pictographs are still older than anything these guys have found in the Americas, or even the Middle-East, China, Egypt, North Africa, or just about anywhere else than the extreme North Coast of Europe~!

11 posted on 01/03/2006 7:17:40 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: blam

Alas, we had a topic about this, just saw it this morning while cruisin' the keyword "PERU" here on FR. I'm inclined to believe those marks on the item are representations of something akin to quipu. Let's see...

The Monolith of Pokotia (Sumerian Language etched on Ancient Mesopotamian Items)!
Bernardo Biadós Yacovazzo & Freddy Arce, | FR Post 10-19-2002
Posted on 10/19/2002 10:28:48 AM PDT by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/772170/posts


12 posted on 01/03/2006 11:38:19 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/pledge)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

13 posted on 01/03/2006 11:41:03 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/pledge)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

There are 5000 year old Egyptian hieroglyphs in the Australian outback.


14 posted on 01/04/2006 10:30:30 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
"There are 5000 year old Egyptian hieroglyphs in the Australian outback."

Ancient Egypt Link With Australia

"The hieroglyphs tell the tale of early Egyptian explorers, injured and stranded, in ancient Australia. The discovery centres around a most unusual set of rock carvings found in the National Park forest of the Hunter Valley, 100 km north of Sydney."

15 posted on 01/04/2006 10:59:00 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: blam

Can you read that? To me it has a lot of the style of hieroglyphs, but there is too much modern symbology in it. I think it is of recent origin.


16 posted on 01/04/2006 11:08:46 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
"Can you read that? "

No.

17 posted on 01/04/2006 11:54:20 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: blam

It's easy to read. Unfortunately you would have to know the language, but if you did already know the language there would be no problem. Double unfortunate--the symbols in this display bear little resemblance to the phonetic characters of real hieroglyphs.


18 posted on 01/04/2006 11:59:59 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: blam; martin_fierro

I prefer the Fuente Opus X.


19 posted on 01/04/2006 12:02:05 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim ("We're a meat-based society.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

bump


20 posted on 01/04/2006 12:06:55 PM PST by nkycincinnatikid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tijeras_Slim; blam; SunkenCiv

NOW I get it.

21 posted on 01/04/2006 12:44:29 PM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale

It's an obscure dialect of Goa'uld. It says something about the system lord "Bruce" who once ruled Australia.


22 posted on 01/04/2006 12:49:16 PM PST by Redcloak ("If you can't say something nice about someone, then you must be talking about Hillary Clinton.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: martin_fierro; Redcloak

I think you're onto something.


23 posted on 01/04/2006 8:37:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/pledge)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]


· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach ·
· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
 Antiquity Journal
 & archive
 Archaeologica
 Archaeology
 Archaeology Channel
 BAR
 Bronze Age Forum
 Discover
 Dogpile
 Eurekalert
 Google
 LiveScience
 Mirabilis.ca
 Nat Geographic
 PhysOrg
 Science Daily
 Science News
 Texas AM
 Yahoo
 Excerpt, or Link only?
 


Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword ·
· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·


24 posted on 10/21/2010 5:41:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson