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Kosovo policeman kills detainee in "blood feud"
Reuters ^

Posted on 01/04/2006 9:43:54 AM PST by kronos77

PRISTINA, Serbia and Montenegro, Jan 4 (Reuters) - A policeman in Kosovo shot and killed a man during his interrogation in an Albanian-style "blood feud" to avenge the murder of his brother.

Police said the officer shot the 38-year-old suspect late on Tuesday as he was being questioned about illegal firearms at the Pec police station in the west of the United Nations-run province. The officer was subsequently arrested.

Local reports alleged the detainee's brother had stabbed to death the police officer's brother at a nightclub six months ago.

The Pristina daily Express quoted the detainee's lawyer as saying he had warned officers in charge that the two families were "locked in a blood feud." Albania has long had a tradition of blood feuds, often stretching over generations.

Such feuds still surface in Albania and in Serbia's disputed province of Kosovo, where ethnic Albanians make up 90 percent of the population.

They are based on the centuries-old Lek Dugagjini Code which states that Albanian families can avenge the killing of a relative by taking the life of either the killer or a member of their family.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: antichristian; appeasement; balkans; clinton; clintonistas; clintonlegacy; clintonsquagmire; hoopielite; islamofascists; jihad; jihadapologists; kosovo; pogrom; serbia; sorosfluffers; terror; un; usa; wrongplace; wrongside; wrongtime; wrongwar
Can someone from State Department eplain to me how can Christians feel secure if Police is killing people? Illegal guns in police station?

Hello?

1 posted on 01/04/2006 9:43:55 AM PST by kronos77
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To: kronos77
Serbian policemen murdered three Americans in 1999 after their release from Serbian jail.

We're still waiting for them to be held accountable.

If this K-Albanian officer enjoys the same immunity as those Serbian policemen, then you'll have a case.

2 posted on 01/04/2006 10:10:22 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

You mean the mercenary KLA men who AFTER the Kosovo war and while Serbia was still under a state of emergency infiltrated Serbia and were caught in Serbia. These men also had refused to disarm after the Kosovo war, according to an Albanian who fought with them.


3 posted on 01/04/2006 12:40:08 PM PST by joan
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To: Hoplite

In this case the killing will only further fuel the blood feud as the dead man's family will probably want to go after the policeman, and if they can't get him a member of his immediate or extended family will do.


4 posted on 01/04/2006 12:45:20 PM PST by joan
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To: Hoplite; ma bell; tgambill; DTA; Banat; getoffmylawn; Wraith
Ah yes, the American merc wannabes who illegally joined the KLA.

I'm really surprised you tried peddling this. You're losing it old man, you've been reduced to grasping at straws.

5 posted on 01/04/2006 1:12:07 PM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: kronos77

Ah yes, the wonderful Code of Lek.


6 posted on 01/04/2006 1:13:12 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

The gift that keeps on giving.


7 posted on 01/04/2006 1:25:22 PM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: joan
Nothing you say changes the fact that Serbian policemen extrajudicially executed American citizens, and in the more than 6 years which have passed by, Serbia has sat on its hands.

Serbia isn't a country, it's a tribe.

And the reservation keeps shrinking.

8 posted on 01/04/2006 1:52:47 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; ma bell; tgambill; DTA; Banat; getoffmylawn; Wraith

Hope-less, (I suspect that there are many ways of saying your handle), there is no example, justify the murder of a person in police custody. In 2001, you were complaining about the murder of the three ALBANIAN Americans, by citing the lack of due process. HERE, you are using the same card in another direction about where is the guilty party. You may also forget that Serbian Investigators were the ones that brought it to light. Anyway, So, before you were complaining about a lack of due process, here you are justifying the murder of a person in custody, in the police station and DURING INTERROGATION for God's sake. The policemen killed the three KLA members because they were terrorist. Secondly, they knew that if extradited to Kosovo they would be released in the same manner that Ramush, Fatmir and all the others were released by the Hague. The same way Florin Ejupi "escaped" from Camp Bondsteel after being arrested for the murder of women and children in a bus by a very large bomb in Podejevo. They left a clear message not to be caught conducting Terrorist acts. Also, what about the 1500 +/- K-Serbs that have been murdered since 1999......since we are talking about the three Albanian Americans, due process and the fear that if arrested someone can't just claim The code...and shoot your butt under a standard that is centuries old.......almost as good as the PMS excuse.......

Hopper, I've been wondering....you seem to always come up with opposite approaches, conflicting opinions, on a website that obviously is looking at issues basically realistically. You would do much better with Libertyforum.org. I would venture a guess that you actually enjoy turning the screwes no matter what the issue is. You are somewhat like Billy Bob Clinton, commonly referred to by his old school buddies as Scooter....in that you take an approach that has some form of argument just to stir the pot.......you actually like this bantering no matter what you believe. This makes you a prostitute and a very confused individual......Even you Hoplet, could change my mind and gladly if you did research and showed proof instead of insults and sarcasm. However this is the approach that you make.....and looking back at your previous answers or comments you are not consistent with your logic.......very biased.

Tom


9 posted on 01/04/2006 4:13:38 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
here you are justifying the murder of a person in custody

Bill, your comprehension of written English is on par with your ability to compose it.

Your posts are painful, but not for the reasons you'd hope.

10 posted on 01/04/2006 4:33:00 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
oh, you mean these 3 Americans (of Albanian descent, which you failed to furnish)?

Why do you fail to disclose and release the full transcript or story instead of deleting a few select words? You are resorting to the same shenanigans you boat that the "Pro-Serb" Freeper Lobbyists committ.

You have no credence of credibility to remain on here.

WOOF

11 posted on 01/04/2006 4:38:54 PM PST by ma bell ("Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". Major General Chesty Puller, USMC)
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To: tgambill
Tom, when he gets frustrated, he berates others with insults. He then will not engage you in a dialogue. Hence, his ignoring my posts directly to him. Soon, you will be on his ignore list since you are another that is a direct challenge to his unintellect theories and propoganda.

Looks like a no-go from my end, Tom, though I might be up your way in a few weeks .

12 posted on 01/04/2006 4:42:49 PM PST by ma bell ("Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". Major General Chesty Puller, USMC)
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To: Hoplite

Once again you avoid the question like the idiot that you are. Instead of getting the message and answering the question you avoid the answers you can't answer with a childish response. Actually, it's in the same manner as the Islamist or speakers of the Satanic Chronical called the Koran. They do the same thing. Also, you have also not read the entire post, as you would see that my name is Tom. However, you probably do that to be a nuisance and change the subject.

So, now ANSWER THE QUESTION, now that you have judged the posting. I don't have the time to make my postings on par with Mark Twain, so, stick with the program and stop your messing around.

Tom


13 posted on 01/04/2006 4:44:56 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
here is some info KLA
14 posted on 01/04/2006 4:47:35 PM PST by ma bell ("Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". Major General Chesty Puller, USMC)
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To: Hoplite
Answer the question, marcus. Afraid of your own shadow, huhh? With all your support of these Albanians and Al-Q friends of yours in the Balkans...

you really think that you would be walking out of there unharmed after walking or traveling through their controlling lands? Even a 80y/o American grandmother had her bike stolen from her while she was riding it, in Albania!

15 posted on 01/04/2006 4:50:51 PM PST by ma bell ("Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". Major General Chesty Puller, USMC)
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To: Hoplite

:)) opppps, I re-read my previous post, and, I have to agree it was hard to read. lolol...oh well, it was written in haste, but I'm not really concerned that much...... My basic writing style is to write and reproof about twice.....so, you got me on that one. However, you still avoided the basic question which is unforgiveable, and you were misleading.......

so, you fix that.

Tom


16 posted on 01/04/2006 4:53:08 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
How can I answer the question when you can't put it into understandable form?

That thing at the end of the preceding sentence is called a question mark, and it denotes a question. You should try learning how to incorporate them into your writing sometime. I'm not looking for Mark Twain, but 9th grade equivalency would be nice.

Yes, your name is Tom, not Bill. Sorry 'bout that.

17 posted on 01/04/2006 4:58:54 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; joan
>>>>>Serbian policemen extrajudicially executed American citizens,<<<<

It is illegal for an American citizen to join and fight with terrorist organisation. Bitiqi brothers have breached AMERICAN law when they joined KLA terrorist organisation and used snipers to murder Serbian police, military and civilians WHILE illegally in Serbia.

If they were law abiding American citizens, nothing would happen to them. Such people are not protected by Geneva Convention.

Crying crocodile tears for people who are criminals according to U.S. legislation is DU stuff. Jamal Mumia revisited.

18 posted on 01/04/2006 5:17:02 PM PST by DTA
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To: Hoplite

In a previous post back in 2001, you had complained about the murder of the three ALBANIAN Americans and the lack of due process. In addition, you had noted that the Serbs had not produced the guilty parties to date. Presently, you bring up the Murder of the three Albanian Americans again but this time you use it to justify the murder of a man in police custody, while undergoing interrogation. So, you are basically changing directions and not addressing the issue at hand. The Murder of a man in police custody is without due process, wouldn’t you agree? So, why bring up the three Albanian Americans as an argument to justify the murder of this person because of the CODE?

The policemen killed the three KLA members because they were terrorist. Secondly, they knew that if extradited to Kosovo they would be released in the same manner that Ramush, Fatmir L. and all the others were released by The Hague. Other examples include the escape of Florin Ejupi who "escaped" from Camp Bondsteel after being arrested for the murder of K-Serb women and children riding in a bus coming from NIS. The very large bomb was command detonated as they drove over the bomb in a drainage ditch in Podejevo.

The Serbs that killed the three ALBANIAN Americans left a clear message to Albanians not to be caught conducting Terrorist acts. Also, tell me about the 1500 +/- K-Serbs that have been murdered since 1999 and when are the perps going to be brought to justice. This was a rhetorical question. Question mark not required. So, what are your thoughts or concerns about the Albanian KPS Officer shooting another Albanian while in police custody due to the Code. What kind of message will this be sending to minorities and the general Albanian population concerning their highly professional Police force? How does the three Albanian Americans being murdered fit into this discussion?

I have from an extremely reliable source, that the system they have in place is in fact designed to fail. The U.S. sends CivPol Officers for a year’s service. Most of these officers go into Monitor positions. They also have been going into active police units for the past several years.

In any police unit it takes a new officer at least a few months to get up to speed. There is however, constant turnover in the units with all the international CivPols. With the constant turnover along with people leaving there is a lack of institutional memory. It’s almost impossible to find an International Officer that knows what went on in any unit from one year ago, much less two or three years ago. Files disappear, cases “go away”, and those not on the take or delivering drugs or taking women to the borders for human trafficking, will tell you the truth.

After all this time, UNMIK has virtually no surveillance equipment to use for investigations, much less an ability to conduct internal investigations. I understand that they barely have phones that work or any computers that even print. I was also told that the whole program is laughable, said with more disgust than with humor. Their form of internal investigations is a failure as I’m told. NO, guilty parties in the KPS have been, nor will ever be arrested or fired from their jobs.

There has been Kosovo wide corrupt “behaviors” by the heads of departments involved in most any method of monetary transactions. For example, Per Diem and travel, gifts, wined and dined by vendors and UCK, phone cards, and the list goes on. Promotions were fixed, and people lied about the events. Very large amounts of money is being spent to upgrade offices but no money is available for necessary police equipment…….I could go on but will serve no purpose.


19 posted on 01/04/2006 6:14:25 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; vooch; ...

Thuggery is as thuggery does.


20 posted on 01/05/2006 6:36:01 AM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: Hoplite; tgambill

Hoplite, are you the language police now, too? What a sad way to avoid addressing the points Tom raised in his post...


21 posted on 01/05/2006 7:14:29 AM PST by Banat ("You've got two empty 'alves of coconut, and you're banging 'em together!")
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To: tgambill; Hoplite; ma bell
"Also, you have also not read the entire post, as you would see that my name is Tom."

LOL!!! I noticed that as well, Hoplite's pride with being detail oriented has bit him im the ass.

22 posted on 01/05/2006 11:08:07 AM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: montyspython

well, I'm still waiting and am looking forward to reading the response. I did in fact rewrite the post, with all the editing of a second draft but not a third or fourth.

Also, in the Libertyforum.org I've stirred the pot again concerning Islam and opposing views. That is going on currently. I'm tired of all this BS and barking at the moon. I'm strongly considering cutting down on personal time not working and make it a personal mission to start writing editorials and shotgunning them to as many newspapers as possible warning about Islam and the second issue our involvement in Kosovo. I'm starting to get pissed off.......


23 posted on 01/05/2006 1:32:17 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
Much better.

Presently, you bring up the Murder of the three Albanian Americans again but this time you use it to justify the murder of a man in police custody, while undergoing interrogation.

Wrong. I do not use it to justify anything. I use it as an example to render absurd the argument that the Serbs are more "Law and Order" than the K-Albanians.

See my earlier comments about your comprehension of written English, while accepting my congratulations for ditching the Mr. Hyde writing style.

Furthermore, the Serb police didn't kill the Bytyqi brothers because they were terrorists. There was no trial charging terrorism, so no verdict, and no legal basis for the murderer's actions whatsoever - merely the same firearms enabled violent Serbian bigotry which had been practiced against non-Serbs under Milosevic since 1991. The only "message" Serbian "justice" sent at the time was that we had good cause to remove it from Kosovo, and each successive year that the Bytyqi case has remained unresolved has merely reinforced that initial message.

So while I can and do condemn a K-Albanian policeman for murdering a suspect without any hesitation or conflict of interest, you've shown that you're more than happy to promote foreign views which are not only counterproductive for the citizens of Serbia, but are directly at odds with American interests, and have resulted in the death of American citizens.

You're nothing but a broken record player Tom, issuing the same tired rationalizations and outright lies we've seen here on FR for at least the last 5 years, regardless of whether you're spinning a yarn about Bosnia or Kosovo.

In the end, none of what you say matters - a bit player like yourself is going to have about as much effect on American Balkans policy as any of the other nutjobs we've got polluting FR's discussions with their asinine prejudice driven opinions.

So yeah, you could go on, and yeah, it will serve no purpose.

24 posted on 01/05/2006 1:36:41 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
"In the end, none of what you say matters "

You should heed your own post Popeye.

25 posted on 01/05/2006 1:51:41 PM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Hoplite
Holbrooke admits to links between bin laden and the kla

Cumberland, Md.: Where you aware of the KLA and Bosnian Muslims' ties to Osama bin Laden at the time you were negotiating with them?

Richard C. Holbrooke: Yes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/02/nation/sp_nation_holbrooke091002.htm

A mere two years prior to 9-11.

Would would the neighbors think?
26 posted on 01/05/2006 5:41:04 PM PST by infidel_and_proud
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To: Hoplite

The Serbs have "tons" of more law and order than the Albanians. Hoppie! Once again you failed to read the remainder of my post. You overlooked the parts that are contrary to your agenda, mainly about the corrupt procedures and behaviors. You also forget that the Serbs are the ones that arrested Milosevic in the first place. Duh!!!, for lack of any other descriptive word, but it seems to apply perfectly.

The Serbs actually curtailed the drug trade and kept the Albanian, Serbian, Macedonian, Russian and Italian Mafia's always guessing. They were also effective in causing the Mafia's to adjust their routes. When the UN, the U.S. along with the rest of the international organizations took over, the crime bosses, 42 to be exact, moved into Kosovo in 199-20000. At that time the drug trade started running rampant. Human trafficking was at it's best, using internationals as mules. This includes an occasional American CivPol Officer or two or three taking them to Serbian border. Other CivPol Officers also took the money and joined the criminal elements. Islamic Fundies were and to a point are operating as well. Granted, I do know that whenever a signficant Islamic Terrorist showed up in the Al Haramain or RHIS groups......lolol....:) they did disappear and ended up in a faraway jail. This was just a little side note relayed to me over the years. I also know that NATO had factual information concerning these groups that they didn't share with the U.S.....games games games.....

So, all I can say is gee whiz, sorry, got off track a little. So, let's talk about the newly established and highly professional "Law and Order" of the Albanian authorities and ICTY. ????????????????

Milosevic is running circles around them. Most all of the Albanian KLA members who murdered Albanians and Serbs are free because of ICTY screw-ups due to a lack of evidence or witnesses. And, a-n-d, most all the witnesses against Ramush, Fatmir, and others are, guess what? Murdered. This includes former members of the FARK which were Albanian professional fighters. Tahir Zemaj comes to mind for one and also Commander Drini. You say that this argument is absurb based on one incident....????? The Serb investigators didn't even have to bring it up in the first place.......

I like my Mr Hyde writing style.....it's......hmmmmm, it's endearing to upset and confuse you. :)

You, nor I can say why the Serbian police killed the Bytyqi brothers. I’m sure they didn’t kill them because they had Koran’s or were selling Fuller Brushes. It's the way they do things in the Balkans. They killed them because they were terrorist. The KLA murdered Serbs cleaning out entire villages, even killing the animals. Sorry, but I have the documentation and testimony. Even Albanians are witnesses. (if they live long enough). There were no violent Serb bigotry to the scale that is protrayed in the media. Were there murders, yes. The Serbs are cleaning their own laundry with media coverage. Is the ICTY doing the same, No. They are afraid of another March 17-18, 2004. Yes, for both the Serbs and Albanians Milosevic had to be removed in one way or another. Did we have justification to invade Kosovo, NOT EVEN CLOSE, as the figures were completely falsified. There were no mass graves, if so, name them! There were no Rape hotels...all false reports to justify the invasion, and bought with Albanian Mafia money given to the American Democratic party. The Spanish Doctor resigned in disgust because none were found. He issued very dramatic statments concerning the lies.

You say the Bytyqi case has remained unresolved and this reinforced the initial message?? Are you serious?? You must be smoking "sumptin" besides Cool's. What about the 1500 Serbs murdered since 1999...inclusive of women, children, and old people?? None resolved……..when arrests were made, they were released.

I WILL promote domestic views about a foreign country when; One, my tax money is being wasted by it ending up in the personal bank accounts belonging to UNMIK department heads and Mafia figures to waste. Two, the money is being spent on extremist who are murdering innocent people, lying to promote genocide in Kosovo, allowing human trafficking and a flourishing drug trade to continue and in all ways resulting in a grand injustice. Third, it is linked with our current fight against the Islamic Fundies.

Our putting out the truth is not counterproductive for the citizens in Serbia. If so, I would love for you to come with me to the next SUC session and say that.....hey, got the balls to put your money where your mouth is. As a matter of fact, give me your email address and I'll put you in touch with the former President of the SUC. You can get his opinion about our presentation at the SUC in Vegas, last November. We presented the same points that I'm talking about here, but in vivid detail.

Now, yes, my opinions are at SERIOUS odds with American interests because we are making a grave mistake. We are basically supporting Muslims killing Orthodox Christians. It is self serving, wrong, and criminal doing what we are doing. The troops are doing the best they can with the “convoluted policy” that we have designed. Most soldiers that have been in Kosovo and have returned to the states will agree. I have personally talked with those leaving after their 6 month deployment. This also includes their disgust with our policy. The orientation they receive before deploying is erroneous and misleading, even now. They still think the Serbs are the bad guys.

“And have resulted in the Death of American Citizens”….

Pray tell what are you talking about? If you mean that by revealing the truth, it has caused the death of Americans via the extremist? You can kiss my ass on that one. The Muslims will kill if we won’t convert, no matter if we kiss their “sheet head” butts, or take their money to improve our knowledge concerning Islam. This comment is out in left field. What citizens? Where? When? You are a seriously disjointed and a significant trouble maker, who has an agenda. How old are you? Do you actually work or just plain retired? Maybe bored because no one else listens to you. Married or single? or just lonely either way? You are way off base.

I am a broken record, and will continue to be, giving out the same, factual, and consistent facts with dates and times. Has it ever occurred to you that the one reason I’m like a broken record and have said much of the same thing that others have said over the past five years; is because it’s true information. Wow, what a concept that is. You sound like this nut-job I knew back in Kosovo named Schmitt or Shultz, Snell or something like that …….who worked at Bondsteel. What a piece of work, a real nut job.

I will go on and probably increase the intensity……get used to it……


27 posted on 01/05/2006 6:34:05 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: infidel_and_proud
Holbrooke is talking about Bosnia, not Kosovo. We gave the KLA a choice between us or Al Qaida, they chose us, and have kept to their side of the bargain, which is why there's no Kosovar version of Zarqawi running around blowing up American soldiers in Kosovo.

As for Bosnia, get yourself a copy of "Al-Qaida's Jihad In Europe", by Evan Kohlmann. The Bosnians accepted the conditional removal of the mujahadeen as part of the Dayton Accords, with the exception of a hundred-odd who married Bosnian women and were allowed to stay.

We've been in Bosnia for over a decade, and while there have been planned attacks which have been prevented, no American has lost his life to a terrorist attack there, and the Bosnians go out of their way to facilitate our counterterrorism activities, as when they handed over the 6 Algerians back in 2002 over the objections of the Bosnian Human Rights Chamber.

28 posted on 01/05/2006 6:36:43 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
I will help you out , Hoplite.

Here's the post again, only this time, take a lot at the question, particularly the initials K L A in the question.

Then, after absorbing it, take a look at Holbrooke's answer. He answers, YES, followed by a period. So he's confirming that the KLA have links with Bin Laden. He then goes on the talk about Bosnia.

Here goes, Hoplite.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/02/nation/sp_nation_holbrooke091002.htm

Cumberland, Md.: Where you aware of the KLA and Bosnian Muslims' ties to Osama bin Laden at the time you were negotiating with them?

Richard C. Holbrooke: Yes.
29 posted on 01/05/2006 6:47:07 PM PST by infidel_and_proud
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To: Hoplite
You're nothing but a broken record player Tom, issuing the same tired rationalizations and outright lies we've seen here on FR for at least the last 5 years, regardless of whether you're spinning a yarn about Bosnia or Kosovo.

Hoppy baby, you must be a glutton for punishment if you spend 5 years reading 'tired rationalizations' and 'outright lies' on a forum that is open to all, with all levels of education? Why would you not move on to a forum that is closer to your education level and moronic thinking? Might I suggest the Democratic Underground website? I would think that you might be happier there! And it would delight us uneducated simpletons here on FR who spew 'tired rationalizations' and 'outright lies' to know that a person of mature stature, such as yourself, would be reading and responding elsewhere.

Just a humble opinion Hoppy, take it for what it's worth. flameguard/on

30 posted on 01/05/2006 7:03:08 PM PST by eeriegeno
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To: infidel_and_proud
Cumberland, Md.: Where you aware of the KLA and Bosnian Muslims' ties to Osama bin Laden at the time you were negotiating with them?

Richard C. Holbrooke: Yes. In fact, we were so concerned about this issue that we wrote into the Dayton Peace Agreements a clause requiring the withdrawal of all "foreign elements" within a short time after the agreement took force. When we found elements that had remained behind, we launched raids against them. Not all of these people were removed, and the effort is still continuing. Without the peace in Bosnia, there is a real chance that bin Laden would have been able to set up in the Balkans what he did in Afghanistan with far greater danger to the West.

Yeah, help me out - which conflict was Dayton concerned with?

The only tie the KLA had with Al Qaida during the time of Holbrooke's involvement in Kosovo was an April 1998 meeting in Tirana between the KLA supreme command and Claude Kader, where the KLA told Kader to take a hike.

Kader was arrested 2 months later, and the rest of his 4 man cell was scooped up by a combined CIA/Albanian intelligence service operation soon thereafter. Kader is in Albanian prison for killing his interpreter, and his colleagues were extradited to Egypt.

As to Al Qaida being in Kosovo after the war, if they're there, they're certainly not following any of Osama's fatwas to attack Americans wherever they may be found, are they?

31 posted on 01/05/2006 7:54:29 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: eeriegeno
take it for what it's worth

Consider it done.

32 posted on 01/05/2006 7:55:34 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: tgambill
Well I didn't see anything in there about me justifying anything with the recent murder by the KPS officer, so I suppose this is progress.

As to the rest of it, you're just going farther into Serb nationalist la-la land.

33 posted on 01/05/2006 8:19:26 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
AQ's foot prints are all over PV and the Sandjak region. Who else would be able to provide the KPC with the training and intel on the US?

When the soldiers on individual unit basis has enough of the KLA shenanigans, hostilities will increase two-fold and that will be the start of overt hostilities against our troops in Kosovo.

34 posted on 01/05/2006 9:50:20 PM PST by ma bell ("Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". Major General Chesty Puller, USMC)
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To: Hoplite

Hoplite, I thought you were just a fat, out of work or unhappy politicah 50 yard quarterback. However, I'm beginning to think, maybe it's the southern comfort talking, that you are actually working for the Saudi's or the CIA as a flunky assigned to provide disinformation in this particular site. You don't have the qualifications to be a regular agent, but they pay you a fair sum to monitor these sites and provide the typical lies. :) If you are employed by the Saudi's then they will have you cleaning camel shit after you finish this gig......My guess, Democratic party and CIA flunky......making a few bucks.......on the side. Maybe with a touch of homo in you....maybe.......:))

Holbrooke is a whore......he said the truth in 1998 and changed his speech when the Democratic started receiving campaign funds from the Albanian Mafia......





JIM LEHRER: Taking them one at a time, is Milosevic willing to sit down and talk to the ethnic Albanians about a solution?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Yes. I saw President Milosevic the day before yesterday, and he reaffirmed his readiness to negotiate with the Albanians. But because Milosevic and the government in Belgrade have degraded the political process in Kosovo for a decade, there's no legitimate Kosovo Albanian leadership anymore in the eyes of many of its own participants.
We work with the support and Dr. Rugiva, Ibraham Rugiva, who supports a peaceful and non-violent solution. But he is not universally accepted as the only leader of the Albanians. And during the last few days in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo, I encountered a wide number of Albanian leaders who simply don't want to work in the united front with him. The in-fighting among the Kosovo-Albanians, which is tragic, is a direct function of what they've been through in the last decade, and meanwhile, you have out in the mountains, in the center of Kosovo, you have a military insurrection that is taking shape, backed by the members of the Albania Diaspora in Germany, Switzerland, and right here in New York City, where a lot of Albanians and Albanian-Americans are sending a lot of money and support to Kosovo.
Holbrooke: An independent Kosovo would "unravel Southeastern Europe."
JIM LEHRER: And they want an independent Kosovo ruled by Albanians, right?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Yes. And more. I met with several Albanian leaders in Kosovo who said their goal is an independent Kosovo, their goal is to recreate the Greater Albania that existed briefly during the 30's and 40's, which includes Albania, Kosovo, and part of Macedonia. That, I can tell you, Jim, would unravel Southeastern Europe and dramatically increase the chances of a general war. And that's why the situation is both not the same as Bosnia and why it's so dangerous.
I really need to stress this point so people do not misunderstand it. The Kosovo Albanians have been very badly treated for over a decade by the Serb minority in Kosovo. Their rights have been denied and the Yugoslav federal constitution was changed to reduce their powers. This was entirely wrong, and it led to the inevitable reaction which we're now seeing. At the same time, the violent solution which is being advocated by the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army, which is really not an army but a lot of different groups that are gradually forming an infrastructure of resistance, this approach is highly dangerous to stability in the region.
And in the last few days the Kosovo Albanian paramilitary have started to take Serb hostages, including two Serbs who were headed to the American embassy to get their visas to emigrate to the United States. Taking hostages and kidnapping people isn't going to solve this problem.
Comparing the factions.
JIM LEHRER: Help us understand, Mr. Ambassador, what the-how the two forces compare. In other words, what do the Kosovars on the one side have militarily compared with what the Serbs could mount on their side?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: The Serbs have overwhelming military presence. They have a regular Yugoslav arm and occasionally a very vicious army, which was responsible for and implicated in ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. The Kosovo Albanians are rapidly arming. At the beginning of this year the estimates were only a hundred or two hundred armed men. Now the estimates are three thousand to five thousand and growing rapidly.
But we don't know who their command structure is. We don't know if there's a single leader or multiple leaders. The émigré groups that my colleague, Ambassador Bob Gelbard, met with in Europe a week and a half ago have not proved that they control the men with arms. This is one of the most difficult things. Milosevic, as I said to your earlier question, is ready to negotiate, but who negotiates on the other side? We are having a lot of difficulty finding the right Albanian negotiators on the other side right now, particularly on the military side.
JIM LEHRER: From your perspective-I mean, obviously you would make a recommendation to the contact group, to the President of the United States and others, but do you think this is serious enough that in order to prevent this thing from blowing up out of hand that US troops, and coupled with other NATO troops, might have to go in there?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Jim, that's an issue that only the President, our commander in chief, can decide for the United States. I have no authority on that issue.
JIM LEHRER: Sure.
Holbrooke's role.
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: I'm advising them as a private citizen right now, and I'm happy to do so whenever I can help Secretary Albright or the White House. But I would only reiterate what Madeleine Albright has repeatedly said and Sandy Berger, that all options are under consideration in a very dangerous situation; and secondly, what General Clark and Ambassador Gelbard have recently said, which is what the NATO contingency plans, themselves, are being refined and focused and narrowed, and made more precise. But the decisions on actual movement, deployment, use of force, I think it would be very premature to speculate, and only the President can decide.
JIM LEHRER: And meanwhile, you're going to try to resolve it peacefully?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Well, wouldn't you?
JIM LEHRER: Sure.
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: I mean, we don't have a general war here. In Bosnia, the US stood aside and did nothing for three or four years and then gradually got into it, and NATO wasn't involved for four years. Here President Clinton and Secretary Albright have launched a full-scale diplomatic effort. And this is being headed not by me, by the way, but by Chris Hill, American Ambassador to Macedonia, who is tonight in Bonn with Ambassador Bob Gelbard at the contact group meeting. Ambassador Hill is the continuous, on-the-ground negotiator. The rest of us help out--as necessary--as useful.
JIM LEHRER: You said you are now operating as a private citizen. Soon, if the Senate confirms, you will be the US Ambassador to the United Nations. Are you going to continue to do these kinds of missions as the UN ambassador?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Well, you know, the rules of the process are such that I really am not supposed to discuss anything to do with my UN role. And, in fact, it's fairly unusual for me to be able to do at all this kind of interview but because I was involved in Kosovo before the President nominated me to the UN, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee agreed I could continue the work, but, if you will forgive me, I just can't address anything to do with the confirmation process. If that question is asked by the committee, then I'll be prepared to answer it.
JIM LEHRER: And I'll be prepared to listen to it.
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: I'm sorry.
JIM LEHRER: No, I understand. I understand. Ambassador Holbrooke, thanks a lot.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/july-dec98/holbrooke_7-7.html


35 posted on 01/05/2006 11:00:46 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

"The Bosnians accepted the conditional removal of the mujahadeen as part of the Dayton Accords, with the exception of a hundred-odd who married Bosnian women and were allowed to stay."

**** they accepted the conditional removal, but it never happened.......in reality. The Islamic side has not attacked Americans because they are not focused in that area yet. They only attack when the population is supportive and surveillance has demonstrated that they will have continued success. You do not understand the Arab mind.......or their tactics. They have kept no side of the bargain. The CIA has tolerated the Islamist presence because it served the purpose against the Serbs.

Your BS won't work here........I will not let you spin this to a lie.......Few attacks have been planned and prevented due to cooperation, I'll agree. But the Islamist are working with the CIA due to a common enemy....the Serbs. When that ends, they WILL attack Americans........


36 posted on 01/05/2006 11:09:28 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
Childish taunts, random interview excerpts, and an added bonus of more BS on Bosnia, which is outside your milieu.

Except for the implication that working for foreign interests against American interests makes one a whore, which I agree with 100%, I'm going to have to score your last efforts as a failure.

Again.

Fact of the matter is Tom that you don't have the ability to insult me in any meaningful way.

Well, I take that back. That you think you could nettle me is vaguely insulting in of itself, so score yourself a point there, sport.

37 posted on 01/05/2006 11:34:32 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

"The only tie the KLA had with Al Qaida during the time of Holbrooke's involvement in Kosovo was an April 1998 meeting in Tirana between the KLA supreme command and Claude Kader, where the KLA told Kader to take a hike."

******Sorry, but there are video tapes of UN and NATO commanders, and Western Advisors working with MUH/Al Quada in Bosnia. In addition, Al Qaida has been in Kosovo since 1999....Al Haramain signed an agreement with the UN to offer Humanitarian assistance. A Saudi NGO, that was banned in Afghanstan and Pakistan. An Iranian NGO, RHIS...was running free in Prizren......also an Al Qaeda organization. I have a document signed by the manager of Al Haramain with the UN offering "Humantarian Aid"....in February 2002. In 1998, the Al Haramain was linked to Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan and Afghanistan. On March 11, 2002, Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neal announced blocking the accounts of Somalia and Bosnia-Herzegovina branches of Al Haramain that had been engaged in supporting terrorist organizations such as Al Qaida, AIAI and others.

You might find it interesting the following inside information that you and many people there may not know. Information received at the end of 2004, was enough to link the CIA, BND, and Austrian intelligence services with elements of the former KLA and Islamic cells in Kosovo and Macedonia. The links were very intense in order to avoid any possible risk for the foreign soldiers. It was seen from the documentation that has went public in some cases, that KFOR knew about the cooperation among Al Qaeda, KLA veterans, representatives of certain Islamic communities, KPS, KPC, the media, and some UNMIK repts., as stated in the "Raska-Prizren Eparchy's paper, with the remark that teh American and German intelligence service continue with their secret games with Albanian extremists, that it is known that there are still Al Qaeda cells in Kosovo with whom they are making the agreement. "We give you independence, you don't touch our soldiers!". It is thought that if this does not happen, there will be a new program, mentioned by the Eparchy's paper the possibility of a new organized violence that will "surprise KFOR". I preached this 3-4 years ago but no body pays any attention. Mostly because of arrogance and stupidity.

You have amateur knowledge and either reading too much TV guides or doing searches on the internet trying to find sources that fits your agenda. I WILL NOT let it happen......get used to it......

Tom


38 posted on 01/06/2006 12:30:41 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

So, Hoplite what do you want to know about Bosnia? I'll fill you in and get you up to speed. You have no idea of the truth because your mind is not open to truth. You have a biased opinion for one reason or another.......but it's not credible.

Childish taunts....?? this is your style since 2000...I've read a lot of your posts by accident, and they are all the same. My Milieu is the entire Balkan theatre. What do you want to know rookie.

Instead of "scoring my efforts a failure", be more specific, I challenge you to provide facts to dispute anything I posted. Otherwise, your score has absolutely no basis or credible significance.........You seem to have a high regard for your info which is completly off track. Give me specifics or facts........

You are the one doing the insulting mostly with no facts....give me facts....not a general "scoring"....which means nothing.

:)), opps, maybe I did throw some Insults your way....:)) Oh well, it builds character........you can handle it. But still no facts back......come on, don't disappoint me.

Did you know, as a matter of fact, that the U.S. and UK government has tried to disguise and even suppress evidence of any links to the terrorist buildup in and around Bosnia. In addition, sources have indicated that any "All American" official that even thought about questioning this policy was "corrected" in some way or another. There are also clear links with the terrorist in Bosnia to the bombings in London, Madrid and U.S. As a matter of fact unconfirmed information also states that Musab al Zarqawi may work in Bosnia to conduct WMD attacks in Europe. Bosnia is the key to controlling Jihadist movements in Europe. The US and UK needs to cut the shit out and get rid of the pro-Jihadist leaders from Bosnia and stop the political correctness which it has adopted......or else the bombs will start soon...You have a who's who in Bosnia. For example Abu El Maali....who knows Atmani....linked to GIA.....(France comes to mind), but you wouldn't know that. Oh, remember the Al Haramain....? Well in some areas they changed their name to "Vazir"......go figure.

You are out of your league here...don't even try......

Tom


39 posted on 01/06/2006 12:55:24 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite
According to Holbrooke, the KLA and Al Qaeda have links. It's very simple. He's asked if they have links and he replies, "Yes".

You then go on to talk as if those "links" were simply the KLA telling Bin Laden to take a hike. Well, Holbrooke is OBVIOUSLY talking about links that are far more extensive and serious than being told to "go away".

Poor Hoplite.
40 posted on 01/06/2006 6:22:38 AM PST by infidel_and_proud
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To: infidel_and_proud
Well, Holbrooke is OBVIOUSLY talking about links that are far more extensive and serious than being told to "go away".

Yeah, obviously.

As shown by his full answer, which deals exclusively with Bosnia.

41 posted on 01/06/2006 11:31:00 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
O.K. Hoplite, one more time, and just for you.

He's asked a question. A question that is rather simple.

He's asked if he knew of the links between Al Qaeda and the KLA and also with Bosnia.

He doesn't reply:

"There are no links between the KLA and Al Qaeda because the KLA leadership told the AQ to "take a hike"" does he?

Instead he replies, "YES"

What follows is called a period.

He then expands on the links between Bosnia and Al Qaeda.

It's all rather simple really.

1) He confirmed that the KLA and Al Qaeda have links.

2) He also confirmed that Bosnia and Al Qaeda also have links.

3) He waxed lyrical on the situation in Bosnia.

There, it wasn't too bad now was it?
42 posted on 01/06/2006 9:27:39 PM PST by infidel_and_proud
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To: infidel_and_proud
Here's the State Department's web site for their annual Country Reports on Terrorism. You can find archival reports from 1996 through the latest report from 2004.

I know it's asking a lot, but you'd do well to familiarize yourself with the sections on Albania and Kosovo, when they appear, so you're not stuck mindlessly repeating your post as if it were some sort of mantra.

Consider the following from a briefing given in 2002 by General Pace, the Vice Chairman of the JCS:

Mr. General, my name is Miroslav Lozansky (sp). I am military correspondent from Belgrade, Yugoslav daily Politika. My first question is, do you have any fact about al Qaeda group in Bosnia, and maybe in Kosovo? And second question is, after Iraq, who is next?

Gen Pace: The first answer is no.

Well, there you have it. The JCS are telling us that as of 2002, we don't have any facts about Al Qaeda in either Bosnia or Kosovo, so if you wish to continue throwing your out of context interpretation of Holbrooke's answer around, simply imagine that I've responded by repeating General Pace's answer as given above, and you can go on ad infinitum happily all by your little lonesome.

43 posted on 01/07/2006 4:57:59 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: infidel_and_proud
[Foreign Exchange with Fareed Zakaria, December 23, 2005, interviewing UK author Nafeez Ahmed]

[...] Fareed Zakaria: But we’ve stopped for a long time, right; the United States and Britain have for years now been actively opposing Al Qaeda, but they--they still continue, right. But you’re saying we created a Frankenstein’s monster?

Nafeez Ahmed: I’m saying something worse; I’m saying that many ties with--with the Mujahideen have actually continued into the--into the post-Cold War period in--in different forms. We didn’t just completely disconnect ourselves after the collapse of the Soviet Union and there are many examples to this I discuss in the book ["The War on Truth"]. The example in the Balkans; it’s been confirmed from the official Dutch inquiry on the--Srebrenica Report--that showed that the Pentagon had arranged the flight of--of Mujahideen into--into the Bosnian conflict, obviously to--to move the conflict in a certain direction. Now whatever the--the interests were that were behind that whether they were sincere intentions or not that was a big mistake; in the end Bosnia became what has been described as a safe-haven for terrorists and has been--and has--within Europe itself, you know there is--Bosnia has become a problem. And again, with--in the Balkans…[....]

http://foreignexchange.tv/?q=node/865

44 posted on 01/07/2006 1:42:22 PM PST by Dragonfly
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To: Hoplite
Good to see that, at last, you're acknowledging that a "YES" answer to a question means "YES" and not "NO".

Congratulations, Hoplite.

Progress.
45 posted on 01/07/2006 8:49:17 PM PST by infidel_and_proud
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To: Hoplite

IMO, the question of whether any connections with Al Qaeda exist are irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether there are any with Al Qaeda per se. The fact remains: Islamist terrorists HAVE BEEN and ARE present in the Balkans. Whether they're from Al Qaeda or not is not the point, really. I see no difference between Al Qaeda and any other Islamofascist group bent on murdering innocent people around the world.


46 posted on 01/13/2006 4:25:44 PM PST by Banat ("You've got two empty 'alves of coconut, and you're banging 'em together!")
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To: Banat
Ah, but it is relevant.

Which is why some Serbs and others are trying so damned hard to tie both the Bosnians and Albanians to Al Qaeda, as opposed to Hizallah or Hamas.

47 posted on 01/14/2006 5:46:41 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Still, contacts between certain Islamic groups (not necessarily terrorist, but extremist, nontheless) in Bosnia and the Middle East do exist. Just last year the SFOR/EUFOR uncovered and shut down a few Islamic "charity" org's in BiH -- precisely because of these links.

These claims do not come exclusively from Serbian sources.

48 posted on 01/14/2006 6:22:17 PM PST by Banat ("You've got two empty 'alves of coconut, and you're banging 'em together!")
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To: Banat
If it's charities linked to terrorist groups, they get shut down, as you noted.

If it's terrorist training camps, EUFOR investigates, like NATO did before it, as noted in your link.

Either way, Bosnia isn't the haven for terrorists some are attempting to make it out to be.

49 posted on 01/14/2006 6:44:08 PM PST by Hoplite
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