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Bush Listens to Suggestions on Iraq
AP ^ | January 5, 2006 | JENNIFER LOVEN,

Posted on 01/05/2006 8:27:36 AM PST by Howlin

President Bush promised to "take to heart" suggestions on Iraq he heard Thursday from former secretaries of defense and state who have disagreed with his approach there.

But Bush offered no evidence he plans any significant changes in strategy.

The president joined Gen. George Casey, the top American commander in Iraq, and Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. ambassador in Baghdad, to give a detailed briefing on Iraq to more than a dozen foreign policy leaders from previous administrations, split nearly evenly between Democrat and Republican. Current Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld also helped update the former secretaries.

The White House's hope was that the prominent figures — many of whom have publicly opposed Bush on Iraq — would be persuaded by the president's argument that he has what he called a "dual-track strategy for victory," and they would then spread the word.

With the White House also sometimes criticized for taking in too few outside opinions, the session wasn't designed for administration officials to do all the talking. In his brief remarks to reporters afterward, Bush emphasized the portion of the meeting in which the former secretaries offered "their concerns, their suggestions about the way forward."

"Not everybody around this table agreed with my decision to go into Iraq. I fully understand that," the president said, sitting at a long table in the Roosevelt Room with his guests arrayed silently around him. "But these are good solid Americans who understand that we've got to succeed now that we're there. I'm most grateful for the suggestions they've given. I take to heart the advice."

The president then offered a quick summation of his strategy in Iraq that, while not getting into detail, appeared unchanged.

"On the one hand, we will work to have a political process that says to all Iraqis, the future belongs to you. On the other hand, we'll continue to work on the security situation there," Bush said. "We're making darn good progress."

The unusual gathering continues an aggressive public relations push by the president that began last month. The White House hosted similar briefings for several groups of Congress members, including Democrats sympathetic to Bush's approach in Iraq.

The president also delivered a series of high-profile speeches, including one delivered from the Oval Office in prime time, in which he offered the public a more candid assessment of the situation in Iraq and acknowledged some early missteps.

As the year drew to a close, Bush saw his record-low poll numbers begin to rebound slightly.

Among those at the meeting Thursday were several former Clinton administration officials: Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and defense secretaries William Cohen and William Perry. Perry helped develop Sen. John Kerry's foreign policy positions during the Massachusetts Democrat's campaign against Bush last year.

The others from previous Democratic administrations were Harold Brown, defense secretary under former President Carter, and Robert McNamara, the Vietnam-era Pentagon chief under presidents Kennedy and Johnson.

Those from Republican administrations were Colin Powell, Rice's predecessor under Bush; former secretaries of state James A. Baker III, Lawrence Eagleburger, Alexander Haig and George Shultz; and former defense secretaries Frank Carlucci, James Schlesinger and Melvin Laird.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; iraq; secdef; secstate

1 posted on 01/05/2006 8:27:38 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin

Crimeny. I certainly hope he doesn't listen to THOSE losers. They are HALF the reason we're where we are today in this country.


2 posted on 01/05/2006 8:28:52 AM PST by Peach
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To: Howlin


3 posted on 01/05/2006 8:28:53 AM PST by Howlin (Defeatism may have its partisan uses, but it is not justified by the facts. - GWB, 12/18/05)
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To: Peach

I don't think it quite went that way...........LOL.


4 posted on 01/05/2006 8:29:23 AM PST by Howlin (Defeatism may have its partisan uses, but it is not justified by the facts. - GWB, 12/18/05)
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To: Howlin

I'm sure it didn't :-)


5 posted on 01/05/2006 8:30:56 AM PST by Peach
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To: Peach

Oh to be a fly on that wall!


6 posted on 01/05/2006 8:32:25 AM PST by sweet_diane (I support TheShoulder dot org)
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To: Howlin
I recently read a blog speculation that provided an intresting analysis. What if Bush is actually asking these graybeards about how to handle IRAN, not Iraq? Even lefties and so-called policy "realists" know that we cannot allow the mullahs to get nukes.

By getting agreement from these "wise men" (cough, cough) on an aggressive course of action to destroy Iran's nuclear program, Bush would immunize himself from Dem and media charges that he is just a hot-headed cowboy.

7 posted on 01/05/2006 8:33:03 AM PST by inkling
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To: Peach

Having MacNamara there was a bad decision given the Democrats mantra that Iraq is another 'Vietnam'. MacNamara's biographical mea culpa and age make his advice of questionable value. Having Albright there was just a waste of space and glazed donuts.


8 posted on 01/05/2006 8:35:14 AM PST by Spok (Est omnis de civilitate.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: diznay4evr

Interestingly, Newsweek this week has an article showing the CIA assessments of Iraq in 2002 and it supports the Bush administration so much that I was quite surprised they printed the article.

The CIA's assessment was that Iraq was quite possibly involved in 9/11 planning and that Al Qaeda did indeed have long term contacts and relationships with Iraq, most specifically with regard to weapons of mass destruction development.


10 posted on 01/05/2006 8:39:40 AM PST by Peach
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To: Howlin
""Not everybody around this table agreed with my decision to go into Iraq."

What choice did President Bush have? If these damn brain dead jacka@@ would just think for a change instead of the typical RAT talking points they would see why. What was their answer? Just sit back and once the entire region was aligned, then it would make 9/11 small in comparison to what would have happened to us.
11 posted on 01/05/2006 8:40:42 AM PST by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: Spok

Albright amazes me. The most incompetent individual to attain such position. Without looks, brains or charisma, rises to the level of foreign policy expert.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????


12 posted on 01/05/2006 8:41:58 AM PST by JmyBryan
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To: inkling

That seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. That wacky MacNamara is an avowed anti-nuke nut, and I'm sure Bush can get him to sign on to a resolution that Iran shall not have nuclear weapons. Of course, he's also a pacifist, so he wouldn't go so far as to support any real action to prevent it. Seriously, how was that guy of Sec of Defense?


13 posted on 01/05/2006 8:43:29 AM PST by Cyclopean Squid (Greatness is not appreciated until it is gone)
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To: JmyBryan

"Without looks, brains or charisma, rises to the level of foreign policy expert."

Huge DNC contributor, making her fully qualified in the judgment of WJC. Just be grateful that Monica didn't get the job of chairing the Federal Reserve.


14 posted on 01/05/2006 8:46:35 AM PST by Spok (Est omnis de civilitate.)
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To: Howlin

Oh, to know who Condi was look at...


15 posted on 01/05/2006 8:46:52 AM PST by gov_bean_ counter (It is easy to call for a pi$$ing contest when you aren't going to be in the line of fire.)
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To: Peach

> Crimeny. I certainly hope he doesn't listen to THOSE losers.

I suspect it was more a case of wanting to call several of
them on the carpet and lay down the law, but he wanted to
give them some cover by making it look like a summit.

Too subtle by half for some of these idiots.


16 posted on 01/05/2006 8:47:15 AM PST by Boundless
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To: Boundless

I should have put a sarcasm tag after that comment because I am pretty certain the president knows not to actually follow any advice those has-been cretins might have to offer.


17 posted on 01/05/2006 8:49:08 AM PST by Peach
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To: diznay4evr

Good points.


18 posted on 01/05/2006 8:50:00 AM PST by Howlin (Defeatism may have its partisan uses, but it is not justified by the facts. - GWB, 12/18/05)
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To: diznay4evr

Saddam's chambers of horrors

By MARGARET WENTE
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1419920/posts
Toronto Globe and Mail Saturday, November 23, 2002

Abu Ghraib, 30 kilometres west of Baghdad, is Iraq's biggest prison. Until recently, it held perhaps 50,000 people, perhaps more. No one knows for sure. No one knows how many people were taken there through the years and never came out.

For a generation, Abu Ghraib was the centrepiece of Saddam Hussein's reign of torture and death. Yahya al-Jaiyashy is one of the survivors.

Mr. Jaiyashy is an animated, bearded man of 49 whose words can scarcely keep up with the torrent of his memories. Today he lives in Toronto with his second wife, Sahar. This week, he sat down with me to relate his story. With him were his wife, a lovely Iraqi woman in her mid-30s, and a friend, Haithem al-Hassan, who helped me with Mr. Jaiyashy's mixture of Arabic and rapid English.

"Nineteen seventy-seven was the first time I went to jail," he says. "I was not tortured that much."

He was in his mid-20s then, from an intellectual family that lived in a town south of Baghdad. He had been a student of Islamic history, language and religion in the holy city of Najaf, but was forced to quit his studies after he refused to join the ruling Ba'ath party. His ambition was to write books that would show how Islam could open itself up to modernism.

In Saddam's Iraq, this was a dangerous occupation, especially for a Shiite. Shia Muslims are the majority in Iraq, but Saddam and his inner circle are Sunni. Many Shiites were under suspicion as enemies of the state.

"My father was scared for me," says Mr. Jaiyashy. " 'You know how dangerous this regime is,' he told me. 'You know how many people they kill.' "

Mr. Jaiyashy continued his studies on his own. But, eventually, he was picked up, along with a dozen acquaintances who had been involved in political activity against the regime. They were sent to Abu Ghraib. The others did not get off as lightly as he did. One was killed by immersion into a vat of acid. Ten others, he recalls, were put into a room and torn apart by wild dogs. Several prominent religious leaders were also executed. One was a university dean, someone Mr. Jaiyashy remembers as "a great man." They drove a nail through his skull.

For three decades, the most vicious war Saddam has waged has been the one against his own people. Iraq's most devastating weapon of mass destruction is Saddam himself. And the most powerful case for regime change is their suffering.

Sometimes, it is almost impossible to believe the accounts of people who survived Saddam's chamber of horrors. They seem like twisted nightmares, or perhaps crude propaganda. But there are too many survivors who have escaped Iraq, too many credible witnesses. And Mr. Jaiyashy's story, horrible as it is, is not unusual.

Saddam personally enjoyed inflicting torture in the early years of his career, and he has modelled his police state after that of his hero, Stalin. According to Kenneth Pollack, a leading U.S. expert on Iraq, the regime employs as many as half a million people in its various intelligence, security and police organizations. Hundreds of thousands of others serve as informants. Neighbour is encouraged to inform on neighbour, children on their parents. Saddam has made Iraq into a self-policing totalitarian state, where everyone is afraid of everybody else.

"Being in Iraq is like creeping around inside someone else's migraine," says veteran BBC correspondent John Sweeney. "The fear is so omnipresent, you could almost eat it."

To Stalin's methods of arbitrary arrests and forced confessions, Saddam has added an element of sadism: the torture of children to extract information from their parents.

In northern Iraq -- the only place in the country where people can speak relatively freely -- Mr. Sweeney interviewed several people who had direct experience of child torture. He also met one of the victims -- a four-year-old girl, the daughter of a man who had worked for Saddam's psychopathic son Uday. When the man fell under suspicion, he fled to the Kurdish safe haven in the north. The police came for his wife and tortured her to reveal his whereabouts; when she didn't break, they took his daughter and crushed her feet. She was 2 then. Today, she wears metal braces on her legs, and can only hobble.

"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force confessions from their parents and grandparents," writes Mr. Pollack in his new book, The Threatening Storm. "This is a regime that will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge vats of acid. . . .

"This is a regime that practises systematic rape against the female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a man's wife, daughter or other female relative and repeatedly rape her in front of him." And if he has fled the country, it will send him the video.

After nearly two years in prison, Mr. Jaiyashy was released and sent to do military service in the north. Then the security police decided to round up the followers of one of the executed clerics. In 1980, Mr. Jaiyashy was arrested again, along with 20 friends, and taken to a military prison. He was interrogated about criticisms he was supposed to have made of the regime, and urged to sign a confession. During one session, his wrists were tied to a ceiling fan. Then they turned on the fan. Then they added weights onto his body and did it again. Then somebody climbed on him to add more weight. "It was 20 minutes, but it seemed like 20 years," he recalls.

He was beaten with a water hose filled with stones. When he passed out, he was shocked back into consciousness with an electric cable. They hung him by his legs, pulled out a fingernail with pliers, and drove an electric drill through his foot.

Mr. Jaiyashy took off his right shoe and sock to show me his foot. It is grotesquely mutilated, with a huge swelling over the arch. There is an Amnesty International report on human-rights abuses in Iraq with a photo of a mutilated foot that looks identical to his. The baby finger on his left hand is also mutilated.

He didn't sign the confession. He knew that, if he did, they would eventually kill him.

They put him in solitary confinement, in a cell measuring two metres by two and a half, without windows or light. Every few weeks, they would bring him the confession again, but he refused to sign. He stayed there for a year.

In 1981, he was sent to trial, where he persuaded a sympathetic judge not to impose the death sentence. He got 10 years instead, and was sent back to Abu Ghraib. "They put me in a cell with 50 people. It was three and a half by three and a half metres. Some stood, some sat. They took turns."

There was a small window in the cell, with a view of a tree. It was the only living thing the prisoners could see. The tree was cut down. There were informants in the cells and, every morning, guards would come and take someone and beat him till he died. "This is your breakfast!" they would say.

Mr. Jaiyashy spent the next six years in that cell. His parents were told he was dead.

Abu Ghraib contained many intellectuals and professional people. Among them was the scientist Hussein Shahristani, a University of Toronto alumnus who became a leading nuclear scientist in Iraq. He was imprisoned after he refused to work on Saddam's nuclear program. He spent 10 years in Abu Ghraib, most of them in solitary confinement, until he escaped in 1991.

Saddam has reduced his people to abject poverty. He wiped out families, villages, cities and cultures, and drove four million people into exile. He killed between 100,000 and 200,000 Kurds. He killed as many as 300,000 Shiites in the uprising after the Persian Gulf war. He killed or displaced 200,000 of the 250,000 marsh Arabs who had created a unique, centuries-old culture in the south. He drained the marshes, an environmental treasure, and turned them into a desert.

In a recent Frontline documentary, a woman who fled Iraq recounted how she and others had been forced to witness the public beheadings of 15 women who had been rounded up for prostitution and other crimes against the state. One of the women was a doctor who had been misreported as speaking against the regime. "They put her head in a trash can," she said.

In 1987, Mr. Jaiyashy and a thousand other inmates were transferred to an outdoor prison camp. There, they were allowed a visit with their relatives, so long as they said nothing of their lives in prison. Mr. Jaiyashy's parents came, hoping he might still be alive. He remembers the day all the families came. "There was so much crying. We called it the crying day."

In 1989, he was finally released from prison. Then came the gulf war and, after that, the uprising, which he joined. It was quickly crushed. He fled with 150,000 refugees toward the Saudi border. But the Saudis didn't want them. "They are Wahhabis," he says. "They consider the Shia as infidels." The United Nations set up a refugee camp, where Mr. Jaiyashy spent the next six years. He began to paint and write again.

Finally, he was accepted as an immigrant to Canada. He arrived in Toronto in 1996, and is now a Canadian citizen.

Mr. Jaiyashy has a deep sense of gratitude toward his adoptive country. Canada, he says, has given him back his freedom and his dignity. He paints prolifically, and has taken courses at the art college, and is the author of three plays about the Saddam regime. He makes his living stocking shelves in a fabric store. "I'm a porter," he says. "No problem. I'm happy."

But Saddam's spies are everywhere. After one of his plays was produced here, his father was imprisoned. His first wife and three children are still in Iraq. He hasn't seen them since his youngest, now 12, was a baby. He talks with them on the phone from time to time, but it is very dangerous. One of his brothers is in Jordan, another still in Iraq.

Sahar, his second wife, is soft-spoken. She covers her head and dresses modestly, without makeup. Her face is unlined. She arrived in Canada with her two daughters the same year as Mr. Jaiyashy; they were introduced by friends.

She, too, has a story. I learned only the smallest part of it. "I was a widow," she told me. "My husband was a doctor in Iraq. He wanted to continue his education and have a specialty. But they didn't allow him. He deserted the military service to continue his education on his own. They beat him till he died."

Today, her daughters are in high school and she teaches at a daycare centre. Her new husband pushed her to study hard here. "ESL, ESL," she says affectionately.

Like many Iraqis, they are conflicted about the prospect of war. They want Saddam gone. But they do not want more harm inflicted on their country. "I want Saddam gone -- only him," says Mr. Jaiyashy.

A few weeks ago, Saddam threw open the doors of Abu Ghraib and freed the prisoners there. Many families rejoiced, and many others, who did not find their loved ones, mounted a brief, unheard-of protest against the regime. The prison is a ghost camp now. Nothing is left but piles of human excrement that cake the razor wire.

Saddam's Iraq is a rebuke to anyone who may doubt that absolute evil dwells among us. No one has put it better than Mr. Sweeney, the BBC reporter. "When I hear the word Iraq, I hear a tortured child screaming."


19 posted on 01/05/2006 8:52:45 AM PST by Valin (Purple Fingers Rule!)
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To: gov_bean_ counter

It was a "target rich" environment, that's for sure.


20 posted on 01/05/2006 8:54:00 AM PST by Howlin (Defeatism may have its partisan uses, but it is not justified by the facts. - GWB, 12/18/05)
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To: inkling
"I recently read a blog speculation that provided an interesting analysis. What if Bush is actually asking these graybeards about how to handle IRAN, not Iraq? Even lefties and so-called policy "realists" know that we cannot allow the mullahs to get nukes. "

This was the first thing that crossed my mind too. This was a council of war not just some "round table" to appease the media. When, not IF, we take care of the iranian problem were going to have to present a united front.
21 posted on 01/05/2006 8:56:10 AM PST by Kakaze (I'm now a single issue voter.....exterminate Al Quaida)
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To: Howlin
It seems to say...

You really aren't that stupid, are you?

22 posted on 01/05/2006 8:57:00 AM PST by gov_bean_ counter (It is easy to call for a pi$$ing contest when you aren't going to be in the line of fire.)
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To: Howlin
Crap. Here we go again. Albright pulls on her girdle and waddles into the spotlight. Sparks will fly. From her pantyhose, that is. Her solution? From the files of Albright, "Close the gates! CLOSE the gates!!"

*sigh* and *swallow the bile*

23 posted on 01/05/2006 8:57:42 AM PST by small voice in the wilderness (Make high definition tv fun. Aggravate 'em until their heads explode.)
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To: gov_bean_ counter

LOL.....now that you mention it, yes, it does.

I'm trying to see who she might have been looking at, but my old eyes aren't that good. Maybe we'll see a LARGER picture later today.


24 posted on 01/05/2006 8:59:13 AM PST by Howlin (Defeatism may have its partisan uses, but it is not justified by the facts. - GWB, 12/18/05)
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To: diznay4evr

good point about SadDams son's. They seemingly were more psychotic than their dear ole dad..


25 posted on 01/05/2006 8:59:50 AM PST by groovejedi
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To: small voice in the wilderness

I once saw her make a short speech before she boarded a cargo plane to fly to Africa to bring back the bodies of Americans killed by the embassy bombings.

After she spoke, she turned and started up the steps into the plane; as she crawled into the entrance to the plane, the entire world got a great shot of her Knee Highs. UGH.


26 posted on 01/05/2006 9:00:37 AM PST by Howlin (Defeatism may have its partisan uses, but it is not justified by the facts. - GWB, 12/18/05)
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To: Valin
There is an Amnesty International report on human-rights abuses in Iraq with a photo of a mutilated foot that looks identical to his.

Amnesty International? I remember when they were on the side of the good guys.

27 posted on 01/05/2006 9:17:20 AM PST by capydick
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To: Peach

> I should have put a sarcasm tag after that comment ...

Hardly necessary.

I sense the silent hand of Rove at work here.
The "delegates" won't even know how they've been co-opted.


28 posted on 01/05/2006 9:17:22 AM PST by Boundless
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To: Howlin

Check out "Crabby Appleton" Albright in the first picture. What an intellectual scag!


29 posted on 01/05/2006 9:19:43 AM PST by zook
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To: inkling

That is what I was thinking as well. But he also can go back and say well I consulted with dems and repub.


30 posted on 01/05/2006 9:53:50 AM PST by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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