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Morgan StanleyFires Male StaffersFor Strip-Club Trip
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ^ | January 5, 2006; Page C3 | RANDALL SMITH

Posted on 01/05/2006 9:48:16 PM PST by MRMEAN

NEW YORK -- Morgan Stanley has fired a stock-research analyst and three sales staffers in the Wall Street firm's institutional-stock division after they accompanied one or more clients on a visit to an adult-entertainment club, according to people familiar with the matter.

The firing of the staffers, all men, sent a message that exclusionary, male-only activities won't be tolerated at the firm, according to people familiar with the matter. In mid-2004, Morgan Stanley agreed to pay $54 million to settle a gender-discrimination case. As part of the settlement, Morgan Stanley denied wrongdoing but agreed to take additional steps to promote diversity and conduct antidiscrimination training.

One of the complaints in the gender-discrimination case brought by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission was that women in the same institutional-stock division had been improperly excluded from certain client-related activities such as male-only golf outings and strip-club visits.

The EEOC complaint in 2001 followed an individual complaint filed with the EEOC in 1998 by a former institutional-stock saleswoman, Allison Schieffelin, who was fired in 2000. She had charged that gender discrimination caused her not to be promoted to managing director.

...

In the recent episode, the four fired employees were all technology-industry specialists who made the strip-club visit during free time while they were attending a three-day Morgan Stanley conference for tech investors in early November at the Arizona Biltmore Resort & Spa in Phoenix.

The firm has a policy against participation in an exclusionary event while on company business, people familiar with the firm said. One rule specifically bars attending adult-entertainment establishments in connection with company business. One or more clients were present at the Arizona establishment, one person familiar with the matter said.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: diversity; eeoc; femininizationalert; fired; morganstanley; singlesex; workplace
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1 posted on 01/05/2006 9:48:17 PM PST by MRMEAN
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To: MRMEAN
a stock-research analyst and three sales staffers

You'd think these guys know better than to even think about doing stuff like this in this day & age.

2 posted on 01/05/2006 9:49:59 PM PST by Lester Moore (The headwaters of the islamic river of death and hate are in Saudi Arabia.)
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To: MRMEAN

Ouuuuuuuuuuuuuch...in the world of sales, a LOT of Purchase Orders are signed after a trip to the strip club.


3 posted on 01/05/2006 9:50:37 PM PST by xrp (My current list of worshippers: MNJohnnie)
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To: MRMEAN

Should have taken the clients to see "Brokeback Mountain". The employees would have gotten promotions. Sheesh.


4 posted on 01/05/2006 9:52:04 PM PST by Lawgvr1955 (You can never have too much cowbell !!)
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To: MRMEAN
exclusionary, male-only activities won't be tolerated at the firm

If I read the story correctly, there were some naked chicks involved, too.

So, no problem.

5 posted on 01/05/2006 9:52:07 PM PST by JennysCool (Non-Y2K-Compliant)
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To: MRMEAN
OK, so let's see some women staffers get fired for a trip to Chippendale's. (...or gay staffers, it doesn't matter in principle.)

Brings to mind the Claire Swire debacle of yesteryear.

Cheers!

6 posted on 01/05/2006 9:52:18 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Lester Moore

They beleive the porn thing is fully accepted and cool now. They are just being cutting edge metrosexuals; following the herd over the cliff and all that.


7 posted on 01/05/2006 9:53:23 PM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: Lester Moore; grey_whiskers; MRMEAN
Oh PUH-LEEZE! If I had a dollar for every time I went out with clients to the Hialeah Center of the Performing Arts (aka Treasure Island) when I was in banking...

Wait a second, I did!

Feminazis have ruined maleness. There is NO SUCH THING as SEXUAL HARASSMENT. If you can't take the heat, GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN WOMEN!

8 posted on 01/05/2006 9:55:07 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: MRMEAN
The firing of the staffers, all men, sent a message that exclusionary, male-only activities won't be tolerated at the firm, according to people familiar with the matter.

They weren't fired for inappropriate, immoral behavior but because they were exclusionary?!?! Oh! Wait! Of course! For liberals being exclusionary IS inappropriate and immoral.

9 posted on 01/05/2006 9:58:26 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Clemenza
You missed my sarcasm, didn't you?

I am against what the men did on moral grounds, but NOT on PC grounds.

P.S. Try doing a Google on "Claire Swire". It's a hoot.

Cheers!

10 posted on 01/05/2006 9:58:45 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: MRMEAN

"....the four fired employees were all technology-industry specialists who made the strip-club visit during free time while they were attending a three-day Morgan Stanley conference"

PC running amok..


11 posted on 01/05/2006 9:58:57 PM PST by RTINSC (Being Offended is the Natural Consequence of Leaving Your Home...)
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To: little jeremiah

ping


12 posted on 01/05/2006 9:59:07 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MRMEAN

Good grief! Next time invite the femi nazis along.


13 posted on 01/05/2006 9:59:59 PM PST by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: grey_whiskers

I got your sarcasm. I was referring to the douchebag mentality of such a decision.


14 posted on 01/05/2006 10:01:54 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: MRMEAN

It is an outrage.

What a stupid idea.


15 posted on 01/05/2006 10:02:05 PM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: JennysCool

hehehehehehehe

LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!

Yeah, what is the problem here?


16 posted on 01/05/2006 10:03:07 PM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: MRMEAN; All

.

...The man who predicted the 9/11 Attacks 8 years ahead of time,

...proceeded to save almost 3,000 Morgan Stanley Employees...

...by getting them out of the World Trade Center's Tower II...

...before it came crashing down on...


.......him:



9/11 Lifesaving Hero RICK RESCORLA, R.I.P.

http://RickRescorla.com

http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24361

.


17 posted on 01/05/2006 10:16:21 PM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: MRMEAN
One of the complaints in the gender-discrimination case brought by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission was that women in the same institutional-stock division had been improperly excluded from certain client-related activities such as male-only golf outings and strip-club visits.

First thing that comes to mind is: learn to golf, sweeties.

Secondly, I've been very successful in sales for 20 years...mostly in male-dominated fields. My clients have always known I won't take them to strip clubs (of course); I spend my time trying to help them make more money, instead.

Who do you think wins in the long run? Perhaps if the ladies would spend more time selling and less time whining, they would be more successful.

18 posted on 01/05/2006 10:16:35 PM PST by garandgal
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To: metmom
"They weren't fired for inappropriate, immoral behavior but because they were exclusionary?!?! Oh! Wait! Of course! For liberals being exclusionary IS inappropriate and immoral."

I had a girlfriend who worked with one of the big five accounting firms in the eighties.

She was articling and every Friday the male articling staff left the office at 3:00 on Friday for the "March to the Arch", (a local strip club). No girls allowed and if a female employee went along she could be expected to be invited to the senior partners office on Monday morning.

Virtually all the male students were frat boys and the march was their way of old boy networking, a way of cutting off the girls from the getting into the partnership career path.

Morality has nothing to do about this story.
19 posted on 01/05/2006 10:16:59 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: Clemenza
There is NO SUCH THING as SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

Why is it that when a man talks dirty to a woman, it's sexual harassment, but when a woman talks dirty to a man, it's $4.99 a minute?

Mark

20 posted on 01/05/2006 10:19:18 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: beaver fever
Virtually all the male students were frat boys and the march was their way of old boy networking, a way of cutting off the girls from the getting into the partnership career path.

Tough sh-t sweetheart. If you don't like it, learn how to bake.

21 posted on 01/05/2006 10:19:54 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: MarkL

BWAHAAA!


22 posted on 01/05/2006 10:20:13 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: metmom
Oh! Wait! Of course! For liberals being exclusionary IS inappropriate and immoral.

Actually, women do go to strip bars these days, so it couldn't have been exclusionary... The article doesn't even say if any female employees were there, and if so, if they were invited to go.

And since stipping is a constitutionally protected right (`cause the SCOTUS says so), Morgan Stanley is actually trying to abridge the Constitutional rights of the strippers! And they're trying to keep the poor stripping college students from being able to make a living, by firing the staffers!

I think that the staffers should sue their ex-employer for firing them for supporting the civil rights of the strippers!

Mark

23 posted on 01/05/2006 10:23:54 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: beaver fever

thanks Beav.....at least one sound opinion among the Neanderthals......


24 posted on 01/05/2006 10:24:39 PM PST by cherry
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To: Clemenza

Blow it out your a** and don't respond to me again.

Have you ever worked with a company where a clique of second rate employees went out the way to make you look bad with the boss? I have and the leader of the group was an ex officer in the Russian army who was pi**ed because he had his land holdings in the Ukraine confiscated after the fall of the USSR. He was a supreme ass kisser. Your responce indicates to me that you have no problem with ass kissers.

I've read a few of your posts and thought you were quite reasonable.

I've changed my you are a complete idiot.


25 posted on 01/05/2006 10:28:10 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: MRMEAN

Just a guess...the Robert "Lap Dunce" McCormick thing might have had something to do with these guys getting fired. Even if the sexual-harassment thing weren't a potential problem, Morgan Stanley almost certainly has no desire to be the next firm to get clowned by the Daily News and the Post because some of their guys got drunk and frisky and ran up a five or six-digit tab in the champagne room.


26 posted on 01/05/2006 10:34:10 PM PST by RichInOC ("There is no sex in the champagne room. Oh, there's champagne, but you don't want champagne...")
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To: MRMEAN
"One of the complaints in the gender-discrimination case...was that women...had been...excluded from certain client-related activities such as...strip-club visits."

Okay. Big deal. Take 'em along. Let 'em get a lapdance or two--as long as they pay for it themselves.

27 posted on 01/05/2006 10:34:30 PM PST by Savage Beast (Why George W. Bush is a Great President in five words or less: 9/11 was never repeated.)
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To: MRMEAN
In the recent episode, the four fired employees were all technology-industry specialists who made the strip-club visit during free time while they were attending a three-day Morgan Stanley conference for tech investors in early November at the Arizona Biltmore Resort & Spa in Phoenix.

Morgan Stanley might have another wrongful termination suit on their hands. Many people in the IT field are friends with others in the field. This visit to the strip club was on their own time.

If the guys entertained clients there then I can see how they would be violating the new rules, but if they were just hanging out with a bunch of people then I don't see how that could be against the rules.

28 posted on 01/05/2006 10:34:51 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: beaver fever
Have you ever worked with a company where a clique of second rate employees went out the way to make you look bad with the boss? I have and the leader of the group was an ex officer in the Russian army who was pi**ed because he had his land holdings in the Ukraine confiscated after the fall of the USSR. He was a supreme ass kisser. Your responce indicates to me that you have no problem with ass kissers.

Non-sequitur. It has no bearing on what we were discussing, ie the oversensitivity of women in the workplace and their inability to accept the fact that men are men and that we don't want to change.

Anyone who surrounds themselves with ass kissers is bound to either fail due to their subordinates incompetance or wind up doing all of the work through micromanagement of said incompetants. Good managers see past the political BS and look for talented people. Bad managers, well, we've BOTH seen what happens to folks who are afraid of anyone smarter than them.

As far as your opinions of yours truly, if I had to worry about what others on a website or in the workplace thought of me, then I would not accomplish anything. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to ignore it.

BTW: I have NO problem with you on a personal level and my opinion hasn't changed.

29 posted on 01/05/2006 10:37:11 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: cherry

Your're quite welcome.

My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity.


30 posted on 01/05/2006 10:38:36 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: MarkL
Actually, women do go to strip bars these days, so it couldn't have been exclusionary.

Don't remind me. The only women who should be seen in a strip club should be working a pole or serving drinks.

31 posted on 01/05/2006 10:39:06 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: beaver fever
My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity.

Then you have a naive view of the world. Guys, unlike women, don't join sewing circles and talk about the latest Dr Phil book to bond and have a good time.

32 posted on 01/05/2006 10:40:51 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: beaver fever
My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity.

Apparently, the new definition of male maturity is unfettered gayness.

33 posted on 01/05/2006 10:44:25 PM PST by Junior_G
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To: saganite
You know, in all seriousness, that's exactly what they should have done. These guys who were going to a strip club on their own time should have invited all their female colleagues along, too. A simple yes or no for the record, and all that PC BS is rendered moot.

Another thought I had was that these men are being forced into the closet of heterosexuality. If they were four homosexuals who went to a "queer" bar, not a single repercussion, not a peep, they'd have gotten perks for being "diverse". Men need to stand up for themselves, for God's sakes!

p.s. I cringe when I hear grown men say "WE are pregnant" or a 49 yr.old mega success man say that his 4 yr.old son is his "best friend". Because they have so much in common?
Men need to use their own words again, and not the mommy words. "Use your words" is mommyspeak, as I am a woman and the mother of two grown sons. If either son ever came to me and told me he was pregnant, I'd smack him!
34 posted on 01/05/2006 10:45:25 PM PST by ishabibble (UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL)
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To: Savage Beast

Yeah, take 'em along next time . . . on Amature Night.


35 posted on 01/05/2006 10:46:53 PM PST by Petruchio ( ... .--. .- -.-- / .- -. -.. / -. . ..- - . .-. / .. .-.. .-.. . --. .- .-.. / .- .-.. .. . -. ...)
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To: MRMEAN

The women were most likely excluded because the guys were jealous of their hair and makeup.


36 posted on 01/05/2006 10:47:51 PM PST by WestVirginiaRebel (The Democratic Party-Jackass symbol, jackass leaders, jackass supporters.)
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To: ishabibble

I got smacked down by my mom and sister for using MAN words in discussing my ideal relationship. My father just grinned in approval. ;-)


37 posted on 01/05/2006 10:48:27 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: beaver fever

From what's been reported, they paid for the legal activities out of their own pocket.
I've never been a fan of strip clubs (I've got many better ways to waste money, such as cars and alcohol), but I have friends and clients who are addicted to them, for whatever reason.
What they did was legal and they paid out of their own pocket.
Unless there was a specific company policy dis-allowing this behavior on personal time I'd sue MWD asses off.
Scr*w Political correctness.


38 posted on 01/05/2006 10:49:28 PM PST by mikeybaby (long time lurker)
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To: Clemenza
"Non-sequitur. It has no bearing on what we were discussing, ie the oversensitivity of women in the workplace and their inability to accept the fact that men are men and that we don't want to change."

What I said was not a Non Seqitur. You might want to look it up since you don't know what a fallacy is. I suggest Aristotle's 'Sophici Elencis'.

The topic of the thread is old boy exclusionism and my remarks relate directly to that.

Also I was talking about the conduct of male articling students cutting their female colleagues out of the loop.

I've seen it myself and careerist frat boys are a bunch of pri**s who make their way through life because of a secret handshake.

Your sweetheart comment was insulting. Only Humphrey Bogart could pull that off. An you are definitely not as suave as Bogey.
39 posted on 01/05/2006 10:49:58 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: beaver fever

"My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity."


Clearly, you don't know much about men.


40 posted on 01/05/2006 10:51:42 PM PST by Poser (Willing to fight for oil)
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To: Junior_G

Grow up.

You must be one of those guys who thinks that a stripper wants to have sex with you because she smiled at you.

Stip clubs are boring.


41 posted on 01/05/2006 10:53:05 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: mikeybaby
"From what's been reported, they paid for the legal activities out of their own pocket."

They entertained clients which means they were representing the company. It doesn't matter that they did it on their own time and paid for it. In fact paying for it could be construed as a bribe. If you are on 'legitimate' company business the company picks up the bill. They paid themselves to cover their tracks because they knew Morgan Stanley would pull them on the carpet for it.

If a women did the same thing it would be considered enticement.
42 posted on 01/05/2006 10:58:00 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: Poser

Well I am a man.

Not some giddy pimple faced adolescent.

Here's some news for you. Strippers don't like men. The majority of them are lipstick lesbians who are in it for the money.

Hate to burst your bubble bubba.


43 posted on 01/05/2006 11:01:07 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: beaver fever

That was true maybe 10 or 15 years ago. The demographic has changed.


44 posted on 01/05/2006 11:03:27 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: Clemenza

Actually, there is such a thing as sexual harrassment, but the Feminists have it so watered down it doesn't mean anything anymore. And that's a shame.


45 posted on 01/05/2006 11:13:16 PM PST by Hildy (Spielberg spends his spare time memorializing the last Holocaust while working to justify the next.)
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To: Clemenza
Non-sequitur. It has no bearing on what we were discussing, ie the oversensitivity of women in the workplace and their inability to accept the fact that men are men and that we don't want to change.

Please see my 18, in case you missed it. Not all women want men to change...I'm perfectly happy with the status quo.

Keep it up boys, you make my job exceptionally easy.

Just kidding...I realized long ago that if I just work hard, try to do the best for my clients, and offer great customer service...I will have a good share of the business. The occasional batch of homemade cookies helps out, as well. So you see, I've stayed in the kitchen...and the boardroom.

46 posted on 01/05/2006 11:14:07 PM PST by garandgal
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To: garandgal

Please see my 18, in case you missed it. Not all women want men to change...I'm perfectly happy with the status quo.



Does that mean we can keep sitting around in our underwear eating chips and watching movies where stuff blows up?


47 posted on 01/05/2006 11:16:59 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: MRMEAN
I did my best sales in a strip club.

Funny thing is, I am not a salesman. :-)

48 posted on 01/05/2006 11:20:25 PM PST by Pylon (Remember boys, flies spread disease, so keep yours closed.)
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To: garandgal
Amen! Keep up the good attitude and you will conquer the world.

Its women like you who should be admired.

49 posted on 01/05/2006 11:23:26 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: JeffAtlanta

You are obviously trying to tag me with the metrosexual label.

At fifty three years of age I am well beyond naive.

What is naive is thinking that women take their clothes off in front of you for money because they like you.

Dr Phil???? The guy's a house plant, a phoney wellness Guru. I doubt very much that the good Dr has a degree in anything.


50 posted on 01/05/2006 11:23:37 PM PST by beaver fever
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