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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

( - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.

Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.

Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."

In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.

"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.

When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.

"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.

On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.

"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.

"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.

Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.

"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.

But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.

"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.

A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."

Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.

"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."

"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.

In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.

'He's a phony and a liar'

Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.

... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.

Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.

"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.

"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.

In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.

"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.

Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.

"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.

According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"

But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.

"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.

Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.

"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.

"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.

Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'

During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.

"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.

In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.

"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.

"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.

Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.

"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.

The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.

Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.

(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)

Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam

TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; abscam; anotherpurpleowie; cnsnews; exmarine; foundkerrysmedals; liar; murtha; murthamedals; phony; phonyandaliar; purpleheart; purplehearts
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To: paltz
Lets NOT go there, because the fact is, there are probably thousands of honorable, good men who's PH or other medal could be called into question. I don't here Murtha talking about his heroism, he hasn't written a book about it, they aren't producing a little movie about it, ala JF'n Kerry. Kerry and his camp were BEGGIN to be debunked.

Leave Murtha's past alone, unless it was criminal or something. We dont need to go there to refute what he has to say TODAY.

141 posted on 01/13/2006 2:17:57 PM PST by Paradox (What "tax cuts for the rich". They are paying more taxes now than ever!)
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To: paltz

Here we go again,

... same old shiite again,

... marchin' down the avenue,

... one more fake 'n then we're thru..........

Sound off!


142 posted on 01/13/2006 2:19:58 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: paltz

I wonder how many Purple Heart recipients requested them? I would imagine very few.

143 posted on 01/13/2006 2:22:13 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts


144 posted on 01/13/2006 2:24:43 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: paltz

Murtha and Kerry, two peas in a pod.

145 posted on 01/13/2006 2:25:21 PM PST by Pragmatic_View
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To: kellynla

You know that I am one of your biggest freeper fans...

so, I have been really thinking about this..and my first instinct was to say, "NO..we don't want to go there"...'

then I saw your posts...and I thought, "why should WE be worried about these reports..,"

but, I think the only way this could be used at all...and not hurt the GOP..would be if he continues to say negative things about the military, re; do not join, etc.

Otherwise, we get caught up in the past...because he has a future that could find him in jail...he has possible bribery/fraud charges being brought against him...and there will already be sympathy, BUT if he uses his "veteran" status as an excuse NOT to be prosecuted...

There is the example of Duke Cunningham...AND this..that could be used...but, I think for now...we let him stink up his own room~

146 posted on 01/13/2006 2:27:40 PM PST by Txsleuth (Thank you to all that donated on the time more monthlies!!)
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To: tumblindice

Actually, LBJ volunteered to be an observer on a bombing mission in the Pacific. His plane had some kind of mechanical problem and turned back. The other planes on the mission were bounced by Jap fighters and IIRC one of the other observers was injured or killed. His plane wasn't anywhere near the action. He deserves praise for volunteering for a combat mission but certainly not a Silver Star.

147 posted on 01/13/2006 2:28:43 PM PST by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: tumblindice

Yep, it looks like both Murtha and Kerry learned well from LBJ: Get the medal and write your own ticket to congress, just fake the documentation any way you can then hide behind the privacy of military records. Check it out:

148 posted on 01/13/2006 2:29:58 PM PST by poncho67
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To: GSWarrior
Don't DO THIS!! There is NO need. Murtha is a has-been politician.


149 posted on 01/13/2006 2:29:59 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: jjmcgo

I don't have a PH.

When a person arrived at his unit, he filled out some paperwork. One document was a release form that permitted the Army to publish, in your hometown newspaper, information pertaining to decorations or awards. The PH was probably not included - as some would consider a wound as sensitive and deserving of privacy. I'm not very sure anyway.

The best I recall is that a medic could put a person in for a PH, as well as the Battalion surgeon. The recipient would probably be made aware of this decision immediately.

Some may not realize that alot of these records are available in the National Archives.

A friend was looking up orders for a buddy of mine who had lost his citation for a Bronze Star with V device, and found a medical report about me for a non combat wound I received.
So it's likely that a medical report can be found in the Archives detailing the extent of Murtha's wounds.

150 posted on 01/13/2006 2:30:18 PM PST by wingman1 (University of Vietnam 1970. Forget? Hell.)
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To: Wristpin
Truth be known the Pennsylvania Cross for Valor is Pennsylvania's highest award. The PA MSM is number 4. PA State Awards and Decorations - Order of Precedence
151 posted on 01/13/2006 2:30:18 PM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother (Democrats would rather whine than win)
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To: demkicker
There's truth to what you say.As one of my best friends says:"Murtha is an ex-Marine."

My friend was in the Marines in Vietnam and he says "ex-Marine" is the worst insult that one Marine can say to or about another one who has turned his back on the Corps.

152 posted on 01/13/2006 2:32:03 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: kellynla
"Is this a wise place to go?" Absolutely! These "war heroes" put their "combat service" out in front and rode that reputation into Congress for decades. Any Marine worth his salt would be proud to have the world see their war record. I AM!

Thank you. That is exactly what I think. Why on earth would he not release his military records? I just cannot understand that? Also, with Kerry? Just release the records. Everyone should be proud of their service.

I have no problem asking these types of questions, however, I must wonder if Murtha is even worth the time.

153 posted on 01/13/2006 2:33:24 PM PST by yellowdoghunter (I sometimes only vote for Republicans because they are not Democrats. by Thomas Sowell)
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To: paltz
Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

Deja vu

154 posted on 01/13/2006 2:34:01 PM PST by NCjim (The more I use Windows, the more I love UNIX)
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To: tumblindice
Believe he earned the star by flying as a passenger in a cargo plane in the Pacific theater, but sure he made up with rhetoric, as a US Rep at the time, in the citation what he lacked in valor.

Not quite right. Johnson was commissioned a LtCdr, USNR, while serving as a Member of Congress. He was sent on a Congressional fact-finding tour of the Pacific and was called to active duty for that period. The team arranged to fly aboard a squadron of B-26 bombers on a bombing raid. On the morning of the raid, there was a mix-up about who was assigned to which aircraft. Johnson was shifted from one aircraft to another. The aircraft he rode on experienced a mechnical problem shortly after take-off, aborted the mission and returned to base. Never flew over enemy air space and was never fired at. The aircraft that he was orignally assigned to was shot down over the target area, all aboard were killed.

Johnson was awarded the Silver Star by GEN Douglas MacArthur who knew a thing or two about the important of kissing the a$$ of Congress. The orders were legit, but of course, Johnson never heard a shot fired in anger.

155 posted on 01/13/2006 2:37:36 PM PST by centurion316 (Democrats - Al Qaida's Best Friends)
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To: Wristpin
Yeah, and what really burns me is that from what we know, they both requested the PH's.I had never heard of anyone doing that before.It's just not something you do.
156 posted on 01/13/2006 2:37:57 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Radix

"His comments were subversive, and helpful to our enemies."

AND his comments were given credibility based on his purported war experinces and decorations!

He's fair game - especially in light of the exisitence of numerous phony, wannabe Vietnam veterans.

157 posted on 01/13/2006 2:38:28 PM PST by wingman1 (University of Vietnam 1970. Forget? Hell.)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

Well now I am very confused. He was in the Marine Reserve not the PA National Guard. The media portrayed his awards as THE MSM & DSM which are signed by the President, not the state awards. Something stinks here.

158 posted on 01/13/2006 2:39:57 PM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: paltz

If Murtha ever runs for President, then sure it'd be relevant. But just because he's saying we should cut & run from Iraq? Nnnnnnah, it's not worth it to go there.

159 posted on 01/13/2006 2:40:35 PM PST by jennyp (PILTDOWN MAN IS REAL! Don't buy the evolutionist's Big Lie that Piltdown was a hoax!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

I owe you an apology and a thank you.

I've been pinged by you about the "move on freepers" to the point where I thought you were talking about me specically, but now I see from this thread that there exists a cadre of these Move On Freeper types dedicated to the strategy of silencing any republican or conservative critisms of anyone in the liberals or democrats that ever served in the military and is using that military experiance to say this war should end now.

They are worst then trolls, trolls are merely disruptive, this cadre seeks to prevent the same sort of challenge of any democrat that our leaders have to deal with almost daily in the press based upon their military service or lack there of.

As a former Marine, Muthra's conduct and remarks sickens me to the point where I have trouble opening these threads, I am so livid with rage at the way he has shat the very ideas taught to him as a Marine and by him as a Drill Instructor during the Korean Conflict.

And now to find out that he has admitted on the floor of the House to a fellow congressman and democrat that he never earned his Purple Hearts.

Well I just don't know what to say any more...

Except now He needs to prove he earned them.

160 posted on 01/13/2006 2:49:56 PM PST by usmcobra (30 years since I first celebrated The Marine Corps Birthday as a Marine)
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