Skip to comments.Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question
Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz
(CNSNews.com) - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.
Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.
A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.
"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.
Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.
Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."
In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.
"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.
"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.
However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.
When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.
"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.
On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.
"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.
Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.
"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.
Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.
"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.
But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.
"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.
A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."
Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.
The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.
"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."
Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."
"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.
In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.
'He's a phony and a liar'
Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.
... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.
Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.
"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.
"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.
In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.
"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.
Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.
"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.
According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"
But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.
"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.
Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.
"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.
"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.
Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'
During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.
"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.
In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.
"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.
"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.
Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.
"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.
The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.
Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.
(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)
Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam
My friend was in the Marines in Vietnam and he says "ex-Marine" is the worst insult that one Marine can say to or about another one who has turned his back on the Corps.
Thank you. That is exactly what I think. Why on earth would he not release his military records? I just cannot understand that? Also, with Kerry? Just release the records. Everyone should be proud of their service.
I have no problem asking these types of questions, however, I must wonder if Murtha is even worth the time.
Not quite right. Johnson was commissioned a LtCdr, USNR, while serving as a Member of Congress. He was sent on a Congressional fact-finding tour of the Pacific and was called to active duty for that period. The team arranged to fly aboard a squadron of B-26 bombers on a bombing raid. On the morning of the raid, there was a mix-up about who was assigned to which aircraft. Johnson was shifted from one aircraft to another. The aircraft he rode on experienced a mechnical problem shortly after take-off, aborted the mission and returned to base. Never flew over enemy air space and was never fired at. The aircraft that he was orignally assigned to was shot down over the target area, all aboard were killed.
Johnson was awarded the Silver Star by GEN Douglas MacArthur who knew a thing or two about the important of kissing the a$$ of Congress. The orders were legit, but of course, Johnson never heard a shot fired in anger.
"His comments were subversive, and helpful to our enemies."
AND his comments were given credibility based on his purported war experinces and decorations!
He's fair game - especially in light of the exisitence of numerous phony, wannabe Vietnam veterans.
Well now I am very confused. He was in the Marine Reserve not the PA National Guard. The media portrayed his awards as THE MSM & DSM which are signed by the President, not the state awards. Something stinks here.
If Murtha ever runs for President, then sure it'd be relevant. But just because he's saying we should cut & run from Iraq? Nnnnnnah, it's not worth it to go there.
I owe you an apology and a thank you.
I've been pinged by you about the "move on freepers" to the point where I thought you were talking about me specically, but now I see from this thread that there exists a cadre of these Move On Freeper types dedicated to the strategy of silencing any republican or conservative critisms of anyone in the liberals or democrats that ever served in the military and is using that military experiance to say this war should end now.
They are worst then trolls, trolls are merely disruptive, this cadre seeks to prevent the same sort of challenge of any democrat that our leaders have to deal with almost daily in the press based upon their military service or lack there of.
As a former Marine, Muthra's conduct and remarks sickens me to the point where I have trouble opening these threads, I am so livid with rage at the way he has shat the very ideas taught to him as a Marine and by him as a Drill Instructor during the Korean Conflict.
And now to find out that he has admitted on the floor of the House to a fellow congressman and democrat that he never earned his Purple Hearts.
Well I just don't know what to say any more...
Except now He needs to prove he earned them.
Check the font.
Vietnam was a war in which the draft/lottery motivated involvement, not particularly patriotism.
I would have avoided Army service except for a low Lottery number towards the end of the Vietnam war. So, I entered the Reserves and managed to stay Stateside as things had winded down by then...otherwise I'd have likely served in Vietnam.
But that would not have made me a patriot even if I had gotten a purple heart for whatever.
Murtha, like Kerry, like any "veteran" needs to be judge on the here & now, not judged by whatever claims they make about a war that ended 30+ years ago.
Do you find it odd that a Colonel retiring after 37 years would a receive an EOT not from the Corps but a much lesser award from the Governor of his state?
Anyone who ever sat in a VFW Post or American Legion bar knows the whoppers being told about military service. It ain't bragging if you can prove you did it, so, prove it Jack Murtha.
Nope, never done in the Army for sure.
Signature block used on even the most routine of documents.
"Service record fraud points to a lack of character, honesty and morals, very important attributes in my books. It also dishonors those who earned those decorations the real way and cheapens those very honors, inexcusable!"
"There sure are a number of wusses on this thread that are scaredy-cats. Where does one stop when it comes to fraud, dishonesty for personal gain? No wonder we're in the shape that we are. "
Well said and worth repeating.
I think this approach will backfire. Best to deal with Murtha in the present, not the past.
Correct. Engage him on his ideas.
Quite. In my area, bums at stoplights with "Vietnam Vet, please help" are to be seen. Doesn't mean they automatically should hold high political office.
Sister's boyfriend was in Vietnam, got a purple heart and a VA disability....but still is a full blown Commie.
I'm not going to get in between two Democrats accusing each other of lying.
The man is using his "record" in the here and now, that is what makes it subject to checking and verification, in the here and now.
We all know there are plenty of fake veterans out there, and quite a few real veterans who have "puffed up" their accomplishments. JF'nK for example, along with many of the other peacenik veterans. IIRC Cindy Sheehan had one of those hanging around her. A cashiered Marine, who later became a homosexual porn star, IIRC.
That's what people said about John Kerry in the 2004 election. The reason I disagree about it backfiring, though it may (and with no disrespect to you, dirtboy) is because Murtha expects us to respect his "present" based on his "past" (as did Kerry). Therefore, it is all fair game.
Besides, if he is one of the people questioning others' ethics, then his should be open for scrutiny as well. I'll be interested to see where this goes (or doesn't).
think this approach will backfire. Best to deal with Murtha in the present, not the past.
Correct. Engage him on his ideas.
The only problem is we have 160,000 troops over in Iraq that Murfa has made every hour more dangerous for them. Then there is the message of weakness and division that Iran and our other enemies hear. Murfa's military service allows him to stake out the high moral ground and shriek his unamerican BS! If he misrepresented his service record he needs to be knocked off the hill.
"Fact is that politicians with war records tend to "improve" them as time goes on and memories fade. Many civil war veterans who mustered out as sergeants were promoted to Captain or major as time went by."
I don't believe that was the case with Bob Dole or the President's father.
I find it odd that a Colonel retiring after 37 years wasn't bumped up a grade.
One of my old CO's retired a general after a bird strike in a huey ended his career as a pilot. That sort of courtesy bump in grade is not uncommon, especially if you are a "political" as Muthra is or was.
He went there , no one else is responsible for these questions but HIM.
In the Air Force it's called a tombstone promotion. One of my old bosses got one.
It's amazing how many Repubs including Freepers want to sweep a DemonRAT's lies and attempts to paint himself as some sort of war hero under the carpet and fail to hold them accountable for their lies & distortions. War heroes generally do not have to talk up their own valor, unlike Murtha and Kerry. Neither one of the them qualified for their medals and I wish that Repubs would make a big stink out their lies, the way that the DimWits would do. Certainly the left-wing partisan media would never hold the DimWits accountable. It is sad to see Repubs who fail to challenge and make an issue of the fact that DimWits will use any means (including bald face lies over their service records) to get elected. Once they're in, then they play the part of wounded loyal Americans who are having their valor & patriotism questioned. It needs to be questioned if they're lying about it. You can bet the left-wing media searched every dotted i and crossed t of President Bush's record trying to find something, anything to take him down.
When I was discharged, I was instructed to record my DD214 with the County Clerk in my home county.
It is recorded there and anyone can get a copy of it just by asking. It is a public record.
You must also provide it to the Social Security when you retire.
Another Purple Heart wound didn't break the skin?
"Is this a wise place to go?"
These "war heroes" put their "combat service" out in front and rode that reputation into Congress for decades.
Any Marine worth his salt would be proud to have the world see their war record. I AM!
If he was a Marine Rustiest all those years, how can he be getting official military awards from Pennsylvania. If he had been Army or Air National Guard, yeh, they have some state level awards, but AFAIK, the states don't give Awards and Decs to reservists. It's only fairly recently that some states give preferential tuition and such to reservists as opposed to guardsmen from their own states. I was a reservist in a state that only gave them to guardsmen, of course that was in the dark ages, but it's also when Murtha would have been serving in the reserves a few years after his Vietnam tour.
But then again, neither is falsifying the record of that service.
I'm honestly not a fan of calling someone's military service into question, unless it is John Kerry of course ;)
IIRC, His rank was mostly received after he was a national level politician. Doesn't mean much.
After meeting with Code Pinko it should be.
"but now I see from this thread that there exists a cadre of these Move On Freeper types"
Look for the ones who attack me, instead of hanoi kerry,
like I really care what these hypocrites think. LOL
They hate that I'm a lifelong Independent Voter
and an outspoken Viet Nam Vet.
Look for the ones who condone a traitor in the US Senate
and never back any movement to uphold the law of the land.
... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you).
sounds like he still took a lot more of a beating than Hanoi John.
Murtha apparently is one of those politicians who believes that after so long he becomes invisible and unquestionable. I find a number of things curious about his story.
He claims that he had been awake for over twenty-four hours as if it was unusual. In a war zone twenty-four hours is nothing.
He says he has a Bronze Star with the "Combat V". Is this something new? I thought the V stood for something else.
He claims two Purple Hearts and describes different injuries each time he refers to them.
And last he will not release his records.
BS Alert is ON!!!
This looks like something Democrats would do. Not good.
Should contest with Murtha in current times, not decades ago.
Democrats are hanging their hats on his war hero status. Considering what happened to Kerry would they repeat the same strategy of hiding his records? I think the jury is still out on this. Perhaps the truth should be known one way or the other.
Certainly a frustrating aspect of the Republican party is that they are always trying to good sports and get their hats handed to them by the vulgar Demoncants. Let's be clear I don't want Republicans to look like the Bill Presses, Kennedys or Paul Begalas of the world, but there isn't anything wrong with playing hardball.
If Murtha is the hero they claim, his backbone will stand up to the can of worms he opened.
Have you seen the paperwork? Or at least the checks?
That is because neither one of you were there or have ever been shot at in combat....
Is this a wise place to go?
No, the 1st words out of any dems mouth will be that Murtha is being attacked akin to what the Swifties did to Kerry.
Not that what the Swifties did to Kerry was wrong but just that what the dems are going to say.