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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

( - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.

Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.

Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."

In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.

"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.

When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.

"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.

On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.

"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.

"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.

Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.

"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.

But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.

"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.

A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."

Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.

"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."

"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.

In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.

'He's a phony and a liar'

Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.

... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.

Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.

"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.

"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.

In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.

"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.

Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.

"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.

According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"

But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.

"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.

Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.

"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.

"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.

Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'

During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.

"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.

In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.

"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.

"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.

Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.

"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.

The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.

Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.

(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)

Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam

TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; abscam; anotherpurpleowie; cnsnews; exmarine; foundkerrysmedals; liar; murtha; murthamedals; phony; phonyandaliar; purpleheart; purplehearts
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To: Wristpin
Cobra, Do you find it odd that a Colonel retiring after 37 years would a receive an EOT not from the Corps but a much lesser award from the Governor of his state?

ding .... now you get it......padding the old resume... saw it with some Marines in order to get stamped as having commanded a "rifle company" rotate around the company commanders position so they can get the bump to Pentagon ... the Marines are a small outfit, so it's real hard to "fake" stuff..or pad your service record. Everybody knows everybody else's sh#t... It's really like a big dysfunctional family that just loves to kick ass and take names. They don't like anybody making fun of them or their "kin" or the games they play...or the way they play them.

I'll take a bet...$20 that neither one of his Purple Hearts or "V" for "V for Combat" is worth it's weight in whale sh#t.

I've met Marine officers who are flaming libs but mostly the officers I've been privileged to meet are gentleman, courteous, competitive, honorable, but would be able to field strip an M-1, M-14, M-16 or .45, feed his men before he ate, and be able to find, engage and destroy any enemy of our country....

and THAT'S why I more than want to bust Murtha's a$$.... there are great men who've worn and died with that little old Globe and Anchor, that this turd is dishonoring. He's just like that old fart in Florida who deserted 30 years ago..... an f'ing coward and disgrace to the Corp and the men who've served.

as for the FReepers that "don't want to go there".... don't worry, you won't have to.... just step aside and let somebody else do the heavy lifting. If it turns out he's actually blind from a beer tab injury or got crotch rot or the clap from some mama-san then I guess maybe he can throw his ribbons in the same body of water that Kerry did.....what a bunch of posers.

251 posted on 01/13/2006 6:04:29 PM PST by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: Dick Vomer


252 posted on 01/13/2006 6:21:02 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: Dick Vomer
There is nothing worse in the Corps then an officer that screws over the troops for his own benefit or to cover his rear end.

Muthra is doing both on a much grander scale, every service man or woman in Iraq and Afghanistan is at risk because of Muthra's words, anything we do to prevent him from further harming the mission he sent them on is justified.
253 posted on 01/13/2006 6:36:06 PM PST by usmcobra (30 years since I first celebrated The Marine Corps Birthday as a Marine)
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To: GSWarrior

There should be some cartoons done with purple heart bandaids on Murtha's face. No Republican should mention it and should denounce anyone who points it out - just for the record. : )

254 posted on 01/13/2006 6:50:25 PM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

Just hold your tongue.

255 posted on 01/13/2006 7:02:22 PM PST by jveritas (The Axis of Defeatism: Left wing liberals, Buchananites, and third party voters.)
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To: paltz

The past, is the past. But it never hurts to make him believe he simply went one step too far and put his hero status in question. Scare the guy and see what kinds of blubbering start pouring out. Might surprise everyone. Might spill his guts.

256 posted on 01/13/2006 7:02:31 PM PST by Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin
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To: dirtboy
" I think this approach will backfire. Best to deal with Murtha in the present, not the past." regarding his plan to re-invade Iraq if things go badly: what is his estimate of how many casualties we would take in a re-invasion??????

257 posted on 01/13/2006 7:10:31 PM PST by cookcounty (Army Vet, Army Dad.)
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To: paltz

When a person bases something of value (career, marriage, etc) on a lie, then everything that comes to him is pretty much worthless. We know what we need to know. He can't be trusted.

258 posted on 01/13/2006 7:14:32 PM PST by Just Lori (The road to hell is paved by liberals.)
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To: dirtboy
"I think this approach will backfire. Best to deal with Murtha in the present, not the past."

I disagree ---
The Democrats have foisted Murtha and his "heroic past" in out faces as his "blood earned right" to criticize the war and the President......
How many times have you heard that Murtha was a "hero" and deserved the SAME time as he is behaving like a traitor and under suspicion by the ethics committee?
Shades of the phony, lying, Kerry --- and his charges against our warriors.....

Just like Kerry -- Murtha can end the questioning by simply releasing his DD214 with Medical Records...

That is the ONLY way to end the questioning.....
Please note that Kerry has still failed to fully release his records, too.....

Another point -- Murtha, like Kerry -- ran on his military record..... He made a freaking career of his "military service", his sacrifice recognized by his TWO Purple Hearts........
I don't think it's asking much of a "civil servant" who has sucked at the public tit all these DECADES to prove his primary running claim.....

Murtha, his record, his behavior, his statements and his whole "being" is beginning to smell VERY bad....

Semper Fi

259 posted on 01/13/2006 7:19:18 PM PST by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: Wuli

An interesting pattern, if it's true.

260 posted on 01/13/2006 7:21:20 PM PST by skr ("That book [Bible], sir, is the rock on which our republic rests."--Andrew Jackson)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver; usmcobra
You have obviously never served...probably you should not comment....

Your judgement here is flawed and more to the point having served is not a requirement for offering an opinion on those who have or haven't.

And now I'll explain why your judgement is flawed. Murtha has stuck his ample foot in his ample mouth more times than is necessary to cast doubt on his opinion. When he advises young men and women not to serve their country while we are engaging islamofascists worldwide he wins no points. When young soldiers stand up and tell him that to his face he loses points and credibility as he should. So Murtha should be attacked but not for what he did 37 years ago but for the lunacy he is offering today for two reasons. The first is that attacking his record engenders sympathy for an old Marine that he would not otherwise get from various folks in this country. And the second is because it has no bearing on todays debate though it might go to his credibility.

So my judgement is to attack his words and leave his DD-214 in the closet.

And one other thing, I never did like officers. :-}

PS: usmcobra, only the analysis applies to you. I understand where you're coming from and the analogy to politicans during Vietnam is right on target. People should be reminded of that on a daily basis.

261 posted on 01/13/2006 7:39:48 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Dick Vomer; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thank you.

262 posted on 01/13/2006 7:48:48 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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That was the Army definition, and doesn't address the issue of the "V" device. Here's something from the Navy Exchange Service Command (which also covers the Marines):

"V" Device Authorized for acts or service involving direct participation in combat operations

263 posted on 01/13/2006 8:13:35 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: river rat; RVN Airplane Driver; usmcobra

murtha + code pink = traitors

Wonder which so called "FReepers" think that the GOP pulling the "white flag ad" was a good thing because
they want to be "PC" but
don't give a damm about our troops,
overseas and at home.

264 posted on 01/13/2006 8:17:01 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: jwalsh07
So Murtha should be attacked but not for what he did 37 years ago

But he's not being attacked for what he *did* all those years ago, but rather for distorting it now. Big difference.

265 posted on 01/13/2006 8:24:58 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Thanks, Tonk! This is exactly what I was looking for (and was too lazy to research myself!)

I plan to forward this information to all my liberal associates. Thank you!

266 posted on 01/13/2006 8:30:56 PM PST by RushCrush (Liberals have low self esteem.)
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To: Wristpin

Source for that? I hadn't heard...????

267 posted on 01/13/2006 8:32:29 PM PST by RushCrush (Liberals have low self esteem.)
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To: Wristpin

"Actually he quietly released it to a couple of friendly reporters at the Boston Globe and had a "military expert" go through it for them....I imagine Murtha would do the similar thing if pushed."

348 days ago,
Hanoi Kerry promised, on national TV,
to sign form SF-180 AND release his full military records
to the public.
He has yet to do so.
President Bush signed his Form 180 in 2004.

Kerry Hangs Back From Disclosure to All
The NY Sun June 9, 2005 Josh Gerstein

Did Kerry really release Navy records?
Chicagao Sun Times June 9, 2005 THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB



268 posted on 01/13/2006 8:39:27 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: kellynla
I agree.

If he served and is proud of his service, he should show everything.
If he doesn't show all then he is a a fraud.
Like Skerry.
269 posted on 01/13/2006 9:02:00 PM PST by crushelits
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To: usmcobra


And the vile stench of sappers is beginning to get rather strong around here...

270 posted on 01/13/2006 9:11:05 PM PST by snuffy smiff ("the theory of Communism may be summed up in a single sentence:abolition of private property"-K.Marx)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks for the ping!

271 posted on 01/13/2006 9:16:41 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: jwalsh07
So Murtha should be attacked but not for what he did 37 years ago

Why? Murtha has very noisily and visibly played up his war experiences from 37 years ago in a cynical attempt to gain moral advantage over those he disagrees with. Thus, he has put his military service in play.

I say, fire for effect on his fraudulent heroism.

272 posted on 01/13/2006 9:18:20 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: kellynla

Right on Marine---just say any 'honest serviceman' would be proud to show his records---my 5 years during WW2 and after don't show me as any hero and I never claimed to be--just because I served at Normandy on 6/6/44, and for some time thereafter, with a Flotilla of 60 US Coast Guard cutters (wood hulled and carrying 2000 gal of gas for fuel)certainly doesn't give me bragging rights to set myself up a any type of 'war hero'--fact that that CG Rescue Flotilla 1 saved 1438 men and 1 woman during the landings time does prove we were worth the effort---Murtha is just like many phoney's who may have been in service but blow it up for their own profit later on---hell, I cut my leg on the engine room ladder during enemy action but never even thought of asking for a medal--then again, I am not a slimey "demonrat" lookin for my 15 minutes of glory by bashing our President and spitting on the men and women in harms way---can't say in polite society what I really think of his kind other than 'traitor' and 'scum of the earth' (then, that is really a true Rat designation after all)

273 posted on 01/13/2006 9:31:40 PM PST by cmotormac44
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To: kellynla
Agree with you. Murtha, like Kerry, has touted his war record to validate his views. Murtha mentioned in his press briefing and on the House floor his meeting with a wounded soldier in Walter Reed who had not received his PH. Murtha said he offered his own.

Murtha is out of the Tip O'Neill school of political hacks whose ambition exceeds their record or ability. LBJ received a fraudulent Silver Star to advance his political career.

Murtha is coming out now because he may be subject to an ethics investigation dealing with his ties with his brother’s lobbying firm, KSA. He can now claim that he is a target of any possible investigation because of his anti-war views.

274 posted on 01/13/2006 9:40:16 PM PST by kabar
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To: paltz

The sources for this story set off some alarm bells. Fox and Bailey were both defeated by Murtha in congressional elections. Sour grapes? I think some impartial witnesses are needed.

275 posted on 01/13/2006 9:42:50 PM PST by TroutFishingInAmerica ("I remember, with particular amusement, men in three-cornered hats, fishing in the dawn")
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To: cmotormac44

Thank You for your service to our country

276 posted on 01/13/2006 9:47:45 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Have you said Thank You to a Service Man or Woman today?)
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To: Ramcat
You, too? Perhaps we should write some letters to the editor of the Herald Standard, asking them to look into their archives for stories about Murtha's valiant exploits in the '60's? Does your name reflect your 40? I know where that is. I remember some stories not too long ago about Murtha playing s.o.p. Pennsylvania politics and getting his family and friends big defense contracts thru his position on committees--- never was anything honorable about this man, our friends from the rest of the country just don't understand Fayette County politics!
277 posted on 01/13/2006 9:49:59 PM PST by Segovia (Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.)
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To: GSWarrior; dirtboy; Phantom Lord
Is this a wise place to go?

This is what Bush called "the politics of personal destruction" I call it character assasination.

The unfortuneate part is that character assasination is the only thing the democrats know how to do. I say we must retaliate in kind. I don't like it because most people are doing good things 99% of the time and to focus on the other 1%, well, it can get ugly, especially since none of us are saints and even if we were, most things can be spun to look ugly.

but the democrats want a no holds barred knife fight, so we have to do the same.

278 posted on 01/13/2006 10:25:32 PM PST by staytrue (Annoy the Media. Vote Republican.)
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To: TX Bluebonnet
IMO real heros don't ask for medals OR flaunt them.

Bob Dole and Bush 41. Over their political careers, you would barely know they had even served in the military.

279 posted on 01/13/2006 10:33:29 PM PST by staytrue (Annoy the Media. Vote Republican.)
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To: paltz
I loved the clip on Brit Hume tonight of the soldier that showed up and ripped Murtha a good one over his "morale is poor" remark: "You didn't talk to anybody in my unit!!!"

Eyes were flashing, the kid was mad, Murtha couldn't look him in the eye.

280 posted on 01/13/2006 10:42:51 PM PST by cookcounty (Army Vet, Army Dad.)
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To: Fierce Allegiance

Exactly........Murtha is really a non factor. Going after his military records can do no good.

Now, I'd still like to see Kerry's, but that is a different thread..........

281 posted on 01/13/2006 10:46:47 PM PST by Shortstop7
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To: Shortstop7

Thanks. I figured I was going to get hamered on my opinion.

282 posted on 01/13/2006 10:49:14 PM PST by Fierce Allegiance (I can dance in boots just fine, thanks!)
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To: Americanexpat

You know........that's a good point. If he goes on TV and attacks the President, then he's fair game.

The Repubs don't use these tactics though........nastiness and downright lying.

283 posted on 01/13/2006 10:52:13 PM PST by Shortstop7
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To: paltz

Interesting article! Thanks for posting it, and ignore the critics.

284 posted on 01/13/2006 10:57:09 PM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: Wuli

It may not be a wise place to go, publicly, but it is interesting how this tactic of building up a phony military record is used by anti-war liberals like Kerry, and now possibly Murtha, to perpetuate "heroic" lies about themselves.

It really isn't necessary for the Pubs to do anything. Let the MSM and/or internet bloggers get hold of this and run with it. The attacks made on Murtha were by fellow Dem Vets or lawmakers, not Pubs. We've got nothing to lose and everything to gain by just sitting back and let this info about Murtha percolate out there. It's a freebie for the Pubs.

285 posted on 01/13/2006 11:11:57 PM PST by flaglady47
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To: dirtboy

"Best to deal with Murtha in the present, not the past."

Good point. Even Mark Steyn has said he doesn't care
what Murtha did in the last war, but what he's done
in THIS one.

Let Murtha rest in his own hell, if he deserves it.
Let's take him on NOW.

286 posted on 01/13/2006 11:14:37 PM PST by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: K-oneTexas; GSWarrior

I agree. Not a smart move to be perceived as "attacking" a veteran.

287 posted on 01/13/2006 11:55:27 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day ("Without God all things are permissible." -- Dostoevsky)
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To: All

Anyone with combat experience knows that Military Intel. officers are in the rear with the gear. His claim that he was in the bush most of the time is B.S. I'm a 29 year SF vet, been there.

288 posted on 01/14/2006 12:19:33 AM PST by roughman ( roughmen stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm (orwell))
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To: paltz

Absolutely great find!!

289 posted on 01/14/2006 12:54:35 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: paltz

Hi, paltz:

Focus on Mutha's Congressional record and find out just how much of a "Hawk" he really is.

My guess is..... Not much.


290 posted on 01/14/2006 1:04:11 AM PST by Jack Deth (Knight Errant and Disemboweler of the WFTD Thread)
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To: Dick Vomer
"we all got killed!!!

Excellent post FRiend. My two cents....not all military personnel are heroes...regardless of awards, medals or citations. I don't care if Murtha was a Marine or not, a liar is a liar and Murtha sold his soul for politics long ago....

291 posted on 01/14/2006 2:28:50 AM PST by ScreamingFist ( The RKBA doesn't apply if I have a bigger gun than your bodyguard. NRA)
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To: cmotormac44

Thank you for serving our country.

292 posted on 01/14/2006 3:07:27 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: river rat


293 posted on 01/14/2006 3:11:31 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: paltz
"Admiral BOORDA committed suicide for far less."
294 posted on 01/14/2006 3:21:04 AM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: usmcobra

"Tombstone" promotions ended a while back.

295 posted on 01/14/2006 3:50:25 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother (Democrats would rather whine than win)
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To: dirtboy
I think this approach will backfire. Best to deal with Murtha in the present, not the past. Agreed. The Dems have already gone that route with George Bush. The guy gave 37 years to his country and that I can respect and up until recently, he had been a supporter of the war and no one called his service into question. Now that he has, this comes up. Deal with the DUMB DUMB rhetoric that is coming out of his mouth now. That's a lot easier to act upon.
296 posted on 01/14/2006 3:58:56 AM PST by moog
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To: moog
Fri Jan 13 2006 17:14:15 ET

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) believes the vast majority of U.S. troops in Iraq will be out by the end of the year and maybe even sooner. In his boldest words yet on the subject, the outspoken critic of the war predicts the withdrawal and tells Mike Wallace why he thinks the Bush administration will do it. The interview, a portion of which will appear on tonight's (13) CBS EVENING NEWS, will be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday Jan. 15 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

"I think the vast majority will be out by the end of the year and I'm hopeful it will be sooner than that," Murtha tells Wallace, in the 60 MINUTES interview.

dumb dumb

297 posted on 01/14/2006 4:02:08 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: Christian4Bush
My thoughts exactly, kelly. He's the one that brought up the "chickenhawk" slur against those who didn't serve (when we first heard of him), particularly slurring VP Cheney and his "five deferments

(Didn't say anything about John Kerry's FOUR deferments...)"

not to forget that Clinton dodged the draft THREE FRIGGIN' TIMES!
298 posted on 01/14/2006 4:20:27 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots. Semper Fi!)
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To: MEG33

Exactly what I mean. I can't imagine why he is saying some of this at all.

299 posted on 01/14/2006 4:20:40 AM PST by moog
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To: moog

If he constantly put his service out as legitimizing his right to say these things, then I believe Marines and vets have right to investigate the truthfulness of his claims.

I always leave it up to people who who served to critique.

I honor his service but do not respect his demoralizing our troops or cavorting with Code Pink. His service, no matter whether he "padded" his part or not, does not justify what he has said recently.
He hurt our troops so I hold him accountable.

300 posted on 01/14/2006 4:29:37 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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