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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question
cnsnews.com ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

(CNSNews.com) - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.

Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.

Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."

In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.

"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.

When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.

"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.

On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.

"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.

"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.

Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.

"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.

But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.

"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.

A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."

Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.

"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."

"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.

In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.

'He's a phony and a liar'

Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.

... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.

Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.

"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.

"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.

In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.

"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.

Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.

"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.

According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"

But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.

"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.

Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.

"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.

"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.

Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'

During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.

"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.

In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.

"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.

"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.

Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.

"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.

The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.

Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.

(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)

Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; abscam; anotherpurpleowie; cnsnews; exmarine; foundkerrysmedals; liar; murtha; murthamedals; phony; phonyandaliar; purpleheart; purplehearts
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Comment #351 Removed by Moderator

To: OldEagle
Good morning.
"I have never heard it called a "Combat V"."

I think the French looking traitor john kerry did as well.

Michael Frazier
352 posted on 01/14/2006 11:34:27 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: paltz

Yeah, like Kerry he hides behind medals he did NOT earn.


353 posted on 01/14/2006 11:41:39 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: river rat
My cousin Joe was with 1-1 HQ Company in '66, I will ask him if he remembers Murtha, when I see him next.

I don't ever remember any Intelligence Officers in the field, when there was shooting going on anyway, in my Viet Nam experience, maybe the crotch was different. I do remember a directive from MAC-V about the awarding of Hearts in '67, that said you had to have some Iron in you to get one, there was a lot of Medal inflation going on at the time.

354 posted on 01/14/2006 11:42:47 AM PST by Little Bill (A 37%'r, a Red Spot on a Blue State, rats are evil.)
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To: dirtboy

I don't know about that ... it is from examining Kerry's past that people WERE turned off and he was EXPOSED for what he really is.


355 posted on 01/14/2006 11:43:03 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Frank Burns - egg shell fragment BUMP


356 posted on 01/14/2006 11:49:38 AM PST by Delta 21 (MKC USCG-ret)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BTTT


357 posted on 01/14/2006 11:55:57 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BTT!!! & thanks for the ping Brother!


358 posted on 01/14/2006 12:03:25 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
it sure seems as though "mouth murtha" is just as much of a phony as "coward kerry"
359 posted on 01/14/2006 12:05:27 PM PST by vigilante2 (I'm the proud parent of a soldier)
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To: RushCrush
Then later Kerry said he had signed it but had not faxed it to the military?

the lawyers loophole.

Russert never asked when Kerry would sign and further he never asked that if Kerry signed, would it be delivered.

360 posted on 01/14/2006 12:15:35 PM PST by staytrue (Annoy the Media. Vote Republican.)
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To: river rat; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
On target.

Fire for effect.

redrock

361 posted on 01/14/2006 12:20:10 PM PST by redrock ("I woke up this morning...everything else is just Dessert."--some old guy in Utah)
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To: jveritas
Murtha needs to be exposed for what he is.

...and that includes the real possilbility that he lied about his service period.

It's like chipping away at the foundation of a house...you destroy the foundation..and the entire house falls.

redrock

362 posted on 01/14/2006 12:23:35 PM PST by redrock ("I woke up this morning...everything else is just Dessert."--some old guy in Utah)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
In the Movie "The Seekers" The Duke shot the eyes out of a Dead Comanche. When asked why he responded; "They believe that without their eyes they can't find the Happy Hunting Ground." Interesting concept corollary to yours.
363 posted on 01/14/2006 12:24:42 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks for the ping!


364 posted on 01/14/2006 12:37:58 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thank you for the ping!


365 posted on 01/14/2006 12:46:59 PM PST by PilloryHillary (Government is the only enterprise in the world which expands in size when its failures increase.)
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To: SandRat
In the Movie "The Seekers" The Duke shot the eyes out of a Dead Comanche. When asked why he responded; "They believe that without their eyes they can't find the Happy Hunting Ground

. they will be hunted down....they will be exposed as phonies, liars and traitors...their eyes will be shot out and will forever be barred from entering the happpy hunting grounds of valor...forever.

366 posted on 01/14/2006 1:23:37 PM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("fake but accurate": NY Times)
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

Thought that phrase could take on a new life.


367 posted on 01/14/2006 1:26:34 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: TankerKC
No. Military personnel records are notoriously inaccurate

Danny Boy and his stooge Mary Mapes can certainly attest to that. ;D..."FAKE BUT ACCURATE"

368 posted on 01/14/2006 1:50:56 PM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("fake but accurate": NY Times)
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To: Fenris6
Let it go for now, we'll blast him next election cycle. When is he up again?

He's a congressman. The next election cycle begins the morning following the last election.

369 posted on 01/14/2006 1:51:09 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: paltz

"I agree that Murtha's Vietnam record isn't the issue, and shouldn't be. Rather it's his behavior regarding the current war that's the disgrace." Glenn Reynolds

http://instapundit.com/


370 posted on 01/14/2006 1:52:26 PM PST by sono (You can't convert people in pink dresses)
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To: paltz; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
WOW. I'll be digesting this one for a bit. You gotta agree with this for sure:

"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action,"

371 posted on 01/14/2006 2:00:08 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: sono
"I agree that Murtha's Vietnam record isn't the issue, and shouldn't be. Rather it's his behavior regarding the current war that's the disgrace." Glenn Reynolds

Glenn, whom I generally agree with, is being myopic. This goes beyond mere partisan politics for a lot of Veterans. Especially those who served in Vietnam. It's much deeper than that.

I didn't serve in VN. But I have a lot of friends and family who did. And I know how they feel about this.


372 posted on 01/14/2006 2:15:06 PM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("fake but accurate": NY Times)
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To: paltz

Haven't read all of the comments on this subject, but this fits in with what I suspected the first time I heard about the great Murtha last fall. Seems he spent 2 or 3 years total on active duty then the rest of all those years in the reserves. When I heard that he was a staff puke in Nam, I suspected that bronze star might be the kind they gave to every staff puke who served in a combat zone. The "v" thing is puzzling, however. Now we see that the purple hearts are Kerry-like..Suspicions confirmed. Lets see the military records and citations....


373 posted on 01/14/2006 2:27:30 PM PST by buffman
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan
You have a unique insight....to have imposter's come out of the shadows now that America has finally given us a nod of recognition is a double slap in the face. I don't know whether Murtha is a phony for sure, but as the old saying goes if it quakes and walks like a duck you can be pretty sure it's a duck. The military community can spot a fake usually in short order...like Murtha saying he was in the bush all the time.....as someone earlier pointed out...if he was..he was the only intel type to do so. Liars have a tough time keeping their stories straight...as I always said about telling a tale at a VFW or legion is stupid...because in many cases someone was there and would immediately call BS. Such is the ex military or particularly the Vietnam Vets on this thread....we know....and we hear and see the duck coming down the road!!
374 posted on 01/14/2006 2:27:34 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: OldArmy52
Murtha, like Kerry, like any "veteran" needs to be judge on the here & now, not judged by whatever claims they make about a war that ended 30+ years ago.

I would, too, think we should leave their records alone, but they are using them to gain something. If their medals are fake and unearned, it's their own fault for calling attention to them. No one would have gone after their service had they themselves not been using it to "prove" that they know what they are talking about. And no -- I have not ever served in the military.

375 posted on 01/14/2006 2:33:20 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
There used to be a line of things that were never attacked in political campaigns. Things like The Candidate's children and military service were never the stuff of political attacks, that is until the democrats seized upon them to attempt to destroy Bush before he would be elected.

As long as liberals continue to do so, We should use their tactics as well, but I won't attack the lives of their children, their bloated military service records will be enough to hang them out to dry.

If we force the issue and Muthra loses his seat in the House because he is exposed as a phony, I give the outcry two weeks at best.

If we do nothing and say nothing as some here want to do, Muthra gets re-elected almost unopposed for the next two years Muthra gets to continue to destroy the moral of our troops from the floor of the house.

It's a no brainer, They choose to make military service a legitimate political attack target, they've attempted to shred a President during time of war using those tactics, and now they and their willing minions whine at those of us willing to do the same to one of theirs to prevent him from losing this war and aiding our enemies.

FDR would have had Muthra locked away in an insane asylum for less.
376 posted on 01/14/2006 2:34:53 PM PST by usmcobra (30 years since I first celebrated The Marine Corps Birthday as a Marine)
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To: Christian4Bush

I am persuaded by the point you made at 174.


377 posted on 01/14/2006 2:58:04 PM PST by kilowhskey (Land of the free, because of the brave.)
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To: Little Bill
I don't doubt that some units followed the "No Iron, No Color" format....

The criteria for awarding Purple Hearts, is flexible to some degree - assuming they would be interpreted and applied by honorable men assessing the claims of honorable men......... As a result - some assholes violated the intent.


(2) A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above. A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record.


A "Medical OFFICER" -- in almost every case would have required a wound serious enough to require medivac....

In any case -- I doubt Murtha's "award" will hold up to scrutiny...

Semper Fi
378 posted on 01/14/2006 3:05:16 PM PST by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: usmcobra; Laurita; CMS; The Sailor; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; Defender2; OneLoyalAmerican; bkwells; ..

"If we do nothing and

say nothing as some here want to do,

Muthra gets re-elected almost unopposed for the next two years Muthra gets to continue to destroy the moral of our troops from the floor of the house."




I survived an attack today by someone on this forum trying to silence me by getting my account suspended.

And they did get it suspened, for a few hours,
because of my opinions on this very thread.

This was the 1st time since I've been on FR
that I've been silenced for voicing my opinion.

I know it wasn't Jim Robinson but
this certain poster and their "hired help"

Jim : If you read this I have the
exact FReep mails I was sent and my replies.




379 posted on 01/14/2006 3:31:35 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
I survived an attack today by someone on this forum trying to silence me by getting my account suspended.

All I can say is that I am astounded.

380 posted on 01/14/2006 3:37:15 PM PST by Bahbah (An admitted Snow Flake and a member of Sam's Club)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
I think it's a setup and would not force the issue. Murtha has already lost his military support, he has become his own worst enemy.
381 posted on 01/14/2006 3:38:24 PM PST by John Lenin
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Keep up the good fight, Tonkin!


382 posted on 01/14/2006 3:42:00 PM PST by LUV W (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL.-BD)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
And they did get it suspened, for a few hours, because of my opinions on this very thread.


Sounds like a Kerry mole to me.
383 posted on 01/14/2006 3:46:45 PM PST by Gucho
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Jim Robinson
Unbelievable!

Hope you FReepmailed JR directly.

Your contributions to this site speak for themselves!
384 posted on 01/14/2006 3:47:09 PM PST by 2111USMC
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To: paltz
has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

This is sounding real familiar [Echos of Kerry].

385 posted on 01/14/2006 3:50:04 PM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity ("Sharpei diem - Seize the wrinkled dog.")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

What a cold and heartless place the Free Republic would be without you Tonk!

We are at war, and a man charged with defending this nation is out to destroy the moral of those putting their bodies between this nation and our enemies, and we aren't supposed to say anything about it or question his service record when his own words revealed it may be suspect.

If we stand by and do nothing then we deserve to lose.


386 posted on 01/14/2006 3:54:22 PM PST by usmcobra
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
This thread was a bit interesting when I saw it yesterday. Curious that some FReepers believe that we should leave Murtha's military record alone. The man holds office BECAUSE of his military career.

I suppose that we could find ourselves getting sucked into a trap of some sort by calling for Murtha's records, but that seems unlikely.

If and unless a member of congress has something to hide then they should not be unwilling to have their military files open for public scrutiny.

Keep at it Brother.
387 posted on 01/14/2006 4:01:03 PM PST by Radix (Welcome home 3 ID!)
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To: Radix
"I suppose that we could find ourselves getting sucked into a trap of some sort by calling for Murtha's records, but that seems unlikely."

The worst thing could be that he actualy deserved the awards, but there is always the chance he has had his records "revised".

388 posted on 01/14/2006 4:06:57 PM PST by OldEagle (May you live long enough to hear the legends of your own adventures.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

TOnk, the day you get banned from FR is the day I leave. I thank God everyday for you and men like you. You have taught me so much about what it means to be a REAL hero. *HUGS!*


389 posted on 01/14/2006 4:12:35 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: paltz

John Murtha has claimed the status of " expert witness " on Iraq by virtue of his service in Vietnam.
Expert witnesses are routinely asked , many times under oath, to provide their bona fides for their area of expertise.
It is entirely appropriate to respectfully ask John Murtha to provide information and clarification regarding his service.
I don't know anyone who doesn't have questions regarding Murtha's service and it would seem logical and natural that Murtha would be eager to discuss his military career , to clear up any misunderstandings or misinformation.
His refusal to do so only raises more questions.


390 posted on 01/14/2006 4:16:20 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: StarCMC
Please understand that it was NOT FR suspending me.

It was a certain "FReeper" who has "connections"
with some unknown Moderator.

As you can see they did not succeed.
391 posted on 01/14/2006 4:16:52 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Have you said Thank You to a Service Man or Woman today?)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Here's hoping that the people who tried to silence you feel the wrath of the REAL moderator. FR would never be the same without you. Keep fighting the good fight!


392 posted on 01/14/2006 4:21:03 PM PST by PilloryHillary (Government is the only enterprise in the world which expands in size when its failures increase.)
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To: StarCMC

"TOnk, the day you get banned from FR is the day I leave. I thank God everyday for you and men like you. You have taught me so much about what it means to be a REAL hero. *HUGS!*"

Star..... I'm with you all the way on this.

Uh....with the exception of the "*HUGS*" thing. I'll give Tonk a good solid handshake, instead. :-)


393 posted on 01/14/2006 4:28:17 PM PST by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
When actions or words encourage complacentcy to liberalism, cowardice, or trerason, those actions need to be brought into the light of day for all to see.

From the very first paragraph on the Home Page of FreeRepublic.com:
Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots
conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental
largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes
which further conservatism in America
. And we always have fun doing it.
Hoo-yah!

There is nothing wrong with having a dissenting opinion to one or many members here. Thats what makes this place #1 in my book. But to carry it to the point of getting a member in VERY GOOD standing banned from the forum is beyond the pale.

The actions of the suspected agent(s) provocateur should be laid out for all to see. Post the emails and name the names. It may be time for a little house cleaning!

394 posted on 01/14/2006 4:29:29 PM PST by Delta 21 (MKC USCG-ret)
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To: Delta 21

"To root out Political Fraud"

Smells like Muthra's Purple Hearts...


395 posted on 01/14/2006 4:49:46 PM PST by usmcobra
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To: Delta 21

"Post the emails and name the names."

It would serve no real purpose.

These type of "my way or no way" are just liberals posing as "conservatives"

One by one they expose their true agenda.




396 posted on 01/14/2006 4:50:27 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

I do understand. :o)

Just wanted to state my unabashed loyalty.


397 posted on 01/14/2006 4:50:37 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: Howie66

LOL - works for me! You can just toss those hugs over this way! He he he!!


398 posted on 01/14/2006 4:53:38 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: river rat
Wrong.... Today, Murtha is a traitor or tool of traitors --- while under suspicion for ethics problems --- and we're being asked to cut him slack because he's a "hero". It's NOT out of line when he and his defenders demand that his critics give him "credit" for his "heroic past" while he behaves as a unethical traitor in the present -- during time of war... I suspect the facts will show that Murtha has been a lying, posing asshole for the vast majority of his worthless, lying, cheating, stealing life... Murtha, like Kerry, Kennedy, etc, etc, prove the saying that politicians are our only inherently criminal class. Semper Fi

I'm just not cool that we smear every war-vet Moonbat that comes along. If he was trying to run for "Commander in Chief", then I would be on boad.

Bum a smoke? (That's ex-Navy for Semper Fi)

399 posted on 01/14/2006 4:58:27 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: FreeReign
How do you know the article is way out of line if you don't read it? BTW, Murtha is the one who brought up his service as a qualification for his POV.

Don't you think the Dems knew that we would attack this guys record? Watch the Sunday shows tomorrow and I betcha some 'rat comes brings up the Swifties...

400 posted on 01/14/2006 5:00:54 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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