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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

( - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.

Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.

Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."

In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.

"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.

When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.

"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.

On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.

"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.

"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.

Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.

"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.

But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.

"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.

A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."

Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.

"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."

"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.

In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.

'He's a phony and a liar'

Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.

... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.

Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.

"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.

"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.

In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.

"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.

Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.

"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.

According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"

But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.

"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.

Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.

"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.

"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.

Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'

During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.

"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.

In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.

"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.

"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.

Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.

"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.

The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.

Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.

(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)

Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam

TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; abscam; anotherpurpleowie; cnsnews; exmarine; foundkerrysmedals; liar; murtha; murthamedals; phony; phonyandaliar; purpleheart; purplehearts
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To: paltz

I didn't think liberals liked military people, so why do they want guys like Murtha to be seen as military heroes?

441 posted on 01/14/2006 8:44:01 PM PST by mojojockey
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To: Wristpin

"That guy is wearing all kinds of Army paraphenalia"

Yup, I met those some phonies, also.

We all have, eh?

If folks reaaaally want to find info, check out

Be real!

Nice to see old friends...

442 posted on 01/14/2006 9:03:54 PM PST by JLO (
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
RE: "I survived an attack today by someone on this forum trying to silence me by getting my account suspended. And they did get it suspened, for a few hours,because of my opinions on this very thread."

Well, I suppose it's possible they won't like this one much either...

443 posted on 01/14/2006 9:07:55 PM PST by Seadog Bytes (Benedict Arnold was a 'war hero' too... before he became a TRAITOR.)
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To: river rat

YES! ...and...

444 posted on 01/14/2006 9:10:54 PM PST by Seadog Bytes (Benedict Arnold was a 'war hero' too... before he became a TRAITOR.)
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To: Delta 21; Snickersnee
Here are relevant portions of the Navy Awards Manual pertaining to the "Purple Heart" which you may find of interest:

Definition. A "wound" is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent, sustained while in action as described in the eligibility requirements. A physical lesion is not required, provided the concussion or other form of injury received was a result of the action in which engaged.

Limitations. Except in the case of a prisoner of war, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer at the time of injury. Only one award is authorized for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent. Prisoners of war, if entitled, will be limited to a single Purple Heart covering the entire period of their captivity.

Subsequent awards are denoted by gold and silver stars.

Sea services (USMC is a sea service) use "stars" to indicate multiple awards of the same medal. Army and Air Force use "oak leaf clusters". When a serviceman is awarded the same decoration on multiple occasions by different services (as Delta 21 experienced), the device used to indicate each subsequent award is dictated by the awarding authority. So oak leaf clusters and stars can appear on the same ribbon.

A few other information items which will be of use in wading through Representative Murtha's medal controversy; there is no time limit for submission of recommendation for the "Purple Heart", and the Bronze "V" device for certain awards such as the Bronze Star is correctly termed the "Combat Distinguishing Device".

These decorations are awarded for service to the country while part of its armed forces. They range from "I was there" to "extraordinary heroism". They are a very personal history and should be never be "used". Those who have received these distinctions should be proud.

Those who falsely claim them should be reviled.

445 posted on 01/14/2006 9:25:48 PM PST by DakotaGator
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To: Mr. K

Yes, he signed it but only for the one person/author who wrote a favorable book for him (stolen valor, I think). So in effect, NO he didn't sign it for those of us that would report the facts straight forward, but did sign it so he could say that he did sign it.

446 posted on 01/14/2006 10:52:17 PM PST by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: LowOiL; Mr. K

Kerry Hangs Back From Disclosure to All
The NY Sun June 9, 2005 Josh Gerstein

Did Kerry really release Navy records?
Chicagao Sun Times June 9, 2005 THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB

447 posted on 01/14/2006 11:03:56 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Murthas awards were most likely political. (Surprised?)

Murthas two awards would have been from Democratic Governor Milton Shapp who at the time (1976) had a short lived run for the U.S. Presidency and most likely needed the help of a Democrat US Representative...

Distinguished Service Medal, Pennsylvania's highest honor, 1977.

Meritorious Service Medal, Pennsylvania's second-highest honor, 1976.

About this same time Murtha and then Governor Shapp met with President Carter to help get economic aid for the declining Pittsburgh steel industry.(CBS Evening News for Thursday, Nov 10, 1977)

They were just political favors.
448 posted on 01/15/2006 12:21:28 AM PST by tired&retired
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub


449 posted on 01/15/2006 3:10:25 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: jocko12

Hey you know he did "intel" in Saigon's red light district
and was "injured" in the form of an STD....of course you know that tale is "fake but accurate"
cuing Mary Mapes!Helloooooooooo.....!

450 posted on 01/15/2006 4:07:05 AM PST by mdmathis6 (Proof against evolution:"Man is the only creature that blushes, or needs to" M.Twain)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

It's not okay to ever lie about anything, but I guess I just don't think that it serves much of a purpose to bring something up this many years after it happened. It just looks bad. If this info. has been there all along, why didn't someone say something sooner? It's almost like there are folks who know that someone has done something wrong, but don't care about it until they can find a situation where digging up dirt about that person will benefit them in some way. It's being used as revenge, and I guess it doesn't really seem right to me.

Murtha is all wrong on Iraq, and I think that he can damage his own reputation just fine without others having to dirty their hands by doing so.

451 posted on 01/15/2006 5:22:21 AM PST by fox0566
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To: paltz

Why did I read his name "Mullah" instead of Murtha?

452 posted on 01/15/2006 5:25:30 AM PST by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: dirtboy
A liar is a liar is a liar.

Quite frankly, the fact that Murtha is a Demoncrat, in itself, is reason to doubt any all utterances from his mouth.

Demoncrats use the military, on the whole, for as nefarious reasons as any vicious warmongers who ever existed.

453 posted on 01/15/2006 5:43:48 AM PST by Thumper1960 (The enemy within: Demoncrats and DSA.ORG Sedition is a Liberal "family value".)
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To: paltz

The lunatics at DailyKos have linked to this thread. *snicker*

454 posted on 01/15/2006 7:12:04 AM PST by veronica (....."send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.")
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To: Thumper1960

We know that Muthra is lying about Iraq and that he has been challenged on his lies by soldiers that have returned from Iraq.

As a Military Veteran I feel I have the right to question the circumstances of any awards that any politician uses to persuade those less informed that their own voice is the only voice worth listening to, it is part of the checks and balances this nation requires to survive.

I mean after all, if a CBS news producer with no military experiance what so ever can determine from faked and forged documents that the President was lying about his military service, why shouldn't I be able to use the same or a better standard to examine the records of any EX-Marine hell bent on destroying the moral of our service men and women at war with our enemies.

455 posted on 01/15/2006 8:28:55 AM PST by usmcobra
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To: fox0566; archy; GarySpFc
"It's not okay to ever lie about anything, but I guess I just don't think that it serves much of a purpose to bring something up this many years after it happened."

Murtha reminds me of an O-6 Group Commander I served under in Vietnam. I will not mention his name or unit as one should not speak ill of the dead, but having known this Colonel gives me some insight into what kind of officer Murtha probably was in Vietnam. A few years ago, when I received word my Colonel’s passing, I tried to think of something good to say about him, but I could think of nothing. There must have been something good he did during his year tour in Vietnam, but all I could remember was how he had used his position to scam medals and further his own career; much like what Murtha appears to have done.

My Colonel, like Murtha, commanded from an air-conditioned office in one of Vietnam's beach resort cities. The units that he commanded were scattered throughout the country "From the Delta to the DMZ" so to speak, but when one of his units did battle with the enemy, he would wait until the battle was over and the area had been secured, and then he would swoop in on his personal helicopter full of reporters, journalists, and personal assistants to claim credit for the unit's success in battle. He would pose for photos with the journalists while his personal assistants gathered information to include in the awards for valor that the Colonel would claim for his leadership under fire, and his assistants would dutifully record his helicopter visits as combat assaults that would authorize Air Medals for themselves and for the Colonel. The Colonel's worthless Sergeant Major would reprimand the unit's NCOs for having a very messy battlefield and order them to hold a "police call" post haste, and then they would all load back up on their helicopter and fly back to their beach resort headquarters.

The good Colonel quickly amassed a chest full of medals doing this, but he was missing a Purple Heart for wounds received in combat, so this is what he did: A boil had developed from an ingrown hair on the Colonel’s leg right at the boot top. The Colonel went to the dispensary had the boil lanced and ordered the medic to fill out the form authorizing a Purple Heart. Such news travels fast, and within thirty days of this incident, every soldier in the Colonel’s command throughout the country knew what the Colonel had done to receive a Purple Heart.

An officer cannot do such things as this Colonel did without the troops knowing about it, and when they find out, they lose any respect that they may have for him. Any man who will lie, cheat, and steal medals as this Colonel, John Kerry, and Murtha apparently did will not hesitate to lie, cheat, and steal in any other situation that arises. Murtha’s medals and his ABSCAM connection are more than likely only the tip of the iceberg in his life time record of dishonesty. Murtha’s current lapses of integrity are not a recent event; they are indications of a possible lifetime of duplicity and questionable integrity.

456 posted on 01/15/2006 8:31:20 AM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: RexBeach

Maybe the Dems are doing this in the name of the GOP. Sounds like old school Commie Disinformation.
We shouldnt do this, let this jerks actions today speak volumes about his true intent, the deaths of US service people to bring about shame and the possible downfall of GWB.

457 posted on 01/15/2006 8:35:11 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( Don't crush that Dwarf,hand me the pliers)
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To: paltz

Sounds like Murtha is as big a war hero as McCain.

458 posted on 01/15/2006 8:38:03 AM PST by John D
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To: paltz

Idiots who didn't serve trying to sully someone who did for political gains.

These same folks who say if he came out with "proof" would not accept it anyway.

People who didn't serve who criticize war records of people who put their life on line while the criticizers kept their fat asses pinned to couches are vermin in my opinion.

459 posted on 01/15/2006 8:43:46 AM PST by sakic
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
I suspect few have been in the military and even fewer in a combat theater. FYI...we take being a phony and collecting medals not earned very seriously

I couldn't agree more. There is something fishy about a combat vet saying what he has lately. He should know from having been on the ground, that politicians have little practical impact in the field. His mouth is doing nothing for the soldiers on the ground and only makes our leadership look even more at odds with one another- anyone with children knows you have to have a united front to take on any mission.

While leadership skills have evolved since his time, the one that he doesn't display is support for the mission that "has" to be accomplished. If he truly is a team player, he'd really get down to business and offer his assistance to the decision makers in the military, not the journalists from the press.

Whatever time he put in wearing the uniform has been wiped away by lurking in congress for more than 30 years!

460 posted on 01/15/2006 8:45:39 AM PST by DilJective (Proudly serving in the US Army)
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