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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question
cnsnews.com ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

(CNSNews.com) - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.

Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.

Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."

In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.

"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.

When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.

"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.

On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.

"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.

"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.

Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.

"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.

But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.

"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.

A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."

Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.

"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."

"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.

In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.

'He's a phony and a liar'

Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.

... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.

Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.

"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.

"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.

In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.

"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.

Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.

"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.

According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"

But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.

"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.

Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.

"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.

"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.

Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'

During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.

"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.

In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.

"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.

"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.

Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.

"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.

The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.

Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.

(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)

Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; abscam; anotherpurpleowie; cnsnews; exmarine; foundkerrysmedals; liar; murtha; murthamedals; phony; phonyandaliar; purpleheart; purplehearts
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To: paltz
I am always amazed at the ones who sing their own praise.
Kinda like christians who tell you how "HOLLY" they are.
The true heros don't need to say a thing. And usually when someone does and a true hero hears it, he or she tries to play it down! ! ! !
Not Murtha, Not skerry, and remember our hero ALGORE, The brave ALGORE, who was in more danger living in DC than he ever was in Nam, due to his SS protection. He took a picture of himself with full gear and was looking right in the barrell of his M-16.
51 posted on 01/13/2006 12:28:58 PM PST by DeaconRed (IF . . . . . . . . . . . . . .)
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To: kellynla

We got to choose our battles wisely, IMO.


52 posted on 01/13/2006 12:29:48 PM PST by GSWarrior
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To: Anti-Bubba182

.


53 posted on 01/13/2006 12:30:15 PM PST by Shermy
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To: paltz

"Is this a wise place to go?"

Look, bud, you don't know til you get there. How can you judge the "wisdom" of it ahead of time. The overall principal is this: the truth WILL out. If the guy has fabricated his military record, or if there is sususpicionhe has fabricted it, it should be investigated, and he and anyone else for that matter ought to willing to sign whatever they need to sign to let it happen.


54 posted on 01/13/2006 12:30:50 PM PST by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: paltz

"Is this a wise place to go?"

Look, bud, you don't know til you get there. How can you judge the "wisdom" of it ahead of time. The overall principal is this: the truth WILL out. If the guy has fabricated his military record, or if there is sususpicionhe has fabricted it, it should be investigated, and he and anyone else for that matter ought to willing to sign whatever they need to sign to let it happen.


55 posted on 01/13/2006 12:30:57 PM PST by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: paltz
This is a terrible thing to do, even if true. Republicans better distance themselves from this.

Besides, John Murtha is a self-discrediting machine.

But it is interesting that people with QUESTIONABLE Purple Hearts later QUESTION the US Military. Sounds like some pathological envy condition.
56 posted on 01/13/2006 12:31:59 PM PST by msnimje (Senate Democrats ----------- Sound and Furry Signifying INSIGNIFICANCE)
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To: yldstrk

I think you meant that for me, Bud.


57 posted on 01/13/2006 12:32:20 PM PST by GSWarrior
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To: jjmcgo

"What is the experience of people on this board who were awarded Purple Hearts? Did the military inform you that you were getting one or did you have to beg, like Kerry and Murtha?"

I got hit the first week I was in Nam.

I didn't know that I had received a PH until a year later when I put on my dress greens.

Semper Fi,
Kelly



58 posted on 01/13/2006 12:32:48 PM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots. Semper Fi!)
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To: paltz
A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

Don Bailey was my congressman back then. I met him several times, and he was a good guy and a good representative for the district. I trusted him. He was a Democrat, but a conservative Democrat --- I guess in the early 80s, you could call him a Reagan Democrat.

His own party redistricted him out of his seat in congress because he wouldn't play ball with them.

I don't know about Murtha's war record or if the medals are deserved or not. What I do know is the guy is a corrupt politician who's in it for the money, not for the good of his constituents. I suspect his jumping on the moonbat bandwagon has more to do with protecting himself than with the good of the country or the troops.

Bribery works with guys like Murtha, and after 16 terms in congress getting his palm greased, extortion works even better.

59 posted on 01/13/2006 12:33:24 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: paltz

Murthas' Military Service Awards (From His Web site)




Distinguished Service Medal of the United States Marine Corps, upon his retirement from the Marine Corps Reserves for 37 years of distinguished service to his country, 1990.

Distinguished Service Medal, Pennsylvania's highest honor, 1977.

Meritorious Service Medal, Pennsylvania's second-highest honor, 1976.

Bronze Star with Combat V, 1966.

Purple Heart, 1966.

Purple Heart, second award, 1966.

Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, 1966.

American Spirit Honor Medal of the Marine Corps Recruit Department, 1952.


60 posted on 01/13/2006 12:35:17 PM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother (Democrats would rather whine than win)
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To: mlc9852

What's sad is he appears to be a fraud who had to lobby for a purple heart for a bruised knee. Sounds like another Democrat War Hero.


61 posted on 01/13/2006 12:36:04 PM PST by NavVet (“Benedict Arnold was wounded in battle fighting for America, but no one remembers him for that.”)
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To: bmwcyle; BufordP; BillF

War hero alert


62 posted on 01/13/2006 12:36:27 PM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother (Democrats would rather whine than win)
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To: oldleft

I would like to know what "served with honor in Viet Nam" means. If it meant anything than at least a thousand names on the Wall in D.C. do not belong there.


63 posted on 01/13/2006 12:37:34 PM PST by gaspar
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To: NormsRevenge

Well Amen to that and of course we should always respect and honor those who have been awarded PHs but not fraudulently as I believe the case is here. Who would not remember where and how he was wounded and how badly?!? SIGN THE FORM 180 Murtha!!

Service record fraud points to a lack of character, honesty and morals, very important attributes in my books. It also dishonors those who earned those decorations the real way and cheapens those very honors, inexcusable!

There sure are a number of wusses on this thread that are scaredy-cats. Where does one stop when it comes to fraud, dishonesty for personal gain? No wonder we're in the shape that we are.

An excellent read on this very thing is B.G. Burkett's STOLEN VALOR, which addressed this very phenomena. Come on folks, get some guts!


64 posted on 01/13/2006 12:37:52 PM PST by brushcop (We lift up our military serving in harm's way and pray for total victory and a safe return.)
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To: paltz

Murtha has shown he can easily be discounted as any kind of "hero". All this he has done to himself, so nothing more needs to be done.


65 posted on 01/13/2006 12:39:10 PM PST by RasterMaster ("Bin Laden shows others the road to Paradise, but never offers to go along for the ride." GWB)
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To: paltz

If his Purple Hearts are in question, it should be brought out. But there's no reason for Republicans to bring it out. The press should dig it out and report the facts. If it's useful in destroying him then so be it. The ends ...


66 posted on 01/13/2006 12:40:21 PM PST by plain talk
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To: paltz

OK, Republicans... Just don't cry about these tactics when you're back in the minority.


67 posted on 01/13/2006 12:41:03 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe (North Texas Solutions http://ntxsolutions.com)
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To: paltz

going here is a bad idea. keep the debate in 2006. this can only backfire. people think murtha is nuts already.


68 posted on 01/13/2006 12:41:20 PM PST by philsfan24
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To: paltz

It's just like posting on FR, you better have legit sources.


69 posted on 01/13/2006 12:42:10 PM PST by wolfcreek
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To: GSWarrior

Well I don't have a problem exposing these "war heroes" like Kerry and let's not forget the clown from GA in a wheelchair who for decades led people to believe he was WIA "hero" when he was actually injured picking up a grenade.

I ran into one of these "heroes" just last week who was trying to pass himself off as a combat Marine.
Took me just three questions to expose him for the fraud he was.

I've seen too many WIA & KIA Marines who rightly deserved a PH to put up with any nonsense from Murtha, Kerry or any of the rest of 'em!!!

Semper Fi,
Kelly


70 posted on 01/13/2006 12:42:45 PM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots. Semper Fi!)
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To: paltz

I've been waiting for this shoe to drop.

Murtha does not seem like a genuine Marine.


71 posted on 01/13/2006 12:43:53 PM PST by angkor
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To: GSWarrior

No, it's not. It's idiotic.

Truth be told, WE HAVE ALREADY BEAT HIM. His point of view has hurt he D's, not helped.

This is literally the ONLY thing we can do to lose the battle at this point.


72 posted on 01/13/2006 12:44:17 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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To: paltz
Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

Hmmm. Medals for being wounded and a democrat refuses to release his records.....damn! I'm sorry but that just sounds so familiar


73 posted on 01/13/2006 12:44:49 PM PST by Bommer (Ted Kenndy - Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life!)
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To: GSWarrior

This is a really bad idea to try this.


74 posted on 01/13/2006 12:46:32 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
MURTHA's record on his website

Distinguished Service Medal of the United States Marine Corps, upon his retirement from the Marine Corps Reserves for 37 years of distinguished service to his country, 1990. Distinguished Service Medal, Pennsylvania's highest honor, 1977. Meritorious Service Medal, Pennsylvania's second-highest honor, 1976. Bronze Star with Combat V, 1966. Purple Heart, 1966. Purple Heart, second award, 1966. Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, 1966. American Spirit Honor Medal of the Marine Corps Recruit Department, 1952.

However in the document provided by his office purportedly from the Marine Corp said: "The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

Now it would seem that he was awarded medals before he was there...move over skerry...you got company!!

75 posted on 01/13/2006 12:47:26 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: NavVet
I never like to question a war veteran's honesty, but I really think Murtha's age is affecting his reasoning. Maybe forced retirement?
76 posted on 01/13/2006 12:47:37 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: paltz

Trying to find fault in someone's war service is not honorable.


77 posted on 01/13/2006 12:48:35 PM PST by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker! (Charlie Mike, son))
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To: paltz; Laurita; CMS; The Sailor; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; Defender2; OneLoyalAmerican; bkwells; ...

"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."


murtha : Pay attention

You have been hanging around to long with cut and run hanoi kerry

The Brothers and Sisters on The Wall know what you have done.

And before you complain about me, I was there also.

DISMISSED!


78 posted on 01/13/2006 12:49:10 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Have you said Thank You to a Service Man or Woman today?)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

If Murtha is refusing to release his military records then he has something to hide.
Point, Game, Set, Match!


79 posted on 01/13/2006 12:51:15 PM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots. Semper Fi!)
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To: paltz
my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down

In Vietnam, it was considered wrong to ask for, or be awarded, a purple heart for injuries that didn't draw blood or require hospitalization. I got hit on the head by a falling tree during a mission and was medevaced and hospitalized. It never occured to me a purple heart was warranted and no one ever suggested I was even entitled to one. These sleazebags who try to pad their Vietnam service to promote their own careers are as despicable.

80 posted on 01/13/2006 12:51:43 PM PST by Casloy
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

bttt


81 posted on 01/13/2006 12:51:55 PM PST by Txsleuth (Thank you to all that donated on the Freepathon...next time more monthlies!!)
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To: paltz
Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records. Instert: Kerry for Murtha, Senate for Congress and youve got a presidential candidate!
82 posted on 01/13/2006 12:54:12 PM PST by HHKrepublican_2 (OP Spread the Truth....http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1535158/posts)
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To: oldleft

Hitler was a message runner between trenches in WW I. He was gassed and badly injured from that. No doubt that contributed to his poor attitude later.


83 posted on 01/13/2006 12:55:30 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

To: Bob
I signed an SF180 and recently received a document dump.

There are a few documents that have no title.

My Proficiency & Conduct sheet has signatures with no titles.

My sick bay sheet shows signatures no titles.

I guess it happens.
85 posted on 01/13/2006 12:56:55 PM PST by stylin19a (God does not apply to your alloted time, the hours spent playing golf.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Bump!


86 posted on 01/13/2006 12:57:00 PM PST by Soaring Feather (~www.proudpatriots.org~Supporting Our TROOPS~Check It Out!~A LIST of WHAT the TROOPS NEED.)
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To: bnelson44
Trying to find fault in someone's war service is not honorable.

It is if you were there and know it is in all likelihood a boldfaced lie!!

87 posted on 01/13/2006 12:57:06 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: paltz

http://www.toontracker.com/lyrics/commander%20mcbragg%20lyrics.htm

One night--the Commander shot a Bengal tiger in his pajamas!
I know because he told me so, but how the tigger got in . . .


88 posted on 01/13/2006 12:58:52 PM PST by tumblindice
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To: Shermy

Thanks for the ping.


89 posted on 01/13/2006 1:00:15 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: paltz

I don't care what he did or didn't do. He DID volunteer to fight for the military, he DID go to Vietnam, he WAS in harm's way.

We shouldn't question that service, nor should that service have any bearing on whether his ideas today make ANY sense, which they don't.

This is different than Kerry running for President citing his war record as a reason he is fit for commander-in-chief.

Whether Murtha served in Vietnam or not would have no bearing on whether he knows what he is talking about today.


90 posted on 01/13/2006 1:00:40 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: paltz

I think asking for a medal is kind of lame. Don't they just award them to deserving people. IMO real heros don't ask for medals OR flaunt them.


91 posted on 01/13/2006 1:00:53 PM PST by TX Bluebonnet
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To: GSWarrior

No it is not.


92 posted on 01/13/2006 1:01:15 PM PST by jveritas (The Axis of Defeatism: Left wing liberals, Buchananites, and third party voters.)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

Let it go....

This isn't a battle that gains anyone anything.

Murtha is already in office, and not trying for a higher one.

It's up to the people of his state to decide whether he should represent them. While I sometimes wonder about the wisdom of the people (think of reelecting Ted Kennedy), I don't question their decisions.

Let it go...


93 posted on 01/13/2006 1:02:03 PM PST by lOKKI (You can ignore reality until it bites you in the ass.)
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To: K-oneTexas

I agree.


94 posted on 01/13/2006 1:03:23 PM PST by moose2004 (You Can Run But You Can't Hide!)
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To: GSWarrior

This is a dead end with a land mine waiting for anyone who enters.


95 posted on 01/13/2006 1:04:12 PM PST by Chaguito
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To: kellynla
It is absolutely stupid to go after an old man military record. He is shooting himself in the foot every day with his cut and run statements about Iraq, and it is utterly stupid to attack his military service in Vietnam because it will generate sympathy toward him.
96 posted on 01/13/2006 1:04:31 PM PST by jveritas (The Axis of Defeatism: Left wing liberals, Buchananites, and third party voters.)
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To: lOKKI

Lets get him out of office!!!!!!


97 posted on 01/13/2006 1:05:40 PM PST by GregB (Republican Senators will pay for Anwar,as God as my Witness!!!!!)
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To: paltz

I don’t have a lot of faith in official records for Purple Hearts, unless the original inpatient files can be located. Even the regular medical records might not be much help. Ours were maintained in the company at Vung Tau. We were operating out of Da Nang, I was wounded at Hue and operated on at Phu Bai.
Mine was the result of holes in my face, left arm and right leg from a 60 mm mortar. I carried my evac tag as a souvenir for years, but as it was written in pencil it didn’t last long. Around my 2nd reenlistment my 201 had it listed as wounds to arm and leg. By my retirement it was down to “wound in leg”.


98 posted on 01/13/2006 1:05:46 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Whether Murtha served in Vietnam or not would have no bearing on whether he knows what he is talking about today.

I do believe it has everything to do with what he is talking about today.. If he wasn't holding out his so called war hero status out as a so called expert on war..no one would listen to him. For those on this thread who say we shouldn't go there...I suspect few have been in the military and even fewer in a combat theater. FYI...we take being a phony and collecting medals not earned very seriously...regardless of who, why and when!!

99 posted on 01/13/2006 1:06:12 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: GSWarrior
Is this a wise place to go?

No. Murtha's not running for president. He's in a safe congressional district (for him). Going after every high profile democrat veteran's service is a dumb move that will play in the hands of the democrats. It worked against John Kerry because of his 1971 senate testimony. Murtha has a long congressional record. That's fair game.

100 posted on 01/13/2006 1:06:14 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("What does a guy have to do to get fired around here?" - Darryl Rogers, former Lions Coach)
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