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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question
cnsnews.com ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

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To: RVN Airplane Driver

It's not okay to ever lie about anything, but I guess I just don't think that it serves much of a purpose to bring something up this many years after it happened. It just looks bad. If this info. has been there all along, why didn't someone say something sooner? It's almost like there are folks who know that someone has done something wrong, but don't care about it until they can find a situation where digging up dirt about that person will benefit them in some way. It's being used as revenge, and I guess it doesn't really seem right to me.

Murtha is all wrong on Iraq, and I think that he can damage his own reputation just fine without others having to dirty their hands by doing so.


451 posted on 01/15/2006 5:22:21 AM PST by fox0566
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To: paltz

Why did I read his name "Mullah" instead of Murtha?


452 posted on 01/15/2006 5:25:30 AM PST by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: dirtboy
A liar is a liar is a liar.

Quite frankly, the fact that Murtha is a Demoncrat, in itself, is reason to doubt any all utterances from his mouth.

Demoncrats use the military, on the whole, for as nefarious reasons as any vicious warmongers who ever existed.

453 posted on 01/15/2006 5:43:48 AM PST by Thumper1960 (The enemy within: Demoncrats and DSA.ORG Sedition is a Liberal "family value".)
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To: paltz

The lunatics at DailyKos have linked to this thread. *snicker*


454 posted on 01/15/2006 7:12:04 AM PST by veronica (....."send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.")
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To: Thumper1960

We know that Muthra is lying about Iraq and that he has been challenged on his lies by soldiers that have returned from Iraq.

As a Military Veteran I feel I have the right to question the circumstances of any awards that any politician uses to persuade those less informed that their own voice is the only voice worth listening to, it is part of the checks and balances this nation requires to survive.

I mean after all, if a CBS news producer with no military experiance what so ever can determine from faked and forged documents that the President was lying about his military service, why shouldn't I be able to use the same or a better standard to examine the records of any EX-Marine hell bent on destroying the moral of our service men and women at war with our enemies.





455 posted on 01/15/2006 8:28:55 AM PST by usmcobra
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To: fox0566; archy; GarySpFc
"It's not okay to ever lie about anything, but I guess I just don't think that it serves much of a purpose to bring something up this many years after it happened."

Murtha reminds me of an O-6 Group Commander I served under in Vietnam. I will not mention his name or unit as one should not speak ill of the dead, but having known this Colonel gives me some insight into what kind of officer Murtha probably was in Vietnam. A few years ago, when I received word my Colonel’s passing, I tried to think of something good to say about him, but I could think of nothing. There must have been something good he did during his year tour in Vietnam, but all I could remember was how he had used his position to scam medals and further his own career; much like what Murtha appears to have done.

My Colonel, like Murtha, commanded from an air-conditioned office in one of Vietnam's beach resort cities. The units that he commanded were scattered throughout the country "From the Delta to the DMZ" so to speak, but when one of his units did battle with the enemy, he would wait until the battle was over and the area had been secured, and then he would swoop in on his personal helicopter full of reporters, journalists, and personal assistants to claim credit for the unit's success in battle. He would pose for photos with the journalists while his personal assistants gathered information to include in the awards for valor that the Colonel would claim for his leadership under fire, and his assistants would dutifully record his helicopter visits as combat assaults that would authorize Air Medals for themselves and for the Colonel. The Colonel's worthless Sergeant Major would reprimand the unit's NCOs for having a very messy battlefield and order them to hold a "police call" post haste, and then they would all load back up on their helicopter and fly back to their beach resort headquarters.

The good Colonel quickly amassed a chest full of medals doing this, but he was missing a Purple Heart for wounds received in combat, so this is what he did: A boil had developed from an ingrown hair on the Colonel’s leg right at the boot top. The Colonel went to the dispensary had the boil lanced and ordered the medic to fill out the form authorizing a Purple Heart. Such news travels fast, and within thirty days of this incident, every soldier in the Colonel’s command throughout the country knew what the Colonel had done to receive a Purple Heart.

An officer cannot do such things as this Colonel did without the troops knowing about it, and when they find out, they lose any respect that they may have for him. Any man who will lie, cheat, and steal medals as this Colonel, John Kerry, and Murtha apparently did will not hesitate to lie, cheat, and steal in any other situation that arises. Murtha’s medals and his ABSCAM connection are more than likely only the tip of the iceberg in his life time record of dishonesty. Murtha’s current lapses of integrity are not a recent event; they are indications of a possible lifetime of duplicity and questionable integrity.

456 posted on 01/15/2006 8:31:20 AM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: RexBeach

Maybe the Dems are doing this in the name of the GOP. Sounds like old school Commie Disinformation.
We shouldnt do this, let this jerks actions today speak volumes about his true intent, the deaths of US service people to bring about shame and the possible downfall of GWB.


457 posted on 01/15/2006 8:35:11 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( Don't crush that Dwarf,hand me the pliers)
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To: paltz

Sounds like Murtha is as big a war hero as McCain.


458 posted on 01/15/2006 8:38:03 AM PST by John D
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To: paltz

Idiots who didn't serve trying to sully someone who did for political gains.

These same folks who say if he came out with "proof" would not accept it anyway.

People who didn't serve who criticize war records of people who put their life on line while the criticizers kept their fat asses pinned to couches are vermin in my opinion.


459 posted on 01/15/2006 8:43:46 AM PST by sakic
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
I suspect few have been in the military and even fewer in a combat theater. FYI...we take being a phony and collecting medals not earned very seriously

I couldn't agree more. There is something fishy about a combat vet saying what he has lately. He should know from having been on the ground, that politicians have little practical impact in the field. His mouth is doing nothing for the soldiers on the ground and only makes our leadership look even more at odds with one another- anyone with children knows you have to have a united front to take on any mission.

While leadership skills have evolved since his time, the one that he doesn't display is support for the mission that "has" to be accomplished. If he truly is a team player, he'd really get down to business and offer his assistance to the decision makers in the military, not the journalists from the press.

Whatever time he put in wearing the uniform has been wiped away by lurking in congress for more than 30 years!

460 posted on 01/15/2006 8:45:39 AM PST by DilJective (Proudly serving in the US Army)
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To: Laurita; CMS; The Sailor; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; Defender2; OneLoyalAmerican; bkwells; ...
EVERYONE READING THIS TAKE NOTE
THE "Move On FReepers" ARE OUT
TO SABOTAGE the 2006 AND 2008 ELECTIONS

I'll bet they were behind the "movement" to get
"the white flag ad" pulled by the GOP.


461 posted on 01/15/2006 8:46:20 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: sakic
I have all the respect for his service, and accept the fact that he has earned those medals. I don't respect someone that needs to remind us everyday they are a hero and represents to us they are an expert.

I did my tour in Vietnam and sure did not want to be there. I am not an expert and am not a hero. I won't pretend that because my number came up in the lottery that I am special. I do want peoples respect that I served and did my job and I expect that the kids that are currently doing their job be supported and respected.

I know these highly trained troops know an awful lot more than I about their equipment and the level of success they are achieving than an old retired marine.

462 posted on 01/15/2006 8:57:08 AM PST by JIM O
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To: veronica

"The lunatics at DailyKos have linked to this thread. *snicker*"

http://stophanoikerry.150m.com

hanoi kerry and his own War Crimes in Vietnam

He was in command of a Swift Boat
and ordered his men to do these things.
Listen to this 1971 audio clip in hanoi kerry's own words.

Listen Here

http://www.streamload.com/jmstein77/Kerry2.mp3

hanoi kerry went before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in 1971
to accuse the United States military
of committing massive numbers of war crimes in Vietnam.

hanoi kerry 1971 TESTIMONY

http://www.c-span.org/vote2004/jkerrytestimony.asp

Legislative Proposals Relating to the War in Southeast Asia Thursday, April 22, 1971
United States Senate, Committee on Foreign Relations, Washington, D.C.


463 posted on 01/15/2006 8:58:10 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BTTT


464 posted on 01/15/2006 8:58:18 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: JIM O

Fair enough and thanks for your service.


465 posted on 01/15/2006 8:58:48 AM PST by sakic
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Good One Tonk!!!


466 posted on 01/15/2006 9:06:03 AM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BTTT


467 posted on 01/15/2006 9:06:11 AM PST by afnamvet
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
I'll always stand by your side...


468 posted on 01/15/2006 9:12:49 AM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Perfect Picture, Tonk! Thank you for Helping me to Never Forget how Close we Came to having this Wicked man as our President!
469 posted on 01/15/2006 9:16:24 AM PST by Kitty Mittens
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

I'd bet that the white flag ad was pulled simply because the Dems caved and most of them distanced themselves from Murtha. You will see the white flag ad or some new ad with the same message in October, and possibly September. How hard-hitting it is and how far ahead of the election it starts running will depend on how well things are going in Iraq. If it's very stable and troop levels are down significantly, it will be very harsh.


470 posted on 01/15/2006 9:19:55 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: DJ Taylor
The Colonel's worthless Sergeant Major would reprimand the unit's NCOs for having a very messy battlefield and order them to hold a "police call" post haste, and then they would all load back up on their helicopter and fly back to their beach resort headquarters.

Sad to say these clowns are still around. In a couple os Squadrons I was the only SNCO in the unit that has been on the front line and I would have listening to herotic adventures of REMF e-9s. he only thing they had going for them is the art of B.S., no substance...Sitting their and listining to these Sgt York want-to-bes would piss me off like you wouldn't believe.


471 posted on 01/15/2006 9:25:35 AM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: DJ Taylor
The Colonel's worthless Sergeant Major would reprimand the unit's NCOs for having a very messy battlefield and order them to hold a "police call" post haste, and then they would all load back up on their helicopter and fly back to their beach resort headquarters.

Sad to say these clowns are still around. In a couple of Squadrons, I was the only SNCO in the unit that has been on the front line and I would have to listen to herotic adventures of REMF E-9s. The, only thing they had going for them is the art of B.S., no substance...Sitting there and listining to these Sgt York want-to-bes would piss me off like you wouldn't believe.


472 posted on 01/15/2006 9:30:30 AM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: paltz

It is predictable that he would be discredited. After all, he does not support the agenda of those who benefit from the war in Iraq. The pattern of such character assassinations are always the same: first, discredit anything positive or good that he has done (war hero). Second, make him out to be insane, or at least a bit flaky.
Murtha is courageous (to speak out against the US staying in Iraq) and sane (it would be insane to want to stay in Iraq much longer, since the US has gained nothing from the war and already it's cost a trillion dollars and over 2000 Americans and 30,000 to 100,000 Iraqis killed, the latter mostly civilians).


473 posted on 01/15/2006 9:36:14 AM PST by cmppc
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To: paltz
All commun...I mean democrats are liars.

Sign the 180 Murtha. Let's see what you've got.

474 posted on 01/15/2006 9:41:01 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Onelifetogive
Sheesh, is there not one actual hero in the who stupid Dim party?

Wes Clark. His Silver Star is the real deal. He volunteered to go to Vietnam and lead an infantry company, and he was hit four times by a sniper during an ambush. He propped himself up against a tree and directed the counterattack. And then he served an entire career.

And the Dems threw him overboard for John Kerry, who did four months, openly betrayed our nation, and then spent the next quarter century (while Wes Clark was serving the U.S. Army) undermining our national defense at every opportunity.

That tells you everything you need to know about their party. Wes Clark is a scary guy, but throwing him under the bus and then calling John Kerry a war hero is beyond the pale.

475 posted on 01/15/2006 9:43:38 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: DJ Taylor
The Colonel's worthless Sergeant Major would reprimand the unit's NCOs for having a very messy battlefield and order them to hold a "police call" post haste, and then they would all load back up on their helicopter and fly back to their beach resort headquarters.

I just came back from church, and after all these years I got pissed off again after reading your post.
476 posted on 01/15/2006 9:44:14 AM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: cmppc

TROLL ALERT....Now like a good little boy get on back to DU...there are men here having a discussion and you wouldn't understand...


477 posted on 01/15/2006 9:48:37 AM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: cmppc
It is predictable that he would be discredited. After all, he does not support the agenda of those who benefit from the war in Iraq.

I warn my wife about people telling war stories...More often (about 75%) then not they are full of it. I haven't yet seen a first-account witness come foward and defend Murtha.


478 posted on 01/15/2006 9:54:06 AM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV
How many Purple Hearts did you receive in Viet Nam?

I don't think it's productive for us to go after Murtha's PH record, but I'd like to note this for the record: In Late 2003, I was asking Freepers who wanted to look into John Kerry's record how many medals they had earned in Vietnam.

So...first you should be given pause because there may be fire producing this smoke, just like there was with Kerry.

And second, maybe you should pause because we who serve in the nation's armed forces serve the people, all the people, not just the ones who have served or won medals, and the citizenry has every right to judge that service.

479 posted on 01/15/2006 9:55:30 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: jjmcgo; RVN Airplane Driver
I have not received a PH (or even served in combat) but I know one guy who refused a PH. He was put in for it by his CO, and when he found out about it he asked him to rescind it. He had taken a small piece of shrapnel (which is still in his arm) during a firefight, and he felt it was not deserving of a medal. Then there's the case of Max Cleland, who was given a PH because his higher-ups considered it the right thing to do for a man so profoundly wounded, even though he was clearly not a victim of enemy action.

So basically, I find it suspicious any time I hear of someone working their chain of command to get a PH.

480 posted on 01/15/2006 10:10:08 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: DJ Taylor
..You nailed it DJ.
481 posted on 01/15/2006 10:10:25 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("fake but accurate": NY Times)
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To: gaspar
I would like to know what "served with honor in Viet Nam" means. If it meant anything than at least a thousand names on the Wall in D.C. do not belong there.

Huh?

482 posted on 01/15/2006 10:19:37 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

This is a sad, but perfect depiction of the Dems. Whoever created this picture, they got right.

I hope it's OK to repost it at other opportune times.

483 posted on 01/15/2006 10:20:45 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Javelina; kellynla
I'm a Marine. If I ever do run for office (doubt that I will), I won't be showing my military records to any of my enemies. It's none of their business. I don't blame him.

Other than the fact that I'm Air Force, i could have written that statement, Javelina. Of course, I can see Kelly's point, because Murtha's claim to fame is being a "war hero," and his whole Iraq shtick is based on the idea that he knows what he's talking about because he was the man in 'Nam.

484 posted on 01/15/2006 10:25:33 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: bnelson44
Trying to find fault in someone's war service is not honorable.

It's something that depends on the circumstances. Kerry, for instance, needed to be exposed.

485 posted on 01/15/2006 10:26:44 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT; paltz
Let me also note this: Benedict Arnold had a fantastic war record.

Let's deal with Murtha's treasonous behavior now. This line of attack has a horrible downside and would gain no real traction. Everybody with a brain knows this guy is an idiot. The panel on Brit Hume laughed out loud at him a few weeks ago because he was saying the trrops coming out of Iraq could be put "close to the region" in Okinawa!

Murtha and every Dem who supports him is shooting at their own foot on full auto. Let's not jump in front of the bullets for them.

486 posted on 01/15/2006 10:32:32 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
My dad refused a Purple Heart in WWII, because he was ashamed to take one with such a slight wound when so many of his fellow soldiers were so seriously hurt.


"Just gimme the aspirin. I already gotta Purple Heart."

487 posted on 01/15/2006 10:38:14 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: cmppc

NB4ZOT


488 posted on 01/15/2006 10:44:13 AM PST by ARealMothersSonForever
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To: DJ Taylor

>>>>likely only the tip of the iceberg

Bump bump

Murtha's support of Wilson's war while on the Defense Appropriations subcommittee created the funding that flowed RIGHT TO Sheik Rahman's cell and flowed right back to our WTC '93.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1489385/posts
My Enemy's Enemy by George Crile


489 posted on 01/15/2006 10:45:44 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Kitty Mittens
Great about page Kitty.

Bush Sr was a good man. Like father like son. I didn't always agree with his politics but I always respected him. He never talked about his service in the Pacific theater during WWII where his plane was shot down landing him in the drink after a combat mission.

The same could be said of Bob Dole. Wounded and spent months in rehab. His hand is withered and useless as a result. No one questions Dole's PH. His withered hand is testimony to his bravery.

These honorable men may have disagreed with how best to proceed during war. But you can rest assured that once the battle was engaged they saluted and said "aye aye sir" and did their damnest to carry out the mission.

Unlike the Kerrys and Murthas of the world.


490 posted on 01/15/2006 11:07:33 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("fake but accurate": NY Times)
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To: cmppc

"(war hero)?"

Hanoi Kerry Timeline of a traitor
includes FBI files

May 1970
Kerry and Julia traveled to Paris, France and met with Madame Nguyen Thi Binh, the Foreign Minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG), the political wing of the Vietcong, and other Viet Cong and Communist Vietnamese representatives to the Paris peace talks, a trip he now calls a "fact-finding" mission.

(U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953, declares it illegal for a U.S. citizen to go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power.)

http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html





491 posted on 01/15/2006 11:10:06 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: cmppc
Free online version of
hanoi kerry's playbook "The New Soldier"
You can read it online right now.


492 posted on 01/15/2006 11:15:49 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: AnAmericanMother

Your dad was a hero. I'm told my grandfather turned down a battlefield commission.


493 posted on 01/15/2006 11:24:25 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: kellynla

I agree. If you're going to ride your war record and hero status to the public trough of Congress, then let's see the real records.


494 posted on 01/15/2006 11:28:45 AM PST by gotribe (Hillary: Accessory to Rape)
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To: sakic
I am not in favor of going after Murtha's war record, which would be at best a dud and at worst shooting ourselves in the foot. That said...

People who didn't serve who criticize war records of people who put their life on line while the criticizers kept their fat asses pinned to couches are vermin in my opinion.

By your standard, the investigative reporter who helped J.G. Burkett bust fake war heroes and write Stolen Valor is "vermin." Last time I checked, we military types served the civilians, not the other way 'round. If someone took the system the United States uses to reward heroes proved in liberating strife and perverted it for his own selfish gain, I support any civilian who would expose that dishonor.

495 posted on 01/15/2006 11:38:12 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: JIM O
I know these highly trained troops know an awful lot more than I about their equipment and the level of success they are achieving than an old retired marine.

Some of his statements about the nature of the mission show that he has no idea what the Corps (and the other services) have been doing to refine doctrine over the last 30 years. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't know who John Boyd is. Most people don't, but a guypassing himself of as an expert on the Marine Corps should, and I bet he has no idea who Boyd is or how his theories have revolutionized the Corps.

496 posted on 01/15/2006 11:41:58 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

thanks for the ping


497 posted on 01/15/2006 11:55:59 AM PST by vigilante2 (I'm the proud parent of a soldier)
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To: Mr. Silverback

When mutha started hanging out with code pink he's fair game!

The GOP controls the White House and the Congress

President Bush does not have to worry about re-election

So bring back the white flag ad,
expose the frauds,
and demand access to ALL military records!

AND THROW HANOI KERRY out of the US Senate
BEFORE he run's in '06!


498 posted on 01/15/2006 11:58:33 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Never Forget)
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To: Prime Choice; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

ping


499 posted on 01/15/2006 12:08:27 PM PST by Seadog Bytes (Benedict Arnold was a 'war hero' too... before he became a TRAITOR.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks for the ping!


500 posted on 01/15/2006 12:40:57 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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