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Iran commissions locally built submarine (PHOTOS)
By: Associated Press ^

Posted on 01/15/2006 4:30:21 AM PST by Khashayar

Iran on Sunday commissioned its second domestically built submarine, a craft that can fire missiles and torpedoes simultaneously, state-run radio reported.

The report said the submarine, named Ghadir, was Iran's second homemade submarine, and was unveiled during the third day of military maneuvers in southern Iran.

Iran's armed forces began their biggest military maneuvers Friday in the Sea of Oman and the Indian Ocean on Iran's territorial waters close to Pakistan and involved submarines, warships, missiles, jet fighters and gunships.

In May, Iran officially launched the production of the locally built submarine, claiming it was a stealth craft.

Its name, Ghadir, is derived from a site in the Arabian Peninsula holy to Shiite Muslims, the overwhelming majority of Iran's 69 million people.

Iran produces the Shahab-3 missile, capable of reaching Israel and U.S. forces stationed in the region. Since 1992, it also has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, missiles and a fighter plane.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ahmadinejad; armsbuildup; gwot; iran; navy; nuclear; sub; submarine
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To: Brooklyn Kid

"I don't think our military analysts are laughing. They may have chuckled in the first few seconds after seeing it, but they know the potential for destruction one of these things has."

Of course they know the score and are planning for every contingency. We should have complete confidence in our military(I do).
A few laughs are good for the soul however. It's one of the best things about hanging out around here.


101 posted on 01/15/2006 6:40:58 AM PST by penelopesire
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To: Smokin' Joe

This sub could possibly transport a nuke on a suicide mission!


102 posted on 01/15/2006 6:41:17 AM PST by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia

Yes. It's a container for anything they wish.


103 posted on 01/15/2006 6:45:28 AM PST by Brooklyn Kid (What's it to ya? ) ((....west of the Jordan, east of the Rock of Gibraltar.................))
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To: penelopesire
The Littoral Zone is the area from the beach to about 600 ft. (100 fathoms, or 183 meters) of water.

Imagine trying to perform submarine operations, or even surface naval ops there. Bathymetry may be changeable and complex. Fresh, brackish, and salt water masses may be present and mixing (which would significantly complicate sonar interpretation). Turbidity may mask visual sightings from the air as well.

It is an environment especially well suited to shallow draft, fast, maneuverable vessels, and can provide a significant home turf advantage.

Small, quiet subs which can lay doggo in the right places and fast gunboats/missile boats would be especially well suited to fight in this environment.

Survivability might be low, but the emphasis is on destroying superior forces with lesser vessels(--right up a jihadi's alley).

Air power can be a decisive factor.

All things being equal, though, I guess it would be the equivalent of a bar room brawl on a school bus, driving in and out of darkened tunnels.

104 posted on 01/15/2006 6:45:36 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia

Yep! That little mudpuppy is no joke if it works.


105 posted on 01/15/2006 6:46:39 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: penelopesire

Sure. I understand. I have a sense of humor, too :- )


106 posted on 01/15/2006 6:47:01 AM PST by Brooklyn Kid (What's it to ya? ) ((....west of the Jordan, east of the Rock of Gibraltar.................))
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To: Smokin' Joe

Thanks for the info. So this submarine is not something that could make it to our shores with a nuke and would be used mainly for a defense of their own waters? Just curious how far this sub could travel.


107 posted on 01/15/2006 6:51:59 AM PST by penelopesire
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To: Axlrose

Quiet until the call to prayer is broadcast throughout the boat.

Seriously,

It'll show up like a Kmart bluelight special on active sonar.


108 posted on 01/15/2006 6:55:36 AM PST by TFMcGuire
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To: penelopesire

I doubt it would have the fuel capacity to make it to North America without a tender. Even the U boats rendezvoused with submarine tenders or specially modified 'milch cow' submarines to take on fuel and supplies.


109 posted on 01/15/2006 6:56:39 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Well, that is good to know.
I guess the next question is whether or not the Iranians have 'tenders'.


110 posted on 01/15/2006 7:04:46 AM PST by penelopesire
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To: ChefKeith; Doohickey; judicial meanz; submarinerswife; PogySailor; chasio649; gobucks; ...

Interesting. The Iranians have built themselves a terrorist transporter. Judging by its size and color, it's not meant to venture out much past the Straits of Hormuz.

Doubt it has much offensive punch. If it does have torpedo tubes, I'd be surprised if it has more than two. Tube-loaded missiles are probably not an option. I doubt it has an ejection pump to push a rocket clear of the hull. Also looks like it needs to be surfaced to fire that little launcher on the forward deck.

It's a problem for the merchant traffic that flows in and out of the Gulf. Not so much for warships, but stranger things have happened. Recall that Iran has recently deployed surface-to-surface missiles in the straits as well. Something is going to have to be done soon. Iran must not posess the ability to shut down the Persian Gulf.


111 posted on 01/15/2006 7:12:45 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: PeteB570
Lots of ex-sub folks around here. Any professional opinions?

I'll take a stab at it. I took as good of a look as I can at it, and it seems like it is designed more for a littoral role ( coastal- near coastal) than a deep ocean role.

Visibly, it has a snorkel mast, radar, vhf or uhf radio antennae, and periscope. The sail looks to be kind of cheaply built, and the superstructure appears to be built over the pressure hull.

I couldnt figure out what the round barrel shaped assembly was that appears to be welded to the forward deck, but it looks a lot like a life raft cannister.

I cannot see any weapons systems visible, but that doesnt mean it doesnt have any. They may have the torpedos arranged external to the hull or carry them internally, depending on space. They may also have shoulder fired weapons for self defense stowed inside the vessel.

My bet would be on it being a copy of some type of a North Korean mini-submarine design. They probably will use it for personnel insertion/extraction, shipping attacks in coastal or near coastal waters, and intel gathering. I dont think it is useful or well designed enough to operate in the deep water arena

112 posted on 01/15/2006 7:42:10 AM PST by judicial meanz (Progressive liberals and Stalinists; tell me exactly where they are different in their beliefs?)
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To: AmericaUnited

heh heh heh


The Hunley was the first thought that crossed my mind when I saw the picture.


113 posted on 01/15/2006 7:54:47 AM PST by SmithL (Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Lift up your gates and sing, Hosana in the highest! Hosana to your King!)
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To: Smokin' Joe

"......Small, quiet subs which can lay doggo in the right places and fast gunboats/missile boats would be especially well suited to fight in this environment.

Survivability might be low, but the emphasis is on destroying superior forces with lesser vessels(--right up a jihadi's alley).

Air power can be a decisive factor."



The thought of catching hard targets in shallow water must give some of our Orion or Viking ASW types a......well, great feeling of enthusiasm.

Only bad news is that they might run out of targets before they all get to fire live rounds.


114 posted on 01/15/2006 8:21:40 AM PST by Unrepentant VN Vet (I can't really accept a welcome home until the last MIA does.)
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To: Unrepentant VN Vet
Probably have the ASW guys creaming their jeans, at least until the first warhead went critical. That might mess with the avionics a tad.

We have to remember that (enough of) these guys just don't think like normal people.

115 posted on 01/15/2006 8:30:29 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Khashayar

BTTT


116 posted on 01/15/2006 8:43:58 AM PST by Fiddlstix (Tagline Repair Service. Let us fix those broken Taglines. Inquire within(Presented by TagLines R US))
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: solitas
Good point. It doesn't have to fire torpedoes as long as it can stay down a decent length of time, run fairly quietly, have a good cruising range, and carry a suicide-nuke.

I wondered how long it would take for some one to state the obvious.

118 posted on 01/15/2006 8:55:51 AM PST by MistrX
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To: Doohickey
What is the cylindrical object on the deck forward of the sail? Is this the "missile" referenced in the article? It looks too small to contain a useful anti-ship missile such as the Exocet.

Maybe they adapted something smaller they already have in their inventory (Maverick or TOW?) to fire from a waterproof canister attached externally to the sub. A launcher for unguided rockets is another possibility. The North Koreans use a lot of unguided rockets on small surface ships.

This sub would certainly have to surface to fire such a weapon making it very vulnerable. I suspect talk of a missiles is Iranian disinformation: Torpedoes or mines would be far more effective.

119 posted on 01/15/2006 9:08:34 AM PST by Mad_as_heck (The MSM - America's (domestic) public enemy #1.)
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To: Khashayar
Park it on the bottom, wait for a tanker. Kaboom. Cars make noisy suicide bombers. Why not noisy subs?

I'd be placing sonar arrays (if they aren't already)all over the Gulf.

120 posted on 01/15/2006 9:16:45 AM PST by llevrok (Drink your beer, damnit! There are people in Africa sober!.)
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To: moose2004

It would have been a good thing to have had him slumped over the hatch.


121 posted on 01/15/2006 9:21:01 AM PST by FreeAtlanta (never surrender, this is for the kids)
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To: Mad_as_heck

You people can make jokes and laugh all you want but I, personally, would take this sub seriously. I am an old diesel powered submariner who served for a time on the small "T" boats. In fact, the same one Jimmy Carter served on but not at the same time (Thank the good Lord). They usually have 4 torpedo tubes forward but I do think they are saying too much when it comes to missle launches. Maybe hand held from the deck These boats can be very quiet and hard to detect when running submerged on battery. I remember eluding the Navy's best back in the 60's. Often they knew we were there but not exactly where. I believe this sub could be a major threat but would most likely have to stay close to home and not a deep water vessel. IMHO!


122 posted on 01/15/2006 9:42:48 AM PST by tryon1ja
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To: SoothSayerONETIME

Most U.S Navy, and other nations ships, are painted 'haze grey' to make them less visible.

It seems that the Iranians missed this subtle difference and want their 'great' submarine to be seen.


123 posted on 01/15/2006 9:46:57 AM PST by dglang
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To: llevrok

As a former ASW guy I can assure you that we will be able to detect and destroy these boats if it becomes necessary.

We have technology available for dealing with exactly this type of threat.

D/E boats do have a low amplitude signature because they do not have to continually run reactor coolant pumps, but they are NOT undetectable.



124 posted on 01/15/2006 9:47:57 AM PST by EEDUDE (Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.)
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To: Khashayar

After getting "pinged" and the firing solution completed.. makes a good target.. and nobody would ever know it was gutted like a fish except the sonar guys(the pingees).. To the owners of this target.. it would just disappear.. by mysterious circumstances..


125 posted on 01/15/2006 9:53:10 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: EEDUDE

I have heard these brags before. There once was a gunnery officer on a certain surface ship who made the brag we never got close enough to their ship to shoot a torpedo at them. Our captain gave them a picture of their ship taken by our periscope. It took 3 pictures to get the whole ship shown because they were so close. Sure you can detect them but sometimes you can't find them. Thermo layers and other evasive devices often make the task very hard.


126 posted on 01/15/2006 9:54:15 AM PST by tryon1ja
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To: dglang

When it is submerged, it doesn't make any difference what color the ship is painted. Ever see the movie Operation Pink Petticoat?


127 posted on 01/15/2006 9:57:34 AM PST by tryon1ja
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To: tryon1ja
Operation Pink Petticoat?

Cary Grant, Tony Curtis.

and the great line = "Out of confusion comes profits". said by Tony, the boat's "scrounger".

128 posted on 01/15/2006 9:59:14 AM PST by llevrok (Drink your beer, damnit! There are people in Africa sober!.)
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To: Khashayar
....was Iran's second homemade submarine,

It indeed looks like it was made in someone's home.

129 posted on 01/15/2006 10:01:42 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: tryon1ja

I saw it, it was named 'Operation Petticoat' with no pink in it.

In the movie, the pink sub was sighted by the Japs and announced to their forces. We intercepted the radio message and were looking for it also because we had no pink sub and thought it was an enemy trap.

In the real world, movies are a welcome diversion and fantasy, but seldon reflect the real truth. I wouldn't build any strategy on what happens in a movie.


130 posted on 01/15/2006 10:08:10 AM PST by dglang
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To: dglang
Just because I joked about something in a movie does not mean I was not there in the real world for about 7 and half years. I do not think people should take Iran's sub as a joke. Also, the ships are painted grey and black for surface detection. Most submarines are similar in color or all black. I agree. However, green would not be an easily detected color especially in and around the coastlines. I have seen ocean water the same color of the submarine.
131 posted on 01/15/2006 10:19:03 AM PST by tryon1ja
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To: Doohickey

Looks like a one way ticket to me.


132 posted on 01/15/2006 10:23:30 AM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: llevrok

Cary Grant, Tony Curtis.

and the great line = "Out of confusion comes profits". said by Tony, the boat's "scrounger".

That is the movie. I remember our boat was often that color when we put the red lead on before the finish coat. Once we painted the inside T**tie pink sand. The old man thought it was nice. It was very hard to keep clean but it was "different" than the usual light green.


133 posted on 01/15/2006 10:24:39 AM PST by tryon1ja
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To: penelopesire

There are tenders and then ther are tenders. This puppy looks like it just might fit in a container, which could be "lost" at sea near a port or shipping lane...


134 posted on 01/15/2006 10:38:53 AM PST by null and void (We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the Garden)
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To: A.Hun

Hey, I had one of those!


135 posted on 01/15/2006 10:40:32 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Doohickey

Addenda. Does the green color bely anything about its operational depth.....or is this just a show boat?


136 posted on 01/15/2006 10:42:21 AM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: BIGLOOK

Green is the color of islam.


137 posted on 01/15/2006 10:43:52 AM PST by null and void (We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the Garden)
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To: PeteB570
Iran bought some mini-subs from North Korea. This is a local copy. They have little seaworthiness, but can tool out into the gulf and lay a couple of mines some night, and then come back before dawn. About all they are good for. (NKs also use them to infiltrate single intelligence agents).
138 posted on 01/15/2006 10:44:30 AM PST by JasonC
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To: null and void

How would it get out of the container though? (wink..just razing you a bit) Where there is a will, there is a way and we should put nothing past the enemy.


139 posted on 01/15/2006 10:46:17 AM PST by penelopesire
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To: penelopesire

Good point. Maybe it wouldn't?


140 posted on 01/15/2006 10:49:10 AM PST by null and void (We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the Garden)
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To: Khashayar

I hope this sub is vewwwwwwwry, vewwwwwwy quiet.....

Navy Sonarmen love finding and prosecuting new noises under water. Especially if the crew is busy praying five times a day.

Looks very much like a brand new target to me.

Jack


141 posted on 01/15/2006 10:49:37 AM PST by Jack Deth (Knight Errant and Disemboweler of the WFTD Thread)
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To: tryon1ja
Once we painted the inside T**tie pink sand. The old man thought it was nice.

a side bar - behaviorists found, some years ago, that painting police drunk tanks hot pink has a very effective calming impact on drunks and drug addicts

The old man must have read that study and applied it to his crew!

Thanks for your service. I have a submarine "jones" and love stories of the dark, deep.

Patrick Robinson writes great submarine thrillers (ala Tom Clancey). A number of them deal with Iranian and Kilo class subs, coincidentally.

142 posted on 01/15/2006 10:50:31 AM PST by llevrok (Drink your beer, damnit! There are people in Africa sober!.)
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To: R. Scott
From the link:

"One foreign military attaché in Tehran said the vessels appeared to be well-engineered but he doubted they had much ballistic capability and were most likely to be used for ferrying troops."

LOL... From its looks, it will ferry about five troops at a time.

143 posted on 01/15/2006 10:50:35 AM PST by RJL
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To: Khashayar

Old Ahmanizan seems totally impressed with that boat. Not. Still, it would be interesting to have one of those instead of a sailboat for getaway weekends.


144 posted on 01/15/2006 10:53:21 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: RJL

How many trops does it take to assassinate a leader?

Remember our Austrian 'friends' sold Iraq 800 sniper rifles...


145 posted on 01/15/2006 10:54:33 AM PST by null and void (We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the Garden)
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To: null and void

'trops' = 'troops' Talk about a Freudian typo!


146 posted on 01/15/2006 10:55:43 AM PST by null and void (We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the Garden)
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To: Khashayar
why you inserted your comment when you are no expert!

Right, that's what it is on this BBS, just the experts. The real experts are kind of busy right now, so we're the substitute experts.

147 posted on 01/15/2006 10:58:33 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: RightWhale

New tagline


148 posted on 01/15/2006 10:59:15 AM PST by null and void (The real experts are kind of busy right now, so we're the substitute experts.)
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To: dglang

The boats are painted according to their mission. There are about four major colors for submarines--light gray, dark gray, blue, and green. One of the colors is light green: where would that one be stationed?


149 posted on 01/15/2006 11:01:52 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: llevrok
I am not much of a novel reader. I guess I do enough other kind of reading throughout the day that I kill the desire to read further. However, I think I have seen just about every submarine movie made. (May have missed a few, especially foreign ones). I do know a few interesting real life stories. Some of the facts may still be classifed, maybe not. The time I spent riding the boats was one of the best times of my life. I am very thankful that this country gave me the opportunity to spend time on her magnificant war ships. I also got to ship out on an ASW air craft carrier for awhile so I had the chance to see both sides of the hunt and hide game. I call it a game because most of the time we spent practicing as if it was a game in order to be ready for the real thing.
150 posted on 01/15/2006 11:02:00 AM PST by tryon1ja
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