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New evidence renews conspiracy debate [OKC bombing update]
The Kansas City Star ^ | Jan. 15, 2006 | By JUDY L. THOMAS

Posted on 01/15/2006 6:07:14 AM PST by johnny7

Kenneth Trentadue was no angel. In the 1980s, he did time for robbing banks. But in a strange twist, the circumstances behind his violent death 10 years ago in prison are playing out in federal court in a case that hints at a wider conspiracy in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Recently released documents unearthed because of a lawsuit against the FBI suggest that the long-standing allegations may not be so far-fetched. The lawsuit, brought by Trentadue’s brother, Jesse, has convinced a federal judge in Salt Lake City to order the FBI to produce hundreds of sealed documents in recent months, and even members of Congress are backing him in his fight for additional information.

(Excerpt) Read more at kansascity.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Oklahoma; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: fbicrimes; okcbombing; saddamhussein

1 posted on 01/15/2006 6:07:16 AM PST by johnny7
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To: johnny7

Jayna Davis, "The 3rd Terrorist" is a must read.


2 posted on 01/15/2006 6:08:54 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: johnny7

These threads always crack me up because you know a lot of FReepers eagerly begin to read them expecting to hear tales of hordes of Muslim Arab terrorists being involved just like most of the stuff they've read on FR and WND and whatnot before, only to find stuff about Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists and Elohim City and whatnot and no mention of Muslims or Arabs...they tend not to get many replies.


3 posted on 01/15/2006 6:11:45 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: johnny7
The John Doe II Times
4 posted on 01/15/2006 6:21:31 AM PST by gaijin
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To: Strategerist

That may be true, but there was a reporter on Art Bell last night who said Timothy McVeigh placed tons of calls to the Phillipines before the OKC bombing occured. I know they have some wackos on that show, but this person sounded fairly normal.


5 posted on 01/15/2006 6:23:24 AM PST by keithtoo (Global Warming causes everything, and everything causes Global Warming.)
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To: Strategerist

Why was this man murdered in federal custody? Why did the federal government lie about what happened there, includin producing a roll of "evidence" film taken in his jail cell, on which the images are provably out of order? (In other words, they were taken in a different order than they appear on film.) Conspiracy and coverup at the highest levels, irrespective of the involvement of racists and bigots.


6 posted on 01/15/2006 6:24:29 AM PST by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: Strategerist

Ever read Davis's book?


7 posted on 01/15/2006 6:25:59 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Strategerist
expecting to hear tales of hordes of Muslim Arab terrorists

You mean the thousands of iraqis re-populated to the area by the bush administration following Gulf Military Action I?

8 posted on 01/15/2006 6:26:55 AM PST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: Strategerist

Who are you... Bill Gertz?


9 posted on 01/15/2006 6:27:39 AM PST by johnny7 (“Iuventus stultorum magister”)
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To: Strategerist
only to find stuff about Neo-Nazis

Paul Bremmer is being interviewed on Meet the Press this morning. One interesting comment he made to Russert: Saddam Hussein patterned his government (control) on Hitler's control in Germany.
10 posted on 01/15/2006 6:27:40 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: TomGuy

And, unfortunately for Saddamn, his record-keeping practices as well.


11 posted on 01/15/2006 6:28:37 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: keithtoo

Terry Nichols was married to a muslim Phillipina, and he made numerous trips to the Southern Phillipines, where Abu Sayef operates, mostly with impunity.


12 posted on 01/15/2006 6:32:18 AM PST by gaijin
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To: johnny7
…and that both sported a tattoo of a dragon on their left arms.

Oh no – I have a tattoo of a dragon on my left arm!

The medical examiner later said that if indeed it was a hanging, it was the bloodiest and most violent one he had ever handled.

A medical examiner’s report shows he contacted Justice Department representatives, telling them that although he could not determine the exact cause of death, he thought Kenneth Trentadue had been tortured.

He was determined to commit suicide. < /sarcasm>
13 posted on 01/15/2006 6:33:01 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: johnny7
From the article:

In November, Trentadue filed more documents in court, including a sealed transcript of a hearing in an unrelated case. At the hearing, a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent said that prior to the bombing, an undercover informant at Elohim City told authorities of a threat to blow up federal buildings. The informant’s testimony, however, was not allowed at McVeigh’s trial.

How many times has the BATF(E) denied that they had an informant in Elohim City, and specifically denied that they even knew who Carol Howe was?

(The New American had this right all along.)

14 posted on 01/15/2006 6:33:48 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: johnny7

His attorney brother is sure stretching things. Ok, let's see. 1) Kenneth Trentadue had the dragon tatoo on his left arm. 2) His hobby was robbing banks. 3) Who's to say Bubba & Co didn't work him over and that's why he hung himself. 4) It's hogwash to say he looks anything like John Doe #2.


15 posted on 01/15/2006 6:36:52 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: Smokin' Joe

MORE covered-up evil from the KLIN-TON administration.


16 posted on 01/15/2006 6:38:26 AM PST by Jazzman1 (lol)
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To: TomGuy

Actually Saddam patterned himself after Stalin - not Hitler.


17 posted on 01/15/2006 6:41:08 AM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: johnny7

maybe Strategerist is just generalizing based on their own experience


18 posted on 01/15/2006 6:43:22 AM PST by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
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To: mtbopfuyn
3) Who's to say Bubba & Co didn't work him over and that's why he hung himself.

Let's look at another posibility, I'm not saying it's correct: 1) The perp was beaten up in a dust-up with prison guards. 2) He hung himself. 3) The attorney is on a fishing expedition for personal reasons. We don't know squat about this.

19 posted on 01/15/2006 6:44:23 AM PST by bkepley
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To: johnny7
On his bomb truck drive to OKC, McVeigh stopped to stay the night at a highway-side hotel. The hotel name had some name like, "Stardust Inn", something like that.

They were afraid of driving the truck around town more than absolutely necessary, and they ordered Chinese take-out to their hotel room.

The man who delivered the food to the hotel room told the FBI that while there he had seen a man in the room with McVeigh, and he looked like a Middle-Easterner.

20 posted on 01/15/2006 6:45:02 AM PST by gaijin
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To: Jazzman1

During the 9/11 Commission Lehman asked Louis Freeh if the was any truth to the "Third Terrorist" information. His eyes kind of shifted and he replied "I've never heard of it". Lehman never asked a follow up question. It smells.


21 posted on 01/15/2006 6:45:09 AM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: johnny7

Jose Padilla is on record as speaking spanish, english and arabic.

He's my candidate for John Doe # 2.


22 posted on 01/15/2006 6:45:10 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Nobody will be asked.)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

I agree. He's a dead ringer. Obviously the Feds believe that there is something "special" about Padilla too. One day we'll find out what the deal is with him.


23 posted on 01/15/2006 6:50:32 AM PST by toomanygrasshoppers ("In technical terminology, he's a loon")
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
JD2's name is Mark Brecia --I may have misspelled that a little. The FBI has known about him for quite some time.

But it is true that one of the fastest-growing ethnicities into which Islam is making inroads is among Hispanics. They are recruited in US prisons, but more and more in Mexico.

24 posted on 01/15/2006 6:52:14 AM PST by gaijin
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To: Jazzman1

Say, when was the Gorelick memo written, anyway? Was that before or after the OKC Bombing? That would have prevented this info getting from agency to agency...


25 posted on 01/15/2006 6:53:04 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: R. Scott

Yeah... I once cut my throat and beat the sh_t out of myself... only to chicken-out when it came to the hanging part. I also know a lot of goombah's who committed suicide with two-in-the-cap.


26 posted on 01/15/2006 6:53:05 AM PST by johnny7 (“Iuventus stultorum magister”)
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To: mtbopfuyn
4) It's hogwash to say he looks anything like John Doe #2.

There are still some 27 surveillance videos from the areas near the Murrah Building the morning of the bombing. Those videos are locked way by the FBI. Isn't it curious that none of them have been broadcast.
27 posted on 01/15/2006 7:07:05 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: Strategerist

It may be because a lot of us have read The Third Terrorist and agree with James Woolsey, former CIA Director, that when the truth is known about OKC, the world will owe a debt of gratitude to the author, Jayna Davis.

And so, when we read contrary theories about who was REALLY behind the bombing, we don't belive them. Because Davis's work was so compelling.


28 posted on 01/15/2006 7:22:20 AM PST by Peach
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To: gaijin

I don't find anything on that name or close to it in spelling.

I'm not one of those crybabies who wants you to do my research for me, but how about another hint?


29 posted on 01/15/2006 7:27:49 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Nobody will be asked.)
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To: gaijin

Never mind, got him. Will read.


30 posted on 01/15/2006 7:30:42 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Nobody will be asked.)
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To: TomGuy
Most interesting as are many other occurrences like how did he have his car there as he drove the truck. And that undirected open air blast shearing concrete support towers really puzzles me. Wonder if it could be duplicated.

mc
31 posted on 01/15/2006 7:31:36 AM PST by mcshot (Rusty but trusty or vice versa.)
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To: Strategerist

Nazis and Muslim Jihadis have a long history of cooperation.


32 posted on 01/15/2006 7:36:03 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Nobody will be asked.)
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To: gaijin
Terry Nichols was married to a muslim Phillipina

If this guy was a white supremacist, he wasn't very good at it.

33 posted on 01/15/2006 7:49:29 AM PST by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
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To: johnny7
I admit to not having read Davis' book,
I'm now working on Woods' Politically Incorrect History...so far not impressed.
I'll get to the Third Terrorist.

However, I've followed in FR and retain total belief in a cover up of some sort, for three reasons:

1) The JFK killing, the Hoover Commission & everything subsequent to them.
2) Inherent cynicism, in part due to number 1..
3) If the FBI could make a case against ANY white supremacist group - without admitting that 66% of the members were FBI themselves - Clinton would have been all over the media telling how he'd single handedly discovered the heart and soul of the vast right wing conspiracy.

34 posted on 01/15/2006 7:50:15 AM PST by norton
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To: johnny7

Reminds me of the biker in Florida who committed suicide by shooting himself six times in the back while in custody. Dedicated people.


35 posted on 01/15/2006 8:15:25 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: johnny7
More dis-information...Doesn't matter because we KNOW who really did it.

Now let's get back to 'Able Danger'. OR Flight 800.

36 posted on 01/15/2006 8:19:40 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Strategerist
What would be the compelling reason for the Clinton led agencies to suppress information on a wider conspiracy involving neo-nazis and white supremacists?
37 posted on 01/15/2006 8:22:21 AM PST by Dolphy
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To: Strategerist
I'm open to any of this. However, there is good evidence that a) neither McVeigh nor Nichols had any real bomb-making skills, and certainly not of the type that would have enabled them to make the ANFO bomb at OKC; and 2) the connections between Nichols and one of the Muslim bombers in the first WTC bombing in the Philippines, while not proven, have not been conclusively disproven either.

When you add to that that the police sketch of John Doe #3 is a damn near PERFECT match to Jose Padilla, you really do have to start looking at Muslims/Arab terrorists and not a bunch of Klannish bank robbers. (And, there is no evidence, AT ALL that these bank robbers practiced "terroristm" as in blowing up buildings.)

38 posted on 01/15/2006 8:34:00 AM PST by LS
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To: keithtoo

Nichols, not McVeigh, placed the calls to the Philippines, and was IN the Phillippines, in the SAME CITY, as, (could be wrong on the specific terrorist) I think, Ramsi Yousef in previous months. There is circumstantial evidence that, in fact, Nichols and (again, I think it's Yousef) could ahve met.


39 posted on 01/15/2006 8:35:30 AM PST by LS
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To: johnny7

This is an argument against the death penalty. Information, possibly valuable, died with McVeigh.


40 posted on 01/15/2006 9:05:20 AM PST by Savage Beast (Why George W. Bush is a Great President in five words or less: 9/11 was never repeated.)
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To: johnny7

Foil hat time.

I suspect this is disinformation to take the heat of the real John Doe 2 Jose Padilla who is a dead ringer for the police skeh.


41 posted on 01/15/2006 12:59:57 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Slay Pinch)
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To: johnny7

Marking to read later...


42 posted on 01/15/2006 6:41:06 PM PST by MizSterious (Anonymous sources often means "the voices in my head told me.")
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To: Savage Beast

So you think McVeigh is really dead? I've always had my doubts about that. It was just too pat, too quick. Real life isn't that cut and dried and certainly there hasn't been any execution in decades, perhaps even a century to occur that fast.

Also, don't you think McVeigh had the look and bearing of an officer doing his duty? I think the whole OKC bombing was a huge government FUBAR and the simple way to fix it was to have McVeigh as the fall guy. Everybody's happy now. The bad guy is dead.


43 posted on 01/15/2006 11:20:22 PM PST by Auntie Mame ("If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." --Grandma)
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To: Auntie Mame

Honestly, I hadn't thought of that. Who knows? I do find it difficult to believe that the Oklahoma City bombing had nothing to do with the clandestine war that Islamic extremists were waging against the U.S. the time, a war that became overt on September 11, 2001.


44 posted on 01/16/2006 7:09:37 AM PST by Savage Beast (Why George W. Bush is a Great President in five words or less: 9/11 was never repeated.)
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