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Fifth generation Russian fighter plane to be ready in 2007
RIA Novosti ^

Posted on 01/18/2006 7:35:29 AM PST by Srirangan

Moscow: Russia's fifth-generation fighter plane will be ready in 2007, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force Vladimir Mikhailov said Tuesday.

"Work to build the fifth-generation plane is going according to schedule," he said.

Mikhailov said, however, that the project had encountered some financial problems after civilian aircraft were produced using the money allocated in the budget for the fighter planes.

"Clearly, the development of aviation technology will depend on specific military and economic conditions, determining the progress of reform in the Russian armed forces and the country's aircraft construction industry. However, Russia will continue to be a leading aircraft-building power," he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at india-defence.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: armsbuildup; aviation; belarus; chicoms; coldwar2; coldwarbyproxy; communism; defense; ezekiel38; ezekiel39; finalphase; golitsyn; iran; kazakhstan; kgb; newsovietunion; perestroikadeception; putin; redchina; reddawn; russia; russianmilitary; sovietunion; topolm; ussr; worldwariii
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1 posted on 01/18/2006 7:35:32 AM PST by Srirangan
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To: Srirangan
I'm told that this new jet explodes in pretty vibrant rainbow colors.
2 posted on 01/18/2006 7:38:32 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pukin Dog
ROFL!

I believe it is the PAK FA also known as Sukhoi 47.
3 posted on 01/18/2006 7:39:39 AM PST by Srirangan
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To: Srirangan

4 posted on 01/18/2006 7:39:58 AM PST by bmwcyle (As the left takes to the streets the too many lazy Freeper sleep)
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To: Srirangan

5 posted on 01/18/2006 7:40:39 AM PST by xrp
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To: Pukin Dog

I'm still glad we have the Raptor.


6 posted on 01/18/2006 7:40:54 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: bmwcyle

That's the "flanker" Su 27/30/33. It's the current 4th Gen fighter Russia produces, these planes have performed well against American fighters including F16's and F15E's in mock exercises.


7 posted on 01/18/2006 7:41:53 AM PST by Srirangan
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To: Pukin Dog

My bet it either looks like the F22 or F35.


8 posted on 01/18/2006 7:44:52 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz ("We don't need POLITICIANS...we need STATESMEN.")
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To: Srirangan
This is what I think of when I hear Russian Fighter Fedor "The Russian Experiment" Emelianenko
9 posted on 01/18/2006 7:45:44 AM PST by SShultz460
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To: All

The Cold War is over. Move along. Nothing to see here.

In case you're scoring at home, that's a new stealth submarine, a new mobile ballistic missle, and a new fighter since the end of the cold war, right? Am I missing anything, cause I'd sure hate to short change Peristroika and all the trillions of western capital that have poured in the former Soviet Union since the end of the Cold War? Who are Putin and his comrades trying to kid? The "end of the Cold War" was a carefully orchestrated act by communists to buy time and get western capital in order to rebuild their miltary. The only difference now is that they are not as blatant in their attacks on the US and the west as they have plenty of willing Islamofascists to carry on the Cold War by proxy. Wake up!


10 posted on 01/18/2006 7:45:50 AM PST by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: xrp
That thing is about as combat ready as my sofa.

It doesn't carry enough gas to go around the block.

11 posted on 01/18/2006 7:46:13 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Srirangan

Just won't stack up well against the Raptor. Not because the Su-47 just sucks, I'm sure it's a fine aircraft. It's just that ours are that much better. And more importantly, no country's pilots can dogfight like US pilots.


12 posted on 01/18/2006 7:47:02 AM PST by JamesP81
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To: Rockitz

Yep, they have the jehadi and they have China. Two proxies, each cockier than the other.


13 posted on 01/18/2006 7:48:13 AM PST by Srirangan
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To: JamesP81

Dogfights? WVR combat? Doesn't happen anymore. Who's radar is has the longest range, that matters. It will be interesting to see the specs and compare when they come out eventually.


14 posted on 01/18/2006 7:50:05 AM PST by Srirangan
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To: JamesP81

Dogfights? WVR combat? Doesn't happen anymore. Who's radar is has the longest range, that matters. It will be interesting to see the specs and compare when they come out eventually.


15 posted on 01/18/2006 7:50:25 AM PST by Srirangan
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To: Srirangan

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/pak-fa.htm

PAK FA [Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi]
In early 2002 Sukhoi was chosen as prime contractor for the planned Russian fifth-generation fighter is called the PAK FA [ Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi - Future Air Complex for Tactical Air Forces]. This intermediate class twin-engined fighter will be larger than a MiG-29 and smaller than a Su-27. The new fighter is intended to be about the same size as the US F-35 JSF, with a primary air superiority mission and ground attack and reconnaissance being secondary missions.

The aircraft will feature a long combat radius, supersonic cruise speed, low radar cross section, supermaneuverability, and the ability to make short takeoffs and landings. In accordance with the technical requirements, the PAK FA will have a normal takeoff weight of 20 tons, which is close to the average normal takeoff weight of the two American airplanes, the F-35 JSF (17.2 tons) and the F-22 (24 tons). The new fighter (a medium version) will have a traditional wing form, though the experience gathered as a result of Berkut's test flights will be taken in consideration when designing the fighter. It is supposed that it will be created using the Stealth technology, and equipped with two AL-41F engines by the Saturn scientific and industrial enterprise, a radar system with an active phased array (to all appearances, it will be produced by the Fazatron-NIIR corporation), and high-precision weapons.

The government commission decided on 26 April 2002 to choose the Sukhoi holding company as the head company to develop and produce the fighter of the fifth generation. The prototype of the PAK FA would take-off in 2006 and that in 2010 the aircraft would be ready for series production. The first deliveries, both for Russian armed forces and for export, would be possible in 2011-12.

The new airplane is being proposed to be brought from the concept design to a prototype series in less than 9 years. Historically, fourth and fifth generation fighters have not been created in less than 15 years. The Russian government has promised to allocate 1.5 billion dollars for the PAK FA through 2010. But the Russian Air Force is receiving less than 200 million dollars a year during this period, and will spend it primarily on other needs.

The prices and sources of funding will determine the destiny of the whole program. To date officials agree that the program will cost $1.5 billion. However, $1.5 billion is the sum needed for creating a new generation of avionics for the fighter (considering the fact that pre-production models of the phased array have already been produced, and will soon be tested). Completion of the AL-41F engine (present readiness is 30 percent) will require, in the opinion of the boss of Rosaviakosmos, 600 - 800 million dollars. Saturn said that launching of production of the AL-41F engine would take $150 million. An improved version of the AL-31F will be used on the aircraft originally (though it is not clear how these heavy motors are reconciled with the concept of a 20-ton fighter). The upgrade of these engines will require expenditures of 1.2-1.5 billion dollars. And finally, designers will have to spend several hundred millions of dollars on creating a new airframe.

State financing will cover not more than 20-22 percent of the cost of the development of the PAK FA. It will thus be necessary to draw extrabudgetary sources of funding, lending the development program a principle of openness for international cooperation. In the opinion of experts, export income, if it is taken from the plants, can provide not more than 1 billion dollars. It is maintained that the insufficient amounts can be received from foreign partners.

The plane's development will be conducted with a view of achieving a reasonable compromise between its cost and combat efficiency, and take into account the market demand. exports sales of the new warplane must reach 500 to 600 fighters at a price of $35 to $40 million each to make production of the new aircraft profitable.

According to some reports, India and Russia have agreed to jointly develop this fifth-generation fighter, under a scheduled with entery into service in 2009. This would be the first such joint development venture between the two countries.

There is little chance that Russia will have fifth-generation pursuit planes of its own. Development and construction of a fifth-generation fighter would require about $20 billion dollars, and as of early 2004 it was unlikely that the government will appropriate financing of this scale. "The problem is that economic and military authorities in this country live in parallel spaces and have no common approach to problems," according to Deputy Director of the analytical department of the Political and Military Analysis Institute Alexander Khramchikhin.


16 posted on 01/18/2006 7:51:03 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Srirangan
http://warfare.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29&sid=783fcc47b5afa12fb8099fb5d2e442d7 http://warfare.ru/?catid=255&linkid=2280
17 posted on 01/18/2006 7:51:20 AM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: Srirangan; Pukin Dog

Kinda looks like an amalgam of our F15 and F16.

Gee, I wonder why that might be........


18 posted on 01/18/2006 7:53:17 AM PST by roaddog727 (P=3/8 A. or, P=plenty...............)
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To: Srirangan

The Russians have some amazing engineers, always have. Production problems, financing, heck, COMMUNISM has a way of killing things.


19 posted on 01/18/2006 7:53:21 AM PST by Paradox (What "tax cuts for the rich". They are paying more taxes now than ever!)
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To: Pukin Dog

I noticed the same thing. It also does not appear to have in-flight refueling capacity.


20 posted on 01/18/2006 7:53:38 AM PST by linear (Restore Federalism - Repeal the 17th Amendment)
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To: finnman69

21 posted on 01/18/2006 7:54:44 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: xrp

I think this plane has been shelved.

22 posted on 01/18/2006 7:56:33 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: finnman69

23 posted on 01/18/2006 7:56:35 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Pukin Dog
It doesn't carry enough gas to go around the block.

That's the standard TomCatter response, isn't it?
24 posted on 01/18/2006 8:00:42 AM PST by BIGLOOK (Order of Battle: Sink or capture as Prize MS Media)
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To: Srirangan

LOL the Pak-FA looks a Raptor rip off just like they rip off everything else.


25 posted on 01/18/2006 8:10:22 AM PST by MARKUSPRIME
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To: BIGLOOK
Yes, because it is important. What is the point of being up there if you cant fight for fear of running out of gas?
26 posted on 01/18/2006 8:11:37 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pukin Dog
Just joshin' ya Dog.
You guys ribbed the Hornets on the same point.

VQ-1, Danang
We carried fuel for a mission and a half.
27 posted on 01/18/2006 8:28:52 AM PST by BIGLOOK (Order of Battle: Sink or capture as Prize MS Media)
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To: Pukin Dog

Hey Pukin Dog!

This is a bit OT, but are you still sure the F-35 is going to be cancelled?

I think you may be right that the F-35 will be cut because I read a few weeks ago that the Pentagon was cancelling one of the engines that would be used for the F-35.


28 posted on 01/18/2006 8:36:39 AM PST by GOPGuide
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To: Srirangan

Mikhailov said, however, that the project had encountered some financial problems after civilian aircraft were produced using the money allocated in the budget for the fighter planes.
---

Hmm... so Russia passenger plane production is socialized? Boeing and Airbus need not worry. :)


29 posted on 01/18/2006 8:37:17 AM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/secondaryproblemsofsocialism.htm)
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To: GOPGuide
Yes. I was off my my predicted dates, but not on the ultimate outcome for that aircraft.
30 posted on 01/18/2006 8:38:48 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Rockitz

Let us not forget the super cavitating torpedo - as I understand it, this lovely is capable of "flying" through the water at airborne missile like speeds, drastically reducing countermeasure and reaction/response time.


31 posted on 01/18/2006 8:45:48 AM PST by 70times7 (An open mind is a cesspool of thought)
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To: xrp

There are also some reports from the Indians that:

1) The canard wing has been scrapped in favor of a standard planform to reduce production costs/complexity.

2) The date that the Russians were originally using for production was 2009, not 2007.

3) The Russians were also talking about possible funding constraints in this project. (Priorities went to commercial aircraft development.)

Sounds to me like the good General has got himself a nifty new fighter that got its budget chopped, so he's shopping it around to the Indians to get THEM to "build it under license". (Actually to fund and finish up the project for the Reds.)

Looks like a hot ride, but the size (70,000+ lb), lack of aerial refuel and rest of the configuration shown in your picture would limit the bird to VERY long, well-maintained runways and a high speed/high altitude/maybe 200 mile radius interceptor role.

How it would do as a dogfighter with the standard swept wing and all that weight............


32 posted on 01/18/2006 8:48:39 AM PST by Unrepentant VN Vet (I can't really accept a welcome home until the last MIA does.)
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To: Unrepentant VN Vet

Sounds like it is a pig!


33 posted on 01/18/2006 8:54:45 AM PST by xrp
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To: Pukin Dog

"I was off my my predicted dates, but not on the ultimate outcome for that aircraft."

Or, in English, you mean that our Glorious Congresscriters want to milk the weapons program for all the pork it's worth before the DoD takes the plane off of life support? ;)


34 posted on 01/18/2006 8:55:59 AM PST by GOPGuide
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To: Unrepentant VN Vet
Why youse guys think this kite can't be aerially refueled?

Isn't it possible that it has an retractable internal probe that stores flush with the skin, and then pops out for pit stops? The frog version of the Jaguar seems to have one that is barely visible. Maybe we ain't the only guys the Russkis steal from.

35 posted on 01/18/2006 8:58:12 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (End vote fraud. End the Democrat Party.)
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To: bmwcyle

That's an Su-34, it's a 4th generation Strike Fighter. A 2 seat (side by side configuration) conversion of the Su-27.


36 posted on 01/18/2006 8:59:17 AM PST by rattrap
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To: JudgemAll

More reverse engineering by the Russians.


37 posted on 01/18/2006 9:01:12 AM PST by bmwcyle (As the left takes to the streets the too many lazy Freeper sleep)
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To: Srirangan

Does it haved an "OH CRAP" button for when a Raptor gets a lock on it.


38 posted on 01/18/2006 9:11:25 AM PST by bannedfromdu
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To: xrp

No, I wouldn't call it a pig.

Don't think I'd like to drive one if I was in a serious dispute with an F-22, though. (Not really sure about my odds against a Hornet, either, and the 'Bug is a twenty-year-old design.)

Lacking any better information, for now I'll call it Lima Echo Tango = Large, expensive target.


39 posted on 01/18/2006 9:19:07 AM PST by Unrepentant VN Vet (I can't really accept a welcome home until the last MIA does.)
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To: bmwcyle

man, could they have ripped off the raptor just a little bit more?


40 posted on 01/18/2006 9:39:47 AM PST by Proud_USA_Republican (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good. - Hillary Clinton)
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To: Rockitz

Oh, wake up yourself. One of the few things that functioned well in the Soviet system was arms production. If Russia is to export anything to generate income, it will be oil, arms, and Russian brides. They cannot afford a robust military of their own, but they can still build export armament, it keeps the wolf away from the door.


41 posted on 01/18/2006 9:50:09 AM PST by diogenes ghost
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To: Unrepentant VN Vet
'Bug is a twenty-year-old design

almost 40 year old design! F-18 is based heavily off the YF-17 which had initial conception in the late 1960s.

42 posted on 01/18/2006 9:54:04 AM PST by xrp
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To: finnman69
the project had encountered some financial problems

I thought maybe.

1980's all over again.

43 posted on 01/18/2006 9:56:27 AM PST by Tom Bombadil
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To: diogenes ghost
Oh, wake up yourself. One of the few things that functioned well in the Soviet system was arms production. If Russia is to export anything to generate income, it will be oil, arms, and Russian brides. They cannot afford a robust military of their own, but they can still build export armament, it keeps the wolf away from the door.

You are correct regarding Russia exporting oil and arms. They feel the need to keep their arms industry seeing as they cannot forget the huge losses they suffered in WWII. Without a reliable supplier of arms they would be in serious trouble. You are incorrect regarding the Russian brides being a money maker. There simply are not that many, and additionally they has been much talks in restricting the marriage to foreign men completely.
44 posted on 01/18/2006 9:58:14 AM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Srirangan

bttt


45 posted on 01/18/2006 9:58:22 AM PST by hattend (I wanna go through the Stargate!)
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To: Pukin Dog

"That thing is about as combat ready as my sofa.
It doesn't carry enough gas to go around the block."

What I see is a huge center of gravity shift with fuel tanks so far forward. That canard must go through a a wide range of motion to compensate.


46 posted on 01/18/2006 10:01:32 AM PST by FastCoyote
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To: Proud_USA_Republican

"Ripped off the Raptor."...Did you ever see the similarities between the F22/F23? When designing aircraft for similar missions, different designers will usually come up with similar looking designs, purely due to aerodynamics.


47 posted on 01/18/2006 10:03:22 AM PST by diogenes ghost
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To: diogenes ghost

I don't have time to 'splain it to you, Lucy.


48 posted on 01/18/2006 10:04:52 AM PST by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: Kenny Bunk

The preproduction aircraft doesn't have a probe, and while one could be added, it would only increase the weight and complexity a bit more.

Also, the Russians don't seem to have placed nearly our emphasis on aerial refueling: I can find reference to only one Air Regiment of Il-78 Midas tankers currently in operation.


49 posted on 01/18/2006 10:06:54 AM PST by Unrepentant VN Vet (I can't really accept a welcome home until the last MIA does.)
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To: Rockitz
Interesting. It seems that Russia may be benefiting from the global Islamic distraction since the US is engaged in war with Islamofascists.

It does indeed look like Russia is trying to play the nice guy with Iran who is a source for much of the anti western hatred. Perhaps to buy time for a new buildup?

However, the US government also supported Islamic loons against Russia because the US wanted to see Russia torn apart. Also, our government wanted to see her military resources and readiness exposed.

But you see, militant Islam has another agenda all together. They love using the the US and Russia against each other because they benefit. It's a fact that there are common Islamic militant elements from Chechnya, Bosnia, Iran, to Pakistan. Hell some of the same people who were known to be fighting in Chechnya ended up fighting in Bosnia. Islam has found a new awakening.

With that in mind, both are dealing with the devil and the simple fact is militant Islam has no loyalty to anyone. So, if anybody thinks everything will be okay because today they are helping an Islamic state get stronger they are sadly mistaken.

I would have never sold our US fighter planes to Pakistan. That was a slap in the face to India who is much more loyal to the US. And if I were Russia I wouldn't help Iran in anything nuke.
50 posted on 01/18/2006 10:46:16 AM PST by SQUID
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