JAG temporarily banned Army and Marine Corps snipers from using a highly accurate open-tip bullet.

Washington Times ^ | Jan 20, 2006 | Bill Gertz, Rowan Scarborough

[radar101]

JAG, we are told, mistakenly thought the open-tip round was the same as hollow-point ammunition, which is banned. The original open-tip was known as Sierra MatchKing and broke all records for accuracy in the past 30 years. The difference between the open-tip and the hollow point is that the open tip is a design feature that improves accuracy while the hollow point is designed for increasing damage when it hits a target. About 10 days ago, the Army JAG in Iraq ordered all snipers to stop using the open-tip 175-grain M118LR bullet, claiming, falsely, it was prohibited. Instead of the open-tip, snipers were forced to take M-60 machine gun rounds out of belts and use them instead.

[mosquewatch.com]

Kinder, gentler, ammunition...........

[Sir Gawain]

It's ok to kill them as long as it doesn't hurt them too bad.

[tet68]

Well, as long as the "insurgents" are adhering to the rules
so should we.

/sarcasm

[RobbyS]

Lawyers. Is there any other tribe so ignorant?

[SandRat]

awww... you left out the best part. After Army lawyers were finally alerted to the JAG's action, the order was lifted and the JAG was notified that the open tip was perfectly legal for use by snipers.

[neodad]

I don't care about this, as long as no panties were used in the process.

[John Jorsett]

God save us from lawfare ...

[atomicpossum]

Remarkably ignorant mistake for a military lawyer. Sounds like someone was shooting form the hip.

[Normal4me]

Just wait until they find out about dipping them in pig blood first! Oink..;-)

[DTogo]

HA! HA!

[mosquewatch.com]

lol !

[ChadGore]

Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition

---

MEMORANDUM FOR COMMANDER, UNITED STATES ARMY SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND

SUBJECT: Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition

DATE: 23 September 1985

http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html

[SC Swamp Fox]

However, the reversal was followed by the Army officials' taking retaliation against a sniper who blew the whistle on the bogus order. The sniper lost his job over a security infraction in reporting the JAG.

He must have bypassed his chain-of-command. I am sure he knew the consequences of his actions....good on him.

[savedbygrace]

The blood sucking attorneys are destroying this nation.

[jazusamo]

He didn't have the funds to hire an expert witness to tell him what he wanted to hear so he winged it on his own and screwed the pooch again.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

So is JAG on the side of the terrorists now...?

[Steveone]

I guess they could use air soft

[Mr. Lucky]

What's interesting is not only that the JAG has absolutely no combat infantry experience (being a woman) and that she issued an order without the authority to do so, but that the soldier who blew the whistle on her was disciplined for doing so.

[elkfersupper]

Simple solution.

Simply rename and renumber it.

They'll fall for it. Lawyers are like that, yes they are.

I wonder what kind of "rules" they have for hand-to-hand combat?

[Porterville]

Our snipers should be using napalm from 2000 feet

[Publius6961]

Again, the buck has to stop somewhere. Who was untimately responsible for this ignorant stupid ruling?

I want to know a name, and the date of his or her discharge or firing!

[cryptical]

I don't care about this, as long as no panties were used in the process.

The only panties were on the JAG.

[R. Scott]

Hollow points were banned by a Geneva Convention treaty long ago because of the damage they cause. Sharp edged bayonets are banned for the same reason – they can have a sharp point but the edge must be blunt. Fortunately the bayonet issue is known by few people so that issue doesn’t come up.
I personally think the hollow point is more humane – let the guy bleed out instead of suffering.

[Publius6961]

The sniper lost his job over a security infraction in reporting the JAG.

Now, if only someone would share the name of the JAG with us...

Isn't this a truly qualified case of "whistleblowing" being punished?
There in clearly no classified material involved...

Just criminal incompetence.

[stylin19a]

"She forced snipers to use less accurate ammunition, thereby placing U.S. forces and Iraqi civilians at greater risk," a Pentagon official said of the JAG, who was not identified by name. "And she incorrectly issued an order. JAGs may advise a commander, but they cannot issue orders."

After Army lawyers were finally alerted to the JAG's action, the order was lifted and the JAG was notified that the open tip was perfectly legal for use by snipers. However, the reversal was followed by the Army officials' taking retaliation against a sniper who blew the whistle on the bogus order. The sniper lost his job over a security infraction in reporting the JAG

[Publius6961]

We want a name and to make sure she goes into promoting abortion, where she belongs!

[JohnBovenmyer]

According to the article "she" gave the (illegal) order. They fired the whistle blower. How about restating him and firing her for exceeding her authority. Not to mention for incompetence, you'd expect a JAG to know the rules on who can and who cannot issue orders!

[RTINSC]

The M118LR bullet is so accurate, it can remove your ear at 1500 meters. The M60 hollow point, on the other hand, is not as accurate but will remove your head along with your ear.

[pickrell]

"..Again, the buck has to stop somewhere. Who was untimately responsible for this ignorant stupid ruling? I want to know a name, and the date of his or her discharge or firing!.."

The scuttlebutt is that it was Al Gore. You see, he invented the open point round, as well as the sniper scope, and is upset about not receiving royalties because of some silly technicality about verifying the patent.

[xcamel]

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

(IIRC)

[Steveone]

"silly technicality about verifying the patent" ROFLMAO Yeah it was Bush he put someone Else's name on them!

[IllumiNaughtyByNature]

The M118LR bullet is so accurate, it can remove your ear at 1500 meters. The M60 hollow point, on the other hand, is not as accurate but will remove your head along with your ear.

Unless it's a hostage situation, what is so wrong with that?

[dhouston]

My arithmetic is bad ,almost a mile?
Wow!

[YOUGOTIT]

The JAG should be brought up on charges of conduct in support of the enemy in time of war. But she never will be because she is a female. Take her commission and throw her out she may be responsible for the death of American military personnel and she is evidently a dumb as#.

[boomop1]

JAG are a bunch of lefties who get payed for harassing the troops.

[RTINSC]

Nothing wrong with the M60 IMO.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Shoot, shovel, and shut up! If they can't find a body, they can't prove a thing!

[RTINSC]

It is my understanding the longest sniper kill with a .50 cal in Iraq was at 2200 meters -1.2 miles!

[ericthecurdog]

Lawyers. Is there any other tribe so ignorant?

Yes. The tribe of those who make idiotic generalizations.

[WestVirginiaRebel]

Don't worry. Harm and Mac will get to the bottom of this!

[sarasmom]

"Isn't this a truly qualified case of "whistleblowing" being punished?
There in clearly no classified material involved..."

I can't tell whether or not it was, based on the information presented.
I do know there are numerous avenues for "whistleblowing" in every chain of command in the DOD, the IG office being one of the most obvious.
That said, I would very much like to have more information on this incident, and those involved.
Issuing an "illegal order" is not a small thing for an officer, and it just doesn't pass a smell test that it was left to an individual "sniper" to rectify this situation by going outside the chain of command.
Some names are needed before this disappears...

[Sangey]

This JAG was most wrong, but pls do not paint all JAG with the same paint. Many Jag are good guys. Just because they are not field troops does not mean that they are the enemy. Remember most of the Army nowadays may not be combat arms, but they are all on the front lines when you have a low intensity situation. No solid front lines no FEBA means anybody can get hit. Even JAGs know this. I agree that the one who shot her mouth off here should have somebody tighten up her shot group (ha) but pls do not think that she's all JAGs. I knew one at Ft Bragg that was combat infantry in Vietnam before law school. (He was not a leg - either). He was a good guy.
Buddha Bless the USA

[Taxman]

Well, sh!t!

Why don't we let the State Department approve all targeting, like they did in VietNam.

Then, we surely will win!

Sarcasm off.

[Taxman]

And, did you read "The rest of the story?"

The sniper who tipped his CO to the JAG idiotic order got disciplined!

What is that all about?

Good thing I am not serving in the PC military of today. I'd be in the FReaking brig!

[joesnuffy]

Hague Convention not Geneva and I dont think we signed it and I know no Muslims did...

[Lancey Howard]

???
What on earth is this all about? You can shoot a bazooka at the enemy but not hollow point rounds?

[joesnuffy]

175 SMKs are the most accurate 7.62 X 51mm NATO is probably the most accurate round in that particular caliber we use.

Less collateral damage possibility makes it the best round..all around..

imo

[an amused spectator]

Someone deliberately misrepresented the facts to JAG in order to prevent use of the bullets.

This is otherwise known as "aid and comfort to the enemy" aka "treason".