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JAG temporarily banned Army and Marine Corps snipers from using a highly accurate open-tip bullet.
Washington Times ^ | Jan 20, 2006 | Bill Gertz, Rowan Scarborough

Posted on 01/22/2006 2:35:38 PM PST by radar101

click here to read article


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To: Gone_Postal

Politicians, most of whom are lawyers, and lawyers who couldn't make it in private practice.


101 posted on 01/22/2006 8:54:25 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: radar101

Lawyers like that empty suit Paul Hackett running for the Sneate in Ohio are hurting the military A LOT.


102 posted on 01/22/2006 8:59:46 PM PST by faithincowboys
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To: RGRX
Thanks for first hand feedback. I'm not familiar with use of ballistic cams. My experience is based on range cards for a given type of ammo to calibrate the behavior for muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient for the bullet in use. Add the "mildot master", a thermometer and an eyeball estimate of wind speed and direction. Primitive. Absent a good range card for a given type of ammo, its a crap shoot at longer ranges. Getting 4 MOA at 500 meters is just barely usable for human size targets.

A big thank you to you and your fellow snipers. I wish the press would have the good sense not to publish stories with names and pictures. It just paints a target on you guys in your "off" hours.

103 posted on 01/22/2006 9:32:04 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: radar101
After Army lawyers were finally alerted to the JAG's action, the order was lifted and the JAG was notified that the open tip was perfectly legal for use by snipers. However, the reversal was followed by the Army officials' taking retaliation against a sniper who blew the whistle on the bogus order. The sniper lost his job over a security infraction in reporting the JAG.

Sounds like the military I knew and loved...

104 posted on 01/22/2006 11:43:14 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: RTINSC
Nothing wrong with the M60 IMO.

Nobody is saying that there's anything wrong w/M60 ammo. It's perfect for use in the M60 machinegun, but as a sniper round, well it may leave a little to be desired in the accuracy at distance department.

Taking out discrete targets at long range isn't the same as suppressive fire, nor is engaging multiple targets rapidly the same either. Each tactic requires different ammo to get the desired result...

the infowarrior

105 posted on 01/23/2006 12:46:05 AM PST by infowarrior (TANSTAAFL)
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To: albertp; Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Americanwolf; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
106 posted on 01/23/2006 12:54:19 AM PST by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: ApplegateRanch

The way it was taught to us only the bayonet was covered. Knives were OK. I admit it – I was a technical war criminal. My bayonet was sharp enough to shave with.


107 posted on 01/23/2006 3:13:41 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: infowarrior

"Nothing wrong with the M60 IMO."

Thanks for the comment. My comment was made in jest to a previous post. The M80 round has been used in training in the M24.


108 posted on 01/23/2006 4:16:57 AM PST by RTINSC (I Get Plenty of Healthy Exercise Lighting My Cigarettes..)
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To: boomop1

"JAG are a bunch of lefties who get payed for harassing the troops."

I was a JAG (and a lifelong Republican). The only "troops" I harassed were drug dealers, barracks thieves and child molestors. The good soldiers never seemed to mind that these guys were shuffling off to Leavenworth - as opposed to prowling around the family housing areas. I considered it addition by subtraction.


109 posted on 01/23/2006 9:47:56 AM PST by Airborne1986 (Well, you can do what you want to us. But we're not going to sit here while you badmouth the U.S.A.)
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To: Airborne1986

OK I over reacted. They are still lawyers lawyers liars.


110 posted on 01/23/2006 12:08:06 PM PST by boomop1
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To: Publius6961
Now, if only someone would share the name of the JAG with us...

Isn't this a truly qualified case of "whistleblowing" being punished?

There in clearly no classified material involved...

Just criminal incompetence.

Information isn't classified for no reason, if there was no reason for the information the sniper released to be classified that would be a valid defense. My guess is that the sniper released some classified information in the process that was not directly related to the order. The reason we don't know exactly what information was released is that it was classified.

If the sniper didn't do anything wrong and it really is retailiation, I don't think it will withstand the scrutiny it will get in this case. However, it's more likely the sniper reacted to this stupid order by doing something equally stupid and released justifiably classified information in the process.

111 posted on 01/23/2006 1:55:13 PM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: Safrguns

"We need safer guns and safer bullets"
- Joycelyn Elders -

Leftie PING!


112 posted on 01/23/2006 2:20:35 PM PST by Drago
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To: All

This is ridiculous and really unsafe for our military. You would think that JAG would know the difference between the two types of bullets. The only way I can see it being confusing is that some manufacturers still refer to open-tips as hollow points. These people should do their research and get a better idea of the different types of bullets and what they look like.

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/bullet-sizes-calibers-and-types/


113 posted on 09/11/2018 11:25:12 AM PDT by guns4activists
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To: stylin19a

She incorrectly issued the order?

Hmmm.


114 posted on 09/11/2018 11:27:55 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: radar101

The American tyranny of the lawyers extends it’s ugly head into the military.


115 posted on 09/11/2018 11:30:22 AM PDT by bert ((KE. N.P. N.C. +12) Muller..... conspiracy to over throw the government)
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To: RinaseaofDs; guns4activists; bert

I remember this thread.
what brings us back here ?


116 posted on 09/11/2018 11:32:42 AM PDT by stylin19a ((Best.Election.Of.All-Times.Ever.In.The.History.Of.Ever))
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