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Aftermath Of Disaster - One Armed Citizen’s Story (New Orleans/Katrina)
AMERICAN RIFLEMAN Magazine (12/05 issue) ^ | 11/12/05 | Martin K.A. Morgan

Posted on 01/22/2006 9:48:26 PM PST by Skibane

I live on Julia Street in the downtown Warehouse District of New Orleans. My apartment is just seven blocks from the French Quarter, eight blocks from the Louisiana Superdome and four blocks from the Mississippi River. I also work in the same neighborhood at the National D-Day Museum. Living and working in the Warehouse District during the past five years has made me develop a sense of comfort and safety that I now realize I had been taking for granted. During the last three days of August 2005, that sense of comfort and safety was shattered by Hurricane Katrina.

I have survived a direct hit from a hurricane before (July 1997’s Hurricane Danny), so I had a realistic expectation of the level of destruction that Katrina could deliver. Although I did not underestimate the storm, I thoroughly underestimated the depths to which people could descend in its aftermath. With my girlfriend, Debbi, I remained in the city until the afternoon of Wednesday, August 31. When the time came for the two of us to escape, we were able to do so only because we had a 2001 Chevy Blazer, a full tank of gas and four firearms.

As Katrina approached New Orleans, I chose not to evacuate. I would not have made this decision had it not been for the fact that I was prepared with a supply of non-perishable food and clean water to last two weeks. In addition to the food, Debbi and I also had a radio, several flashlights and plenty of batteries. In the event of looting, I was prepared with arms and ammunition.

I have collected firearms for more than 20 years now, mainly with a focus on military rifles. My modest collection includes two M1 Garands, two M1 carbines, two Mausers, a Krag, a Trapdoor Springfield and a Ruger 10/22. This little collection was supplemented in recent years with a pre-1980 Norinco AKM, a Colt AR-15 SP1, and eight pistols – some collectible and some modern. As the storm approached, I locked up everything that I knew I would not need and kept out the AKM and AR-15 just in case. For pistols, I kept out my Beretta 950BS .25-cal. and my 9 mm Browning Hi-Power. I figured that, should things get out of control, these would be more than adequate to protect my life and property.

Since I live in a fourth-floor apartment more than 50 feet above street level, I was not worried about floodwaters. What did worry me though was my Blazer, which sat on a street-level parking lot. As insurance against the car being flooded, I took it to a hotel in the Central Business District (CBD) of the city. A friend working there let me park the Blazer in the hotel’s parking deck for the duration of the storm. So, with the outermost feeder bands of Hurricane Katrina sweeping in over the city, I drove my SUV the 10 blocks to the hotel and handed it over to a valet. It was midnight, and the storm was getting close.

The actual storm was not terribly exciting for the two of us: heavy rains and winds began sweeping over the city before midnight on Sunday, August 28. We went to bed at about 2 o’clock on Monday morning with the power still on. At approximately 4 a.m., we woke to very strong winds that physically shook the building. At 5:30 a.m., the power went out and we switched to flashlights and turned on the radio. When the winds began to die down shortly before 6 a.m., Debbi and I went back to sleep, assuming that we had seen the worst of Katrina.

Monday - Day 1

When the wind and rain abated at about 11 a.m. on Monday, I was relieved that my apartment had sustained no water or wind damage. In the afternoon, we took a walking tour of the neighborhood. The first stop was the museum, which had sustained very little damage. The worst-hit part of the museum campus was a warehouse storing overstock for the museum store, where two wooden walls had collapsed, exposing racks of T-shirts and shelves of toys. Looters soon began making off with the contents of this storage area. With the museum in great shape, we continued to explore the damage to the Warehouse District and Lafayette Square area of downtown where we observed shattered windows and uprooted trees everywhere. We also observed hundreds of fellow New Orleanians touring the destruction. The feeling around the downtown area on Day 1 was that of elation – people seemed for the most part glad that the storm was over and that damage appeared not to be particularly extensive.

There was a great deal of activity on the street after dark, with helicopters flying around endlessly and police vehicles patrolling the streets of our neighborhood. At about 11 p.m., we heard the distinct and measured report of a handgun being fired by someone who knew what he was doing. I assumed that this was a New Orleans peace officer. Despite this though, we were not particularly concerned about safety – yet.

Tuesday - Day 2

We awoke on Day 2 to a ringing telephone. Surprisingly, cellular phones were useless and yet the landline remained on for the duration of the ordeal, which has led me to vow that I will never be without one for the rest of my life. The people who were calling began telling us of the scenes of destruction that were being played on every television station. This is when we first learned of the breaches in the levee system and the looting. When emergency radio broadcasts confirmed this information, Debbi and I began to worry for the first time. Strangely, we were not hearing any details on the radio about the situation in downtown New Orleans. All we knew was that our friends and family outside the city were telling us that the levees had been breached and the looting had begun.

Based on those sobering reports, we decided to attempt to get out of New Orleans. We knew that the Blazer was going to be just fine since it was on a parking deck, and we knew we had plenty of gas to get out, thanks to the fact that I had taken the precaution of filling up the tank three days earlier. So in the afternoon we set out on foot for the hotel, hoping retrieve the car and drive ourselves out. On this first attempt to get to the Blazer, I carried my video camera and my Browning Hi-Power, which I had specifically chosen for its magazine capacity. I carried it with one round in the chamber and 13 in the magazine.

Since this was the first time we had gone into the core of the CBD, we were surprised to see broken glass filling the streets and trees down everywhere. At Poydras Street we saw our first National Guardsmen, but they were from an engineer battalion. They had trucks and HMMWVs, but no guns; in fact, at no point did I observe a single armed National Guardsman. As we entered the CBD, we saw our first floodwaters. The streets downtown were a soup of dead pigeons, dead rats, sewage and oil all mixed up in about three feet of water. We did not want to enter it, but we had to if we wanted to get to the Blazer, so in we went. As we waded farther and farther into the downtown core, we passed a food mart at the corner of Baronne and Gravier and we noticed people inside looting sodas, chips, beer and cigarettes. They were exiting through a broken window as we passed them.

When we reached the hotel, we found that the parking garage doors were shut and the entire area around it was under thigh-deep water. Realizing that we could not get the Blazer out, we headed home. It was during the return walk that I personally observed several hundred people engaged in the act of looting. They were all around us that afternoon, pushing grocery carts full of athletic shoes, clothing and electronics toward the Morial Convention Center. One guy had a brand new football still in the box that he was so proud of, he held it up for my camera.

Throughout all of this, I personally observed New Orleans police officers standing by, doing nothing. To me it seemed that they were simply outnumbered and overwhelmed. The entire experience of being downtown and in the middle of all of this was very distressing. Up to that point, we had only heard rumors about the general lawlessness that was taking place in the city. Now that we had seen it close-up, we realized what a chaotic situation we were in. Also, because we had personally observed police officers doing little to interfere with the looting, we no longer had any confidence that we were being adequately protected.

We returned to the apartment and spent Tuesday night listening to the helicopters and police vehicles roving through the neighborhood. The night was miserable for many reasons. First of all, the heat was absolutely brutal – especially indoors. Secondly, after what we had seen in downtown earlier in the day, we were both terrified at the thought of looters breaking into the building. It seemed very obvious that if they got in, we were in big trouble.

I began to analyze my hallway in terms of the possible lanes of approach that the looters would use, and I even considered wiring tin cans together and stringing them up the hall to alert me if someone was approaching. I caught only a few minutes of sleep at a time throughout the night as I strained to listen for the sounds of intruders. The AKM and the AR-15 SP1 were both locked and loaded, leaning against the wall a foot away from me. The Browning Hi-Power was locked and loaded on the bedside table. Although there were a couple of scares during the night, the bad guys did not get in.

Wednesday - Day 3

I had to get us out of New Orleans and I knew it, so I decided to try again on Wednesday, and we prepared ourselves for another trip into the CBD to try to get to the Blazer. Just as the day before, I took the Browning Hi-Power with me for protection. As we moved down Magazine Street, we kept noticing cars streaming toward the bridge at high speed. We saw relief workers getting out of town. Downtown New Orleans was even scarier than it had been on Tuesday. The situation was absolute and total chaos. As we crossed Common Street by the hotel, I personally observed two New Orleans police officers carrying looted boxes of running shoes.

At the hotel, we were surprised to find the gate to the parking deck open. I was preparing myself for the bad news that someone had stolen the car, and I was playing out every possible worst-case scenario in my mind. If the Blazer was gone, we were going to walk out of New Orleans. But then on the 11th floor of the deck, we found it with the window down, the valet key in the ignition and every drop of gas still in it. Although we were lucky in that we now had a means of escape, there was still one major obstacle: the flooded street. I drove off into it and, although I never would have believed it, the Blazer operated just fine in water that was almost four-foot deep. Thank you, GM.

As we pulled up in front of my apartment building, I told Debbi that we could only take a few minutes to get whatever we were going to need from the apartment. I knew that the longer the Blazer sat on Julia Street (a mere four blocks from the Morial Convention Center), the greater the chance of it either being stolen or having its gasoline siphoned out. The two of us proceeded upstairs and began to pack frantically. I strapped the AKM across my back when I carried the first load downstairs. When I got there, I looked through the pedestrian gate that surrounds the building and I saw a group of five men circling the Blazer, looking through its windows. One of them was clearly trying to read the fuel gauge.

Knowing what they were about to do, I dashed through the gate and yelled at them to get away from the vehicle. As I charged through the gate, I unslung the AKM. At first, the malice in their eyes and their threatening moves could not have been more clear. It wasn’t just about the Blazer anymore. Then, they each saw the rifle and, without hesitating, turned and ran. If I had been unarmed, I would have never done this, and they would have taken the only means of escape that was available to us. I watched the impulse that shot through each of them the second they saw my AKM – it was the unmistakable and immediate impulse of complete terror. They responded dramatically to the sight of that AKM. It was better than having a team of Rottweilers.

I am thankful I had it because, minutes later, Debbi and I drove across the Greater New Orleans Bridge and on to Houston – and safety.

*****

(Martin K.A. Morgan is the research historian of the National D-Day Museum, and the author of “Down To Earth: The 507th Parachute Infantry Regiment in Normandy June 6 - July 11, 1944”.)


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; guncontrol; katrina; laarmedcitizen; neworleans; rkba
This article appeared in the December 2005 issue of "American Rifleman" magazine, but apparently was never published on the net .
1 posted on 01/22/2006 9:48:28 PM PST by Skibane
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To: Skibane
It was posted on ar15.com's forums (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=429878) recently, too!

I'm increasing my collection this week. Gonna add a SigPro 2009, it looks like.

2 posted on 01/22/2006 9:55:23 PM PST by xrp
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To: Skibane

Praise God, and thanks to the Founding Fathers for the Second Amendment.


3 posted on 01/22/2006 9:57:22 PM PST by Ostlandr ("In a mature society, the terms 'civil servant' and 'civil master' are semantically equal." -RAH)
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To: Skibane; Joe Brower

BTTT


4 posted on 01/22/2006 9:58:08 PM PST by Fiddlstix (Tagline Repair Service. Let us fix those broken Taglines. Inquire within(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Skibane

I believe him but,

4 feet of water ?

The Blazer (K or S ?) musta had a lift kit and 35"`s on `em. Either the tailpipe would be under water or the engine would have sucked in water.


5 posted on 01/22/2006 9:59:38 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Skibane

The gun is the ONLY reason they made it, and maybe the reason they are still alive.


6 posted on 01/22/2006 10:12:02 PM PST by Waco
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To: Skibane; abb; alnick; AzaleaCity5691; BerniesFriend; bigeasy_70118; Bitsy; Bogey780; ...

  ** Louisiana PING **


[ If you would like on/off the LA Ping List please FReepmail
me and your name will be added to or taken off of the list. ]


7 posted on 01/22/2006 10:56:35 PM PST by caryatid (Jolie Blonde, 'gardez donc, quoi t'as fait ...)
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To: Waco
And it wasn't a "sensible", politically-correct .22 caliber single-shot, either –

"When you want to end a confrontation before it even gets started, nothing says 'intimidation' like a GENUINE KALISHNIKOV™!"

8 posted on 01/22/2006 11:01:53 PM PST by Skibane
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To: Para-Ord.45

I have been in both an automobile and on a motorcycle in fairly deep water. The exhausts made a burbling noise like on old inboard motored boat, but they started and ran fine. Keeping the intake and the ignition dry is the important part. (Helps if the distributor ia at the back of the block, like a small block chevy V8 engine which was pretty much the norm for the older blazers.)


9 posted on 01/22/2006 11:23:51 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Skibane

I don't know if a .25 would be on my top 4 list.


10 posted on 01/22/2006 11:34:33 PM PST by PAR35
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To: Para-Ord.45
I just drove my Astro through water that I'm sure was higher than the tailpipe. When I have driven and have seen others driven through high water it usually causes a wake that lowers the water lever around you.

Also some of the military vehicles that I have seen with a snorkel for air intake doesn't seem to have a special exhaust pipe, so perhaps it isn't a problem having the exhaust underwater. I wouldn't want to try and start it with the tailpipe underwater, that might be a problem.
11 posted on 01/23/2006 12:23:33 AM PST by notpoliticallycorewrecked ( God Bless our Military)
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To: notpoliticallycorewrecked

Sorry for the bad grammar, I reversed a correction and really messed the whole sentence up. What can I say, it's midnight.


12 posted on 01/23/2006 12:26:04 AM PST by notpoliticallycorewrecked ( God Bless our Military)
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To: Skibane

Good story. I know the area he lived in and discusses well. I thought that the Gretna police were turing everyone back when they crossed the bridge?


13 posted on 01/23/2006 3:31:40 AM PST by Recon Dad (Force Recon Dad)
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To: Skibane

A dummy gun would have worked as well. Looters tend to want easy pickins.


14 posted on 01/23/2006 3:36:29 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: The Red Zone
A dummy gun would have worked as well.

Put the crackpipe down and step away from the computer.

15 posted on 01/23/2006 3:46:37 AM PST by JoeSixPack1
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To: Skibane
That's one of the great beauties of owning any AK or AK variant (I own a VEPR II)--the homies from the "hood" and all the other bad guys know exactly what they look like, understand what can be done with their fire power, admire the weapons, and are afraid of them. Hence, an AK or AK variant gives its law abiding user a tremendous leg up in a really bad situation like this, an advantage that usually makes actual shooting unnecessary.
16 posted on 01/23/2006 6:08:43 AM PST by libstripper
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To: The Red Zone

A real, loaded gun gives its owner courage to do things like take on a gang of potentially murderous looters, as here, that a "dummy gun" just doesn't provide. The idea's to promise annihilation knowing you can do it, not to bluff. The confidence that comes from that sure knowledge gives the promiser a menacing demeanor that can't come from any other source.


17 posted on 01/23/2006 6:14:05 AM PST by libstripper
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To: The Red Zone
A dummy gun would have worked as well. Looters tend to want easy pickins.

First of all, having been in a riot or three and having lived in South Florida during Hurricane Andrew, looters in those situations are on property after consumer goods and rarely are they aware of an armed property owner until a shot is fired. Then they may or may not scatter. I've seen looters throw a national guard chopper the "bird" and continue to loot. I say this because I was IN the chopper in question! The 05 in charge of the bird was going crazy because on the recon flight, nobody had a loaded weapon! He actually had the pilot try and hit some of those folks with the chopper skids.

The scene in N.O. wasn't a normal "disturbance." It was the apocalypse on the order of MAD MAX and predators were hunting prey. Under normal circumstances, if you look like prey you will be eaten and if you DON'T... you WON'T. In this situation, in order to prove the fact, potential prey had to prove the potential to BITE. Somehow I don't think I'd want to be rolling the dice with a toy gun.

18 posted on 01/23/2006 7:30:26 AM PST by ExSoldier
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To: Skibane; Barney Gumble

Great post.

My brother lives in Houston and I bought him a handgun as very redneck gift for his wedding (Nice Sig). His wife was none-to-pleased until Rita was roaring its way to Houston and he said to her, "Aren't you glad we got the gun." She was.

Also, a friend of mine worked for the USCG in the rescue and he told me that when the news tried to retract the mayhem that went on down there, they were lying through their teeth. His team's helicopters and boats were shot at by looters and thugs.


19 posted on 01/23/2006 10:28:37 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: ExSoldier
"The scene in N.O. wasn't a normal "disturbance." It was the apocalypse on the order of MAD MAX and predators were hunting prey. Under normal circumstances, if you look like prey you will be eaten and if you DON'T... you WON'T. In this situation, in order to prove the fact, potential prey had to prove the potential to BITE. Somehow I don't think I'd want to be rolling the dice with a toy gun."

very true.

20 posted on 01/23/2006 10:31:01 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: jjm2111; Skibane; ExSoldier

It amazed me how quickly New Orleans descended into anarchy. It seems that there is only a thin force that keeps parts of America from becoming like a lawless third-world country.

Katrina can be used as an example as why guns are still necessary in today's age...and they aren't just needed for hunting.


21 posted on 01/23/2006 11:31:36 AM PST by Barney Gumble (A liberal is someone too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel - Robert Frost)
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To: Barney Gumble
It amazed me how quickly New Orleans descended into anarchy.

I think it just proves the truth of the old saying that the country stands but two meals away from a revolution. There is no such thing anymore as self reliance on a large scale. You got lucky folks like our own beloved freeper appalachian_dweller who can stride off into the woods and live off the land for literally months. But his kind are few and far between, except for those who prepare in advance. Even the prepared are vulnerable to the government as was the case in the N.O. gun confiscations. Funny, I spoke to a cop from St Tammany parish which grabbed guns too and on the one hand he defended the practice saying they needed to get "control" and claiming they were only taking guns from cars and boats. As if that made it alright. OTOH, he's squawking about how it's going to be a fight if they come for HIS guns! Cripes!

22 posted on 01/23/2006 11:52:33 AM PST by ExSoldier
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To: libstripper
Thats actually one of the primary reasons I bought a WASR-10 variant. It aint pretty and its deffinately no AR-15 but you cant mistake the silhouette for anything else. Slap a bayonette on the end of it (if you have the lug for it) and you have yourself one very effective looter deterrant.

23 posted on 01/23/2006 12:39:36 PM PST by BorisTheBulletDodger (Hope for the best, PACK for the worst!)
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To: jjm2111

Some of the evacuees haven't had any problem locating guns and semi-automatic weapons here in their adopted home.

A NOLAn FReeper wrote the other day that the murder rate is way down in NOLA, only 4 murders since the hurricane. Meanwhile, we had had 23 murders in Houston that were Katrina evacuee-related (perps and/or victims) since the hurricane, as of 4-5 days ago. Here's at least #24 (may be more).


~~~~~~~~~
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3836725

Homeowner fights back against intruders
Intruders threw infant down the stairs
By Christine Dobbyn
(1/23/06 - KTRK/HOUSTON) - A northwest Houston father fought back and killed an armed intruder overnight.

Police say three men forced their way into the unit at the apartment complex on West Tidwell near West Sun Forest. The armed men demanded money.

The victim first tried to stop the men with a steak knife. The suspects then grabbed the homeowner's 12-month-old daughter and threw her down the stairs. Fortunately, the toddler is OK.

One suspect pulled a gun, but the victim was able to get it away from him and shot him. Then the suspect pulled a second gun. The homeowner got it away from him and shot him again, this time killing him. Police say the other two men fled the scene.

"The two suspects are known to the complainant," said Officer Philip Yochum with the Houston Police Department. "The dead man is not known to the complainant. They left the scene before police arrived."

Investigators say the victim knew the two suspects who got away and that both the victim and suspects are Katrina evacuees. Police aren't sure if the dead suspect is an evacuee as well.
~~~~~~~~

On the news tonight, they said the robbers were after the other evacuee's FEMA money. They all went to middle school together in NOLA, except for the dead one, whom the robbery victim didn't know. That baby, Christany, was thrown from the 2nd story down to the ground below. Amazing that she's OK.


24 posted on 01/23/2006 2:21:57 PM PST by Rte66
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To: Skibane
One Armed Citizen's Story

There's no limit to what the handicapped can do these days.

25 posted on 01/23/2006 2:25:09 PM PST by AndrewB
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To: Rte66

26 posted on 01/23/2006 2:30:32 PM PST by CJ Wolf
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To: AndrewB

As long as they have guns.


27 posted on 01/23/2006 2:31:19 PM PST by CJ Wolf
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To: BorisTheBulletDodger
Thats actually one of the primary reasons I bought a WASR-10 variant. It aint pretty and its deffinately no AR-15 but you cant mistake the silhouette for anything else. Slap a bayonette on the end of it (if you have the lug for it) and you have yourself one very effective looter deterrant.

Compact, lightweight, easy-to-carry on a sling, and inexpensive enough that you don't have to baby it. Excellent choice, IMO.

28 posted on 01/23/2006 6:46:52 PM PST by Skibane
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To: Skibane
I have collected firearms for more than 20 years now, mainly with a focus on military rifles. My modest collection includes two M1 Garands, two M1 carbines, two Mausers, a Krag, a Trapdoor Springfield and a Ruger 10/22. This little collection was supplemented in recent years with a pre-1980 Norinco AKM, a Colt AR-15 SP1, and eight pistols – some collectible and some modern. As the storm approached, I locked up everything that I knew I would not need and kept out the AKM and AR-15 just in case. For pistols, I kept out my Beretta 950BS .25-cal. and my 9 mm Browning Hi-Power. I figured that, should things get out of control, these would be more than adequate to protect my life and property.

Uh, yeah, that'd probably do it. LOL

29 posted on 01/23/2006 6:49:23 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Skibane
Also, because we had personally observed police officers doing little to interfere with the looting, we no longer had any confidence that we were being adequately protected.

From what I've heard it wouldn't be stretching things to suggest that many living there in certain parts before HK also had no confidence that they were being adequately protected.

30 posted on 01/23/2006 6:55:00 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Skibane
I watched the impulse that shot through each of them the second they saw my AKM – it was the unmistakable and immediate impulse of complete terror. They responded dramatically to the sight of that AKM. It was better than having a team of Rottweilers.

I am thankful I had it because, minutes later, Debbi and I drove across the Greater New Orleans Bridge and on to Houston – and safety.

Ahhh yes!!! You've gotta love it!

31 posted on 01/23/2006 6:58:57 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Skibane; EdReform; jonestown; Ladysmith; Petruchio; Shooter 2.5; PeterPrinciple; Max Combined; ...
(((Armed Citizen ping)))



You are being pinged because of your interest in every-day citizens using firearms to save life and limb. Freep-mail if you want on/off.

Visit the Armed Citizen Archives!

32 posted on 01/24/2006 7:28:11 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being." SCOTUS, Zorach v. Clauson)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

The mere threat of a gun can and does deter crime.


33 posted on 01/24/2006 7:45:27 AM PST by Supernatural (All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie! bob dylan)
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To: libstripper; The Red Zone
A real, loaded gun gives its owner courage to do things like take on a gang of potentially murderous looters, as here, that a "dummy gun" just doesn't provide.

This is so accurate.

Once the wife and I were getting groceries fairly late at night. Long story short a goblin that simply didn't belong came walking toward the car. Big goblin too.

As he walked toward us he viewed a woman calmly transferring groceries into the trunk while her husband was leaning against the car with a smile on his face staring straight at him.

The goblin turned on his heel and walked away furtively glancing over his shoulder at me. I never stopped smiling and neither did my wife. She carries too and would have been fine if she was alone.

The confidence was training and a Glock not a PC warm feeling and a toy gun.

34 posted on 01/24/2006 8:06:55 AM PST by Eaker (My Wife Rocks! - I will never take Dix or El Roy off of my ping list.)
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To: King Prout

This relates to our conversation recently on the Undead Thread. Real life example. Predation is dangerous when your victim is armed. This is a self correcting problem.


35 posted on 01/24/2006 8:12:31 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Skibane

Nice work. Kudos. I finally read that in the last week or two, and thought, "boy, someone should scan that and post it on FR."


36 posted on 01/24/2006 8:30:43 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: The Red Zone
A dummy gun would have worked as well.

A dummy gun is for....?

37 posted on 01/24/2006 9:47:36 AM PST by Cobra64
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To: Cobra64
A dummy gun is for....?

Too funny! LOL!
38 posted on 01/24/2006 1:15:30 PM PST by NonLinear (He's dead, Jim)
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To: notpoliticallycorewrecked

Well, you could conceivably get through water 48" high if you keep moving. The wake that causes a shallow in the rear of the vehicle could be enough to allow the proper ventalation. As for the engine sucking in water, that's only if the intake is below the surface and on a blazer it shouldn't be. Stop the vehicle in that high water and you have a problem. I have driven through tow to three foot water in a vehicle before, but make darn sure I didn't stop. I have also driven through 8 inches of water and had the misfortune of getting caught in a swell that went up to about four feet, swept me into a ravine. I was wet, and really pissed, LOL.

Most military vehicles have exhausts that are more than four feet high. Either on the hood, the roof, or high on the rear of the vehicle. This is specifically for fjording water. One thing you definitely don't want to do with a modern vehicle is go crashing through the water at a speed higher than about 5 mph. You will tear your fan apart and be stuck for sure.


39 posted on 01/24/2006 3:23:37 PM PST by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: The Red Zone

Is that some kind of sick joke? You would want to risk carrying a "dummy gun" around the types that looted, killed, raped, and ransacked New Orleans? Gotta be kidding me.


40 posted on 01/24/2006 3:25:14 PM PST by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Eaker
The confidence was training and a Glock not a PC warm feeling and a toy gun.

Yeah we all know that happiness is a warm gun not a warm feeling.
41 posted on 01/24/2006 3:27:32 PM PST by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Para-Ord.45
" believe him but, 4 feet of water ? " An ordinary Blazer or PU will go through four feet of water as long as the vehicle does not stop, or is NOT going too fast. 10 to 15 MPH will get the vehicle through, the exhaust gas pressure, if contant will keep the water out and the water flows down around the engine ( not through the radiator) withput impeading the fan. If the vehicle pauses or stops and water gets aropund the fan, that usually throws ware all over the engine and it gets into the air feed for the carb or FI. One can also dismount the fan belt for a very short run if this is a problem, the engine runs off the battery.

I think our man probably knew this fact about the water, being a military historian. It would be great to ask him though!

I found out this trick by 4 wheelin in the Canadian outback when I ran a survey crew with a mining exploration company.

42 posted on 01/26/2006 6:28:24 PM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal Flatulence Goes the Hope of the West)
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To: Skibane

Good post, thanks.


43 posted on 01/26/2006 6:40:08 PM PST by blam
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To: Eaker

Ahhh yes......personal security in Combat Tupperware !....:o)


44 posted on 01/26/2006 6:42:14 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: BorisTheBulletDodger
Here is my looter deterrant,( Benelli Nova Tactical Pump), have two bandoleers one full of rifled slugs and the other 00 buck.

I can put 8 shells in the extended magazine which reaches the end of the barrel( grin). I can unload a full mag accurately in less than ten seconds. Reloading takes about 25 seconds.

Only problem is the barrel do get HOT!

Image hosting by Photobucket

45 posted on 01/26/2006 6:48:13 PM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal Flatulence Goes the Hope of the West)
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To: Candor7


Probably some math and physics involved but,

wouldn`t 4 feet of water float a vehicle?


46 posted on 01/27/2006 9:57:13 AM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Skibane

I'm glad this guy got out ok, but he made a huge mistake in leaving the vehicle unattended on the street. He should have stayed with it to guard it while his gf packed their stuff.


47 posted on 01/27/2006 10:15:56 AM PST by gieriscm
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To: Para-Ord.45
Depends on the vehicle. A "go-fast" sportscar, probably. A full-size truck, probably not.

Remember this was stagnant water, not swift-running water, which also has an effect. I'd take my pickup across 12" of non-moving water without a thought. If it's flowing, no way.

48 posted on 01/27/2006 10:20:50 AM PST by gieriscm
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To: Para-Ord.45
"wouldn`t 4 feet of water float a vehicle?"

My Experience is with full sized pick up trucks with 500 to 1000 pounds of gear in the bed. I can say that four feet is not enough to float a 1/2 Ton or 3/4 Ton pick up with that kind of load, but I think it also depends on whether there is a current in the water or if the vehicle is going slowly or not.

I have seen green horns hit a ford with 4 feet of water over a distance of 20 feet at mid point, going 30 miles an hour and have watched the vehicle bog down in the middle of the stream. I have seen the same type of vehicle (PU) crawl through the same ford and out the other side (4WD of course). Much more than that will cause the ass end to float first and even then the front wheels still grab. If current gets under the floating ass end and pivots the truck, its game over too. Driving skill matters a lot.

Of couse , as dumb college students with company vehicles we often pushed the limits when we should not have.Our job was to get into inaccessable areas and set up base camps for survey work. Looking back on it, it was a LOT of fun. We all, fortunately, carried hand powered come alongs and heavy rope which would pull the truck out for drying out, if we got bogged down.

The venerable " Dodge Power Wagon" was the best PU for this all back in the late sixties and early 70's.

I once got a Land Rover stuck so bad, it took a D7 dozer to haul me out, so I am no expert either.

1969 Dodge Power Wagon,318, 4 speed standard.

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49 posted on 01/27/2006 4:11:53 PM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal Flatulence Goes the Hope of the West)
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To: Candor7
Back in '80-'82 I had the 1971 3/4T, Dana 60s both ends, rear locker. Sat a little taller than the one in the picture. Also had a factory installed PTO winch up front. One brutal truck, not much it wouldn't haul or pull, and nobody ever got in my way (or stayed in my way at least). And it had a surprisingly good ride on the highway at speed. Went about 8 miles on a gallon of gas.

Looked just like this one if you added the extended front bumper and winch.


50 posted on 01/28/2006 1:55:39 AM PST by Clinging Bitterly (Oregon - a pro-militia and firearms state that looks just like Afghanistan .)
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