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US Links to Croatian War Crime?
SPIEGEL ^

Posted on 01/24/2006 8:36:47 AM PST by montyspython

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To: Hoplite

Oh, That's good with the testimony......Someone sent me the entire trial transcript to Nov 21......what a file it is....I need to update it and get the ones to date.


51 posted on 01/25/2006 11:23:15 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
Secondly, in the case of Izbica, the ICTY for. couldn't find any bodies.

Tom, stop before you sink any lower.

Again, from General Stevanovic's testimony:

Page 40496

12   You accept, don't you, that evidence of the destination of bodies
13   has grown over time since this trial started, in particular because of the
14   findings in Batajnica and thereabouts?
15   A. You mean the destination of the bodies found in Izbica?
16   Q. Yes.
17   A. Yes, I did have that information, namely that some of the victims
18   were found in the mass grave in Batajnica.

You're just out in your own little world - not even Milosevic's defence witnesses are parrotting the same BS you're spewing here.

Bodies from Izbica were actually recovered from the Petrovo Selo mass grave (Serbia), rather than Batajnica, but your assertion that the ICTY couldn't find any bodies falls right into place with all your other assertions - demonstrably incorrect.

You're beyond useless as a source of information, Tom. You're nothing more than a secondhand source of disinformation, and anybody who listens to you is going to be worse off for the experience.

52 posted on 01/25/2006 11:49:32 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Hoplite,

Gee, sorry that I didn't question him before. You imbecile....I did send the witness a special invitation to see be before the trial. He refused my offer for coffee.

Hopelite, you are a complete idiot. We can do this all day and I'll move on when I'm tired of playing these silly games with you.

And, I'm not stopping, get use to it......I'm very daunted by anyone that walks around breathing. As I said, More info will be coming out, hey, maybe with your contacts you can get the scoop before the next testimonies.

So, this does bring up an interesting point. Why would the victims from Izbica, be found in Batajnica. How does he know when no bodies were identified. Also, are you saying that the Serbs moved the bodies in Freezer trucks to north of Belgrade? I know the KLA didn't move them to Serbia....so, the Serbs killed them, packed 142 bodies into freezer trucks, moved them to Batajnica and buried them? Did he check DNA? No, Did they identify the bodies...NO, then how pray tell, does he know this....I say he is lying. Also, notice.......Capt America, that he said...."He DID have this information"....meaning he doesn't now....I bet you he lost it...right? What say he is an Anti-Milosevic supporter...hmmmmmmmm??

Try again, sport...go back to your buddies that is trying to discredit me and the others and tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. :) wink.....

Tom


53 posted on 01/25/2006 12:57:47 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

"I'm not daunted by anyone that walks around breathing"

***there goes my terrible English again. Well, I would rather have the terrible first draft English than your lies. Thought we were finally having a normal conversation until you came back with this one......So, we back on the insulting track....no problem....


54 posted on 01/25/2006 1:00:30 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
No Tom, you didn't question General Stevanovic.

Why would you? You know more than he does, in addition to knowing more than anybody else who's ever been to Kosovo - you're the man: the only source of information out there, and if anybody says anything to contradict you, well then obviously the fault lies with them, and not with your (recently gained from Serbian disinformation websites) encyclopedic and infallible knowledge of the subject.

Even if they were a General in the Serbian Special Police during Milosevic's reign.

That's just too damned funny.

How's about Vojislav Seselj? He also acknowledged the movement of corpses from Izbica to Petrovo Selo in his testimony at Milosevic's trial - even gave a victim's name: Dibran Dani. Is he lying about it too?

LOL. Yer pathetic.

55 posted on 01/25/2006 2:59:52 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: montyspython

Monty your to much....


56 posted on 01/25/2006 4:49:11 PM PST by Wraith (The village called the idiot is missing...)
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To: Hoplite

"Why would you? You know more than he does, in addition to knowing more than anybody else who's ever been to Kosovo - you're the man: the only source of information out there, and if anybody says anything to contradict you, well then obviously the fault lies with them, and not with your (recently gained from Serbian disinformation websites) encyclopedic and infallible knowledge of the subject."

*****I'm not quite sure what you trying to accomplish, unless I'm trained in "remote viewing" and can read your mind. I can only go on instinct, and the knowledge that you are a very disturbed individual. The personal attacks, the focus on trying to discredit my contributions, or maybe cause me frustration to that I will go away, or, who knows what your juvenile agenda might be. Certainly you're trying to provoke me to say certain things that may or may not get me banned. I was informed that this is your cowardly style.

Anyway, this post is designed to provoke a defensive response resulting in me justifying my contributions and the validity of each. However, this what I am here for, to learn, and contribute, connect the dots with others that is in the know, and coming up with a picture. Every now and then you run into insecure posters, some are lonely and need to express themselves online because they have no social life, or the wife is dominate and ....:))) overpowers them at home, so this is a release, or actual disinfo agents paid to provide wrong information in the mainstream or, or.......hello, just people with very poor character out of control with their life...and needs to vent. Which are you by the way? The youngest in the family or the one picked on in school........:))

I appreciate your comments, that I know more than the General.....You apparently aren't familar with the politics of the Balkans. It would be interesting to know what political line the General takes and the others. If you recall who arrested Milosevic in the first place......Gee whiz, you think that the other party would try to keep Milosevic in jail and maybe arrested...to justify the arrest. Naw.......

There are just too many conflicting stories it requires more research.........

This thing with you is becoming more and more wasteful as maybe that is your purpose......However, the good part of it, it does lead to more knowledge by doing more research......this is not a bad thing.....you are a waste, as the issues could be addressed with a more productive instead of a destructive approach, however, you seem to have a long time reputation of being a Mouth walking with legs.....but the issues are signficant.

Tom


57 posted on 01/25/2006 5:04:28 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite; tgambill; montyspython; ma bell; Incorrigible; FormerLib; getoffmylawn
Gee what can I say Hoplite it looks like a communal effort took out the trash to the curb.

It seems that you are getting all balled up on the word alleged. The mass grave hype was huge in the effort to demonize the Serbs, the kind of hype that formulates your so called point of view. Of course their were lots of ALLEGED mass graves It happened in Bosnia so it has to be the same thing in Kosovo? This is the kind of logic a retired reservist/cook would use.

No dickweed we are not the liars but I would really like to know what qualifications you have to be an authority on the Kosovo conflict other than being a weekend warrior cook. A grade 8 education and kitchen experience does not cut it. Tom has made the point here. It is sobering to see open minded members of FR come out of no where and tune you in. I did not invite them Hoplite they just stepped up. You seem to lack support from your end, so Piss off and good night....

58 posted on 01/25/2006 5:20:20 PM PST by Wraith (The village called the idiot is missing...)
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To: FormerLib
Reality is sometimes hard for the old guy to swallow...
59 posted on 01/25/2006 5:23:50 PM PST by Wraith (The village called the idiot is missing...)
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To: zagor-te-nej
Zagor thanks for your input the truth about the KLA evil continues to surface. The Serbs got a raw deal in Kosovo. Been there got the tee shirt...
60 posted on 01/25/2006 5:26:09 PM PST by Wraith (The village called the idiot is missing...)
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To: tgambill
I'm not quite sure what you trying to accomplish

Quite simply, I was trying to get you to make a complete fool of yourself.

Given that you chose to compound your initial lie with further lies, simply digging yourself deeper into your hole until now you're questioning Milosevic's own witnesses, well, mission accomplished.

61 posted on 01/25/2006 5:32:34 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Wraith
we are not the liars

Yeah, you are.

The mass grave at Vidomiric is not "alleged", it's a proven fact.

62 posted on 01/25/2006 5:40:31 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Wraith

I thought good Clintonistas could swallow anything!


63 posted on 01/25/2006 5:48:31 PM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: montyspython

Wasn't Wesley Clark the US commander in Europe in 1995?


64 posted on 01/25/2006 5:49:54 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: tgambill

He doesn't believe anything any Serbs says...unless he says something against another Serb, then Hoopy thinks he's the return of one of those Oracles.


65 posted on 01/25/2006 5:50:05 PM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: wagglebee

Want to guess who cook Wes' pancakes for him?


66 posted on 01/25/2006 5:51:31 PM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: ma bell

We should all be chipping in to have a gold statue made of you :-D


67 posted on 01/25/2006 6:02:26 PM PST by getoffmylawn (The 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox...now Konerko AND Thome? Are you kidding me???)
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To: Hoplite

"Quite simply, I was trying to get you to make a complete fool of yourself."

******* :)) Hoplite, it's impossible to make a fool of me. Do you want to know why? Naw...well, I'll tell you anyway. Let's say that I did some research and discovered that the testimony matched OSCE and UN reports. If it is discovered that I made an error or made a discovery that is contrary to what I was told or thought.....as a result of recent and unpublished testimony, then I have learned something. Ever hear of Glass half full or half empty...?? never mind, You're missing the glass.....

Ah, so we learn something after reading the "report(s)", and the perps are convicted, then we have "learned" something and maybe we, you, or I weren't correct. Then, you say, ah okay, mistake made, you learn the truth and move on. It's still a win win situation. However, you seem to be an all knowing individual that you accuse me of. Hmmmmmmmm....

A cliche comes to mind......."Thats the pot calling the kettle black".... better wipe the soot from your face.....




"Questioning Milosevic's own witnesses, well, mission accomplished."

****** I don't see a problem with that......If you do, that's your problem....So, Hoplite you failed again. This is getting interesting. Several other posters have written to you....and yet you still focus on me. Which isn't a problem.

It makes me curious. Even if I'm mistaken in some issue(s), it's still not a problem, as I'm secure enough to admit I was wrong. You seem to think if one is mistaken it's a bad thing. This shows your frame of thinking...or your extreme insecurity. So, didn't your mama give you enough love or, did someone you love leave you...I'm sorry.

Hoplete...Forgetting to load your weapon and then go into combat is a very bad thing. But everything else is just petty stuff.....You, on the other hand, are trying to make a square peg seem like a round one no matter what and by every way possible. This is apparently due to some agenda or a severe lack of esteem. Gee whizzer, do I have me a "boneified" stalker.....:)) lololol......

See ya pal.....




"simply digging yourself deeper into your hole until now you're questioning Milosevic's own witnesses, well, mission accomplished."


68 posted on 01/25/2006 6:45:27 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: montyspython

Probably Americans did not have interest to bomb them, but they will. Albanians are like their Chechen cousins – they are unable to live peacefully with their neighbors. Sooner or later they will clash with occupying forces.


69 posted on 01/25/2006 8:22:43 PM PST by zagor-te-nej (USS - United States of Serbia)
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To: Hoplite; tgambill; montyspython; ma bell; getoffmylawn
First of all bite me, secondly you are only grasping at straws. It comes down to what is ones definition of a mass grave. Yes Vidomiric had 28 vitims so what. This incident does not equate to genocide booboo and is just that an incident. Is this is the big picture, so adjust your brain accordingly i.e. where are the tens of thousands of Kosovo Albanians supposedly kill by the Serbs and buried in mass graves which equates to genocide? Well where are they hoplelite? Your level of understanding is on a small level because you'll post anything to regain what little credibility you ever had.

Get on the same page as the rest of the adults and stop thinking small, then again retirement in a second rate trailer park is a measure of your lowered expectations in life, right small change?

70 posted on 01/26/2006 8:02:27 AM PST by Wraith (The village called the idiot is missing...)
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To: zagor-te-nej

Yes they will.......We've known that since 1999, but no one of course wants to hear it. They are keen with the UN and of course the U.S......(Bill Clinton Blvd and his picture on a very large building on the same street in Pristina).....until the Independence Issue is resolved. If they don't get independence, they will more than likely join with Al Qaeda. However, the Albanian Mafia has a Lobbying group founded here in the U.S.....Also, they gave 500K or more to the Democrats for the Kerry Campaign in the last election. These are just blurps of the past connections. There is a relationship between the CIA and the Albanians extremist.

If they do get independence, then they are going to want NATO out, ....and most of the NGO's that do not yield money in the pocket. The U.S. Stay.....

Then, they will target southern Serbia (East Kosovo) and will start wanting to annex from Serbia. Also, at the same time, Albanian rebels in Western Macedonia, which is heavy in Islamic Extremism, will start trouble. As a matter of fact 17 or so, members of MPRI was working with the NLA during the first Conflict in 2003. It was confirmed by several sources that the claims of the Macedonian security forces stating that the "NLA" was or should I say is not a "local" terrorist organization, but that it was established and led by centers in Kosovo.

The first operation in Macedonia failed, because of many reasons. One, for example, was that the different NLA factions started fighting each other...:))

It might be also noted that In western Macedonia many of their Mosques are very much like the middle east.

Kosovo goes independent then that will give Sandjak and maybe The Croatian Democratic Union of Vojvodina more justification to also become independent. They have stated that Croatian people living in Vojvodina do not have equal rights, and the party’s president Petar Kuntic back last year, I believe....(concerning the date); said that while these problems have been talked about earlier, no progress has been made in rectifying the situation.

Kuntic said that one of the main problems is that officials of Croatian nationality are not been allowed to become representatives in the Serbian Parliament.

“Affirmation principles have not been implemented for us, even though we are the second largest minority group in Vojvodina. By the current election laws we cannot have an authentic representative, and there are also a few more problems we have with regulations tied to our cultural autonomy.” Kuntic said.


This is the very simplistic version...... we shall see......I don't see that bombing will happen, but counter-insurgency might be. Wouldn't that be a hoot, the sides change and we join with Serbia for conducting counter-insurgency against Albanian extremist and Al Qaeda which is there also......mostly in Bosnia, Albania and Macedonia.

The monetary strings of the Albanian extremist are in New York and the UK. The head of this is or one of the heads is a person named Krasniqi in New York. They have very very close ties with Thaci and Ramush H. in Kosovo. Krasniqi has or had a very close tie with Holbrooke and the Democratic party with Kerry....interesting don't you think......:)


71 posted on 01/26/2006 9:59:34 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Wraith
So what?

You and Tom are both liars when it comes to mass graves in Kosovo - that's what.

You see Wraith, to some, the truth is of paramount importance.

To others, like you and Tom, it's merely optional: Useful if it's on your side as you promote whatever interests you're pursuing, and to be ignored, obfuscated, or misrepresented if it's not.

You'll figure out which is actually the best way to go about things someday, I'm sure.

72 posted on 01/26/2006 10:07:12 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; tgambill
"Useful if it's on your side as you promote whatever interests you're pursuing, and to be ignored, obfuscated, or misrepresented if it's not"

You have described yourself perfectly! Their are a lot out there who would agree. Their is no personal gain for me, I believe in the truth, the real truth before it gets spun for some political or strategic reason and thats all. Tom is the same way. You can't accept anything Hoplite....

73 posted on 01/26/2006 10:41:01 AM PST by Wraith (The village called the idiot is missing...)
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To: Hoplite

You are an enigma, or is it, you are an "egnoramus".

Hoplite, I don't like saying this very juvenile "tags" or writing these useless and ridiculous posts that are a waste of time. We are on the verge of a nuclear exchange, war going on in more countries than Clinton has girlfriends....and a very unpredictable future. Here you are exchanging emails like you do....on a very professional site and viewed by thousands of people and who knows what status.....what are you accomplishing.

OH, I know your response...."I'm exposing ....whoever and whoever for the liars that they are"...I can hear you now....:)) It's about sharing info....learning...and uncovering the truth...that's it.

The mass graves.....it's never been clear..the point is, the Clinton Admin. said hundreds in graves, genocide, thousands killed..etc.... Yes, the Serb paramilitary's killed people. I have a Top secret document written in 1998 I "obtained" from Belgrade detailing this effort and five rules of engagement against the Albanians. The Serbs have identified the perps, and are going after them....

The KLA also murdered Serbs and they are finding "mass graves" of Serbs....since August 2005 as a matter of fact. the KLA massacres' included whole villages and they even killed the farm animals. They also murdered Albanians that were considered collaborators. The KLA also used dead bodies from the NATO bombing for "mass graves"....it is also possible that the Serbs took bodies to Serbia for hiding....the locations you mentioned were interesting and provided good info.....the issue of mass graves is very confusing and deceptive.

One thing we know for sure...there was not any genocide and mass graves in the sense that the Clinton Admin reported.

I've got things to do and will probably allow you the last word....:) but, I felt an obligation to write this......

Oh, I also know that you take some pride in getting people banned....as in the past....


74 posted on 01/26/2006 11:03:20 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Wraith; ma bell; Monty Python

post previous


75 posted on 01/26/2006 11:04:47 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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