As interesting as jokers who come to online forums and try to push lies that are so pathetically transparent that their only recourse when confronted with the facts is to attack the source of those facts, whether it be the United States State Department, the OSCE, or ICTY?
But in an abnormal psychology kind of way, not a Balkan history kind of way.
By the way, Tom, the existence of the mass graves at Pusto Selo and Izbica, which had for so long been denied by Serb apologists, was confirmed by Stevanovic while he was giving testimony at Milosevic's trial, while being examined by Milosevic no less.
So not only have we confirmed the existence of mass graves you're lying about by actually finding them, we've had the existence of mass graves which the Serbs emptied before we could find them confirmed.
Ah well, like you said, you aren't being paid for your efforts, and like I said, you're giving the Serbs their money's worth.
posted on 01/24/2006 3:55:17 PM PST
there are no where near the mass graves that was claimed. Tell me where Hoppy are the mass graves of Kosovo? Tell me where the mass graves of Racak? The Serbs that were responsible for killing Albanians are being handled by the Serbs as they are aware and are taking care of their own. Nothing can be said about ICTY and The Hague.
I wondered when you were going to pop your little ole head up and find something that you can say. There are many different ways to introduce information or points other than the less than professional way that you do.
However, I've certainly ran into a few that have been worse....if that were possible....:).
There have been many of the so called facts said about the Serbs that have been false to justify entrance into the Balkans. However, I do understand the reasons for entering, (race there before Al Qaeda gets an early foothold, pipeline from the caspian, and keep an eye on Islam that is germanating in the Balkans, etc... Obviously, this is a simplistic view, it's much more complicated and beyond the scope of this forum.....
One example of the manipulation and change of policy:
There's a military insurrection that is taking shape, backed by the members of the Albania Diaspora in Germany, Switzerland, and right here in New York City, where a lot of Albanians and Albanian-Americans are sending a lot of money and support to Kosovo. (Gosh - NYC? -SG)
Holbrooke: An independent Kosovo would "unravel Southeastern Europe."
JIM LEHRER: And they want an independent Kosovo ruled by Albanians, right?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Yes. And more. I met with several Albanian leaders in Kosovo who said their goal is an independent Kosovo, their goal is to recreate the Greater Albania that existed briefly during the 30's and 40's, which includes Albania, Kosovo, and part of Macedonia. That, I can tell you, Jim, would unravel Southeastern Europe and dramatically increase the chances of a general war. And that's why the situation is both not the same as Bosnia and why it's so dangerous I really need to stress this point so people do not misunderstand it. The Kosovo Albanians have been very badly treated for over a decade by the Serb minority in Kosovo. Their rights have been denied and the Yugoslav federal constitution was changed to reduce their powers. This was entirely wrong, and it led to the inevitable reaction which we're now seeing. At the same time, the violent solution which is being advocated by the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army, which is really not an army but a lot of different groups that are gradually forming an infrastructure of resistance, this approach is highly dangerous to stability in the region.
Sept. 10, 2002
Cumberland, Md.: Where you aware of the KLA and Bosnian Muslims' ties to Osama bin Laden at the time you were negotiating with them?
Richard C. Holbrooke: Yes. In fact, we were so concerned about this issue that we wrote into the Dayton Peace Agreements a clause requiring the withdrawal of all "foreign elements" within a short time after the agreement took force. When we found elements that had remained behind, we launched raids against them. Not all of these people were removed, and the effort is still continuing. Without the peace in Bosnia, there is a real chance that bin Laden would have been able to set up in the Balkans what he did in Afghanistan with far greater danger to the West.
Now--fast-forward Nov 8 2005:
Holbrooke, the architect of the 1995 Bosnian peace deal, who said that independence was the only way forward for Kosovo and its mainly Muslim Albanians.
"I cannot see any final status for Kosovo other than independence," said Holbrooke, who forged the Dayton Peace Accords that ended Bosnia's 1992-95 war.
"But at the same time ... this cannot be achieved without ironclad guarantees for the safety, security, and protection of the rights of the Serbs who live in Kosovo and the protection of their magnificent monuments," he said.
mass graves: http://www.serbia-info.com/news/1999-08/28/14126.html
More mass graves were found in Maleselev in August 2005.....
Mass graves were found in several places of Albanians. The Serbs as I said before are prosecuting these criminals after the U.S. put their foot down for them to do so. The Serbs have been such good boys and girls in cleaning up their closet that they are sending troops to work with the UN.....
Now, what convictions have been upheld for Ramush H. and Fatmir Limaj? None.....Six witnesses against Ramush have been murdered to include Tahir Zemaj, was a former FARK member, and member of LDK pol party. Long time enemy of Thaci.
mass graves: Yes, both Albanians and Serbs......
Hopelite....search for the truth not partial truth as you would cover up the truth......try again, cut the sarcasm and share, provided discussion, facts (that are researched). So, if you can't, don't go away mad....just go away. Or, come up with an unbiased opjective discussion.
posted on 01/24/2006 5:09:03 PM PST
(I would like to comment.....)
To: Hoplite; Wraith; ma bell; getoffmylawn; tgambill
So, any comments on the article or are you just going to sit there and chase Tom around like a little puppy dog?
posted on 01/25/2006 7:29:25 AM PST
(Love that chicken from Popeye's)
To: Hoplite; ma bell; montyspython; Wraith; A. Pole; Incorrigible; getoffmylawn; robowombat
"The existence of the mass graves at Pusto Selo and Izbica"
***** Hopline....You have been a dirty little boy. I know now that you aren't working for someone professional to be a disinfo agent. Know why? I caught you in a very unsophiscated lie. Let me show you.
"By the way, Tom, the existence of the mass graves at Pusto Selo and Izbica, which had for so long been denied by Serb apologists, was confirmed by Stevanovic while he was giving testimony at Milosevic's trial, while being examined by Milosevic no less.
So not only have we confirmed the existence of mass graves you're lying about by actually finding them, we've had the existence of mass graves which the Serbs emptied before we could find them confirmed."
****Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I could be mistaken in that I arrived in October 1999, and can only account for the period afterwards.....so, I researched and found the following:
The actual cross of Stevanovic was as follows: http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/smorg060205.htm
"Gen. Stevanovic claimed that this was a reference to the activities of the KLA. He said that the terrain needed to be cleaned-up so that the KLA could not create mass-graves and stage atrocities out of their war casualties, and then palm them off as evidence of mass killings that would serve to justify the NATO aggression.
The KLA has a history of staging its war dead to create the false impression of a massacre. A case in point is Racak, and Gen. Stevanovic said they did the same thing at Pusto Selo and Izbica.
Obviously Stevanovic was not referring to the polices activity. Nobody ever classifies their own activity as perfidious or uses the word they to refer to themselves.
Mr. Nice was simply exploiting vaguely worded notes that Stevanovic jotted down in his diary to concoct elaborate conspiracy theories about the Serbian police; conspiracy theories, which the witness ripped apart.
Frustrated at his lack of success, the prosecutor resorted to insults and claimed that the witness was "ready to lie in order to protect this accused." The witness naturally denied this claim."
END QUOTE OF REPORT
******So, Where did Stevanovic confirm these massacres'? It seems that he didn't confirm them at all. Explain to me relative to the cross and to your accusation. What am I missing?
So, I did some MORE research and discovered an official report based on the ICTY forensic team. Here is what happened. The OSCE gained intell from interviews of refugees in the FRYOM. (Former Yuglslav Republic of Macedonia). It was reported that a massacre of civilians took place in Izbica/Izbice during three days at the end of April. The villagers buried the victims who were mainly from Leocina/lecine. Srbica/Skenderaj municipility, along with other people killed in the vicinity. The burial of these 142 bodies, which included women and children in the center of the village was documented by the KLA (UCK) on videotape. On 2 June, it was reported that Serb forces removed the bodies to an unknown destination. The ICTY forensic team arrived at the beginning of July and exhumed 142 graves......ALL WERE EMPTY. Reportedly, the bodies had been previoiusly identified but had later disappeared. Now this would seem to confirm Stevanovic's story. NOW, I wonder if the defense has accesss to the same reports that I can get hold of....??? anyway, these are official not rumor. I couldn't find anything yet on the Pusto Selo report.
It was also known that bodies were used from the NATO bombing, to show mass graves, Refugees from FRYROM, were told what to say, and either threatened or given money. It's hard to pin point what is true and what is fabricated.
What do you say for yourself at this time......now, I'm going to research the other ones you wrote and let's see if they pan out....
posted on 01/25/2006 9:45:04 AM PST
(I would like to comment.....)
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