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Henry VII's chapel found at Greenwich (England)
Telegraph ^ | January 25, 2006 | Nigel Reynolds

Posted on 01/25/2006 10:12:32 AM PST by NYer

As muddy holes go, they don't get much more romantic. Beneath four feet of heavy south London clay, archaeologists have uncovered the remains of Henry VII's lost chapel at Greenwich.

The site is where he and a host of his Tudor successors - Henry VIII, Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I - worshipped.

 
Henry VII's lost chapel graphic
Click to enlarge

The existence of the chapel, part of the Royal Palace of Placentia, a Tudor favourite but pulled down in the 17th century to be replaced by Greenwich Hospital - now the Old Naval College - has long been known from paintings and records.

But until a bulldozer's bucket scraped against brickwork a month ago, no physical evidence of the chapel had ever been discovered.

Careful scratching away by a team of four archaeologists from the Museum of London has revealed the eastern walls of the chapel, a 10ft by 5ft section of floor made from black and white glazed tiles laid geometrically, and, beneath, a so-far unexplored vault.

The floor, at the eastern end of the chapel, almost certainly supported the altar before which the Tudor monarchs would have prayed.

The archaeologists may also have unearthed the spot where Henry VIII stood during his marriages to Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves.

Both weddings took place in the Palace of Placentia - which means pleasant place to live - but records do not show whether they were in the chapel itself or, more probably as some historians believe, in a private room or closet in his quarters overlooking the chapel.

To the east of the chapel, more works have unearthed the foundations and fireplaces of its vestry.

"This is an astonishing survival," declared Simon Thurley, the chief executive of English Heritage and author of a study of Tudor palaces.

"For the first time ever we can see close up and in detail the east end of a Tudor royal chapel. Unlike Hampton Court and St James's Palace, where the chapels have been altered, here we can see what Henry VIII and Queen Elizabeth would have seen. These have the potential to throw fresh light on the inner workings of the Tudor court."

The historian Dr David Starkey was equally enthusiastic. He said: "This gives us a real sense of the absolute heart of the palace.

"When Henry was married to Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves in the first-floor closet, what he saw through the window was the tiled floor and altar that have now been revealed."

Julian Bowsher, the Museum of London's senior archaeologist, said: "This is the most important find I've made in the past 10 years."

Placentia is the least known of London's Tudor palaces. Formerly a manor called Bellacourt, it passed to Henry VI who named it L'Pleazaunce or Placentia because of its agreeable situation.

It was the favourite residence of Henry VIII during the first half of his reign, and his daughters Mary and Elizabeth were born there.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: archaeology; chapel; godsgravesglyphs; greenwich; henryviii; henryviiwasausurper; monarch; royals
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1 posted on 01/25/2006 10:12:34 AM PST by NYer
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To: SunkenCiv; blam; sionnsar

Ping!


2 posted on 01/25/2006 10:13:33 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


3 posted on 01/25/2006 10:14:29 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

Wow. This is a wonderful discovery.


4 posted on 01/25/2006 10:14:36 AM PST by proudofthesouth (Mao said that power comes at the point of a rifle; I say FREEDOM does.)
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To: NYer

were any wives found?


5 posted on 01/25/2006 10:14:59 AM PST by jw777
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To: NYer

bump


6 posted on 01/25/2006 10:17:16 AM PST by VOA
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To: jw777

Just some condom wrappers. No wonder he had such difficulty producing a male heir...


7 posted on 01/25/2006 10:21:41 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: NYer; indcons; Pharmboy; blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; ...
Thanks NYer! Masterpiece Theater flashbacks all around.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

8 posted on 01/25/2006 10:23:39 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv

this is interesting...


9 posted on 01/25/2006 10:27:01 AM PST by Guenevere
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To: NYer
It was the favourite residence of Henry VIII during the first half of his reign, and his daughters Mary and Elizabeth were born there...where was his son, Edward VI (by lady Jane), born?
10 posted on 01/25/2006 10:28:22 AM PST by meandog (FUDU)
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To: NYer

Most cool! But who cares about Henry VII? The news would garner more interest if the title was "Henry VIII's chapel0" or "Elizabeth 1st's chapel found".


11 posted on 01/25/2006 10:33:53 AM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: NYer
"Both weddings took place in the Palace of Placentia"




The Palace of Placenta!

No recipes please.
12 posted on 01/25/2006 10:34:58 AM PST by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: SunkenCiv

that would be Henry the VIII.

I just watched Master piece theater.


13 posted on 01/25/2006 10:37:48 AM PST by BarbM
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To: SunkenCiv

that would be Henry the VIII.

I just watched Master piece theater.


14 posted on 01/25/2006 10:37:49 AM PST by BarbM
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To: NYer

Maybe they'll find Richard III's altar..............


15 posted on 01/25/2006 10:38:07 AM PST by Red Badger (LUKE 22:36 JESUS: "........and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."........)
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To: BarbM
The site is where he and a host of his Tudor successors - Henry VIII, Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I - worshipped.

16 posted on 01/25/2006 10:41:05 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Oh, never mind.


17 posted on 01/25/2006 10:43:06 AM PST by BarbM
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To: Red Badger

Or perhaps, the remains of the Little Princes, right under the floor, in Henry VII's old bedroom.


18 posted on 01/25/2006 10:44:09 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I mean where he sacrificed them to the devil..........


19 posted on 01/25/2006 10:46:51 AM PST by Red Badger (LUKE 22:36 JESUS: "........and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."........)
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To: NYer

bump


20 posted on 01/25/2006 10:47:39 AM PST by Serb5150 (Mr. T is allergic to doorknobs. That's why he can only kick through doors.)
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To: meandog; Republicanprofessor; hellinahandcart; AnAmericanMother
Edward VI was born at Hampton Court, on Oct. 12, 1537.

1539 portrait by Hans Holbein the Younger.

21 posted on 01/25/2006 11:00:00 AM PST by dighton
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To: NYer

Still remember the jingle about the wives of Henry VIII:

"Divorced, beheaded and died
Divorced, beheaded and alive."


22 posted on 01/25/2006 11:04:37 AM PST by lilylangtree
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To: NYer

bookmark


23 posted on 01/25/2006 11:06:04 AM PST by freema (Proud Marine FRiend, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: lilylangtree; NYer
"Divorce, beheaded, and survived (him)."

(Catherine Parr is dead now.)

24 posted on 01/25/2006 11:08:16 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: BarbM

The excavators also discovered Henry VII's kitchen. The cook's name was Alistair.

[rimshot!]


25 posted on 01/25/2006 11:15:17 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: jw777
were any wives found?

Or at least any wives' parts?
26 posted on 01/25/2006 11:20:57 AM PST by AaronInCarolina
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To: NYer
Both weddings took place in the Palace of Placentia...
...probably as some historians believe, in a private room or closet...
"When Henry was married to Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves in the first-floor closet...

?

Good grief... why would they get married in a closet?

27 posted on 01/25/2006 11:24:45 AM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: NYer

Hmmmm. I wonder what's in the vault??? Or, WHO?


28 posted on 01/25/2006 11:27:16 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: NYer
Careful scratching away by a team of four archaeologists from the Museum of London has revealed the eastern walls of the chapel, a 10ft by 5ft section of floor made from black and white glazed tiles laid geometrically, and, beneath, a so-far unexplored vault.

Has Geraldo booked his tickets yet?

Some have speculated that Henry IV might have been canonized, had the break with Rome not occurred.

29 posted on 01/25/2006 11:31:01 AM PST by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: SunkenCiv

An unexplored vault? Better call Geraldo. Empty bottle ping coming your way.


30 posted on 01/25/2006 11:54:39 AM PST by printhead
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To: printhead

BUMP!


31 posted on 01/25/2006 12:51:58 PM PST by Publius6961 (The IQ of California voters is about 420........... .............cumulatively)
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To: SunkenCiv
" Or perhaps, the remains of the Little Princes, right under the floor, in Henry VII's old bedroom. "

Now that would be interesting. I think Richard had less to do with their death's than Henry did.

32 posted on 01/25/2006 4:05:04 PM PST by asp1
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To: adam_az

You're disgusting!

:-p


33 posted on 01/25/2006 5:09:51 PM PST by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: Ciexyz

Henry VII was the king of England when John Cabot discovered Newfoundland in 1497, giving England its first claim on North America. In a fit of unwonted generosity, Henry VII rewarded Cabot with 10 pounds.


34 posted on 01/25/2006 6:58:06 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus

Poor John Cabot -- you only get 10 pounds when you're five years too late.


35 posted on 01/25/2006 8:28:58 PM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: asp1
Definitely. The Parliament had issued the Titulus Regius spelling out the succession, which pushed aside the children in favor of Richard (on the basis that their father had been married before, albiet briefly, making the children illegitimate -- this was before Henry VIII's schism), who was not therefore a usurper, but the legitimate monarch. After Richard's murder by treachery on the battlefield, Henry VII had to get the Titulus Regius destroyed, and all were collected and burned, save one that was overlooked (hence its contents and existence is known). He did this in order to marry the sister of the Little Princes so that he'd have a claim to the throne that would hold up; but by relegitimizing the princess, the Little Princes suddenly became the legitimate heirs of Richard III's late elder brother and predecessor. So, he had them disappear, pinned it on Richard III...
36 posted on 01/25/2006 10:32:15 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: adam_az

You're reading my mind, not that it's complicated reading material. LOL.


37 posted on 01/26/2006 12:55:44 AM PST by rdl6989
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To: SunkenCiv
Indeed. Have you ever heard of the Richard the Third Society? It is an organization dedicated to clearing Richard's name of the scurrilous charges made against him. In 1985, the Society was able to have an official funeral mass said for Richard marking the 500th anniversary of his death. Everything ever written about Richard prior to Henry's ascension to the throne indicated that Richard was a man of honor and integrity. He was not interested in court life, or the power and intrigue that went with it.

One other thing, Sir Thomas More while employed by Cardinal Morton, was commissioned by the Cardinal to write a history of Richard's reign and eventual overthrow by Henry VII. Of course Morton expected that Sir Thomas would tow the party line and give a glowing account of how Henry defeated the evil Richard on the battle field and saved England from his tyranny. The manuscript was never published by More. More was a trusted member of Morton's household and probably knew a great deal about the events unfolding in England at the time. Being a man of indisputable integrity, More could not put his name to such rubbish.

38 posted on 01/26/2006 10:08:15 AM PST by asp1
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To: asp1

Daughter of Time, by Josephine Tey. Excellent book. Makes the case that Richard III was maligned.The lady did not think highly of the Tudors. Oh, and the Princes' bones were found in a staircase in the Tower, not in Greenwich.


39 posted on 01/26/2006 12:09:40 PM PST by 3AngelaD
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To: 3AngelaD

One of my favorite books. I don't believe that the bones found at the Tower were ever examined for DNA. Were they the Princes? Probably, but it still doesn't answer the question: Who was responsible for their deaths? I believe that Henry VII had more to gain from the deaths of his brothers-in-law than Richard had.


40 posted on 01/26/2006 1:12:01 PM PST by asp1
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To: asp1

I'm with you. But history is written by the victors and Shakespeare didn't help.


41 posted on 01/26/2006 2:51:39 PM PST by lizma
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To: lizma
Sad isn't it. A think a lot of what Shakespeare wrote has become official "history" by too many people. It is one of the reasons that I am glad that The Richard III Society exists. They are at least trying to get at the truth. It is sad that an honorable man had his reputation eviscerated by the likes of a coward such as Henry VII.
42 posted on 01/26/2006 4:11:26 PM PST by asp1
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To: ahadams2; AnalogReigns; Uriah_lost; Condor 63; Fractal Trader; Zero Sum; anselmcantuar; Agrarian; ..
NYer, please ping newheart and Huber for the time being (for Anglican pings). I am so overloaded with work and other issues I can't make it to FR very often, at least 'til March.

Thanks to NYer for the ping.

Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by sionnsar, Huber and newheart.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

Humor: The Anglican Blue (by Huber)

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

43 posted on 01/26/2006 6:56:12 PM PST by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† | Libs: Celebrate MY diversity! | Iran Azadi 2006 | Is it February yet?)
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To: 3AngelaD

Actually, I've read that the bones were found under the ground during some demolition and laying of new foundations, and may be much more ancient. :')


44 posted on 01/26/2006 7:34:12 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: asp1
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason. -- Ovid

45 posted on 01/26/2006 10:37:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv

It was my understanding they found two sets of young boys' bones under a closed-off stairwell during renovations of the tower. Supposedly the ages of the individuals when they died matched the ages of the princes in the tower. One of those wonderful mysteries that just go on and on.


46 posted on 01/27/2006 9:27:04 AM PST by 3AngelaD
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To: Verginius Rufus

Ah yes, Giovanni Caboto, the famous, ahem, "English" navigator and explorer.
Heh heh.


47 posted on 01/27/2006 9:55:44 AM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: SunkenCiv

I thought Richard III had his brother murdered first and then got to the princes - was Shakespeare wrong?


48 posted on 01/27/2006 10:51:04 AM PST by The Right Stuff
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To: The Right Stuff

Shakespeare wrote drama not history. ;)


49 posted on 01/27/2006 12:34:09 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: SunkenCiv
This quote is attributed to Sir John Harington...haven't seen it attributed to Ovid before.

Google seems to be celebrating Mozart's 250th birthday, by the way.

50 posted on 01/27/2006 1:14:37 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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