"The election of Hamas is an extraordinary opportunity to move the peace process forward."
Posted on 01/26/2006 9:07:40 AM PST by dervish
Israeli officials convened emergency meetings on Thursday to decide how to respond to the militant Hamas group's upset victory in Palestinian elections, maintaining an outward silence while privately blaming each other for the upheaval.
Hamas' stunning showing in Wednesday's vote could send tremors through Israel's own political establishment ahead of March elections by bolstering hawks who oppose territorial concessions to the Palestinians.
'snip'
"After Hamas is elected, can the world not talk to them?" former Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom told Army Radio. "The world will speak to them saying that they were elected in a democratic process ... I think if we had prevented them from participating in the elections this wouldn't have happened."
'snip'
"Likeliest to suffer is Kadima, the centrist party Ariel Sharon formed in November, after breaking away from Likud, to seek more leeway in setting Israel's final borders. Kadima maintained a strong lead in pre-election polls, even after Sharon was incapacitated by a stroke.
Likud's leader, former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, warned that Hamas' dramatic election victory would turn the Palestinian Authority into a radical, Islamic regime."
1) Hello Likud/Netanyahu bye bye Kadima/Olmert
2) President Bush appears to be taking the stand recommended by Natan Sharansky -- allow democracy and let the people suffer their choices. President Bush has reiterated his stand not to deal with the terrorist Hamas. May his resolve hold fast.
fyi
We talk to governments that do terrible things all the time - we had contact with the U.S.S.R. all through the cold war and we talk to Cuba and North Korea, heck we talked to the Taliban before we invaded Afghanistan.
I think is actually good to have hamas elected - now we know for sure the will of the Palestinian people and we can treat them accordingly. The first step should be to cut off aid and to state that attacks by Hamas are now acts of war.
If a people freely elects terrorism, they freely elect to be legitimate targets of war.
I know it's drastic but since the Israelis have now separated the Jews from the Palistinians into different areas, why not simply take out the entire Gaza "hood" and blow all those thugs to smithereens? It would benefit the entire middle east and the world, once and for all.
"If a people freely elects terrorism..."
I'm not sure they elected terrorism as much as they rejected the corruption and incompetence of Fatah. Admittedly their choice is not a great one, but I'm not sure there was a better option available.
There was a good piece on NRO today advancing the theory that Hamas did not actually want to win, just get a big enough minority to push the rest of the gov't around.
Agreed, and BTW, why are the only ones "stunned" the media?
FR was not stunned in the least.
I agree with that! But, as you may have seen, Jimmah Carter has come out with a statement to the effect that "With the good news of a Hamas win, our first step should be to send them lots of money."
Words fail.
If you reject incompetence for terrorism, you freely elect terrorism. Time to turn Hamasistan into a parking lot.
Israel's response should be to elect Netanyahu's Likud Party and throw out the Kadima Party. It's yesterday's news.
"There was a good piece on NRO today advancing the theory that Hamas did not actually want to win, just get a big enough minority to push the rest of the gov't around. "
I could not find that piece, help??
"I'm not sure they elected terrorism as much as they rejected the corruption"
Polls have consistently shown vast Palestinian support for terror.
Hamas will be equally corrupt. Al Qaeda and Islamists have not done any better on good governance. Afghanistan was no better off under the Islamists. Yes, the Islamists spend on education - the better to indoctrinate young minds.
"The election of Hamas is an extraordinary opportunity to move the peace process forward."
There's been a lot of spin today from people claiming this is actually a GOOD thing because now Hamas is a government agent and force can be brought to bear on the Palestinians with more legitimacy if terrorist attacks continue to occur in Israel.
Frankly, I think this is a weak argument. This is a horrible thing for Hamas to be in power, and it doesn't give Israel any greater "legitimacy" in retaliation than it did before - and the reason is this: Most of the world will continue to blame Israel and hold Israel as the villain, even if a Hamas-run government is found to be outfitting kids wish bomb vests and sending them into Tel Aviv. Either way, Israel will be punished. What's worse is the potentially unifying legitimacy Hamas will have in the eyes of the Palestinian people. Everyone among the Palestinians agree that Israel must be destroyed. Any rifts between Fatah and Hamas are EASILY trumped by that common goal. It's one thing for a terrorist outfit to blow the bugle as a call to arms of the Palestinian people. It's another thing when that terrorist group is your freely elected government, which goes a long way to manifesting an identity for the Palestinian street.
The greater risk, in my opinion, is that Hamas will become Iran't proxy in Gaza as Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Further, I fear the radicalization of the Palestinian street beyond the usual rabble of rock-throwers - a kind of patriotism that concedes that despite Hamas' penchant for blowing up fellow Palestinians, heck, it worked. They're in power. Let's do the same.
Agreed - democracy does not always bring to power the most enlightened leaders (Hitler and Mussolini were elected by strong majorities). Since it is now US policy not to interfere with elections (except for Clinton, who sent his boy Carville to Israel to ensure Barak's win) we need to live with the results.
My concern is that Bush will back off the US position that US will not do business with Hamas because it is a terrorist organization that sponsors terrorism.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
It remains to be seen how corrupt/gullible the world and the Israeli left is and whether this results in a turning back of the clock.
Since 1957 the world at large recognized that the PLO and Fatah were terrorist organizations without legitimacy. In 1974 this began to change with Arafat's appearance at the UN, his English statements on Israel's right to exist and his courting of world public opinion. His was a consummate PR coup with an oil hungry world anxious for appeasement.
This fake legitimacy reached its pinnacle and began to fall after 2003, the second Intifadah, the Karine A exposure and the subsequent pariah treatment by Pres Bush and PM Sharon exposing Arafat for the corrupt terrorist he always was. The Palistinian cause has not recovered even after Arafat's death.
"The greater risk, in my opinion, is that Hamas will become Iran't proxy in Gaza as Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Further, I fear the radicalization of the Palestinian street beyond the usual rabble of rock-throwers - a kind of patriotism that concedes that despite Hamas' penchant for blowing up fellow Palestinians, heck, it worked. They're in power. Let's do the same."
You have hit on the other important variable -- whether Hamas brings increased ties with Iran/Hezbollah and Al Qaeda as I believe they will. What appears to be happening right now is that the lines are becoming clearer which was part of Pres Bush's plan ("with us or against us"). Even France has come out with a strong threat to Iran and a tough stance on Syrian interference in Lebanon. So this radicalization has a value.
Ponder Israel and then surrender some more.
How much was the Sharon family paid to be Hamas' campaign managers?
How could any Arab not vote for Hamas after they succeeded in chasing Israel our of Gaza?
Bush and Rice should also get something.
Oh my. How silly of me.
Concern? I'll bet you on it.
Only question is hours, days, weeks, or months?
Lots of variables to consider. At some point the curtain has to come down on these clowns. I don't know if we're just delaying the inevitable, or getting our ducks in a row to ensure a total victory over radical Islam...
The election blew away the sham peace negotiations that were causing Israel to be prodded mercilessly into giving up "land for peace." Now, Hamas doesn't want to negotiate, and the road map is dead. The more I think about this, if they don't want to negotiate, and their charter which they promise not to denounce is built on destroying Israel, this could be construed as an ipso facto declaration of open hostilities -- war.
I suppose at this moment in time we ARE doing business with Hamas, given this election. NOT doing business with Hamas will require action on the part of the west to cut off aid, which they will not do... at least not immediately. They will attempt to use the aid as a carrot to soften Hamas' position. Hamas, in turn, will accept as much aid as possible while telling us to go to hell all the while. Eventually some part of the free money pipeline may be cut off... no telling when. Seventeen UN resolutions for another country in the region comes to mind.
Think there is a difference between Fatah and Hamas in their aims?
Fatah, more secular, was more adept at media propaganda.
The Left, the EU, the State Dept, will train Hamas to be as good and business will become as usual.
And Israel, as always, will be the obstacle to peace.
It depends. So far, it seems that Hamas isn't able to keep ANYTHING under control. They are brownshirts without German organizational skills. Soon will come the Night of the Long Knives. Maybe tonight.
The good thing is, the leader will be easier to target when they get up to the podium for their annual State of Terror report.
"My fellow terrorists. Greetings I bring...
*PFFFFFT*. clunk. Pandemonium erupts in crowded donkey stall.
""The election of Hamas is an extraordinary opportunity to move the peace process forward.""
You know, what be be an extraordinary occurence would be if Palestinians would stop supporting terrorism and groups that use terrorism... but failing that, I'd rather their support for terrorism be open so the world can see who is on which side.
Hamas' stunning showing in Wednesday's vote could send tremors through Israel's own political establishment ahead of March elections by bolstering hawks who oppose territorial concessions to the Palestinians... Likud's leader, former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, warned that Hamas' dramatic election victory would turn the Palestinian Authority into a radical, Islamic regime."Netanyahu would be the first in line to hold talks with Hamas if he's elected PM. If anything, this development will drag Likud to an extreme position and loss of seats, strengthen Kadima or -- if this leads more Israelis to throw up their hands and think it's now mere realism to have to talk with Hamas -- they'll vote Labor.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/ottolenghi200601261002.asp
This is the link to the NRO piece. I hope it helps you find it, I am not too slick with this stuff. I thought I saw it posted here today, but I couldn't find that thread quickly. It's kind of a strangely written piece, I think it could have stood one more round with the blue pencil, but interesting nonetheless. It's up on the front page of NRO as of now.
Nothing, that is, until the moment that Katyusha rockets start coming in from Palestine and landing in Israeli neighborhoods in Jerusalem.
Then the response...to the Hamas controlled and duly elected Palestinian government...should be total and swift annihilation of the Palestinian government and the occupation of the former Palestinian lands.
Up until this point, the response from Palestine has been, "Hamas launched the rockets. This is not an action of the Palestinian authority."
Well...things are a lot different now...aren't they? Time to take off the gloves.
thank you
Netanyahu would be the first in line to hold talks with Hamas if he's elected PM. If anything, this development will drag Likud to an extreme position and loss of seats, strengthen Kadima or -- if this leads more Israelis to throw up their hands and think it's now mere realism to have to talk with Hamas -- they'll vote Labor.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
"the international community, while respecting the democratic verdict of a fundamentally fair electoral process, must hold them to account. The issue is not whether Europe, the U.S., or Israel should talk to Hamas. The issue is whether there is anything to talk about with Hamas, and the burden of proof is on Hamas to demonstrate they are capable of becoming interlocutors."
We will see how the world reacts. For the past twenty or so years a terrorist Arafat managed to convince the leftists and many governments and Nobel committees that he was interested in peace and coexistence.
There was nothing to talk about there either but the West's ability to fool itself and the Muslim leaders ability to invent scapegoats works on a different logic. Oil.
They could have voted for the Independant List, if they wanted to send Fatah an anti-corruption message.
Israel should take back the land that it ceded in exchange for a phoney "peace."
"The issue is not whether Europe, the U.S., or Israel should talk to Hamas. The issue is whether there is anything to talk about with Hamas, and the burden of proof is on Hamas to demonstrate they are capable of becoming interlocutors."
Glad you found it, and yes, that IS the best bit of the whole article.
Well, I think the proof of the pudding will be realized sooner rather than later, for good or ill. Metaphor ALERT!
That's the most important point in this whole thing, needs to be repeated whenever possible.
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