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The Real Cost of Google's Sellout to China
Editor & Publisher ^ | January 26, 2006 | Thomas Lipscomb

Posted on 01/26/2006 11:47:01 AM PST by WaterDragon

ast week Google announced its intention to resist a Department of Justice court action underway. DOJ wanted Google to allow a surveillance test of millions of its users’ search queries as part of its effort to enforce online pornography legislation passed by Congress to protect children. Yahoo, AOL, and MSN had already agreed to cooperate. But now, in an extraordinary development, Google has announced its decision to join the largest internet censorship effort in the world, being run by Communist China.

Google will actively assist the Chinese government in barring access to thousands of web sites and search terms, in fact anything on the world wide web the Chinese feel might destablize its authoritarian government. It will also eliminate the blogging and email services it offers elsewhere in the world. According to the Associated Press: “Google officials characterized the censorship concessions in China as an excruciating decision for a company that adopted ‘don't be evil’ as a motto.”

(Excerpt) Read more at editorandpublisher.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: access; censorship; china; communists; congress; doj; google; internet; pornography; sellout; suppression

1 posted on 01/26/2006 11:47:02 AM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon
T
2 posted on 01/26/2006 11:48:30 AM PST by Constitution Day (It's only January, but already I vote the phrase 'culture of death' the most overused of 2006.)
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To: Constitution Day; WaterDragon
Here's an L for ya too
3 posted on 01/26/2006 11:51:14 AM PST by thoughtomator
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To: WaterDragon

To be fair, Google also complies with established law in this country (and others). We just happen to like our laws better than Chinese laws.


4 posted on 01/26/2006 11:51:29 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: thoughtomator
LOL!
5 posted on 01/26/2006 11:52:04 AM PST by Constitution Day (It's only January, but already I vote the phrase 'culture of death' the most overused of 2006.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

and to be more fair, if google balks the chinese can always get Yahoo or Microsoft to do the exact same thing. Corporations as a rule are psychopathic in character and this is no exception.


6 posted on 01/26/2006 11:53:08 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: WaterDragon

Here's more - Google shows its true colors

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B254DB30A%2DB720%2D4B94%2D90C3%2D7DBAF258DE2A%7D&siteid=mktw&dist=


7 posted on 01/26/2006 11:53:43 AM PST by abb (Because News Reporting is too important to be left to the Journalists.)
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To: Constitution Day

I wonder what Google would say if the Bush administration approached them with a plan to censor the internet by leaving out critical web sites?

"Google will actively assist the Bush government in barring access to thousands of web sites and search terms, in fact anything on the world wide web the Bush administration feels might destablize its government. It will also eliminate in the US the blogging and email services it offers elsewhere in the world."

Google spokespersons feel that this is perfectly in line with its motto of "Don't be evil" since it improves the bottom line finacially and that isn't evil.


8 posted on 01/26/2006 11:56:45 AM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: WaterDragon

Imagine if the UN ran the Internet. Such censorship would be global.


9 posted on 01/26/2006 11:57:19 AM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: WaterDragon

Nothing new to see here. Not much different than importing Chinese goods made by slave labor.


10 posted on 01/26/2006 11:57:26 AM PST by Dan Evans
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To: WaterDragon
Saw a piece on the BBC News last night about this.It mentioned Falun Gong,the group that the Chinese government is trying to destroy.When I entered that name,all that came up were articles that criticized it...calling it a cult and things like that.

So I guess google will "assist" the Chinese government in quashing a harmless group like Falun Gong,but won't lift a finger for our government in quashing islamic terrorists or porn merchants.

11 posted on 01/26/2006 11:57:31 AM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: Constitution Day

he hate me.


12 posted on 01/26/2006 11:58:40 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: WaterDragon

"First, do no harm..."


13 posted on 01/26/2006 11:59:48 AM PST by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: WaterDragon
no surprise here...

...the liberals that run google feel that the USA is evil and that the chi-coms are good

14 posted on 01/26/2006 12:00:48 PM PST by NoClones
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To: Gay State Conservative
When I entered that name,all that came up were articles that criticized it...calling it a cult and things like that.

That was not what came up at teoma.com, an excellent search engine I'll be using instead of google.

15 posted on 01/26/2006 12:02:40 PM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon

Our "global" corporations sell us out the Chinese each and every day. Child and slave labor making the cheap crap that stocks our shelves is far worse than what Yahoo is doing.


16 posted on 01/26/2006 12:03:15 PM PST by Wolfie
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To: Diddle E. Squat

17 posted on 01/26/2006 12:08:51 PM PST by Constitution Day (It's only January, but already I vote the phrase 'culture of death' the most overused of 2006.)
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To: Gay State Conservative
The "porn merchants" you're ready to quash are responsible for a good bit of the technology that is used on the web today (as I mentioned in a post about a week ago about google). If you really want to show those evil porn merchants your distaste then unplug your network cable or phone line and be done with it. Rather, I suppose you'd like to have your cake and eat it too. Use the technology they created with one mouse click and with the next try to get them kicked of the Internet for being a plague on society.

Google did say that the reason that they decided to release a Chinese version of their page, a year after every other competitor did, was because they ultimately believed that giving the Chinese people a little information was better than none. Also, every time that search results are censored, a message is put at the bottom of the page letting the person know that some results were omitted as a result of regional policies.
18 posted on 01/26/2006 12:17:05 PM PST by fmonkey
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To: fmonkey
..use the technology they created with one mouse click...

So porn merchants are the ones who gave us the internet? Did they also give us the photograph,the printing press and motion picture projector?

19 posted on 01/26/2006 12:22:14 PM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: GovernmentShrinker

"We just happen to like our laws better than Chinese laws."

That's your definition of the moral and legal difference between the free people of the United States and the dictatorship in China - we "like our laws better".

Let us pray!!!!


20 posted on 01/26/2006 12:27:46 PM PST by Wuli
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To: Gay State Conservative
If the worldwide Internet had existed in the 1940's, I wonder if Google would have complied with Nazi Germany's requests that anything relating to "Jews", "Concentration Camps", "Auschwitz", or "Final Solution" would be removed from "Google Germany" as well?

Probably - Google would want all those Reich marks!
21 posted on 01/26/2006 12:28:33 PM PST by mobyss
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To: Wuli

Hey, I like our laws better because I believe freedom is important. But Google is not powerful enough to get the Chinese government to change its laws, and getting in there with a Chinese language search engine even with the government restrictions gives the Chinese people more freedom to get information than if Google just refused on principle. And the English language version of Google IS operable in China, and Google doesn't subject that to the Chinese-government directed censorship. Personally I think we'd do better to attack Google for its voluntary censorship in the US, where it refuses to accept sponsored link advertising from perfectly legal gun dealers. Google is doing the minimum imposition on user freedom allowable under Chinese law. The same cannot be said for its operating policies in the US.


22 posted on 01/26/2006 12:41:08 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: WaterDragon
Can you name any other American corporations that do business in China without obeying the laws in China? If not, then why is Google the only corporation being singled out in such a ridiculous way?
23 posted on 01/26/2006 12:47:11 PM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: Gay State Conservative
I'd ask that you reread my previous post a little more carefully. I said that they're responsible for a good bit of the technology on the web. Not the web itself. But you can look all that up if you're interested. When you're listening to Rush online, or watching a clip of Bush's speech from www.foxnews.com, or providing a username and password for this site, etc. etc.

If your objection to porn merchants is that it's disgusting, then that's a matter of opinion. The obvious solution would just be to not look at porn online so you wouldn't be disgusted. Then there's the possibility that you aren't the person you don't want looking at the porn ... maybe a child. If that's the case there are plenty of software products on the market that will allow you (or a child) to surf the Internet while minimizing your risk of running across anything you deem inappropriate (porn, neo-nazi, Islam, or whatever you decide). The only reason that google has allowed an abbreviated version of the search engine is because there are a lot of people that have to, albeit for communist reasons, not see certain things. You could probably move to China or some other police state that bans pornography and be free of it that way. But somehow I don't think that's what you want.
24 posted on 01/26/2006 12:55:26 PM PST by fmonkey
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To: GovernmentShrinker
"getting in there with a Chinese language search engine even with the government restrictions gives the Chinese people more freedom to get information than if Google just refused on principle

Do you actually believe what you write? How can you? You actually believe there are no alternatives to Google, in or out of China? Wrong. There is already mainland Chinese companies competing with Google and their "search results" are not much different than Googles. And, those competitors give as much "freedom to get information", restricted by political considerations, in China as does Google. Google and its search engine does not contribute one single iota of additional "freedom" to the people of China, beyond what others are capable of providing - which is always no more than a privilege and not a right in a dictatorship. Google's position is based on money, pure and simple. They have no love for "freedom" in China.

25 posted on 01/26/2006 12:58:25 PM PST by Wuli
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To: WaterDragon

This is appalling. Lou Dobbs discussed this last night on CNN at length. Google and Yahoo and the rest need a good swift kick in the pants.


26 posted on 01/26/2006 1:08:12 PM PST by hershey
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To: WaterDragon; hedgetrimmer; A. Pole; neutrino; Paul Ross
ARTICLE..."Google will actively assist the Chinese government in barring access to thousands of web sites and search terms, in fact anything on the world wide web the Chinese feel might destablize its authoritarian government. It will also eliminate the blogging and email services it offers elsewhere in the world."

I cant believe this is even an issue of debate on this forum. FR posters should recognize better than most, the importance of COMPLETE, UNFETTERED, UNCENSORED, news and information. After all, FR is the site most responsible for RATHERGATE.

For years, the mainstream press used selective information dispersal, giving people the false illusion of honesty and complete and unbiased news reporting, in order to further a liberal political agenda. And everyone blasted them for doing so.

Now, apparently, it is OK for a company to participate in a similar subtle form of government sponsored mind control / propaganda, provided that there is a practical financial reward for doing so. Give people just a little freedom and honesty, i.e, a Potemkin democracy, this is better than none at all, you see.

BullSht.

27 posted on 01/26/2006 1:44:03 PM PST by Dat Mon (Mr President, pick up the phone and tell DIA to stop the persecution of Lt Col Shaffer)
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To: Right Wing Assault

Exactly. Well done.


28 posted on 01/26/2006 2:05:42 PM PST by StAnDeliver
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To: Dat Mon
BullSht.

Amen.

29 posted on 01/26/2006 2:38:58 PM PST by WaterDragon
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To: Dat Mon

FYI

My Experience of Google's Censorship
By Zhang Lin


In the past, I always thought Google, the biggest search engine in the world, was also the fairest. So no matter what messages I needed to search, I always went first to the UltraReach Company’s UltraReach.Net [Editor’s note: UltrarReach.net is a web server designed to enable the user in mainland China to defeat the P.R.C.’s attempt to censor internet content], and then used Google. But a few months ago, I found there was something strange about Google.
For example, when I searched my own name “Zhang Lin” (the Chinese Communist Party [CCP] blocked my name long ago), to my surprise I found the first entry was a football player named Zhang Linbao. It is impossible for the compiler in Google’s Chinese Department not to have found such an obvious mistake a long time ago. Moreover, Google listed the entries related to “Zhang Lin” at 29,400 altogether. But when I checked the entries from the beginning to the end with patience, I found only 73 pages with 9 entries per page for a total of 657 entries.

When I searched to the last page, I suddenly found there was a link called “repeat the search with the omitted results included.” When I clicked to open it, I suddenly discovered that I was in a new world. The omitted entries included 100 pages, which were even more than the entries really listed. Moreover, nearly all of the omitted content was related to me. Apparently I was considered to be a main “deleted” person (whoever is interested can check this for him or herself). At that moment, the only thing I could think is that Google has been penetrated by an agent of the CCP.

So several months ago, I planed to write an article to expose that Google had been penetrated by an agent of the CCP. What I could not believe was that Google had openly cooperated with the autocratic regime of the CCP and destroyed the freedom of the network.

But recently I saw the series of articles that explained how Google really had started to cooperate with the CCP. At the request of the CCP, Google largely deleted the terms that the CCP intended to block.

This action has violated the basic principles of the network – free access and fair treatment. The Chinese people have been deceived and persecuted and their sources of information have been blockaded, by the CCP for a long time. Google is obviously suspected of helping a tyranny to do evil. Though Google remains the best Chinese search engine, we have the right to require that Google act justly, which is also good for Google’s own healthy development.

A company that compromises with or even flatters an autocratic regime may obtain a few benefits. Eventually, though, actions taken to help a tyranny will be condemned by the public and a cost will be paid. Generally speaking, such a company loses more than it gains. Swiss Banks cooperated with the Nazis, granted loans to make munitions, and swallowed up the Jews’ accounts. But eventually justice was served.

This should be a cautionary tale for Google. Unless Google’s current leaders just want to reap some money and walk away, Google should consider its long-term policy. Please, at the first sight of profits, don’t forget what is right and don’t abandon basic principles.

Editor’s Note: The filtering that Zhang Lin reports in this first person account is of a different kind than what Google News China, a service just begun on September 9, admitted to practicing in a statement the week before last. Google News China does not allow the client to see the “omitted results.” Zhang Lin was able to see those results.


30 posted on 01/26/2006 3:44:21 PM PST by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: Dat Mon
it is OK for a company to participate in a similar subtle form of government sponsored mind control / propaganda, provided that there is a practical financial reward for doing so

This is what is known in globalese as a "public/private partnership.
31 posted on 01/26/2006 3:47:52 PM PST by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: WaterDragon; Dat Mon; thoughtomator; GovernmentShrinker; Constitution Day; The Great RJ; mobyss; ...
Sites Blocked in China - Highlights

The listings below give specific web sites found to be blocked in China. Where available, each page's listing includes its HTML title, its META keywords and description, its Yahoo Directory and Google Directory category classifications, and its Google inbound link count. These details are as retrieved in November 2002. All "blocked on" reports refer to testing in the year 2002.

As detailed in the technical appendix, the overwhelming majority of listed sites were found to be blocked in their entirety. The listing below includes a notation when our testing specifically confirms the blocking of additional portions of a site. Where indicated, blocking of entire sites was confirmed on the basis of DNS redirection. The appendix also provides details as to the method of calculation and presentation of "blocking quotient" data.
32 posted on 01/26/2006 3:59:02 PM PST by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: WoofDog123
"Corporations as a rule are psychopathic in character and this is no exception."

But they generally only get the "evil" label if they are among those thought of as "Republican" corporations/industries...i.e., "the big oil companies".

33 posted on 01/26/2006 4:04:04 PM PST by TheClintons-STILLAnti-American
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To: Gay State Conservative

I just entered "falun gong" into Google and the first page of articles were all positive or positive. Not to defend Google's gutlessness... but I didn't see any pro-Chinese slant in my search.


34 posted on 01/26/2006 9:38:33 PM PST by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: redpoll

I just entered "falun gong" into Google and the first page of articles were all positive or supportive. Not to defend Google's gutlessness... but I didn't see any pro-Chinese slant in my search.

I need to proofread more often. *sheesh*


35 posted on 01/26/2006 9:39:46 PM PST by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: All

I have a question....in what way is what Google is doing in China different from what CNN did in Iraq when its reporters reported only what Saddam wanted them to report? They did that in order to be allowed to continue reporting from Iraq.

CNN fed Saddam Hussein's propaganda to us instead of reporting what was really happening in order to protect Saddam and his state, acting in accordance to Iraqi laws. So, what we have is Google and CNN cooperating with an oppressive government's control of information, control whose sole purpose is to protect the state's control of its people. If it was bad for CNN to do that to Americans, why is it okay for Google to do it to the Chinese?

The U.S. request of Google is for information about CHILD pornographers...which is for the protection of vulnerable citizens, NOT protecting the state AGAINST citizens.


36 posted on 01/27/2006 12:08:20 AM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon
a football player named Zhang Linbao

I think this is Rush Limbaugh's Chinese cousin.

37 posted on 01/27/2006 6:03:56 AM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Dr. Marten

Pinging.


38 posted on 01/30/2006 12:16:23 PM PST by Paul Ross (Hitting bullets with bullets successfully for 35 years!)
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To: Gay State Conservative
"When I entered that name,all that came up were articles that criticized it...calling it a cult and things like that."

The first 3 articles on a Google are pro Falun Gong. The first item is Falun Gong's own site.

39 posted on 01/30/2006 12:24:32 PM PST by spunkets
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To: WaterDragon
So today, Google, all by itself, has a larger market capitalization than the entire U.S. newspaper industry.

Do I detect the faint sound of whining from E&P? After the newspapers go belly up there won't be much need for E&P will there? The next generation won't believe that we once got our news by squashing trees flat and smearing ink on them.

Also, I see no mention in the E&P whine that Yahoo acquiesced to the Chinese objections some time ago. As another poster pointed out, if you want to do business in a country, you obey the laws of that country

Essentially, Google has said that they can do more good (less evil) by being in China and going along with the program than by not being in China at all.

40 posted on 01/30/2006 12:35:58 PM PST by Mogengator
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To: Mogengator
Essentially, Google has said that they can do more good (less evil) by being in China and going along with the program than by not being in China at all.

In their, a'hem, unbiassed opinion...

41 posted on 01/30/2006 12:41:30 PM PST by Paul Ross (Hitting bullets with bullets successfully for 35 years!)
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To: Mogengator

Seems to me a lot of Google shareholders may be supporting its censorship in service to the Chinese Communists for other than 'idealistic' reasons.


42 posted on 01/30/2006 12:44:12 PM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon

For the record, Mr. Chairman, let me state that I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Google shareholder.

It does appear, however, that some people are jealous of Google's success and won't pass up an opportunity to badmouth it.


43 posted on 01/30/2006 1:40:51 PM PST by Mogengator
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To: Mogengator; JoeMcCarthy; Tailgunner Joe
It does appear, however, that some people are jealous of Google's success and won't pass up an opportunity to badmouth it.

A'hem again, oh ye who make allusions to McCarthyism...

Just who are the "some people"?

And in order to be precise, please define your term, "success."

Successful at aiding and abetting Communist thought-control?

44 posted on 01/30/2006 3:29:58 PM PST by Paul Ross (Hitting bullets with bullets successfully for 35 years!)
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To: Paul Ross
Just who are the "some people"?

See above posts.

And in order to be precise, please define your term, "success."

Have you seen their stock price lately? Did you read E&P's whine about them being worth more than all the newspapers put together?

Successful at aiding and abetting Communist thought-control?

That would be in the eye of the beholder.

45 posted on 01/30/2006 3:57:01 PM PST by Mogengator
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To: Mogengator
Have you seen their stock price lately? Did you read E&P's whine about them being worth more than all the newspapers put together?

So what. So is stock price really the be-all and end-all, the essence and definition of "success"?

And then there was my other question:

Successful at aiding and abetting Communist thought-control?

That would be in the eye of the beholder.

Really? Let's say you are in the shoes of the dissidents in China. How would you see it then? Do Google's rationalizations ring a little hollow then...if not outright specious and self-serving?

Maybe you have no way of even appreciating the circumstances of someone who opposes the communist regime...

46 posted on 01/30/2006 4:06:42 PM PST by Paul Ross (Hitting bullets with bullets successfully for 35 years!)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Legality is not morality. The soldiers at Nazi concentration camps were following their laws too.


47 posted on 01/30/2006 4:10:50 PM PST by Truthsearcher
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To: WaterDragon

Which is exactly what Hillary would like to do to the internet.


48 posted on 01/30/2006 4:23:46 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (When I learn everything, I will know nothing.)
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