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What Are Creationists Afraid Of?
The New Individualist ^ | 1/2006 | Ed Hudgins

Posted on 01/26/2006 1:47:10 PM PST by jennyp

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To: PioneerDrive
we all have a conscience whether or not you believe in God, but without the belief in a higher deity you are merely dealing with earthly cause-and-effect consequenses for your actions and your own feelings.

I'd argue precisely the opposite.

First, let's dispense with the OFFICIAL theological beliefs of most Christian denominations in the US regarding salvation through faith rather than good works and whatnot; the reality at a gut level of most rank-and-file believers in this country regardless of the "official" theology of their particular denomination is a belief that they will be rewarded for doing good works by reaching heaven and punished by bad deeds with hell, which are cause-and-effect consequences, albeit entirely unprovable post-death ones.

If anything I'd argue an atheist or agnostic who is a deeply moral and ethical person in his actions is more impressive than a religious person who is equally deeply moral and ethical person in their actions but is doing so because they're expecting a post-death reward or avoiding a post-death punishment.

Of course this will be dodged by people living in a fantasyland, to make themselves comfortable, that atheists and agnostics are incapable of being moral and ethical people.

121 posted on 01/26/2006 2:50:44 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: conservativebabe

"I just thought that some things in the Bible are stories, parables, etc. Thus, the world being created in seven days being not literal. The 10 Commandments are literal in their meaning. "

Verily I say unto you conservativebabe that thou are wise.

Some folks,however, think the world is but 6,000 years old.

parsy, who is a dinosaur.


122 posted on 01/26/2006 2:51:05 PM PST by parsifal ("Knock and ye shall receive!" (The Bible, somewhere.))
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To: DallasMike
I won't call hard-core evolutionists a group of liars even though schoolchildren are still treated to Haeckel's drawing of embryos

Citation of this still happening with context of their presentation.

and fairy-tale stories of moths pinned to British trees.

Explaination of what the "fairy-tale story" involved is please.
123 posted on 01/26/2006 2:51:49 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: ArizonaRed

But you just don't buy that God actually created human beings, right? You believe in God but not the Bible? How do you decide what you are going to believe?


124 posted on 01/26/2006 2:53:44 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: jla

Some people have an all or none view of things. Either the bible is the infallible word of god or it ain't.

As it says in Hezikiah 4:20:

"Throweth not out the mustard seed in the rinse."

parsy, the inspired.


125 posted on 01/26/2006 2:54:01 PM PST by parsifal ("Knock and ye shall receive!" (The Bible, somewhere.))
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
And if you claim that that is what cosmology, abiogenesis, and evolution say you are being dishonest with YOUR self.

OK, you're partly right here. I'm blending the Big Bang stuff into it, since those two theories are such frequent partners.

Evolution does, however, ask true believers to take things on faith until the future day arrives which will finally prove it true. Evolutionists keep hoping all those missing "in between" fossils will show up eventually. ;-)

126 posted on 01/26/2006 2:54:04 PM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: parsifal
Now if you believe Noah took two elephants aboard the yacht, you advise suffering. If however, you believe that dinosaurs bones are really, really old, you advise Bob to simply have his affair.

1. I believe that dinosaur bones are truly as ancient as advertised but that doesn't justify Bob's affair. That's morality at the level of Bill Clinton.

2. Ancient flood stories seem to be part of pretty much every culture in the Middle East and Mediterranean area. That's probably a clue that something happened. If those two areas flooded and all the elephants were in Africa or India, then Noah didn't need them on the ark.


127 posted on 01/26/2006 2:54:52 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: curiosity
They're just not being logically consistant, as they have faith in a moral code despite there being no more scientific evidence for such a code

Moral codes are arbitrary things. I see nothing logically inconsistent with me not committing mass murder.
128 posted on 01/26/2006 2:54:53 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio

"The theory of evolution has nothing to do with "something or everything" appearing out of nothing."

It proposes that animals and plants have their origin in preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations.

What is the origin of those preexisting types? That's what we are getting at! If they always were, then, you propose that all things generated from either something or nothing. I want to know, how you can prove one or the other? And, the answer, of course, is you can't. Which leaves you unable to disqualify my "opinion" or theory (the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another) that it must be possible that the original thing from which others evolved could have been created to have existed in the first place. You can't prove the generation therefore you cannot prove the final outcome.


129 posted on 01/26/2006 2:54:57 PM PST by jw777
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To: TChris
As the second law of thermodynamics declares, when left to themselves, things deteriorate.

The second law of thermodynamics ACTUALLY declares "No process is possible in which the sole result is the transfer of energy from a cooler to a hotter body."

You might want to actually read about the REAL Second Law of Thermodynamics sometime, rather than the fictional, and rather hilarious, Second Law of Thermodynamics that has been fabricated by a comical assortment of rather dim-witted creationist writers.

130 posted on 01/26/2006 2:55:24 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Dimensio
If that isn't lying, what is it?

Anti-Evo "misspeaking"?

;-)

131 posted on 01/26/2006 2:55:37 PM PST by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his ninth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

You have the public schools, MSM, Colleges, both public and private and an overwhelming world stage. You have succesfully had your theory published in almost every single educational text dealing with history. I think you have had plenty of time and opportunity to present a one sided set.


132 posted on 01/26/2006 2:56:37 PM PST by jw777
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To: Dimensio
Given that evolution says absolutely nothing whatsoever about whether or not "there really is a God", I don't see how this statement is relevant. Even if it were relevant, it would be false, as the conclusion would be dependent on the nature of the "God" that "really" exists.

It is relevant because the God which is the target of evolution is the Creator. If there was no creation, there is no Creator.

133 posted on 01/26/2006 2:57:04 PM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: Dimensio
What does "intelligent design" theory predict? How can it be tested? What hypothetical observation would falsify it?

What does evolution predict? What will we look like in 10,000 years? How do you test it?

Evolution Theory is not science.

134 posted on 01/26/2006 2:57:23 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: mlc9852
Flight comes at an extremely high cost, which has to be paid for out of other capabilities that the species could have had. Numerous adaptions are required. Ultra-light skeleton (if you ever hold a large bird of prey on your arm you will be astounded at how little it weighs). Massive musculature and metabolic capacity for the purposes of flight. Creatures of our size couldn't conceivably evolve flight. The power requirements and stress loads are way too great.

Its no coincidence that oceanic islands often have flightless bird species living on them. These arrived there originally as a single normal flying bird pregnant female (perhaps in a storm), millions of years ago, and over time the descendants lost the ability to fly because in the ecological niche they find themselves flight isn't that big an advantage. Usually such islands won't have predators, and the newly arrived bird finds itself at the top of the food chain. The ability to fly is no longer important and the high cost of maintaining it is greater than the reproductive benefit. Through the generations the ability is lost as less good fliers that are born outbreed better flier siblings because the less good fliers are better adapted to the island environment in other ways. That is why oceanic islands often have a unique species of flightless bird, and of course no two such islands share the same species, because the flightlessness evolved after the first pregnant female flew there.

135 posted on 01/26/2006 2:57:45 PM PST by Thatcherite (More abrasive blackguard than SeaLion or ModernMan)
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To: TChris
" Evolution does, however, ask true believers to take things on faith until the future day arrives which will finally prove it true."

No, it does no such thing. It provides evidence that's supports it's claims. Theories are not *proved* at any time in the future; they accumulate evidence.

" Evolutionists keep hoping all those missing "in between" fossils will show up eventually. ;-)"

There are plenty of transitionals, a number of species to species transitionals. Scientists have observed speciation. And ERV's are essentially genetic fossils that have clinched the case for common descent. Creationists are going to be very disappointed in the next one hundred years. :)
136 posted on 01/26/2006 2:57:57 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: jw777

Evolution is an explanation of the origin of species and their changes over time.

It has nothing to do with the explanation of the origin of life, or of matter, or of the universe.

You can believe life spontaneously arose out of organic chemicals, that the Christian God created the first life, that Aliens from the planet Xenu brought the first life to earth, or that a 5,000 headed Giraffe-God created the universe and also the first life, and be a full-blooded card-carrying Darwinian evolutionist.

(Note: there are no actual cards we get issued :-)


137 posted on 01/26/2006 2:58:16 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: parsifal
Some people have an all or none view of things. Either the bible is the infallible word of God or it ain't.

It is. Now kindly explain your slippery slope/adultery conundrum.

jla, the inquisitive

138 posted on 01/26/2006 2:58:23 PM PST by jla
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To: curiosity
They're just not being logically consistant, as they have faith in a moral code despite there being no more scientific evidence for such a code than there is scientific evidence for God.

The existence of God is neither necessary nor sufficient for a moral code. Or is the only reason you haven't gone on a killing spree because God says not to?

139 posted on 01/26/2006 2:58:35 PM PST by ThinkDifferent (Chloe rocks)
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To: DallasMike

Then you are wise and unafraid. You can separate out the stuff in the bible with reason. Kudos. As it says somewhere in there, "Timothy was not afraid to work" or something like that.

parsy, who likes the quiet in the Valley of the Shadow.


140 posted on 01/26/2006 2:58:45 PM PST by parsifal ("Knock and ye shall receive!" (The Bible, somewhere.))
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