What Are Creationists Afraid Of?

The New Individualist ^ | 1/2006 | Ed Hudgins

[furball4paws]

You'd better talk to Pat. The new ones are quite spiffy, with an embedded microchip and all.

[mlc9852]

We have quite a few flightless birds that lives in all sorts of places. Ever think maybe there always have been flightless birds? And there are birds that can fly but aren't very good at it. I wonder why?

[Thatcherite]

Evolutionists keep hoping all those missing "in between" fossils will show up eventually. ;-)

They showed up long ago. But some people like to hide under the blankets and pretend that they don't exist.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Uh, that's a plane. And it doesn't have feathers. But thanks anyway.

Flying squirrels don't have feathers, yet they fly.

How is this possible?

[Dimensio]

What does evolution predict?

It predicts that precambrian rabbit fossils will never be found. It predicts that if identical ERV insertions are found in humans and gorillas, it will also be found in chimpanzees. If identical ERV insertions are found in chimpanzees and orangutangs, it will also be found in humans and gorillas.

What will we look like in 10,000 years?

Without knowing what mutations will occur and what environmental selective pressures will exist over the next 10,000 years, it is impossible to make such a prediction.

How do you test it?

Dig for fossils, look at DNA.

Evolution Theory is not science.

Yes it is.

[TChris]

I believe God set up a universe, where chaos, time, and chance allowed complexity to occur. I suspect there are some ID-generated nudges in evolution, here and there, by God or some other intelligence, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. It's in the creation of the universe as a place capable of generating and supporting intelligence that I see God's hand, more than in the evolution of specifically human intelligence.

I believe you are partly correct. Those powers are His tools. However, there had to be more than "nudges" to set things up in order to explain where we currently are.

Statisticians have calculated the necessary probabilities for life to have evolved to this point, and they don't fit anywhere near the timeframes accepted as the age of the universe. For the diversity and complexity of life which we can readily observe to have evolved in even billions of years is mathematically impossible.

[Strategerist]

As always, if there are two fossils or a fossil and a currently living life form and evolutionists theorize that due to some similarities the more recent life form evolved from the older one, the creationists SCREAM bloody murder about the absence of a transitional form.

Then when that transitional fossil is found, that's a bit like the oldest fossil and a bit like the newer fossil or the current animal, they then scream bloody murder about the TWO "missing links" that are now found between the oldest fossil and the middle fossil and the middle fossil and the newest fossil.

Then if THOSE two fossils are found, there are now FOUR "missing links" to the creationist :-)

[parsifal]

Some people are afraid that if they admit the bible is not infallible, in any degree, it renders the book as less than the absolute word of god. If the bible is not god's holy word, then how do we mere people know where to draw the line.

If the Noah story isn't true, then how do we know the stone tablets on Mount Sinai story also isn't true.

parsy, who likes graven images.

[narby]

What does evolution predict?

It predicts that the fossil record will appear to be changed over time. With "modern" creatures never found below "old" creatures.

If creationists could find a bona fide example where that fact does not hold true, then evolution would be swept aside. Yet out of millions of fossils found, over a 150 year time scale, no creationist has done so, despite several very well funded efforts.

Now, what does "intelligent design" predict? How can it be tested? What observations would falsify it in a manner I've described for evolution above?

[ThinkDifferent]

They showed up long ago. But some people like to hide under the blankets and pretend that they don't exist.

Well, every intermediate fossil just creates two more gaps...

[jw777]

in the context of this discussion it is presented to me that Evolution excludes the existence of God. I do not dispute that species have evolved. Only that the origination of the matter or whatever, COULD have been created by God or an Intelligent design.

I simply argue to have both matters presented and allow the reader to decide.

[jwalsh07]

Three questions for you Jebby.

1. What is the purpose of markets?

2. What is the purpose of evolution?

3. Who or what directs each of those?

[Coyoteman]

That's the interpretation of some, not all. I'm still waiting for them to find the famous "ape-like creature".

Mlc, meet Mrs. Ples. Mrs. Ples, meet mlc.

---

Fossil: Sts 5 Site: Sterkfontein Cave South Africa (1)

Discovered By: R. Broom & J. Robinson 1947 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 2.5 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, floral & faunal data (1, 4)

Species Name: Australopithecus africanus (1, 2)

Gender: Male (based on CAT scan of wisdom teeth roots) (1, 30) Female (original interpretation) (4)

Cranial Capacity: 485 cc (2, 4)

Information: No tools found in same layer (4)

Interpretation: Erect posture (based on forward facing foramen magnum) (8)

Nickname: Mrs. Ples (1)

See original source for notes:
http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=24

[TChris]

There are plenty of transitionals, a number of species to species transitionals. Scientists have observed speciation. And ERV's are essentially genetic fossils that have clinched the case for common descent. Creationists are going to be very disappointed in the next one hundred years. :)

They have been saying so for the past one hundred years. :-)

Where are today's transitionals? The environment is rich with opportunity for transitional species, but they can't be found. By definition, such transitionals would be better suited to their environments than previous species, so they should have the advantage and abound in nature.

[Jessarah]

"...over time the descendants lost the ability to fly because in the ecological niche they find themselves flight isn't that big an advantage."

I get lost at this point. How does a bird gradually loose its ability to do something like that? If humans began using wheelchairs all the time, would they gradually be born without the ability to walk? I guess I'm asking what is it inside of them that changes?
I know I didn't form this question very well, so forgive me if you can't figure out what I'm saying :-)

[Dimensio]

It proposes that animals and plants have their origin in preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations.

That's part of it. There's also the environmental selection pressure. That's also extremely important to shaping which organisms end up existing.

That has nothing to do with things appearing out of nothing, though.

What is the origin of those preexisting types?

Since the process that caused imperfect replicators to exist in the first place had to require, in at least one step, a time when no imperfect replicators existed at all, that origin is outside of the explanatory scope of the theory of evolution. That is to say that the mechanism that caused the first life forms to exist has no bearing on the mechanism by which those imperfect replicators branched off into diverse species, or, in clearer terms, evolution doesn't depend on life originating from any specific method.

You have yet to demonstrate that evolution makes any claims regarding "something or everything" appearing out of nothing.

[mlc9852]

"Have you ever wondered how a flying squirrel flies, it doesn't have wings, it's not a bird, so how can it fly? Well, the truth is, it doesn't fly, it glides, sort of like an eagle except it never has to flap any wings. There are blanket-like membranes of skin between its wrists and hindlegs that give it the ability to glide far distances. The flying squirrels have dense, and soft fur. It's brown on their backs and white underneath. They have long, flattened tails that are used to guide their glides. They have large eyes, or "bug eyes", I like to call them. Flying squirrels are nocturnal rodents, which means they feed at night on fruits, nuts, buds, and insects. They nest in hollow trees, deserted buildings, and birdhouses. These gregarious mammals seldom descend to the ground."

http://worldkids.net/critters/mammals/squirrel.htm

So you can see they don't actually fly. But nice try.

[ThinkDifferent]

I believe you are partly correct. Those powers are His tools. However, there had to be more than "nudges" to set things up in order to explain where we currently are.

So God couldn't have set up the initial conditions and physical laws of the universe in such a way that life would naturally arise and evolve? I thought he was supposed to be omnipotent.

[jwalsh07]

Or is the only reason you haven't gone on a killing spree because God says not to?

The fact that he hasn't gone on a killing spree is neither here nor there. The question is if he did go on a killing spree for whatever reason, why is that wrong if his prime directive is to do what pleases him and killing pleases him?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" Statisticians have calculated the necessary probabilities for life to have evolved to this point, and they don't fit anywhere near the timeframes accepted as the age of the universe."

And they had to pull the *calculations* out of their posteriors because it isn't POSSIBLE to make such calculations without knowing what the processes they claim to represent are.