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Louisiana In Limbo
New York Times ^ | January 30, 2006 | Editorial

Posted on 01/30/2006 12:38:06 PM PST by UpTurn

New Orleans waits. While some heroic efforts at rebuilding are taking place, hundreds of thousands of residents have put their lives on hold until they know what the government's next steps will be, leaving the shells of their houses as placeholders. But the Bush administration has now rejected the most broadly supported plan for rebuilding communities while offering nothing to take its place.

It has been five months since Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast and for many the norm is still the claustrophobic new reality of tiny trailers and multiple families crammed into single apartments. Louisiana is trying. You can hear jackhammers pounding and buzz saws whirring on Canal Street in New Orleans. Dedicated workers endure a grinding daily commute from points north, like Baton Rouge, as they try to make the city and the region whole again. But the mission is far from complete and the challenge is beyond the scope of a broken city and a poor state.

New Orleans's crisis has little relation to anything the nation has faced in modern memory, and traditional solutions will simply not help. Homeowners — many very poor people whose houses had been in their families for generations — had varying degrees of insurance before the disaster. When entire neighborhoods are devastated, their mildewed furniture and drywall piled on the roadsides, it's impossible to tell the people who are well insured to rebuild and hope that the houses all around them will somehow be reclaimed somewhere down the line.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: baker; katrina; louisiana; neworleans; rebuilding; rita
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It's a complex problem, and not all the players are leaning on the wheel(s) and pushing in the same direction. Yet. But they will.
1 posted on 01/30/2006 12:38:09 PM PST by UpTurn
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To: UpTurn
Louisiana In Limbo

..sorta like Blanko's brain

2 posted on 01/30/2006 12:39:38 PM PST by Doogle (USAF...8thAF...4077th TFW...408th MMS...Ubon Thailand..."69"..Night Line Delivery,AMMO)
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To: UpTurn

I cannot resist:

How low can you go?


3 posted on 01/30/2006 12:40:00 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: UpTurn
New Orleans's crisis has little relation to anything the nation has faced in modern memory, and traditional solutions will simply not help. Homeowners — many very poor people whose houses had been in their families for generations — had varying degrees of insurance before the disaster.

Translation - some were prepared and some were not. But let's set up a system to where those who bought insurance come out no better than those who didn't, just to make sure that no one bothers buying flood insurance in the future.

4 posted on 01/30/2006 12:40:33 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: UpTurn

Limbo or Gumbo?


5 posted on 01/30/2006 12:40:37 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: MineralMan

We expext some very extraordinary things from some very ordinary politicians.


6 posted on 01/30/2006 12:41:58 PM PST by keving
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To: UpTurn

Between Sacramento and San Francisco, out in the delta they are starting 5000 new homes - 6 ft UNDER sea level.


7 posted on 01/30/2006 12:42:11 PM PST by SF Republican
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To: Doogle
Limbo Gumbo.

1 Overwhelmed Governor
1 Incompent Mayor
1 Lyin' Parish Commissioner
1 Corrupt Levee Commission
1 City below sea level
A dollop of Welfare State mentality
Decades of political corruption
1 inevitable hurricane

Assemble all dry ingredients. Add hurricane and allow hurricane to mix all other ingredients well. Serve with a side of federal incompetence.

8 posted on 01/30/2006 12:43:56 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: UpTurn

"..hundreds of thousands of residents have put their lives on hold until they know what the government's next steps will be."

Would these be the same people who look to gvt for the solutions to all their wants and needs? If so, what does putting such a life "on hold" really mean? Was it getting ready to go somewhere otherwise?


9 posted on 01/30/2006 12:47:49 PM PST by Pessimist
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To: keving

I'm old. My references are old. It was a joked about the "Limbo" dance that was a craze back in the early 60's. It is apropos of nothing...just an aside.


10 posted on 01/30/2006 12:48:50 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: UpTurn
You can hear jackhammers pounding and buzz saws whirring on Canal Street in New Orleans. Dedicated workers endure a grinding daily commute from points north, like Baton Rouge, as they try to make the city and the region whole again.

And you can bet they are being paid to do it. In Mississippi, while we wait to see if any of our tax dollars will filter back down to us, we are busily rebuilding our own places. I have become a carpenter, plumber, floor tiler, and sheetrocker - I hate doing mudding!

11 posted on 01/30/2006 12:48:53 PM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: keving
As in "How low can you go":


12 posted on 01/30/2006 12:51:03 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: UpTurn
Hurricanes (three of four) that hit Florida in 2004 ...

Charley, August 13th, 2004 ... Category 4 ... hit at 145+ mph

Frances, September 4th, 2004 ... Category 2 ... hit at 105 mph

Jeanne, September 26, 2004 ... Category 3 ... hit at 120+ mph


What are we, chopped liver?

Three in 44 days! Bet there was some chocolate that got hit too. Don't remember the NYSlimes crying tears for us.

Oh ... I forgot. Florida has a real live Republican government. One that works for the people.





13 posted on 01/30/2006 12:51:54 PM PST by G.Mason ("I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone" -- Bill Cosby)
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To: G.Mason

You left out Ivan.


14 posted on 01/30/2006 12:52:51 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: UpTurn

"hundreds of thousands of residents have put their lives on hold until they know what the government's next steps will be"

Pathetic. I am reminded of Little House on the Prarie. I wonder how long they would have waited for the governments next steps...


15 posted on 01/30/2006 12:54:29 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: bayourant

I hate to get back involved in this but I am getting really tired of these threads turning into a Louisiana bashing session. It gets extremely hurtful when I hear comments about who cares about those folks down there. The msm shockling does not report everything down here. There is good and bad. As for hey its under sea level these are the facts. Coastal erosion!!!! Rita showed how bad this was along the entire coast. Now we have been screaming for years for help on this issue as we spent countless billions on the big dig in Boston. If freepers here after lookiing at the map of Louisiana find that they have no love of their country below I-10 in LOuisiana and dont care if it all becomes the gulf please lets us know so we can vote in the proper ways to save ourselves. Also to the folks in Mississippi may I humbly suggest that we are in this all together. As two small Southern States I think that perhaps sticking together ,as we have to compete against another "poor college girl has disappeared" story every few weeks. as we try to show the nation our problems down here. Its not all roses in nola either.


16 posted on 01/30/2006 1:01:26 PM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant
Now we have been screaming for years for help on this issue as we spent countless billions on the big dig in Boston.

Hmmm. Big Dig. Massive federal monies spent. Went waay over budget.

Lesson - be more careful throwing money at problems.

Apply lesson to Louisiana - right off the bat political leaders asked for $250 billion. Big Dig Spidey Sense tingles like hemorrhoid day after eating Mexican platter.

Now they want money to buy properties for redevelopment. What happens if no one buys properties? Taxpayer stuck with lots of swampland.

Why don't we figure out how to pay for this once and do it right?

17 posted on 01/30/2006 1:08:53 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: dirtboy

Ia agree with you that money should be wisely spent. I am not for just pouring money in. However Coastal erosion is a major problem that take federal assistance to deal with. There is so much at stake here for the Nation and for it resources it boggles my mind that it doesnt get the proper attention.


18 posted on 01/30/2006 1:11:48 PM PST by bayourant
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To: dirtboy

We should be careful before rebuilding. I don't think people should be allowed to rebuild in low areas that are likely to flood so easily. Better to buy them up (probably cheaper) and have some nice parkland.

The race of the individual should not matter. Sound policies should work for the best policies for all.


19 posted on 01/30/2006 1:19:19 PM PST by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: bayourant
However Coastal erosion is a major problem that take federal assistance to deal with. There is so much at stake here for the Nation and for it resources it boggles my mind that it doesnt get the proper attention.

Here is the problem as I see it.

Federal programs are what created the coastal erosion in the first place. The Mississippi no longer floods and spreads sediments to build up the land - because of levees. Meanwhile, the entire region is slowly subsiding.

So on one hand we have a need to allow flooding for sediment deposition, and on the other hand we have folks clamorming that we need Cat 5 levees around NOLA.

So we have opposing goals here.

Personally, I'm more inclined to agree with you - it is much more important to look at the long-term health of the entire Louisana coast than to protect the parts of NOLA that were well below sea level. The state has to make some really hard choices, instead of just wanting everything the way it was. And I don't see the political leaders doing the former - they instead want the latter, because that is what got them elected in the first place.

20 posted on 01/30/2006 1:21:48 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia
and have some nice parkland.

In the case of most of NOLA, it would be a new lake.

21 posted on 01/30/2006 1:22:27 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: UpTurn

Pigeons coming home to roost on the liberal plantation.


22 posted on 01/30/2006 1:25:39 PM PST by wordsofearnest (Bring Back Torre)
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To: dirtboy

Ta-dah


23 posted on 01/30/2006 1:27:07 PM PST by Doogle (USAF...8thAF...4077th TFW...408th MMS...Ubon Thailand..."69"..Night Line Delivery,AMMO)
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To: UpTurn


I say pave the whole thing over and be done with it once and for all.


24 posted on 01/30/2006 1:31:27 PM PST by rockabyebaby (I'm not afraid to say out loud what the rest of you are afraid to admit.)
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To: bayourant

Massachusets paid for the big dig. LA should pay for NOLA.

NOLA is not underwater due to erosion. It is underwater because it was built that way.

Don't pick my pocket for NOLA idiocy.


25 posted on 01/30/2006 2:05:13 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: rockabyebaby; HoHoeHeaux

Salt water is hard on asphalt. :o)

Thanks for your comment, DirtBoy. You hit the nail on the head.

I knew there'd be the usual Louisiana bashing, but tough. I'm not going to let this issue fade away. The magnitude of the damage is indescribable. There is a leadership problem, but it will work out. Louisiana is NOT just the sorry pictures shown of the lower 9th ward, or the panicked crowd at the Superdome.

We get along down here in spite of the above. Let me share a story... from this weekend. I attended a funeral of a dear friend who died of cancer. The graveyard was a long way off--back at the old family homestead--and the procession traveled about 12 miles on a 4-lane highway. EVERY vehicle we met stopped dead in the road & turned their lights on out of respect. EVERY vehicle--well over 200. 18 wheelers, people just driving north on the highway who didn't even live there. They don't know the race of the person in the hearst... who it was, or the socio-economic status... just showed respect all the same.

We do a pretty good job of taking care of each other down here. That's why get along in spite of the other issues.

But these two hurricanes are overwhelming.

Again, thanks for the interest.


26 posted on 01/30/2006 2:09:25 PM PST by UpTurn (I like country music http://www.thunder-creek.com)
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To: MonroeDNA

Mass taxpayers paid the big dig bill? Did you read that in the Boston Globe?


27 posted on 01/30/2006 2:11:11 PM PST by Jacquerie (Democrats soil institutions)
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To: MonroeDNA
NOLA is not underwater due to erosion. It is underwater because it was built that way.

That is not correct.

Before NOLA and the levees were built, periodic flooding spread sediments over the land and both built up the elevation of the land and pushed land further out into the Gulf.

NOLA sits on deltaic deposits thousands of feet thick. These are still slowly consolidating, which causes the land level to sink. This had been more-than offset by the sedimentation.

Once NOLA was leveed off and levees build along the Mississippi to keep it in-channel, sediments ceased to be deposited. Which has caused the natural subsidence to take over, accelerated by the removal of water and oil and gas.

However, that in turn raises a dichotomy - you have to literally flood the village to save it. The only way to staunch subsidence is to allow natural or man-made flooding to deposit sediments. So I'm not sure how most of NOLA can be saved - even if the levees were raised, they would slowly sink and eventually need to be raised again. And again. And again.

At some point, nature needs to be allowed to take over. There is no point, IMO, rebuilding the sections of the town that were abject slums and below sea level.

And that doesn't even address the likely prospect of the Mississippi River changing course over the next few decades.

28 posted on 01/30/2006 2:11:19 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: MonroeDNA
Massachusets paid for the big dig.

Come on. You don't expect us to swallow that one, do you. Make up a story a little more believable than that, if you are going to write fiction.

29 posted on 01/30/2006 2:20:04 PM PST by PAR35
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To: trebb

Believe me that is going on here too. It's just not being reported on. Insurance companies are really screwing with people.


30 posted on 01/30/2006 2:32:16 PM PST by CajunConservative (Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Jindal.)
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To: dirtboy
I saw an article by an engineer where he suggested that some of the houses have pontoons for foundations to keep the house from being flooded.

I would suggest raising the level of the land inside of New Orleans by punching pipes through the Mississippi Levees and flooding the city to sea level after Mardi Gras for a month.
The other thing that must be done is allow the river to disperse sediment by removing the levees that do not protect highly built up areas.
31 posted on 01/30/2006 2:50:02 PM PST by Fraxinus (Warning: Opinion may be less useful than it appears)
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To: dirtboy
I had said "three of four".

Had I mentioned Ivan, all hell would have broke out, as it looped all over the place and avioded the poor communities. ;)





32 posted on 01/30/2006 3:21:30 PM PST by G.Mason ("I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone" -- Bill Cosby)
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To: bayourant
Personally, I cannot relate to the Nanny State mentality. People, towns, counties and state need to take / assume RESPONSIBILITY for where they live and the actions of their citizens / residents. Where we live, we had tremendous erosion issues last year. We dealt with it in our own personal way. Chain saws, large equipment to local contractors. WE DEALT WITH THE AFTERMATH.

We did not dial 1-800-UNCLE-SAM.

What the hell is Nagin, Blanco, and the rest of the lazy dopey people doing in LA?

Nomex and Kevlar on.

33 posted on 01/30/2006 3:33:32 PM PST by Cobra64
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To: dirtboy

LOL!


34 posted on 01/30/2006 4:03:45 PM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: bayourant

New Orleans wants everything rebuilt just like it was in the low down swamp. That is stupid; it is going to get flooded again. New Orleans is not going to be just like it was...it is going to be smaller because that is what the land supports today.

The State has to face the music and build housing for the flooded out poor elsewhere in the State. Property owners in the swamp should take their money and run with it to put a down payment on a house not located in a swamp. They ought to all get moving.

But they are stuck because they want to rebuild in the swamp and they can't rebild in swamp until the levee is strong enough to protect from a BIG hurricane and they can't build a levee that strong and it's Bush's fault and if we had enough money we would overcome the hurricanes but we can't overcome hurricanes until we build a levee strong enough to hold against a Big hurricane and we can rebuild in the swamp until we have a strong enough levee but Bush won't give us the money to rebuild...

Send out old stubble face to tv cameras "Bush killed my mama. I'm comin mama..."


35 posted on 01/30/2006 4:16:43 PM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: Cobra64

I do know that they are busy in the recovery here where Rita slammed us. The hold up in NOLA is probably due to the flood and waiting on the new elevation requirements being mapped out. They have to wait for FEMA and the remapping in order to get insurance coverage. At least that is one thing I have read.


36 posted on 01/30/2006 5:25:01 PM PST by CajunConservative (Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Jindal.)
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To: dirtboy

I thought you might have been honest when you said to me in another recent thread that you cared about us here in Louisiana. Your continued insults and the fact that you can't seem to let go of that 250 billion dollar request tells me you are a liar. Keep posting, we know the truth. The truth is your are a first class jerk.


37 posted on 01/30/2006 5:33:31 PM PST by Uncle Sham
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To: MineralMan

38 posted on 01/30/2006 5:37:24 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever
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To: Uncle Sham

Sorry, but it wasn't me that made that request for $250 billion. It was your politicians. Deal with it.


39 posted on 01/30/2006 6:48:00 PM PST by dirtboy (My new years resolution is to quit using taglines...)
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To: CajunConservative
They have to wait for FEMA and the remapping in order to get insurance coverage. At least that is one thing I have read.

Well, what did these people do 160 years ago for their flood insurance and planning on living below sea level?

We, our Family, do not expect the Nanny State to pay for poor decision-making and lack of planning as to where we live.

We have lived in PA, CO, and currently in NC. We made those choices. Knowing and understanding our decision making process.

40 posted on 01/30/2006 7:13:13 PM PST by Cobra64
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To: CajunConservative

I have no doubt that you good folks in LA are also rebuilding a lot and hoping for some way to pay for it. Your politicians and the many missteps and ridiculous demands by Blanco and Naggin have hurt your image unfairly.<p.God Bless


41 posted on 01/31/2006 4:15:19 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: Cobra64
Well, what did these people do 160 years ago for their flood insurance and planning on living below sea level?

Back then you could build your home for next to nothing and there were no mortgages to deal with for 40 years. Times HAVE changed.

We, our Family, do not expect the Nanny State to pay for poor decision-making and lack of planning as to where we live.

Oh the nanny state is involved in where you live even if you don't think so and it's called zoning. Build something that is not within the codes and see how fast you have to stop, and either tear down or follow the codes in order to proceed.

42 posted on 01/31/2006 5:12:59 AM PST by CajunConservative (Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Jindal.)
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To: trebb
I have no doubt that you good folks in LA are also rebuilding a lot and hoping for some way to pay for it. Your politicians and the many missteps and ridiculous demands by Blanco and Naggin have hurt your image unfairly.

The difference is that a major city was wiped out and normally storms just devastate less populated areas. What do you think it would be like if Rita had slammed Houston? It was by the grace of God for the whole country that Rita turned because we all would be in a world of hurt if Houston got the direct hit on top of NOLA.

43 posted on 01/31/2006 5:16:58 AM PST by CajunConservative (Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Jindal.)
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To: UpTurn

North Dakota News

This text is from a county emergency manager out in the western part of North Dakota state after the recent snow storm.

WEATHER BULLETIN

Up here in the Northern Plains we just recovered from a Historic event --- may I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions" --- with a historic blizzard of up to 44" inches of snow and winds to 90 MPH that broke trees in half, knocked down utility poles, stranded hundreds of motorists in lethal snow banks, closed ALL roads, isolated scores of communities and cut power to 10's of thousands.

FYI:

· George Bush did not come....

· FEMA did nothing....

· No one howled for the government...

· No one blamed the government

· No one even uttered an expletive on TV...

· Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton did not visit

· Our Mayors did not blame Bush or anyone else

· Our Governor did not blame Bush or anyone else either

· CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX, or NBC did not visit - or report on this category 5 snow storm

· Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards.....

· No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House....

· No one looted....

· Nobody - I mean Nobody demanded the government do something

· Nobody expected the government to do anything either

· No Larry King, No Bill O'Rielly, No Oprah, No Chris Mathews and No Geraldo Rivera

· No Shaun Penn, No Barbara Striesand, No Hollywood types to be found

And

· Nope, we just melted the snow for water

· Sent out caravans of SUV's to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars

· The truck drivers pulled people out of snow banks and didn't ask for a penny

· Local restaurants made food and the police and fire departments delivered it to the snow bound families

· Families took in the stranded people - total strangers

· We fired up wood stoves

· Broke out coal oil lanterns or coleman lanterns

· We put on an extra layers of clothes because up here it is "Work or Die"

· We did not wait for some affirmative action government to get us out of a mess created by being immobilized by a welfare program that trades votes for 'sittin at home' checks.

· Even though a Category "5" blizzard of this scale has never fallen this early...we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.

"In my many travels, I have noticed that once one gets north of about 48 degrees North Latitude, 90% of most of the world's social problems evaporate."


44 posted on 01/31/2006 12:16:37 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: MonroeDNA

There were more people in the convention center and Super Dome than in most of the 10 largest "cities" in North Dakota. The entire state population of ND is half of what the Greater New Orleans metro area is. Nobody lives in ND because of the blizzards and desolateness.


45 posted on 01/31/2006 12:23:22 PM PST by CajunConservative (Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Jindal.)
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To: CajunConservative

What's your point?


46 posted on 01/31/2006 12:39:03 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: CajunConservative

So a large poplation is an excuse to not rely on yourself, or help your neighbor, or to not loot?

It's the CULTURE.

I wonder what percentage of NOLA residents were on welfare prior to the hurricane. Compare it to the percentage of residents in ND on welfare.

It explains everything.

Culture of dependancy, and entitlement.


47 posted on 01/31/2006 12:41:59 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: MonroeDNA

This email keeps getting posted on these threads and my point is that there were simply more people in a very small, poorly ventilated area with very little food, water, and bathroom facilities. You put all of that together and it's not going to be pretty. Think about it, it was 100 degrees, more people in close proximity than most of the largest towns in ND without showers, bathrooms and etc.


http://www.snopes.com/katrina/soapbox/dakota.asp

North Dakota's letter to the POTUS asking for FEMA assistance.

http://www.governor.state.nd.us/media/news-releases/2005/11/docs/051101.pdf


48 posted on 01/31/2006 1:01:16 PM PST by CajunConservative (Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Jindal.)
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To: MonroeDNA

It's not an excuse but just the sheer fact that there are more people usually means that a greater number of people will be getting services, especially in the inner city. We are really discussing the difference between urban and rural. Country/rural folks know that they have to rely on themselves simply because it takes a long time to get help.

You hear nothing negative about the Hurricane Rita people, who are most probably as poor as some of the NOLA folks. However, they are resourceful because they have to be all the time. They live in the swamps and have to fight the elements all the time just to survive. The alligators were really not happy after the hurricane.


49 posted on 01/31/2006 1:14:08 PM PST by CajunConservative (Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Jindal.)
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To: wordsofearnest

Is Nagin bringing his family back to chocolate city from TX.?


50 posted on 01/31/2006 1:22:25 PM PST by Unicorn (Too many wimps around.)
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