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Darwinist Ideologues Are on the Run
Human Events Online ^ | Jan 31, 2006 | Allan H. Ryskind

Posted on 01/30/2006 10:27:35 PM PST by Sweetjustusnow

The two scariest words in the English language? Intelligent Design! That phrase tends to produce a nasty rash and night sweats among our elitist class.

Should some impressionable teenager ever hear those words from a public school teacher, we are led to believe, that student may embrace a secular heresy: that some intelligent force or energy, maybe even a god, rather than Darwinian blind chance, has been responsible for the gazillions of magnificently designed life forms that populate our privileged planet.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevolist; delusionalnutjobs; evolution; idiocy; ignoranceisstrength; intelligentdesign; whataloadoffeces
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To: MedicalMess

"Now how does God work? I get it now!" - I don't think so.

"God made the earth which means he wasn't from here, which means he was alien to this world. He had to be from somewhere else because the earth wasn't here before God. Since two things can't occupy the same space..." - See... you don't get it. God is in everything. He who made the laws of science can change and break them.

"And you want to impress the rest of us with your intellectual maturity and scientific reasoning?" - And you think your inane post is full of intellectual maturity and scientific reasoning? Do you even have a logical point? Oh and by the way where is that dang missing link?


51 posted on 01/31/2006 1:14:38 AM PST by GoodWithBarbarians JustForKaos (Feminism... Didn't they achieve their goals yet? Guess not! lol)
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To: Ichneumon

You should pray to the Lord to give you the insight to realize that God created evolution, not Darwin.


52 posted on 01/31/2006 1:19:33 AM PST by GoodWithBarbarians JustForKaos (Feminism... Didn't they achieve their goals yet? Guess not! lol)
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To: GoodWithBarbarians JustForKaos
Oh and by the way where is that dang missing link?

In post #14, and it's not missing.

53 posted on 01/31/2006 1:35:36 AM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Siena Dreaming
Geological evidence does not provide us with the spectrum of intermediate species we would expect. Moreover, laboratory experiments reveal how close to impossible it is for one species to evolve into another, even allowing for selective breeding and some genetic mutation.

Unless you have INCREDIBLE FAITH!!! Me, I just don't have the INCREDIBLE FAITH it takes to BELIEVE in EVOLUTION....

54 posted on 01/31/2006 1:57:34 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: december12
To say that the theory of evolution has lacunae is one thing, but that doesn't justify ID. Many other theories are conceivable

Of course. Extreterestial life experiments...

55 posted on 01/31/2006 1:58:52 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: TheCrusader
Darwin himself wrote that unless and until the missing linking fossils and transitional forms are uncovered his theory is dead in the water?

Oh how inconvenient is that...

56 posted on 01/31/2006 2:04:03 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: Sweetjustusnow
"“Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing, any one thing that you think is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology seminar at the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said: ‘I do know one thing—it ought not to be taught in high school.’”

Science is a great thing. Not for the religious cult of Evolutionists however. Geology sciences prove a young earth, and also a great flood, more than a flood, a disaster unimaginable. The entire crust of the earth collapsed inward, blew apart, and shifted. Comets and meteors today are remnants of the huge forces that happened in a matter of days and weeks. Hydoplate theory is supported by science, unlike Evolution. for anyone interested read it here: Hydroplate theory

57 posted on 01/31/2006 2:05:25 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Ichneumon
These Creationists make me sick. They are nothing more than a bunch of con people. They are evil in that they try to tear people from the truth so they can manipulate them and get their money for their own personal gain. They add nothing to the betterment of mankind and cause others horrible pain with their quackery.

These people would tell you to prey for good health when people need to seek professional care. They create false hopes. They manufacture barriers to objective thinking and problem analysis. They are individuals who prey on others' emotions instead of intellect. Creationist are liars and thieves. They are murders of the human spirit.
58 posted on 01/31/2006 2:06:35 AM PST by MedicalMess
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To: Ichneumon
Quick, why do you get goosebumps when you're cold or scared? Hint: It was functional back when our distant ancesters had fur.

Oh boy... That is just down right laughable! These same idiots who claim that is why we get goosebumbs, are also the ones that said things like "the appendix is useless, serves no function, leftover from our earlier days", and other equally PROFOUNDLY, IGNORANT MUTTERINGS.

59 posted on 01/31/2006 2:09:06 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: MedicalMess
They are nothing more than a bunch of con people. They are evil in that they try to tear people from the truth so they can manipulate them and get their money for their own personal gain

That so PERFECTLY decribes the large number of PHONY evolution 'discoveries' and frauds that have perpetrated.

60 posted on 01/31/2006 2:11:45 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: MedicalMess

By all means, show us some science that proves evolution.

We CAN however, so you science that proves creation, a young earth, how gravity works in space.

All these probes we send into space come back with dissapointing results for evolutionists, but great news for ID'ers. sucks huh?


61 posted on 01/31/2006 2:11:51 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: AmericaUnited

If you think that's funny, I once had someone here tell me he was 'evolving' because he was born with a genetic defect. (light sensitivity and loose joints were making him turn into a bat)
Moonbat maybe...


62 posted on 01/31/2006 2:14:15 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Bubbatuck
"Unfortunately, there's no real distinction between "theory" and "what's provenly known"."

I not trying to take sides here -- if I were it would be for the ToE. However, a theory is not "provenly known". In fact, the best that can be said about any theory is "not yet disproven". You could say that the ToE is robust; that it has been tested many times, and not disproven; that it has generated many testable hypothesis -- but, you can't say it has been proven. This is a fundamental principal of the scientific method.

Even if "theory" did mean what you said, labeling something a theory wouldn't mean that it was proven. That would be a tautological argument, a type of logical fallacy.

"A theory is about the highest level an idea can achieve."

Actually, a law is considered stronger than a theory. Again -- this is just a simple fact. Just as calling the ToE a "theory" doesn't prove it -- not calling it the "Law of Evolution" doesn't make it any less true.

"The Theory of Gravity is pretty well-established."

Really! Check this out:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/16/4/9
63 posted on 01/31/2006 2:35:27 AM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (")
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: GoodWithBarbarians JustForKaos
God is everything?

So what is that? God made himself? Do you people have any idea how psychotic you sound?

You are primitive barbarians who do nothing but thwart the rest of us who are trying to do some good.

I'll give you a real life intelligence test. In my hand I hold the cures for autoimmune diseases. They are caused by a stealth pathogen called Clostridium difficile. I have forty autoimmune disorders unraveled and over 1,000 papers supporting this technology.

Jesus Christ was very likey treating this pathogen with the twelve compounds he had. I've got maybe 8 of them pegged.

Now if you are sick what are you going to do? Are you going to accept that there is a hole in the immune system created by the choices we made which caused gram-positive bacteria to take off and grow. Or, do you want to pray to Jesus?

I have the formula. You can have it for a price. Or, you can go pray to Jesus and pay the church. Where do you want to put your money? Prey to God Jesus for support, or buy Jesus' formula he used to make himself appear like a God?

If you have peripheral neuropathy I give you a choice... pray to God or I can give you the use of your arms and legs back by treating the infection.

Got diabetes? Pray to God for help or go after the pathogen that alters Rho G proteins that are the signaling cascade for insulin production, skin growth, stomach healing, endocrine functions. Pray to God or pay me.

Want to collapse Antiphospholipid/Cardiolipid antibody syndrome or Systemic Lupus Erythematosus? Pray to God or pay me. I have numerous studies backing me. Got any backing your God?

Want to fix failing kidneys due to diabetes? Pray to God or pay me. I've done it, God hasn't.

To those of us that are scientists you are murders! Your beliefs kill people. Your lies delay people from seeking proper help.

Creationism is voodoo wack-job insanity. And, people that prescribe to it are mentally compromised.

Got kids with Autism or ADHD? We have the treatment and it doesn't involve psycho-active drugs. It's Jesus' formula he used to stop rage and madness. It involves stopping the drain of tryptophan and dopamine from the body caused by stealth infection. What we can't stop with the right food we can fix with antibiotics. Now do you want your kids to pray for help from Jesus who's dead? Or, would you pay me? I'm alive and have Jesus formula because I put in the research and science to find it? It's only your kids' life. Will praying fix your kid. Probably not, but our formula will.

Got fibromyalgia? Clostridium, Candida, Lyme, Microplasm, Ureaplasma and Chlamydia are your causes. Pray to God or let me fix them. Your choice! We got a 95% success rate! What does your God rate? Got any studies backing the cure for fibromyaglia with payer?

STOP HURTING PEOPLE WITH YOUR LIES!
65 posted on 01/31/2006 2:57:38 AM PST by MedicalMess
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To: MedicalMess

Quick definition please -- gram-positive bacteria


66 posted on 01/31/2006 3:00:46 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: Ichneumon
"We've got better things to do than correct your lies."

Apparently not. You're on every one of these threads telling people who believe God is the creator how ignorant they are. Do you ever post to any other subjects? Or are you just on stand-by to jump into these evo/crevo debates?
67 posted on 01/31/2006 3:20:24 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Ichneumon
He said no such thing, but he did say something quite reasonable that someone with brain-damage might have been able to mistake for something that incredibly stupid.

Here comes the name-calling. (As opposed to making rational arguments)

68 posted on 01/31/2006 3:26:58 AM PST by ThomasNast (2350)
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To: MedicalMess
Want to fix failing kidneys due to diabetes? Pray to God or pay me. I've done it, God hasn't.

I don't doubt you want to help spare people of their pain and suffering. And you're probably good at it. But what about their soul? Prayer has more purpose than the stuff you can offer.

69 posted on 01/31/2006 3:35:32 AM PST by ThomasNast (2350)
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To: Ichneumon
Do you guys have *any* material which isn't based on a) misrepresentation, or b) falsehoods due to ignorance of the material?

No. Creationists have forgotten that little commandment about bearing false witness.

70 posted on 01/31/2006 3:50:14 AM PST by rockprof
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To: rockprof

Creationists have found their belief system in conflict with educational system and this has carried over into a larger debate. Unfortunately, it's a debate they can't win.


71 posted on 01/31/2006 3:53:38 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: PatrickHenry

FYI Ping (archived).


72 posted on 01/31/2006 3:57:01 AM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: durasell
Gram-positive bacteria are one of four types of bacteria. Gram-positive anaerobic, Gram-positive aerobic, gram-negative anaerobic, Gram-negative aerobic. It denotes a slide fixing staining process. Gram-positive bacteria evolved (there's that evil word) with a common toxin design. The toxins from these bacteria have a repetitive sequence of 30 oligosaccharide molecules/genes that bind to intercellular glycoprotein transmitter substances. These toxins are both destructive to carbohydrates and proteins effectively collapsing the immune system. It is how they stealth the bodys' immune system. This is why diabetics and other autoimmune compromised individuals are always getting sick with secondary infections.

If you block the cellular damaging activation sites on these toxins with a compound that adheres to the area on the toxin that does the damage, then you disable the bacteria from stealthing the immune system. The immune system can then recognize the bacteria and begin to clear it.

If you can follow the following documents then you should totally freak! Look for the line that starts with the word, "However,".


Mastoparan-Induced Insulin Secretion from Insulin-Secreting ßTC3 and INS-1 Cells: Evidence for Its Regulation by Rho Subfamily of G Proteins Rajesh H. Amin, Hai-Qing Chen, Rajakrishnan Veluthakal, Robert B. Silver, Jingsong Li, GuoDong Li and Anjaneyulu Kowluru

Departments of Pharmaceutical Sciences (R.H.A., H.-Q.C., R.V., A.K.) and Pharmacology (R.B.S.), Physiology, Radiology, and Biomedical Engineering, Wayne State University, and ß Cell Biochemistry Research Laboratory (R.H.A., H.-Q.C., A.K.), John D. Dingell Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Detroit, Michigan 48201; and John D. Dingell Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Argonne National Laboratory (R.B.S.), and Cardiovascular Research Institute (J.L., G.L.), National University Medical Institutes, National University of Singapore, Singapore 117597

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Anjan Kowluru, Ph.D., Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, College of Pharmacy and Health Professions, Wayne State University, 259 Mack Avenue, Detroit, Michigan 48201. E-mail: akowluru@med.wayne.edu.

Mastoparan, a tetradecapeptide from wasp venom, stimulates insulin secretion from the islet ß-cells, presumably via activation of trimeric G proteins. Herein, we used Clostridial toxins, which selectively modify and inactivate the Rho subfamily of G proteins, to examine whether mastoparan-induced insulin secretion also involves activation of these signaling proteins. Mastoparan, but not mastoparan 17 (an inactive analog of mastoparan), significantly stimulated insulin secretion from ßTC3 and INS-1 cells. Preincubation of ßTC3 cells with either Clostridium difficille toxin B, which inactivates Rho, Cdc42, and Rac, or Clostridium sordellii toxin, which inactivates Ras, Rap, and Rac, markedly attenuated the mastoparan-induced insulin secretion, implicating Rac in this phenomenon. Mastoparan-stimulated insulin secretion was resistant to GGTI-2147, a specific inhibitor of geranylgeranylation of Rho G proteins (e.g. Rac), suggesting that mastoparan induces direct activation of Rac via GTP/GDP exchange. This was confirmed by a pull-down assay that quantifies the binding of activated (i.e. GTP-bound) Rac to p21-activated kinase. However, glucose-induced insulin secretion from these cells was abolished by toxin B or GGTI-2147, suggesting that the geranylgeranylation step is critical for glucose-stimulated secretion. Mastoparan significantly increased the translocation of cytosolic Rac and Cdc42 to the membrane fraction. Confocal light microscopy revealed a substantial degree of colocalization of Rac (and, to a lesser degree, Cdc42) with insulin in ß-cells exposed to mastoparan. Further, stable expression of a dominant negative (N17Rac) form of Rac into INS-1 cells resulted in a significant reduction in mastoparan-stimulated insulin secretion from these cells. Taken together, our findings implicate Rho G proteins, specifically Rac, in mastoparan-induced insulin release.


U.S. Class 424/78.04
Patent Number 5948402
Issue Date 1999 09 07
Assignee Genetics Institute, Inc. Inventor(s) Keith, James Schendel, Paul Title
Method of using IL-11 for treating antibiotic induced diarrhea
Abstract Provided by the present invention are methods of treating a variety of disorders including AIDS, arthritis (rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, spondyloarthropathies), antibiotic induced diarrheal diseases (Clostridium difficile), multiple sclerosis, osteoporosis, gingivitis, peptic ulcer disease, esophagitis, diabetes, retinitis, uveitis, reperfusion injury after myocardial infarction (MI) or cerebral vascular accident (CVA), aphthous ulcers (oral), atherosclerosis (plaque rupture), prevention of tumor metastases, asthma, preeclampsia, and allergic disorders such as rhinitis, conjunctivitis, and urticaria.
Exmp. Claim 1
Ex Claim text A method of treating an antibiotic induced diarrheal disease, comprising administering a pharmaceutically effective amount of IL-11.



P.S.: Those of us who are God really don't appreciate the rest of you telling us how you think things happened.

Moses was explaining how man changed from being a hunter/gather to farmer. This touched off: 1) an arms race to gain slaves to cultivate food, and, 2) a hole in the immune system because several crucial food resources were dropped from the diet. The murder of Able by Caine is an illustration of the rage Caine was suffering from infectious disease. It is what Jesus was after. There are only two places in the Bible where the Tree-of-Life is mentioned: in the Alpha and in the Omega. Moses knew the formula and kept it to his inner circle. They had over 1,000 years experience comparing slaves brought in from the wild and those raised on agriculture. Jesus broke the rules and starting playing God undermining the authority of the Rabbis who were in bed with the Romans. The Alpha is the loss of the complex carbohydrate food source. The Omega is the rediscovery. Everything in between are the explanations of the new morality based on a disease infected society involved in trade and continual warfare.

That is what the Bible is really about... agriculture based technology and disease control.

All things changed when man chose his own food instead of gathering whatever was available. It is our curse.
73 posted on 01/31/2006 4:02:16 AM PST by MedicalMess
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To: fizziwig
Too bad Colin Patterson was not able to post his question on FR he would have recieved several pages of sarcastic responses full of insults and vitrolic condemnation.

And evidence from folks, who unlike the author, actually appear to have some knowledge of what they talk about.

74 posted on 01/31/2006 4:07:01 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: ThomasNast
Please... there is no soul. You only exist in the minds of others when you are gone. What you are is what you are remembered for. If that is not enough for you then I feel sorry for you... You are always chasing phantoms.

"What we do in life ripples in eternity", Maximus in Gladiator
75 posted on 01/31/2006 4:08:15 AM PST by MedicalMess
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To: Sweetjustusnow
The two scariest words in the English language made redundant
76 posted on 01/31/2006 4:10:18 AM PST by tonycavanagh
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To: MedicalMess

That's for the bacteria explanation. Pretty cool stuff.

Also, I strongly suspect that you are not God. But hey, I could be wrong.

The bible is about a lot more than health and disease control. Yes, it was probably a bad idea to eat shellfish in ancient times unless you were a short walk from the ocean. However, other elements, such as basic rules for civilized society are also touched upon along with a fairly outstanding belief system.


77 posted on 01/31/2006 4:20:04 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: mc6809e
Anyone that believes the theory of evolution claims that man came from apes doesn't know the theory enough to criticize it. You're obviously ignorant.

The theory claims that man and the apes evolved from a common ancestor.

As someone who accepts evolution and has studied it more than most people, I say you're wrong. Man evolved from ape.

I say this because humans and chimps shared a common ancestor more recently than their common ancestor with gorillas, which in turn comes after their common ancestor with orangutans. So if you say that man did not evolve from ape, you must say that the human-chimp common ancestor was not an ape.

But then you have to explain how orangutans and gorillas--which by that time were separate species--achieved ape-hood independently of the chimps at some later time. In that case, the term "ape" loses all taxonomic meaning, as it's not an inherited distinction. Therefore, I say that the last human ancestor was definitely an ape, thus man evolved from ape.

On second, thought, though, perhaps it is inaccurate to say that "man evolved from ape", because by my same logic, man still is an ape. Perhaps we should instead say that "man evolved to ape!"

78 posted on 01/31/2006 4:32:58 AM PST by Physicist
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Comment #79 Removed by Moderator

XenuDidit placemark


80 posted on 01/31/2006 5:09:04 AM PST by dread78645 (Intelligent Design. It causes people to misspeak)
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To: Syncretic
The fossil record is pretty hard on poor old Adam and Eve.

I think MOST of the fossil record is a snapshot of life forms that died in the great flood.

81 posted on 01/31/2006 5:13:27 AM PST by ThomasNast (2350)
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To: Syncretic
People should appreciate the evolution theory for what it is: a line of propaganda put out by the colleges that has the aim of discrediting religion. Colleges and universities must compete with religious institutions for grants, donations, and bequests.

Delusional. The vast bulk of university science funding comes from NIH, NSF, DoD and DoE. Churches do not compete for any of this.

College professors are mostly company men, corporate brown-nosers, who will never betray their employers.

Delusional. I'm almost inclined to forward this to my chancellor, who would bust a gut at the idea his faculty are brown-nosers.

The Jewish and Christian religions, by the way, took a hit in the last 150 years, not so much from the Darwinists as from the fossil record. The fossil record is pretty hard on poor old Adam and Eve. But believers have finally absorbed that blow, have regrouped, and are ready to start dealing with the atheists in the colleges.

Delusional. Fossils were known well before Darwin. I've no doubt, however, you're ready to deal with atheists. We saw that with Paul Mirecki.

82 posted on 01/31/2006 5:18:27 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Sweetjustusnow
The two scariest words in the English language? Intelligent Design!

For the devout materialist it would be better if these two words were omitted from the human vocabulary. When applied to a level of organization above and beyond human capacities the implications are too strong. "We won't consider an intelligent designer either directly or indirectly, even if that is where the evidence leads; even if if there truly is an intelligent designer." And so there are a handful of scientists beholden to atheistic science. As long we know their biases, we can understand their explanations. But we should not let their mode of science go unchallenged or allow the federal government to establish that kind of science by law.

83 posted on 01/31/2006 5:24:32 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Ichneumon
You've posted succinct responses and a beautiful paper there—spoken by this Conservative, Zoölogist, and nominal Christian.

And Geez—talk about the Liberal "bubble"!

If one gets as far as a "pre-Med" curriculum in college, you'll realize what elegant thinking this was for the late 19th century.

If I have a choice of surgeons—one who doesn't understand Darwin, and one who does—I'll be grabbing the back of my hospital gown with both hands and racing (not walking) to the Darwinist!

84 posted on 01/31/2006 5:33:42 AM PST by Eclectica (Para el inglÚs, prensa 2.)
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To: MedicalMess
They manufacture barriers to objective thinking and problem analysis.

Exactly how is the concept of intelligent design a barrier to objective thinking and problem analysis? Have you known any scientific discoveries to take place apart from intelligence or design?

85 posted on 01/31/2006 5:47:26 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Junior; <1/1,000,000th%; balrog666; BMCDA; b_sharp; CarolinaGuitarman; CobaltBlue; Condorman; ...

I won't ping the list for this thread, because the lead article is creationist trash, and I don't deploy the list for trash. But I will ping a few, because things are looking interesting.


86 posted on 01/31/2006 6:25:36 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: NJ_gent
"Their bellies will be roasting in Hell."

--Baghdad Bob

87 posted on 01/31/2006 6:45:36 AM PST by Ken H
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To: mc6809e
Anyone that believes the theory of evolution claims that man came from apes doesn't know the theory enough to criticize it.

I'm quite confident in saying that evolution predicts an ape in the ancestry of humans. If you could use a time machine to follow back modern man's ancestry, it would take you through increasingly (as we see it) apelike creatures until you reached something which you would absolutely have to call an ape. It wouldn't be any modern species exactly, but it would be very close to a chimpanzee.

Furthermore, if you followed back further (say, 30-40 million years), you would reach creatures which were much more primitive and had noticeable tails. They would be monkeys, in other words. Not any particular modern species, but monkeys.

Go back farther yet, to the early Devonian, you will have traced our ancestral line through the only vertebrates around then--fish.

I see your claim all the time. "Evolution says man and apes (and/or monkeys) are descended from a common ancestor. It does not say man is descended from apes."

Evolution says both things. We are not descended from gorillas or even chimpanzees. (However, our last common ancestor with the latter is only about 5-7 million years back. Not only are they our closest relatives, but we are theirs.) It also says that our line is a twig on the ape branch, the apes arose from the monkeys, the monkeys from earlier primate groups, primates from earlier tree-dwelling mammals, etc.

88 posted on 01/31/2006 6:56:09 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Siena Dreaming

Correct. *God diddit* is ridiculous but that it all happened for no reason is OK. /Very heavy on the sarcam for those who are clueless


89 posted on 01/31/2006 7:14:08 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Hoplite; Ichneumon
If I printed out #15, not only would it be taller than I am, it would need an elevator and an area code.

The classic signiture of an Ichneumon post. You can recognise it a mile away.

90 posted on 01/31/2006 7:16:38 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MedicalMess; durasell
A medical person would answer your question as MedicalMess has. But the situation is much simpler. Over 100 years ago Christian Gram developed a staining procedure to see bacteria in infected tissue. And it works, for some. It turns out that most, but not all, bacteria fall into the Gram Positive or Gram Negative category. It really has little to do with being an aerobe or an anaerobe. Quantitatively there are many more Gram negative species than Gram positive ones, and since most bacteria are not pathogenic, disease is only a small part. There is, however, a biochemical basis for the staining reaction, based on the peptidoglycan, peptidoglycan cross-linking and the presence of an outer membrane. I can supply you with some references, if you wish.

But the bottom line is that the Gram positive cell wall reacts to Gram's method by retaining the crystal violet and is dubbed Gram positive - these include some of the nasty bugs MM mentioned. A Gram negative cell releases the crystal violet and stained by the counterstain. A well known example of this is E. coli.

While the original staining procedure was an empirical procedure, the results are based on the biochemistry of the cells.

91 posted on 01/31/2006 7:26:16 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: Bubbatuck

So what if evolutionists exposed the hoax? It certainly took them long enough. That hoax stood for a long time before it was exposed. And archeoraptor was a hoax too. This argument is only trying to make evolutionists look like the heros out of embarrassment for what their collegues did. It's the same argument every time those two hoaxes are mentioned.


92 posted on 01/31/2006 7:30:23 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Bubbatuck
They still keep mis-representing what a "theory" is.

That's because some scientists insist on using their own special boys club definition of theory that can't be found anywhere but on FR and wikipedia instead of a more commonly known reliable, objective, source like Merriam Webster; which BTW was the definition that I was taught when I got my degree and public state university. None of this "special definiton used only by scientists" stuff just so they can tell the unenlightened that they don't know what they're talking about and that they need to go back to college and get a *real* education.

93 posted on 01/31/2006 7:36:05 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

No one condones hoaxes and frauds on the evo side. But it takes a scientist to be able to recognize one when it appears. And when it is recognized it is expunged along with the perpetrator.

Most of Creationism is fraudulent. But in that case the perp is applauded and given a front row seat. I suppose that's because if the frauds were shown the door, the auditorium would be empty.


94 posted on 01/31/2006 7:37:36 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: MedicalMess

Of course, people like John Paul II, and Mother Theresa, and Billy Graham.


95 posted on 01/31/2006 7:40:45 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: TheCrusader
"I don't mind teaching the uncertainties within the theory of evolution,"

'Uncertainties'?? How about fabrications like 'Piltdown Man', do you teach that little bit of Darwinism treachery in class? Or do you mean the 'uncertainties' such as the fact that Darwin himself wrote that unless and until the missing linking fossils and transitional forms are uncovered his theory is dead in the water? I hope you teach this, it's all part of the story of 'evolution'.

Piltdown is taught; at least my graduate level evolution classes discussed it and why the British anthropologists fell for it hook, line and sinker. And also how it was distrusted from the start by most everyone else.

And Darwin did realize his theory relied on fossils that were not available. But that was the 1850s. You really think no fossils have been found since then? What do you think paleontologists have been doing for 150 years? They have a lot more fossils than you will find out about on the creation websites, that's for sure!

Here's one now!

(By the way, note the number: KNM-WT 15000. This is the 15,000th specimen from the West Turkana area of Kenya. There are a lot of other areas producing fossils in Kenya, and a lot of other countries both in Africa and around the world producing fossils. That's a lot of fossils! Folks quoting Darwin about the lack of fossils and transitional forms 150 years ago, and implying that is still true, must be getting all their eduction from the creation websites or something!)



Fossil: KNM-WT 15000

Site: Nariokotome, West Turkana, Kenya (1)

Discovered By: K. Kimeu, 1984 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.6 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7, 10), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Male (based on pelvis, browridge) (1, 8, 9)

Cranial Capacity: 880 (909 as adult) cc (1)

Information: Most complete early hominid skeleton (80 bones and skull) (1, 8)

Interpretation: Hairless and dark pigmented body (based on environment, limb proportions) (7, 8, 9). Juvenile (9-12 based on 2nd molar eruption and unfused growth plates) (1, 3, 4, 7, 8). Juvenile (8 years old based on recent studies on tooth development) (27). Incapable of speech (based on narrowing of spinal canal in thoracic region) (1)

Nickname: Turkana Boy (1), Nariokotome Boy

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=38

96 posted on 01/31/2006 7:45:40 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Sweetjustusnow
Will has nothing but scorn for the lower human life forms who think ID should be mentioned, even if just shyly whispered, in a public school setting.

Misrepresenting facts is not a very good argument. No one is saying public schools can't teach ID. They're saying it shouldn't be taught in a science class, especially biology class.

97 posted on 01/31/2006 7:48:11 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Nathan Zachary
Geology sciences prove a young earth, and also a great flood, more than a flood, a disaster unimaginable.

Sorry, no such evidence. Try this site:

Problems with a Global Flood, Second Edition, by Mark Isaak

98 posted on 01/31/2006 7:54:13 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Coyoteman

" You really think no fossils have been found since then? What do you think paleontologists have been doing for 150 years? They have a lot more fossils than you will find out about on the creation websites, that's for sure!"

This reminds me of a trip I made to Dinosaur National Monument. There they have left many of the fossils in situ so you can see how they are grouped and how and where they died. I got excited and asked the resident bone guy "But, but, what happens if there's something really new and really interesting underneath?" The bone guy just chuckled and said "We have so many fossils in the back room that it would take 1000 years to study them completely. We don't need any more."

(I still think they may be missing something).


99 posted on 01/31/2006 7:57:01 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Time again for some definitions (from a google search):

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"

Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics"

Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

Model: a simplified framework designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process

Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence)

Observation: any information collected with the senses

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith

Faith: the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or reason

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof

Religion: (theistic): "1 the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2 the expression of this in worship. 3 a particular system of faith and worship." Non-Theistic: "The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life."

Impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

Based on these, evolution is a theory. CS and ID are beliefs.

[Last revised 1/2/06]

100 posted on 01/31/2006 7:58:55 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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