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Bush Calls For 'Rational, Humane' Guest Worker Program
AP ^ | Feb 1, 2006 | AP

Posted on 02/01/2006 12:04:11 PM PST by Icelander

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To: My2Cents
You know who we never see on these immigration threads? -- farmers who have to get their crops harvested and to market before they rot.

Migrant farm workers have been a part of agriculture as far back as I can remember ( into the 50's at least).

I don't see a problem with 'guest workers' as long as it's regulated.

Something along the lines of post #16.

In the meantime stop the illegal immigration.

151 posted on 02/01/2006 2:09:48 PM PST by Vinnie
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To: pbrown
I just wish he would remember the oath he swore.


U.S. Constitution Article 4 Section 4:

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,

and shall protect each of them against Invasion;"


Invasion: \In*va"sion\, n. [L. invasio: cf. F. invasion. See Invade.] [1913 Webster]

1. The act of invading; the act of encroaching upon the rights or possessions of another; encroachment; trespass.


152 posted on 02/01/2006 2:21:32 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: jackbenimble
I tend to agree with that statement. I left the Concrete and Construction biz in Cali as I could not compete with the illegals employers. (among a few other reasons)
But the farmers deal in a free market, if everyone else is employing illegals, that is what you have to do. There is no Market Premium for produce harvested by legals. Organic yes, but not just because the farmer followed the law. A real shame what's happening to this nation.
153 posted on 02/01/2006 2:22:09 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: Shalom Israel
Of course, one of the problems with "punishing" illegal immigrants is that it costs even more money. With execution, your suggested recommendation, you still have to dispose of the bodies. Even mass graves don't come cheap. And Mexico, from whom we import a considerable amount of oil, might just shut off the valves in protest.

Incarceration? Well, we know how expensive that is -- even if the government decided to use the incarcerated illegals in chain gangs that just happened to be part of construction crews and produce picking crews. And again, Mexico would protest. It could even decide to divert oil to China (nice of us to have built the Panama Canal).

To date, the cheapest solution is repatriation, usually by bus.

The one form of punishment that actually generates income is to fine the businesses that knowingly use illegal labor. But as already discussed on this thread, it's all a game.

154 posted on 02/01/2006 2:25:11 PM PST by mumps
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To: Travis McGee

So do I. He has the authority granted to him to shut this mess down in a heartbeat, but......


155 posted on 02/01/2006 2:25:53 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: investigateworld
My husband got out of the construction business in Austin many years back because he couldn't maintain his workers salaries when other companies would drive over to east Austin and gather up illegals in the backs of their trucks for a pittance.
156 posted on 02/01/2006 2:30:35 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
These greedy Quislings would sell their daughters to a Tijuana bordello for a cut of the take, and then claim they thought it was a modeling academy.
157 posted on 02/01/2006 2:33:38 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: pbrown

If terrorists stroll over a border that is still wide open years after 9-11, Bush should and would be impeached for gross dereliction of his sworn duty.


158 posted on 02/01/2006 2:34:45 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: mumps
...it costs even more money. With execution, your suggested recommendation, you still have to dispose of the bodies.

There's a free-market solution, and it's actually quite simple: privatize all land in the United States. The land-owner has the right to shoot trespassers. After that, whose property is the body? Obviously, the original owner no longer can claim it; therefore unless a will clearly bequeathes it to somebody, it is abandoned property.

The land-owner has first dibs, since its on his land, and can do what he wants with it. Presumably, a market for these raw materials will exist; perhaps a fertilizer or animal-feed company. Soylent green, maybe. Instead of a state-centric disposal problem, we have a free-market solution that produces benefits and generates wealth.

the cheapest solution is repatriation

Don't forget the need for a deterrent. Repatriation after public flogging, maybe. Sure, that's fine with me as well.

159 posted on 02/01/2006 2:35:35 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: dixiechick2000
guest worker program that rejects amnesty

There is no such thing. It is a false concept invented and labeled by Karl Rove to sucker the masses into accepting another amnesty scam. It is, in fact, a bald-faced lie. I refuse to drink the Kool-Aid. Seal the border, secure the nation, and then and only then can we talk about who we're going to allow in and for how long we're going to allow them. Until the border is under control, it is all just a bunch of useless talk designed to mislead the nation into accepting another amnesty and dissolution of our national sovereignty.

160 posted on 02/01/2006 2:39:48 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: pbrown
Oh well it was fun while it lasted.
I hear from buddies still in the biz (in Cali) it's traditional for Mexican drywallers to poop in the wall before the last panel goes on....
161 posted on 02/01/2006 2:43:25 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: EternalVigilance

Yeah, he's got it about right; that's about how high the stack of votes your candidates have gotten would be.


162 posted on 02/01/2006 2:45:08 PM PST by Howlin (Why don't you just report the news, instead of what might be the news? - Donald Rumsfeld 1/25/2006)
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To: Howlin

LOL...you're predictable if nothing else.


163 posted on 02/01/2006 2:47:06 PM PST by EternalVigilance (www.usbordersecurity.org)
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To: Spiff

Here's my email to the President today -

TO president@whitehouse.gov

I'm a loyal Republican Mr President, but I have one word for you regarding your Guest Worker Program.

NO Hell NO!!!

You have to start listening to the people Mr President.

See this thread at the largest Republican Forum on the Internet.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1569587/posts


164 posted on 02/01/2006 2:47:58 PM PST by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
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To: EternalVigilance
you're predictable if nothing else.

Prediction doesn't have much to do with it.

That's just all there is to say.

165 posted on 02/01/2006 2:48:09 PM PST by Howlin (Why don't you just report the news, instead of what might be the news? - Donald Rumsfeld 1/25/2006)
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To: afnamvet

Soitenly.

If you have time you might read Tancredo's plan as well. It's hr3333.


166 posted on 02/01/2006 2:49:16 PM PST by moehoward
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To: Icelander
"...Rep. Chris Cannon, R-Utah, said he was pleased Bush 'called for an immigration system that deals with the influx of illegal immigrants realistically...'"

Hmm, I didn't hear any plans for incarceration or deportation or both. "Realistically" "deal(ing) with "illegal immigrants" should involve both. Hiring them as employees, giving them taxpayer dollars and various other gifts thanks to the largesse that exists because of citizens, is NOT "deal(ing) with the influx of illegal immigrants realistically."

I also think it's sad that Bush thinks the country "can't function" without illegal aliens. They're here illegally, they're violating the laws, and thus, he might just as well say that "crime pays, and we need it."

167 posted on 02/01/2006 2:50:27 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: pbrown

bayou was zotted months ago :)


168 posted on 02/01/2006 2:53:45 PM PST by Stellar Dendrite (There's nothing "Mainstream" about the Orwellian Media!!!)
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To: Spiff
What's wrong with a 90 day guest worker program for all illegal aliens, prior to deportation?
169 posted on 02/01/2006 2:54:17 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: longtermmemmory

There is just no.way someone who has been in the U.S. for TEN YEARS is going to "leave the country." They're not going to leave.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LEAVE. They will stay without benefit of "papers" and convert their lifestyles to yet more of an underground economy than exists now. They will not leave, AND THEY WILL BE EXTREMELY RESENTFUL AT THE IDEA OF BEING EXPECTED TO.

Thus, 'guest worker programs' are going to: increase and expand an underground economy and increase and expand by more millions the illegal alien population in the U.S. AND they will create increasing social disturbance because after being here in the country, they'll continue to amplify their demands for more goods, benefits and services. They are not going to "just leave" after ten years. Or even after two years, or one.


170 posted on 02/01/2006 2:56:06 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: investigateworld
It was fun while it lasted. We were in a whole different tax bracket back in the mid 80's. We pulled up stakes and moved to Montana.

it's traditional for Mexican drywallers to poop in the wall before the last panel goes on....

That is soooooooo disgusting.

171 posted on 02/01/2006 2:56:29 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: Mr. Mojo

You got it!


172 posted on 02/01/2006 2:56:51 PM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: Travis McGee

I have no doubt he will. Surely he must know that, which makes it all the more confusing why nothing has been done. Americans have been screaming about closing our borders since 9-11 and have only gotten back excuses or silence.


173 posted on 02/01/2006 2:59:50 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: My2Cents

Tomatoes were picked for a long, long time before illegal aliens appeared under with the ruse that they were doing the work that Americans won't do.

And corn was harvested. And fruit was picked and steps were swept and cars were washed and children were raised and meals were cooked and...still are.

I always ask when people say this as to who do you think was doing the work BEFORE illegal aliens arrived? Everyone was doing the work, each and every day.

A lot of highschool kids can't find summer jobs today because most of what they'd be doing is taken by illegal aliens. Same with parttime workers, retirees and such. A lot of people are available to work but most labor is now filled by illegal aliens. I know most clerks in the local Target stores don't speak English.


174 posted on 02/01/2006 3:00:17 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: Howlin; EternalVigilance
Yeah, he's got it about right; that's about how high the stack of votes your candidates have gotten would be.

Howlin, you're forgetting how great it is to lose on principle. Incrementalism be damned - there is no more glorious feeling than to look around at the end of the day and realize that you have gained absolutely nothing.

175 posted on 02/01/2006 3:00:53 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: Stellar Dendrite

That explains why I haven't seen him, thanks. I'm surprised he lasted so long. :-)


176 posted on 02/01/2006 3:02:22 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: pbrown
>>>>That is soooooooo disgusting.<<<<<


Hey quit being so Eurocentric, our diversity is our strength.
(Left Cali for Oregon)
177 posted on 02/01/2006 3:02:56 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: Travis McGee

R O T F L M A O


178 posted on 02/01/2006 3:04:23 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: investigateworld

: )


179 posted on 02/01/2006 3:04:49 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: EveningStar
Howlin, you're forgetting how great it is to lose on principle. Incrementalism be damned - there is no more glorious feeling than to look around at the end of the day and realize that you have gained absolutely nothing.

So, you're admitting that Bush hasn't done a thing about the border?

180 posted on 02/01/2006 3:06:23 PM PST by EternalVigilance (www.usbordersecurity.org)
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To: My2Cents

They can always hire legal residents, citizens. The only reason that those "farmers" are now dependent upon illegal aliens is because they're comfortable with the process.

If it comes down to them not being able to plant and harvest if they continue to break the laws, they'll be hiring citizens and right quickly. Do whatever it takes. I'm familiar with agricultural and ranching lands and communities and there are people who will do the work if the work is available and the wages are paid.

They will just have to start running a tighter ship, accept that legitimacy is preferable to illigitimacy and change their ways.

And line up workers a year before, offer incentives. Might be a rough change at first but isn't everything.

The reasoning that is based upon the maintaining of bad behavior because it's what works and what is easiest makes the bad behavior preferable is just wrong.


181 posted on 02/01/2006 3:06:36 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: moehoward

I read Tom's....good plan. : )


182 posted on 02/01/2006 3:06:52 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: EveningStar

BTW, 'incrementalism' is 'boob-bait for bubbas'...


183 posted on 02/01/2006 3:07:54 PM PST by EternalVigilance (www.usbordersecurity.org)
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To: EveningStar

It surely must be a powerful feeling, as they kept doing it over and over. Apparently they get the same rush from gaining nothing that crack gives to dope heads.


184 posted on 02/01/2006 3:08:48 PM PST by Howlin (Why don't you just report the news, instead of what might be the news? - Donald Rumsfeld 1/25/2006)
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To: investigateworld
We headed in the same direction. Oregon is beautiful.

our diversity is our strength.

I'll remember to have that carved on my headstone.....lolololol

185 posted on 02/01/2006 3:09:56 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: RSmithOpt

Excellent comments! DITTO.


186 posted on 02/01/2006 3:18:59 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: Reagan Man

DITTO to that, too!


187 posted on 02/01/2006 3:19:56 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: pbrown

We headed in the same direction.>>> Oregon is beautiful<<<<

Be sure and stay for our Rain Festival!


188 posted on 02/01/2006 3:22:42 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: investigateworld
We're in Louisiana now. I think we have some gypsy blood in us. We moved back home to be close to the family cemetery, long story. I digress. We went to Oregon twice. Absolutely beautiful scenery.
189 posted on 02/01/2006 3:27:23 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: pbrown
Are you doing Katrina re-build?
I haven't heard anything good about it on my other favorite Forum (Contractor.com - has a great section for the DIY crowd if anyone needs help)
190 posted on 02/01/2006 3:33:30 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: bluetone006
"...But let's say I'm wrong and the only way to get American's back into the fields and the construction industry is to raise wages (to something livable). Food and housing would cost a small percentage more. But the money would stay in the US, in our economy, it would be taxed, fewer American's would be on public assistance, and the massive amounts we spend on hand outs would end. It would be worth every penny and more in the long run."

It won't work if another 10 million arrive every year, above and beyond what we now have in the country.

Over half of Mexico's population says they'd move to the U.S. if the could, that they "want to". Start a Guest Worker program, and those fifty million or so will show up. All it took to vastly expand the existing illegal alien population in the U.S. at the start of Bush's first term was the mere mention of the word, "amnesty."

191 posted on 02/01/2006 3:40:10 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: investigateworld

No. It's Rita that provided more work than my hubby can handle in our neck of the woods. From what we hear here, NO is filled with illegals doing rebuilding there. There's good pay my nephew told me. He's there working.


192 posted on 02/01/2006 3:40:27 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: pbrown
There's good pay my nephew told me. He's there working

No way! That can't be true. That is a job Americans won't do!

193 posted on 02/01/2006 3:49:15 PM PST by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: jackbenimble
Lololol

I know. Aren't you tired of hearing that expression? It's such a lie.

194 posted on 02/01/2006 3:53:49 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: jackbenimble
As an after thought. Many citizens in NO don't want to work. They're getting checks of some kind. NO is, or was, a bastion of liberalism after all. There are jobs there for the taking for those who want to work.

IIRC, Landrieu was having a cow not too long ago about illegals doing the work. Now, Mitch Landrieu is talking about running for mayor there. Ahhhhh, nepotism, what a glorious thing to behold.

195 posted on 02/01/2006 4:06:01 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: investigateworld
Be sure and stay for our Rain Festival!

Shucks that ain't nuthin, we have a genuine Urine festival here.

I Kid you not. Golden Showers and all.

196 posted on 02/01/2006 4:06:06 PM PST by itsahoot (Any country that does not control its borders, is not a country. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Flavius Josephus

I don't know if others have considered this or not, but, I've often thought that the reason that AQ has not made an attack (yet) that brings notice to the access to the country via our Southern border (from Mexico), is because, if/when they did/do, it will force the issue as to Southern border insecurity.

Thus, I do believe that they are "preserving" their access ability using the Southern border of the U.S. by NOT focusing any more interest/concern than is necessary.

However, I regard people -- both in elected office and otherwise -- in our country who denounce the idea of increased Southern border security (among other promiscuities related) as being indulging the problems facing our nation as to security. They actually service the enemy..."a fence won't work" and similar is nonsense but it also seems a suspect statement, in my view. Entirely suspect.


197 posted on 02/01/2006 4:06:11 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; A CA Guy; ...

ping


198 posted on 02/01/2006 4:23:17 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: itsahoot

What a pisser.


199 posted on 02/01/2006 4:38:27 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: Icelander

Evidently Bush has taken to channelling the wit and wisdom of Jimmy Carter. Great minds thinking alike.


200 posted on 02/01/2006 6:53:11 PM PST by Pelham ("Borders? We don' need no stinking borders!")
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