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New Orleans 'risks extinction'
BBC ^ | 2 February 2006 | Helen Lambourne

Posted on 02/02/2006 10:08:40 AM PST by ncountylee

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To: alarm rider

ok right there is what I am talking about. Most people think the French quarter. What about uptown? Uptown did amazing well. Then also again because everyone assumes NOla is everything what about st bernard, what about palcqumines parish what terrebone, what about the cities north of the lake?


51 posted on 02/02/2006 10:59:03 AM PST by bayourant
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To: SF Republican


My liberal NYC sister:

"It's going to be under water by 2100! Don't rebuild any of New Orleans or spend one taxpayer penny on it!"

Me:

"It's going to be under water by 2080 - twenty years earlier! And any hurricane this season could destroy it again!"

My liberal NYC sister:

"Forget New Orleans! - It's is sinking faster every year and they blew money on fountains and graft and bribes and welfare! Build a new city above sea level somewhere else!"

Me:

"I agree!"

My liberal NYC sister:

"This is not only crazy and theft of my taxes dollars but is environmentally insane!"

Me:

"You call yourself a liberal democrat but don't think or act like on! Why do you vote for democrats!"

My liberal NYC sister:

"Because.....


52 posted on 02/02/2006 11:00:08 AM PST by devolve (<-- (-in a manner reminiscent of Senator Gasbag F. Kohnman-)
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To: bayourant

Could those houses be re-built almost anywhere else?

Is there some value to living below sea level that justifies the immense expense required to rebuild in this area?

While there was a city there, there was a lot of sunk costs that made it worthwhile to protect the property that had already been built. But now that is no longer the case. These areas are destroyed. There is simply no reason to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to put them back, when they will just be destroyed again, down the line.


53 posted on 02/02/2006 11:00:17 AM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: dirtboy

A direct hit is classified as the center of a storm passing within 70nm of a given point. By that standard, N.O. received a direct hit.


54 posted on 02/02/2006 11:01:22 AM PST by dg62
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To: SF Republican

Ok this is everyones mistake. Everyone blindly assumes this is mother nature. Most of the problems were caused by man not Mother nature. For instance the fact we have channeled the Miss river so well all the sediment go off down the Continential shelf and is entirely useless. Or that in oil exporatrion damage was caused by basically creating water highwyas in the marsh. Again these problems can be reversed


55 posted on 02/02/2006 11:01:22 AM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant
For instance the fact we have channeled the Miss river so well all the sediment go off down the Continental shelf and is entirely useless - exactly, thank you for proving my point.
56 posted on 02/02/2006 11:03:01 AM PST by SF Republican
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To: alarm rider

Exactly. Well said!


57 posted on 02/02/2006 11:03:03 AM PST by SAJ
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To: gridlock

Again some areas will not be redeveloped. There is a plan being formulated down there. Its politically hot but its proceeding


58 posted on 02/02/2006 11:03:37 AM PST by bayourant
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To: SF Republican

There will be some hard descions to make in the future. However a great solution and diverting some of this water to other areas. Its a big part of the solution


59 posted on 02/02/2006 11:04:49 AM PST by bayourant
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

The San Francisco earthquake of 1906 was also a worse disaster with anything up to 6000 dying mostly from the subsequent fire and later of injuries sustained.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/25/state2049EST7857.DTL


60 posted on 02/02/2006 11:05:12 AM PST by protest1
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To: bayourant

Ahh...if these places did not flood, then more power to them. I am not without experience in LA, my Mother grew up in South Louisana, and I spent many happy hour in NO. I can understand that losing parts of it, not just the FQ is painful.

It's just time to face facts, cut the losses and move on. NO will never be the same, you cannot change that fact. It's time for common sense to take over this thing and see the future. The future is that what is prone to flood will flood at some point. If you build dams, dikes, canal walls, channel walls, etc. to keep the water out, sooner or later it gets in, water will seek it's own level.

Let what should be swamps and wetlands revert to that.


61 posted on 02/02/2006 11:06:09 AM PST by alarm rider (Irritating leftists as often as is humanly possible....)
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To: ncountylee

I doubt New Orleans will EVER be extinct. It has too much charm in the eyes of the people who want to be there. It will be a much different city after all this, but that could be a real improvement! What gets built back will, I hope, not be large scale government housing projects that did nothing but encourage criminals to take advantage of the poorest citizens and robbed people of any hope at all. I'm guessing that those who escaped from those hell-holes are likely to NEVER return. I'm sure they've found much nicer places to live with better schools for their kids, more opportunities for improving their lives, and are thankful they're out of New Orleans.


62 posted on 02/02/2006 11:06:37 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: SF Republican
bayourant For instance the fact we have channeled the Miss river so well all the sediment go off down the Continental shelf and is entirely useless - exactly, thank you for proving my point.

No. It's not entirely useless. In a few million years those sediments will be excellent sources of hydrocarbons.

63 posted on 02/02/2006 11:07:42 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: Bitsy
I hope in the future if there is a biblical event in some of your areas I can have as much compassion as you have toward us.

There's a town near here called Shoals. It was severely flooded last year. I didn't hear a single person asking for money to rebuild on the floodplain.

In Missouri after the huge Mississippi floods there was a town that was wiped out. They moved to higher ground and rebuilt. No one asked for money to rebuild on the flood plain.

Bitsy, It's not that we have no compassion, it's just that it is so incredibly stupid to rebuilb NOLA where it is. The coastal lands that once protected it are gone, the city continues to sink lower every year, there is nothing beyond the french quarter (and possibly not even that) that cannot be moved or rebuilt elsewhere. NOLA is dead. If this hurricane didn't finish the job the next one will.

Truth has no compassion, it just is.

64 posted on 02/02/2006 11:09:41 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: alarm rider

I realize Nola will never be the same. In some ways that is good and some ways bad. But we have been living with hurricanes down here for a while. Again the problem is this. Because of oil exploration, the increase of trade, the importance of the Miss river, over the past 50 years, certain decisons were made that were unwize enviromentally. This actions were determined also on a national level. What louisiana wants is this. The recognition of our contribution to the economies health and our national security over the past decades. While other states have laws not to drill Louisiana allowed it. THis provides benifits for all. We are just starting to feel how should I put it , that we feelwe are some kind of woman that once the guy got his fun just left us like some common hooker.


65 posted on 02/02/2006 11:13:36 AM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant

Understood. My best wishes for you and yours.

Regards,
AR


66 posted on 02/02/2006 11:14:45 AM PST by alarm rider (Irritating leftists as often as is humanly possible....)
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To: alarm rider

No, New Orleans won't ever be the same again. And you can't put your hand in the same river twice.

What's your point about Berlin and Dresden? Those cities WERE rebuilt.

New Orleans is not just the French Quarter, and the French Quarter is not just for tourists.

It seems that the people most against helping New Orleans are those who know the least about it.


67 posted on 02/02/2006 11:14:55 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: John O

nola is not dead there are engineering solutions to the problem this can be reversed. I am sorry if many dont want to spend the money for it but we will fight for it. Because in 10 years we will be hearing the same thing about other towns when it could have been prevented


68 posted on 02/02/2006 11:15:36 AM PST by bayourant
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To: swain_forkbeard

amen again it seems alot of people get their views of nola from their intense research of "girls gone wild " videos


69 posted on 02/02/2006 11:16:37 AM PST by bayourant
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To: John O


NOtlantis








70 posted on 02/02/2006 11:16:37 AM PST by devolve (<-- (-in a manner reminiscent of Senator Gasbag F. Kohnman-)
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To: bayourant
The ignorance of Freepers on Louisiana questions is again on display.

I don't know if it's as much ignorance as asinine indifference.

71 posted on 02/02/2006 11:18:47 AM PST by ericthecurdog (The chief export of Chuck Norris is pain.)
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To: Bitsy
Louisiana is a red state. New Orleans was a blue city thus explaining Blanco and Landrieu. Vitter and Jindal represent and were voted in by RED voters.

Wrong. Blanco won because of rural Louisiana racist voters.

72 posted on 02/02/2006 11:21:03 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (None genuine without my signature - Jim Beam)
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To: swain_forkbeard

I know a lot about NO. I had my first good wine at Broussards, my first oyster po' boy down the street. My uncle lived just across the river, my Mother was from there.

The point about Berlin and Dresden is that they are not now the same cities that they were, nor will they ever be. Those cities are gone and yes they have been rebuilt, but they are inland, NO is not. Surely you can see the problems that lead to this Charlie Foxtrot in the first place? What would for God's sake be the point in rebuilding what should have remained swamp and wetlands? Water will seek it's own level, and nothing you can build can ever defeat the power of nature unleashed. Common sense needs to trump the emotional response here, and quick.


73 posted on 02/02/2006 11:21:46 AM PST by alarm rider (Irritating leftists as often as is humanly possible....)
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To: ericthecurdog

true as to the indifference. I tell you I wish I could organize a freeper bus tour of southern louisiana from the Texas border to Mississippi so people can make an informed judgment about this portion of America they would like just to sink. I was talking to a Natioanl Guard friend that was with the Tiger Brigade of the Lousiana National Guard. It is truly beyond his belief that after his unit spent so much time building up a country to return and get the feeling no cares about his backyard. He said he felt he got more respect in Iraq


74 posted on 02/02/2006 11:23:06 AM PST by bayourant
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

no thats incorrect. North louisiana voted for Blanco because she was the only State wide official to visit these towns up in the Northern part of the State. Once a poltico shakes a few hands nad is involved in local matters and tells people your part of the state and we appreciate you its remembered. I was involved in Jindals campaign and that was the problem in the Northern part of the State. Not race.


75 posted on 02/02/2006 11:25:55 AM PST by bayourant
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: alarm rider

The point being is this. NO one is saying rebuild NOLA like it was. We realize tough calls have to be made. But the situation is not as dire as people think. Again there are solutions


77 posted on 02/02/2006 11:27:32 AM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant
I don't agree. I believe that race did play a part in it, mostly based on anecdotal evidence, but it sounds right to me.
78 posted on 02/02/2006 11:30:33 AM PST by half-cajun
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To: ncountylee

New Orleans took a direct hit from Hurricane Katrina

----Nope. That is a lie. No need to read anymore.


79 posted on 02/02/2006 11:32:07 AM PST by WasDougsLamb (I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man)
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To: SuziQ

I don't remember where, but I read that a poll of the ones who had to be relocated reveals that 85% of them do not plan on returning to New Orleans. It would be interesting to see a poll like that broken down by city and by those living in paid-for, temporary motel rooms.

My son was talking to a AA female at the grocery store here in North Central Arkansas. She got a job almost as soon as she got here and plans to stay. She said she loves it here.

I'd like to see those stats, too - how many of those relocated got jobs like she did. With jobs, a person wouldn't be as inclined to return to the unknown.


80 posted on 02/02/2006 11:32:17 AM PST by JudyB1938 (If we live in the past, we will never see the future. Neither will most of our children. -Tahoe3002)
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To: half-cajun

This is my view. I live in the Shreveport area. Kathern Blanco seemed almost to have a second home in Shreveport. You couldnt pick up a paper without seeing her encouaraging people here. I hear the same things from people in Monroe. More importantly she visited all those towns in those small parishes that were never graced by a visit from our esteemed Gov. Foster in his 8 years of Gov spent no time up here. It was noticed and North LA let that be known that it appreciated Blancos attention at the polls. I had a lot of Republican friends that supported Blanco for that reason because they felt we would have a ear in Baton Rouge.


81 posted on 02/02/2006 11:34:32 AM PST by bayourant
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To: JudyB1938

True part of the problem is this. Everyone on this board was screaming property rights after last years Supreme court decsion. In fact rights to property and proper compensation for it if taken by the Govt is something I think we would all agree on. The devil is in the details. How do you do it. Esp with so much of the population scatthered. Its occuring but because of sound legal issues it cant be done by executive fiat.


82 posted on 02/02/2006 11:37:22 AM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant

Ah that may be why we have a difference of opinion. All of my family lives in South Louisiana and the story they tell is that race had a lot to do with it. That plus the fact that the esteemed gov. liked to emphasize the Babineaux part of her name, if you know what I mean.


83 posted on 02/02/2006 11:38:28 AM PST by half-cajun
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To: bayourant
True part of the problem is this. Everyone on this board was screaming property rights after last years Supreme court decsion. In fact rights to property and proper compensation for it if taken by the Govt is something I think we would all agree on. The devil is in the details. How do you do it. Esp with so much of the population scatthered. Its occuring but because of sound legal issues it cant be done by executive fiat.

True.

On the other hand, nuke New Orleans with a 50 megaton high-yield airburst nuclear device.

Y'see.

84 posted on 02/02/2006 11:39:46 AM PST by Lazamataz (I have a Chinese family renting an apartment from me. They are lo mein tenants.)
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To: bayourant
I was talking to a Natioanl Guard friend that was with the Tiger Brigade of the Lousiana National Guard. It is truly beyond his belief that after his unit spent so much time building up a country to return and get the feeling no cares about his backyard. He said he felt he got more respect in Iraq.

My 'bruddah' is 256th... he said the same thing. He got back from Iraq just in time to evacuate from Katrina. Now he's the liaison between FEMA, the National Guard and the communities in his part of SW LA. Cajuns are working their ass off to get back to normal in that part of the State. I will say that I wish I felt like more was being done by the majority of displaced 'Yats' (I know you're from there, and I hate to say that, but it's true).

The uninformed carping of many around FR on this issue is just that; uninformed carping. I've just learned to ignore it. You cannot bring reason into their life, no matter how much you try, and New Orleans, along with the rest of the Gulf Coast, is going to survive this whether they want it to or not. So what is the point? Just crack an Abita, put on some Bosoleil, and ignore these a**holes.

85 posted on 02/02/2006 11:41:19 AM PST by ericthecurdog (The chief export of Chuck Norris is pain.)
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To: SF Republican

why? many cities are built below sea level and have no problems whatsoever. NO had a larger problem of sitting between a lake and a gulf, in a hurricaine zone.


86 posted on 02/02/2006 11:41:50 AM PST by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: half-cajun

i am curious what do you mean by her using babaeneaux.


87 posted on 02/02/2006 11:42:05 AM PST by bayourant
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To: ericthecurdog

true I know its a losing battle. Let me clarify. I am a North Louisiana boy with family in the region. However I lived in New orleans for a time. I wasnt an evacuee


88 posted on 02/02/2006 11:43:59 AM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant
true I know its a losing battle. Let me clarify. I am a North Louisiana boy with family in the region. However I lived in New orleans for a time. I wasnt an evacuee

Oh.... so you're a yankee and not a Yat. Just kidding. Sorry, I gathered that you were from NOLA. Okay... so I will commence unrestricted picking upon on all Yats, Nin't Warders, Uptowners and Algereens. :)

89 posted on 02/02/2006 11:49:06 AM PST by ericthecurdog (The chief export of Chuck Norris is pain.)
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To: bayourant
nola is not dead there are engineering solutions to the problem this can be reversed

You're right. We can bulldoze it in, fill the bowl with dirt from somewhere and rebuild anew on top of it. That should last until it sinks or until the sediments beneath it wash out from under the new fill.

The question is, Wouldn't it be much cheaper and much smarter to just build somehwere more sensible? I think it would be. Sinking any more funds into the future swamp called NO is just poor use of resources.

(of course if the residents want to spend their own money that's fine. Just keep your hands out of my pocket when you rebuild.)

The real issue that needs to be dealt with is the impending, and inevitable course change of the Mississippi that will bypass NO entirely anyway (cuts something like 150 miles off the rivers journey to the sea.) Now that is an issue that needs to be addressed

Old River

90 posted on 02/02/2006 11:49:30 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: bayourant

Babineaux is her maiden name and as you will note it is a Cajun name. She made sure to always identify herself as Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (if you'll remember, all of her signs, etc. had her entire name) so that all of the coon-asses in South Louisiana would vote for her.


91 posted on 02/02/2006 11:50:02 AM PST by half-cajun
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To: ncountylee
...New Orleans took a direct hit from Hurricane Katrina...

Nope. It was a glancing blow.

92 posted on 02/02/2006 11:50:29 AM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: half-cajun

oh yeah true. but it was interesting that she didnt caryy her home parish. Of courseI think alot of that has to deal with her husband lol


93 posted on 02/02/2006 11:51:50 AM PST by bayourant
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To: John O

ok we will take our share of the oil revenues off the coast to do it. The gov is bout to block the sales of further leases until we can get those funds. I have no problem with that. As to the River. I agree with you. In fact that might have to be the hard choice we have to make here. Of course people need to be prepared that allowing the River to run its natural course will be expensive.


94 posted on 02/02/2006 11:54:46 AM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant

Yes it is interesting, but not really surprising that she didn't win her home parish. My sister lives there and said that she didn't win there b/c they already knew enough about her. Unfortunately the rest of the state didn't.


95 posted on 02/02/2006 11:58:36 AM PST by half-cajun
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To: half-cajun

True i mean to alot of North folks thought she seemed great. Of course all the papers are controlled by Gannett so most people up here didnt realize that the people living closest to her and really knew what she was like had some major reservations. Not a word of that hit the Shreveprt times at all


96 posted on 02/02/2006 12:00:58 PM PST by bayourant
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To: bayourant
ok we will take our share of the oil revenues off the coast to do it.

Somehwat akin to the program Alaska has? Then I have no problem with it.

97 posted on 02/02/2006 12:01:35 PM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: absolootezer0

I probably should not have made that sound so harsh; my point is building against nature is IMHO not too smart.


98 posted on 02/02/2006 12:05:31 PM PST by SF Republican
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To: SF Republican

oh hey listen i know any debate on this will be spirited. My point is that sacrifices and tough calls will have to be done down hear. But in the ends this is a working coast. I just trying to alert freepers to the overall problem and that NOLA is just the tip of it.


99 posted on 02/02/2006 12:10:24 PM PST by bayourant
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To: ncountylee
The core problem was corruption at the state and local level.

Same as a company that is being ripped off from within by crooks.

Government doesn't serve the people anymore (and that includes support for the infrastructure). Get while the getting is good.

Rome fell too.

It isn't a modern phenomena although it may be the a sign of a new trend. Plenty of major cities are corrupt. And low and behold, the Rats hold a grip on the operation of many of the major metropolitan areas in America. I can't say that "Republicans" would be any more upstanding running those cities but it isn't even a consideration at this point.
100 posted on 02/02/2006 12:20:29 PM PST by weegee (Happy Holidays! Tis the season of MLK, Chinese New Year, Tet, Valentine's, Presidents...)
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