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Rumsfeld Likens Chavez's Rise to Hitler
LAS VEGAS SUN ^ | February 03, 2006 at 5:26:3 PST

Posted on 02/03/2006 5:40:36 AM PST by xzins

Rumsfeld Likens Chavez's Rise to Hitler

ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON (AP) -

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld likened Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to Adolf Hitler, reflecting continuing tension in relations between the United States and the Latin American government.

Rumsfeld, asked during a National Press Club appearance Thursday about indications of a deteriorating general relationship between Washington and parts of Latin America, said he believes such a characterization "misses the mark."

"We saw dictatorships there. And then we saw most of those countries, with the exception of Cuba, for the most part move towards democracies," he said. "We also saw corruption in that part of the world. And corruption is something that is corrosive of democracy."

The secretary acknowledged that "we've seen some populist leadership appealing to masses of people in those countries. And elections like Evo Morales in Bolivia take place that clearly are worrisome."

"I mean, we've got Chavez in Venezuela with a lot of oil money," Rumsfeld added. "He's a person who was elected legally - just as Adolf Hitler was elected legally - and then consolidated power and now is, of course, working closely with Fidel Castro and Mr. Morales and others."

There have been increasing signs of hostility between Washington and Caracas, and on Monday Chavez said Venezuela's intelligence agencies have "infiltrated" a group of military officials from the U.S. Embassy who were allegedly involved in espionage.

Venezuelan authorities, including the vice president, have accused officials at the U.S. Embassy of involvement in a spying case in which Venezuelan naval officers allegedly passed sensitive information to the Pentagon.

It was not the first such charge by Chavez.

He has accused President Bush of backing efforts to overthrow his leftist government, and specifically has charged that the United States supported a short-lived coup in 2002, fomented a devastating strike in 2004 and expelled some American missionaries from Venezuela for alleged links to the CIA.

Washington has repeatedly rejected the allegations.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chavez; chicoms; china; coldwar2; communism; cuba; rumsfeld; russia; sovietunion; ussr; venezuela
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1 posted on 02/03/2006 5:40:39 AM PST by xzins
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To: All

I have recently read that Citgo Gasoline is owned by Venezuela. Anyone know if that's true.


2 posted on 02/03/2006 5:41:37 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins
Hitler/Nazi comparisons are rarely profitable. unless you are talking about Mao or Stalin the comparison usually fails and makes the speaker look insincere or misguided.
3 posted on 02/03/2006 5:42:17 AM PST by gondramB (Democracy: two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch. Liberty: a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: xzins

"I have recently read that Citgo Gasoline is owned by Venezuela. Anyone know if that's true. "

It's true, although it wasn't always true.


4 posted on 02/03/2006 5:44:49 AM PST by gondramB (Democracy: two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch. Liberty: a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: xzins

This won't go over well with Chris Dodd and Jimmuh Carter.


5 posted on 02/03/2006 5:45:15 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: xzins
I have recently read that Citgo Gasoline is owned by Venezuela.Anyone know if that's true.

I believe it is.

6 posted on 02/03/2006 5:45:49 AM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: xzins

Yes it is true CITgo is owned by Chavez..I do not buy gas at citgo stations..but others must choose for themselves I am told Kennedy family has connections with Citgo.


7 posted on 02/03/2006 5:46:11 AM PST by ConsentofGoverned (if a sucker is born every minute, what are the voters?)
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To: gondramB

I don't remember Jimmy Carter certifying Hitler's election, but I could be wrong.


8 posted on 02/03/2006 5:46:35 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: gondramB

In debate, there's whasits rule that claims the first to bring up hitler or nazism loses the point.

This, though, is a bit different. There is no debate, and this is our SecDef making a comparison.

Hitler demonized Jews; apparently, Chavez demonizes Americans.

Is there state control of the economy in Venezuela or is there still private ownership of business?


9 posted on 02/03/2006 5:48:12 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Brilliant
"I don't remember Jimmy Carter certifying Hitler's election, but I could be wrong."

Good point. It fair to attack Chavez for undermining democracy and moving toward autocratic government and cozying up to Fidel. But it takes a lot more than that to be a Hitler.
10 posted on 02/03/2006 5:48:43 AM PST by gondramB (Democracy: two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch. Liberty: a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ConsentofGoverned

Chavez & Kennedy .... Moveon's dream ticket... :>)

Makes me want to forego Citgo.


11 posted on 02/03/2006 5:49:37 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins

"
Hitler demonized Jews; apparently, Chavez demonizes Americans. "

That's true. But Hitler did a lot more than that.


12 posted on 02/03/2006 5:50:42 AM PST by gondramB (Democracy: two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch. Liberty: a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: xzins
True.

What I will say would probably be an extraditable offense according to Chavez. He needs to be removed from office and thrown in jail with the key to be thrown away.

I have recently read that Citgo Gasoline is owned by Venezuela. Anyone know if that's true.
13 posted on 02/03/2006 5:50:42 AM PST by CORedneck
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To: gondramB

Agreed.
And then we get offended when the NAACP or somebody else likens Conservatives to Nazis.

There was only one Hitler.


14 posted on 02/03/2006 5:51:19 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: xzins
Snip.....

Venezuela has substantial investments in the United States as well. These investments include PDVSA’s ownership of CITGO which is the third largest refiner in the United States. Investments also include joint ventures that PDVSA has with Amerada Hess and ExxonMobil. These joint ventures own and operate major refineries in the U.S. Virgin Islands and Chalmette, Louisiana, respectively.

The United States is Venezuela’s primary energy export market; we deeply value the energy relationship between our two countries. Venezuela’s Successful and Rapid Recovery in 2003 In late 2002 and early 2003, the reliability and dependability of the Venezuelan energy sector was, unfortunately, threatened. Restoring PDVSA to its earlier production levels in a sustainable – and safe – manner presented enormous challenges. We have successfully met those challenges. In 2003 alone, PDVSA hired 6,000 new employees.

We restored our production and our refining operations quickly and fully. In fact, we did it in record time, without damaging any of our oil reservoirs. We are extremely proud that our exports of crude oil to the United States reached their highest level in December 2003. With 1.44 million barrels per day exported to the United States, Venezuelan oil now accounts for more than 15 percent of all oil imports to the United States.

Statement of the Embassy of Venezuela Before the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
15 posted on 02/03/2006 5:51:21 AM PST by jer33 3
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To: xzins

"Rumsfeld Likens Chavez's Rise to Hitler"

I'll worry about it when he invades Poland.


16 posted on 02/03/2006 5:52:46 AM PST by BadAndy (The DemocRATs are the enemy's most effective weapon.)
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To: xzins
From the Citgo corporate website:

Headquartered in Houston, Texas, CITGO is owned by PDV America, Inc., an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA), the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.
17 posted on 02/03/2006 5:53:44 AM PST by rightwingintelligentsia
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To: xzins

Let me know when Chavez starts rounding up Americans, putting them into cattle cars, and sending them to death camps.

Hitler wasn't known for demonizing the Jews, he was known for exterminating them, to the tune of 6 million.

Frankly, it (IMHO) makes Rumsfeld look ignorant of 20th century history.


18 posted on 02/03/2006 5:54:14 AM PST by dmz
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To: gondramB
Hitler did a lot more than that

True, and all Rumsfeld has compared (so far) is Hitler's RISE to that of Chavez.

Government control of business, demonization/scapegoating of an "enemy," and elevation of an elite were some of the hallmarks of national socialism/fascism. Chavez probably learned from his ba'athist mid-east friends in the oil cartel.

19 posted on 02/03/2006 5:54:26 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins

Its a subsidiary of the Venezuelan state oil company.


20 posted on 02/03/2006 5:59:14 AM PST by Nextrush (The Chris Matthews Band: "I get high..I get high...I get high..McCain.")
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To: BadAndy

How about border skirmishes with neighboring S. American countries.






BOGOTA, Sept. 8 (UPI) -- Colombia is investigating instances of Venezuelan air force planes entering its airspace to cover left-wing Colombia guerrillas who were retreating into sanctuaries across the border, internal government documents obtained by United Press International show.

The Colombian army is investigating more than a dozen reported Venezuelan military incursions to aid narco-guerrillas of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, in their decades-long struggle against Colombia's U.S.-backed government and right-wing paramilitaries.

The most serious clash took place March 21.

Some diplomats say Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez may want to pick a fight with Colombia to deflect the attention of his armed forces from the country's escalating political crisis. He is strongly resisting pressures from his right-wing led opposition for a referendum on his presidency.

Although the existence of FARC bases inside Venezuela has been known for some time, the participation of Venezuelan military units in combat operations has not been fully disclosed until now.

Chavez denied charges made earlier this year by Colombian Defense Minister Marta Ramirez that Venezuelan aircraft were attacking Colombian territory. But witnesses, including a guerrilla defector, have since confirmed the accusations. A member of FARC testified that his 150-man guerrilla column has been operating from safe havens in Venezuela with the full support of that country's armed forces for their cross-border raids, according to records of official investigations that have been leaked to UPI.

The 10-page special investigation was presented May 16 to Colombian Attorney General Luis Camilo Osorio Isaza. Copies are also with the Foreign and Defense ministries.

"We were inside Colombian territory when two fighter planes and four helicopters coming in from Venezuela flew over our position to shoot up paras trying to surround us," said FARC defector Juan Bautista Ramirez Lopez in the 10-page testimony. He said the Venezuelan warplanes bombed a nearby airstrip and strafed local farms with machine-gun fire.

Ramirez's account was corroborated by more than a dozen local residents along the border region of Hoya del Catatumbo, whose homes and vehicles were damaged in the air attacks. A farmer, Juan Gutierrez Rincon, said he saw four helicopters with Venezuelan air force markings firing at the ground around him and two fighter planes flying over his home to drop bombs on targets less than 1.2 miles away where heavy fighting was taking place. His testimony also appeared in the report.

Ballistic tests, cited in the report, showed that bullet holes on the roofs of
http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?StoryID=20030908-075735-2592r


21 posted on 02/03/2006 6:00:52 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia
Citgo....wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA), the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

That settles that, doesn't it? Thanks.

22 posted on 02/03/2006 6:02:15 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: dmz

Again, Rusfeld used the word "rise." He compared Chavez to Hitler's RISE.

And, yes, Hitler demonized Jews long before he acted against them. The date of Kristalnacht....November 1938....was the official beginning of the pogrom.

The issue is similar tactics and behavior during the "rise."


23 posted on 02/03/2006 6:05:50 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: dmz

Chavez is doing what Hitler did in 1933 and 1934, using his democratic election to consolidate power, persecute opponents etc. Try the V-Crisis website for some perspective on this. There will be elections in Venezuela later this year. They will look a lot less free than the previous ones moving in the direction of a one party election which is what happened to elections in Germany in the 1933-34 period. Its a good comparison for Rumsfeld to make. Hitler was a lot more than the Holocaust, although its his most notorious act. There's an old book called "Berlin Diary" by William L. Shirer, not to mention his large book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." Both books give perspective on the tactics and philosophy of Hitler and the Nazis that are replicated all over the world today from Islamofascist countries to the mainstream media in the United States to Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.


24 posted on 02/03/2006 6:08:26 AM PST by Nextrush (The Chris Matthews Band: "I get high..I get high...I get high..McCain.")
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To: Nextrush

By that definition, there are more than a few folks out there "like Hitler". Why is Rumsfeld using it only on Chavez, and not Castro, or Hamas, or any of the others.

It absolutely dilutes the horror of the 3rd Reich. Mein Kampf was published in 1925, well before Hitler's rise. He pretty much laid out his intentions re: the Jews in that book.



25 posted on 02/03/2006 6:21:14 AM PST by dmz
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To: xzins

Lots of countries have border dieputes. Invoking Hitler or Nazis with regard to some pipsqueak banana republic is ridiculous.


26 posted on 02/03/2006 6:33:47 AM PST by BadAndy (The DemocRATs are the enemy's most effective weapon.)
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To: xzins

Next thing ya know, we'll start getting blasted daily about how dangerous Venezuela is, they are harboring terrorists and nukes, axis of evil, most dangerous, etc, and we have to attack, in order to make them democratic.


27 posted on 02/03/2006 6:53:43 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: ConsentofGoverned

Citgo gas is all there is on the navy bases in the Norfolk area. It's just about the only gas I buy, 'cause it's cheaper and more convenient.


28 posted on 02/03/2006 6:56:03 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: xzins

That would be Godwin's Law.


29 posted on 02/03/2006 7:12:15 AM PST by Ultra Sonic 007 (Hitler and Stalin have nothing on Abortion)
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To: stuartcr

chavez was elected saying he would use oil revenues to benefit the poor. However, poverty has increased from 45% to 55% during his rule. This week he unilaterally increased the state take on oil. He has expropriated idle businesses and land for redistribution. Florida is full of refugees. People with money have escaped creating a brain and capital drain. As his mentor is Castro, I think his inspiration is communist, not Nazi.


30 posted on 02/03/2006 7:20:45 AM PST by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: ClaireSolt

OK


31 posted on 02/03/2006 7:25:58 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Brilliant
Hitler was never elected to anything, period. The Nazis never achieved a majority in the German legislature, although they did on three occasions achieve a plurality.

Weimar election results

Hitler became Kanzler by appointment from von Hindenburg on 30 January 1933, in what was supposed to be a compromise coalition government with Franz von Papen, a former failed PM, serving as vice-chancellor. That arrangement lasted about 18 months, by which time von Hindenburg had died and Roehm's SA had eliminated the majority of Hitler's opponents' leadership, then was himself killed on Hitler's orders.

That the myth of Hitler's ''election'' is so persistent is absolutely astonishing. One would think that a smart chap like Rummy had read his history at some point. Guess not.

32 posted on 02/03/2006 7:30:06 AM PST by SAJ
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To: xzins

articles and commentary on chavez:

http://www.neoperspectives.com/chavez.htm


33 posted on 02/03/2006 7:50:21 AM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/israel_palestine_conflict.htm)
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To: SAJ
That the myth of Hitler's ''election'' is so persistent is absolutely astonishing.

Why? In a parliamentary system with a multide of parties (Weimar Germany being one example), ruling parties are seldom in an outright majority. They build a coalition with other parties and the now majority group gets to govern. Hitler got to the post of Chancellor the way any other Weimar politician would have, that is be part of the governing coalition where the deal includes giving the post of Chancellor to that politician.

Hitler's plurality (the largest one at the time) would have made it undemocratic not to include the Nazis or to ask him and his party to attempt to form a government. It would have been the right thing to do, but uncustomary and discriminatory.

Personally, what I find astonishing are those who continue to try to spin Hitler's election as not being "real." Hitler was as elected as anyone can be in a parliamentary system with a fragmented electorate giving rise to many, many parties.

34 posted on 02/03/2006 8:06:26 AM PST by ExpandNATO
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To: xzins

Venezuela takes over 32 privately operated oilfields ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550432/posts

Venezuela's Oil Workers Moving On (Is Chavez driving PDVSA into the ground?) ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1528254/posts

Chávez's socialism won't help Latin America; free trade will ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1518620/posts

Venezuela threatens to take over mines (Commie Alert) ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1564432/posts

Venezuela: Seizing corn meal an option [price controls and communism] ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1559894/posts

Has Citgo become a political tool for Hugo Chavez ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1557253/posts

Venezuala proposes 'Bank of the South' (Crazy Eddy Chavez at it again) ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1557235/posts

Venezuelan shoppers face food shortages (classis case of socialism failing) ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1555884/posts

Venezuela, Bolivia to Discuss Oil Issues-(Nationalization or eminent domain) ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1551356/posts

Venezuela's coffee industry in chaos as price of beans doubles ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1556155/posts

Chavez (Venezuelan dictatar) Threatens Exxon ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543910/posts

Venezuela jails opposition leader ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1539882/posts

Unholy Trinity: CITGO, Kennedy, and International Terrorism ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1533302/posts

Chavez Announces Wage Hike in Venezuela ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1570756/posts

Chavez: Venezuela sees oil income boost ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1561910/posts


35 posted on 02/03/2006 8:09:49 AM PST by eyespysomething (For you to insult me, I must first value your opinion.)
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To: xzins

Oh Rummy, haven't you heard of Hitlerum ad absurdum?


36 posted on 02/03/2006 9:07:28 AM PST by Conservomax (There are no solutions, only trade-offs.)
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To: xzins

And we should traat him as a Hitler wannabee and remove his pathetic carcass from power.


37 posted on 02/03/2006 10:25:50 AM PST by pissant
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To: All

I'm becoming more convinced that either Cheney is getting old and senile or he thinks the average American is old and senile; neither of these is good. I mean 'Hitler' references, for crying out loud?

Can't he try something original? Maybe Nero? Calugula? Ghenguis Kahn? Hell, maybe even Sadaam! I mean there are plenty of tyrants to choose from when it comes to cheap similies to throw around the debate. Personally, I think you're a retard if you stoop that low, but if you must do it, Dick, come up with a new one.



38 posted on 02/03/2006 10:32:04 AM PST by Incitatus
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To: Incitatus

The article was talking about a comment by Rummy..not Cheney.....(snif-snif)


39 posted on 02/03/2006 10:53:45 AM PST by penelopesire
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To: jer33 3
[Quoting your source] We have successfully met those challenges. In 2003 alone, PDVSA hired 6,000 new employees.

What he doesn't tell you is that that hiring was necessitated by political purges of the previous PDVSA workforce.

They're honest people, and Chavez's political goons reamed them -- and nobody in the U.S. press/MSM peeped about it. They'd have screamed bloody murder if ExxonMobil or Amerada had carried through a bloodless purge of their U.S. workforces, targeting Democrats and minorities.

Chavez wants to use PDVSA, and everything else he has got, to screw with the United States. He hates our guts going all the way back to when he was a leftist punk with a gun, back in the early 60's. He's totally hardcore. He gave Osama Bin Laden $1 million just as a business card to get Osama's attention, after 9/11, because Chavez admired Bin Laden's attack.

40 posted on 02/03/2006 10:59:07 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: xzins
Chavez is more like Allende, the Chilean president elected in 1970. Both leftist leaders were elected democratically, but then they dedicated all their energy to destroy the democratic institutions that existed previously to their elections.

Nixon knew that democratically-elected demagogues who want to subvert the democratic process must be stopped. Therefore, Nixon supported the coup against Allende.

Unlike Nixon, President Bush missed a golden opportunity by refusing to support the coup against Chavez in 2002. We will pay dearly for years to come for this political misjudgment.

Imagine if Hillary gets elected, packs the US Supreme Court with 10 Justices loyal to her, and starts acting like a dictator. Every time she's taken to court, the US Supreme Court sides with her. There is nothing to be done to stop her under the political landscape created by her machinations.

Concerned about the destruction of our Republic, a group of military officers put Hillary in prison and create a national unity government until elections can be held. Nevertheless, all our foreign allies side with Hillary, and she's restored to power.

How pathetic that would be. That's the way I see the Bush administration's failure to support the anti-Chavez coup.

Now there is little hope of ever getting rid of Chavez, since he has 'amended' the Venezuelan constitution to guarantee his power until his death, the Venezuelan Supreme Court is full of Chavez' appointees, and the military leadership has been cleansed of any anti-Chavez leaders.

41 posted on 02/03/2006 11:00:38 AM PST by george wythe
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To: stuartcr
Read my last. It has already started, and Chavez started it.

He gave money to Bin Laden.

42 posted on 02/03/2006 11:01:59 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Incitatus
The obvious comparison is to Castro, before whose herm Chavez has groveled burning incense all his adult life.
43 posted on 02/03/2006 11:05:22 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: xzins
With all due respect to Rummy, I believe a comparison to Lenin and his merry band of Bolsheviks would be more apt.

After all, Chavez is a communist who is always rambling-ranting-raving about the bourgeoisie and the evils of capitalism.

hmmm, how do you say "Power To The Proletariat!" in Spanish?


¡Energía Al Proletariado!

44 posted on 02/03/2006 11:10:39 AM PST by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: xzins

In the not-too-distant future everyone on earth will have been characterized as Hitler. The avant-garde should start looking for a fresh metaphor any day now.


45 posted on 02/03/2006 11:13:43 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: xzins

I am disappointed in Rumsfeld. Hitler was not elected. He was appointed because Von Papen wanted to get back at Kurt Von Schleicher. Von Papen thought Hitler could be controlled. But in the election before Hitler's ascendency to the Chancellorship, the Nazis actually lost votes, and they were never close to a majority.


46 posted on 02/03/2006 11:13:46 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: lentulusgracchus

I bet there are lots that have given money to Bin Laden, that we are not reacting this way to.


47 posted on 02/03/2006 11:22:27 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: xzins

Can you ping me to the thread where Chavez has his unhinged response? It's a-comin'.


48 posted on 02/03/2006 11:23:01 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: xzins
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld likened Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to Adolf Hitler,

Guess that means Mother Sheeham is cavorting with Hitler. AND yet she wants to meet with the WH Hitler - I am confused. /sarcasm

49 posted on 02/03/2006 11:45:17 AM PST by p23185 (Why isn't attempting to take down a sitting Pres & his Admin during wartime considered Sedition?)
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To: ConsentofGoverned
I am told Kennedy family has connections with Citgo.

Well isn't that special - a Keenedy connected with the new Hitler.

50 posted on 02/03/2006 11:46:24 AM PST by p23185 (Why isn't attempting to take down a sitting Pres & his Admin during wartime considered Sedition?)
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