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Got that synching feeling? Read my lips...(Union may force pop stars to admit they're lip-synching)
Reuters ^ | 2/03/06 | By Paul Majendie

Posted on 02/04/2006 1:06:28 PM PST by sully777

LONDON (Reuters) - After an infamous tiff between Elton John and Madonna over lip-synching, Britain's Musicians' Union has called on performers to come clean -- audiences should be told if they are miming rather than singing.

The union is urging promoters, producers and artists to back its campaign for lip-synching to be clearly labeled during TV shows, in pop arenas and on stage.

"Stand up and be honest about it. We won't knock you for using recordings," said union spokesman Keith Ames, wearied by the sight of bands with miming singers backed by guitarists going through the motions to a recorded track.

"If we are going to sell British music around the world, we cannot go out without a genuine product. You cannot sell artificiality to the Europeans and the Americans. They will see through it immediately."

The union suggested that a lip-synching logo could be flashed up on television or on posters and tickets for shows.

"This campaign is to reward performers who have the talent to perform live and give it a human edge," Ames said. "In a funny sort of way, people like the odd bum note. It gives them a sense of the moment."

He stressed that the union was in no way opposed to the use of technology, especially in smaller theatres where the producers could not afford to pay for a full orchestra.

"This is about consumers knowing what they are buying into," he said.

The issue hit the headlines when British pop veteran Elton John took a swipe at Madonna, saying she cheated her fans by miming on stage.

Collecting a song-writing award in 2004, he suddenly launched into a tirade against Madonna when he discovered she had been nominated for Best Live Act.

"Anyone who lip-synchs in public on stage when you pay 75 pounds to see them should be shot," John said. Madonna swiftly denied lip-synching and pointedly said she did not spend her time trashing other artists.

The union campaign was launched on BBC Television's "The Culture Show" with a poll showing that 71 percent of those questioned backed its stance.

The campaign has also won backing from singer Beverley Knight who told the program: "What I can't bear more than anything are those who are more than capable of delivering a show live with musicians and the whole thing and who don't."

Malcolm McClaren, former manager of the Sex Pistols, agreed, complaining "There isn't enough authenticity in the pop industry. It is karaoke culture."

But Faye Tozer, a singer with the now disbanded pop group Steps, defended lip-synching that helped them cope with a punishing schedule. "We did it to get our product out," she said.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: ashleysimpson; buyerbeware; fake; honest; lipsynch; liveormemorex; millivanilli; moneysworth; thenamesashleeeeee; whoozamusician
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I've seen a number of concerts in my life. All of them were performed live--mistakes and all. I paid money to see musicians play and even improvise. I don't spend good money for a mime. If I wanted a mime, I'd go to the park for free with my i-Pod.
1 posted on 02/04/2006 1:06:32 PM PST by sully777
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To: sully777

What was the Elton John/Madonna tiff?


2 posted on 02/04/2006 1:08:58 PM PST by lawnguy (Give me some of your tots!!!)
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To: lawnguy
What was the Elton John/Madonna tiff?

Maybe they were arguing over who was more feminine.

3 posted on 02/04/2006 1:15:14 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: sully777

If you're going to do that, they should also admit to using pitch-correction devices live and in the recording studio. It's laughable how many "singers" out there can actually sing.


4 posted on 02/04/2006 1:17:46 PM PST by manic4organic (We won. Get over it.)
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To: sully777

So much for Ashlee Simpson's career.


5 posted on 02/04/2006 1:19:24 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: lawnguy

Elton Feels Love for Madge
http://launch.yahoo.com/read/news/12177667
10/28/2004 7:35 PM, E! Online
Charlie Amter

Can you feel the love tonight?

It looks like Elton John is finally ready to apologize to Madonna after recently calling out the Material Girl for lip-synching.

"I don't want to escalate it because I like Madonna," the 57-year-old singer-songwriter tells the Nov. 6 issue of Entertainment Weekly. "She's been to my house for dinner. It was something that was said in the heat of the moment, and probably should not have been said."

John's barbed comments, made Oct. 4 at a London music awards show, sparked headlines around the world--causing many to wonder if John had a feud with Madonna.

However, John feels that uproar over his comments were overblown by the media.

"The reaction to it was so hysterical," he says. "It was like I said, 'I think all gays should be killed or I think Hitler was right.' I just said someone was lip-synching. I'm not afraid to speak my mind. I'm not going to mellow with age. I get more enraged about things as I get older because you see that these injustices go on."

Elton further explained the incident recently on a New Zealand television show. On the show, the Brit confessed he made his remarks because "I have a bee in my bonnet about live shows."

"It was in the context of a very drunken lunch. Sometimes when you say something and then it's written down on paper, it looks totally different," he offered up in his defense.

Still, the "Candle in the Wind" singer apparently wishes to set the record straight with his pal, sometimes known as Esther.

"Would I apologize to her if I saw her?" says John in EW. "Yeah, because I don't want to hurt any artist's feelings. It was my fault. I instigated the whole thing. But it applies to all those bloody teenage singers."

Only John could manage to offend more singers with an apology to one. By "bloody teenage singers," we can only assume John's is referring to recent lip-synching champion Ashlee Simpson --who was just busted big time on Saturday Night Live for using vocal tracks. (The latest development: a 60 Minutes camera crew happened to be backstage during the SNL meltdown and captured the reaction; the segment will air on this week's installment.) Or perhaps he means Britney Spears . Regardless, John's new statements prove the "Bitch Is Back" singer can still bitch with the best of 'em.

For her part, Madonna is apparently not losing much sleep over the comments, or the forthcoming mea culpa.

Shortly after John's dissing, Madonna's spokeswoman, Liz Rosenberg, released a statement saying the pop queen "does not lip-synch nor does she spend her time trashing other artists."

However, Rosenberg revealed that Madonna doesn't hold a grudge against comments made by a loose-lipped John.

"Elton John remains on her Christmas card list whether he is nice...or naughty," Rosenberg said.

John certainly didn't feel the need to hold back on his opinions of the Taiwanese media last month. He caused an arguably much bigger uproar Sept. 23 when he called Taiwanese paparazzi "rude, vile pigs."

John apologized to the Taiwanese people for his comments at his concert the next night in Taipei--but the singer did not withdraw the comments directed towards the shutterbugs.

John's new release, Peachtree Road, drops Nov. 9.


6 posted on 02/04/2006 1:23:00 PM PST by sully777 (What would Brian Boitano do?)
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To: sully777
I pay good money specifically to see musicians improvise. If I want to hear it performed like the record, I'll listen to the record.

There is nothing, IMHO, like hearing music at the moment it is being made, warts and all.

Of course, the fact that I'm in a band playing out a few times a month (and making our fair share of mistakes) may have something to do with my outlook.

7 posted on 02/04/2006 1:24:15 PM PST by dmz
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To: sully777

Some would first have to admit it to themselves.


8 posted on 02/04/2006 1:27:44 PM PST by n230099
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To: dmz

The only time I want lip-synching and air guitar is when the sods are totally drunk/drugged like the Ozzie concert I saw at the Nassau Coliseum. Ozzie truly sucked that night. Thankfully, Queensryche made up the difference as the opening act.


9 posted on 02/04/2006 1:28:58 PM PST by sully777 (What would Brian Boitano do?)
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To: n230099

%100 agree with the proposal. Who wants to see anyone sing to a pre recorded tape ? Saw CREAM in NYC ..No gimmicks ..3 guys with talent playing and singing..Thats music ..


10 posted on 02/04/2006 1:31:41 PM PST by binkdeville
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To: sully777

I've walked out on a few headliners for just that reason. Steven Stills in the late 70's comes to mind. If I had wanted to see a coked out guy play bad notes on guitar all night, I could have stayed in the dorm.


11 posted on 02/04/2006 1:42:59 PM PST by dmz
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To: sully777

How many bands mix the bass & drums waaay up to carry them because they can't cut it on guitar anymore? How's that any different?

I'm talking legendary guys too. But, I don't wanna start a fight by naming names.


12 posted on 02/04/2006 1:44:10 PM PST by AlexandriaDuke
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To: dmz

Wow! That's EXACTLY the first guy I was thinking of!


13 posted on 02/04/2006 1:45:20 PM PST by AlexandriaDuke
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To: dfwgator
So much for Ashlee Simpson's career.

Within a week of her SNL fiasco, Simpson performed "live" at another televised event --this time without the aid of pre-recorded tracks or pitch correcting devices. Oh, it was terrible! That girl has no talent whatsoever.

14 posted on 02/04/2006 1:49:08 PM PST by Drew68
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To: AlexandriaDuke
I'm talking legendary guys too. But, I don't wanna start a fight by naming names.

Oh, c'mon! Spit it out! This guitar-slinging FReeper wants to know who you think can't cut it anymore.

15 posted on 02/04/2006 1:50:50 PM PST by Drew68
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To: lawnguy
"What was the Elton John/Madonna tiff?"

Who looks better in a teddy.

16 posted on 02/04/2006 1:53:53 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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To: Drew68; AlexandriaDuke

LOL. I'm with Drew on this, name names so we can make it a really contentious thread (read: fun and exciting).

Let me start, Drew, anybody using humbuckers rather than single coils is just an overdriven, distorted wannabe.

Just kidding. I'm more a Tele guy myself.


17 posted on 02/04/2006 1:57:17 PM PST by dmz
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To: Drew68

Back in the late 70s, I saw Stills about 10 times and it was the same every time, "I can barely hear him! Why does he only do those BB King riffs? Why does the rest of the band drown him out?" But, I saw him with CSNY a few times 2000-2002 and he played great!

I saw the Stones in Chile about 10 years ago. They'd play the opening riffs then go chat while the rhythm section and Mick performed. I suppose they were playing along, but you couldn't hear them. Nice gig if you can get it!


18 posted on 02/04/2006 2:05:22 PM PST by AlexandriaDuke
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To: dmz

LMFAO


19 posted on 02/04/2006 2:10:04 PM PST by My Favorite Headache ("Scientology is dangerous stuff,it's like forming a religion based around Johnny Quest and Haji.")
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To: dmz
Let me start, Drew, anybody using humbuckers rather than single coils is just an overdriven, distorted wannabe.

Just kidding. I'm more a Tele guy myself.

I have a Tele. Fun guitar. Strats too. And Les Pauls. I love them all. They all have their place and their own unique sound. Billy Corgan coaxed some hellacious distortion from his single coiled Stratocaster. As did Kurt Cobain.

When Cream reunited I was a little disheartened to see Clapton take the stage with his Stratocaster. I was hoping that for the sake of authenticity he'd pull an old 335 or SG out of retirement. Later I read in an interview that Clapton and bassist Jack Bruce rehearsed with their old Gibsons and 100 watt Marshall stacks but were simply unable to get the nuanced sound they were looking for from their old instruments. They knew many in their audience would notice the absence of Marshall stacks and be a bit let down but they figured that a well-rehearsed and tight sound would make up for the loss.

20 posted on 02/04/2006 2:13:03 PM PST by Drew68
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To: AlexandriaDuke
But, I saw him with CSNY a few times 2000-2002 and he played great!

Saw CSNY also in 2000 and I was blown away. Neil Young stole the show hands down but all four of them sounded great. Sobriety appears to do wonders.

I hear what you're saying about the Stones. I love the Stones but so much of their live work just doesn't sound good --like they're simply going through the motions. There's no soul.

21 posted on 02/04/2006 2:16:49 PM PST by Drew68
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To: sully777
"The union suggested that a lip-synching logo ..."

Like this?


22 posted on 02/04/2006 2:20:59 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (")
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To: sully777

23 posted on 02/04/2006 2:23:05 PM PST by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans. We Vote.)
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To: sully777

24 posted on 02/04/2006 2:23:06 PM PST by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans. We Vote.)
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To: binkdeville

"Saw CREAM in NYC .."

Drool... I bought the Prince Albert Hall DVDs. Ginger Baker looks better today than he did 37 years ago. They are still among the greatest musicians of their era. If anything, Jack Bruce is better than he was in 1969.


25 posted on 02/04/2006 2:27:19 PM PST by Poser (Willing to fight for oil)
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To: DuncanWaring
What was the Elton John/Madonna tiff?
Maybe they were arguing over who was more feminine.

No contest, Elton John wins hands down.

26 posted on 02/04/2006 2:28:04 PM PST by fedupjohn (If we try to fight the war on terror with eyes shut + ears packed with wax, innocent people will die)
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To: ChadGore

Milli Vanilli fall into a special category. Not only did they not sing live, they didn't even sing on their records.


27 posted on 02/04/2006 2:30:21 PM PST by Wolfie
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To: Drew68

Clap may have sold all those old axes, didn't he auction a bunch off recently?

LOL. I overdrive my Marshall acoustic amp with a Tacoma M1e mandolin and get some crunch with just one of those Fishman preamps in between.

I see you have GAS also.






28 posted on 02/04/2006 2:34:21 PM PST by dmz
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To: sully777

In general, what we're talking about here is the teenybopper boy bands and pop tarts. These are more dance shows than concerts, and the bubblegummers who actually buy this stuff don't care if its lip-synced. They want to see the dance steps from the video.


29 posted on 02/04/2006 2:35:13 PM PST by Wolfie
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To: sully777

I haven't seen a stadium/arena concert in almost 20 years. I won't pay a nickel to see a live act in a venue larger than a 500-seat auditorium.


30 posted on 02/04/2006 2:38:29 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Leave a message with the rain . . . you can find me where the wind blows.)
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To: AlexandriaDuke

Equally heinous are triggered drums.


31 posted on 02/04/2006 2:41:01 PM PST by Wolfie
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To: sully777

Judy Garland lip-synched through every movie. As does every singer in the musicals. TV singing bits are taped or lip-synched. Its been going on since talkies were introduced. Vertually every TV live performance is Lip-Synced. If it sounds good, its not live.


32 posted on 02/04/2006 2:46:05 PM PST by poinq
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To: Poser; binkdeville

Jethro Tull, as I recall, had a fine live act in the 70's.


33 posted on 02/04/2006 2:46:26 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: dmz

Gibson Les Paul Custom player of many,many years.......recently (late last year for my 50th birthday/Christmas present) got a Carvin DC400 anniversary model; prettiest quilted maple you've ever seen. Amazing electronics, playability. Gorgeous instrument. EVERYONE's jaws just drop when they see it....

sigh.....................................the 'warmth' I'm used to from the Paul just......isn't.........there


34 posted on 02/04/2006 3:31:26 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: dmz
I see you have GAS also.

Guitar Acquisition Syndrome? LOL! Yes I do. Sadly I've had to quit buying gear for a while as I just got married. Gibson Les Paul vs. new wife. Hmmm... Tough call.

35 posted on 02/04/2006 3:53:08 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Wolfie
Equally heinous are triggered drums.

The only person who is allowed to use triggered drums is Def Leppard's Rick Allen and that's because he only has one arm.

36 posted on 02/04/2006 3:56:07 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

The only person who is allowed to use triggered drums is Def Leppard's Rick Allen and that's because he only has one arm.



Who is Def Leppard? STR a band with that name. I recently heard a remake of a Bad Finger song from a group pretending to be Def Leppard. At first I thought it was some teen band. If it was the same band I remember, what the hell happened to that AC/DC sound from High and Dry? JMO, Bad Finger's Baby Blue would have been a better choice.

BTW, best concert I saw was Steve Vy with DLR's band. Got more than my money's worth from the moment I took the PATH to Madison Square Garden to home the next morning.


37 posted on 02/04/2006 4:30:11 PM PST by sully777 (What would Brian Boitano do?)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

Aqualung and Stairway to Heaven soured me on both bands. I got so sick of those songs that I couldn't listen anymore. Of course, I'm one of those lucky (?) people who got to see some very good bands at Woodstock.

I also saw Johnny Winter and Janice Joplin together in Rindge, New Hampshire and Jefferson Airplane at Keene State College.

The single best concert I ever saw was Roy Buchanan at Symphony Hall in Boston. Roy could taunt the audience with his guitar playing. Grand Funk Railroad's red album tour and Ten Years After at the Boston Garden tied for a close second.

I haven't been to a live concert since Georgia Satellites in the middle 1980s. Since Frank Zappa died, there's nobody I want to see. Had I know about Cream, I would have been there. I learned about the concert about a week before it happened.


38 posted on 02/04/2006 7:41:59 PM PST by Poser (Willing to fight for oil)
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To: sully777
If it was the same band I remember, what the hell happened to that AC/DC sound from High and Dry?

Producer Mutt Lange has moved on.

39 posted on 02/04/2006 8:06:16 PM PST by Wolfie
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To: Wolfie

I believe you are correct: Mutt Lange moved onward!

http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=shania+twain&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi


40 posted on 02/04/2006 10:40:20 PM PST by sully777 (What would Brian Boitano do?)
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To: Drew68

I see your new wife either has a tremendous sense of humor or she doesn't see your posts on FR.

Bought a new axe today, a solid mahogany small body acoustic, had absolutely no intention of doing so, but had to walk into a shop in town. It was either that or the Fender Newporter he had on the wall.

Been married nearly 17 years now. Wife shakes her head a lot.


41 posted on 02/05/2006 2:39:45 PM PST by dmz
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To: dfwgator; Drew68
I read some comment about that time that said Simpson was doing physical damage to her vocal chords with her style of "singing".

Not that I keep up with what claims to music nowadays, but I couldn't recognize an Ashlee Simpson song for a million
dollar prize, let alone name one.

My limited impression is that she's a Joan Jett wannabe.

42 posted on 02/05/2006 2:49:37 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: sully777
The only time I want lip-synching and air guitar is when the sods are totally drunk/drugged like the Ozzie concert I saw at the Nassau Coliseum. Ozzie truly sucked that night. Thankfully, Queensryche made up the difference as the opening act.

I saw Elton John in concert just a couple of months ago. There were a LOT of l-o-n-g intros and piano interludes to try to hide the fact that he just doesn't have the endurance he had as a younger man. I'd prefer it that way to a tape.

43 posted on 02/05/2006 3:07:35 PM PST by Dianna
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To: Calvin Locke
My limited impression is that she's a Joan Jett wannabe.

Heavens no. Joan Jett could actually sing, play the guitar and write her own music (some songs which were actually quite catchy). Simpson plays no instruments, writes none of her own songs and her singing is so computer enhanced that makes her natural voice all but unrecognizable.

44 posted on 02/05/2006 3:18:07 PM PST by Drew68
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To: binkdeville
%100 agree with the proposal. Who wants to see anyone sing to a pre recorded tape ? Saw CREAM in NYC ..No gimmicks ..3 guys with talent playing and singing..Thats music ..

No, but there are some times where a band simply can't perform the music from a studio album with their live band. There just aren't enough people there to do it. Peter Gabriel is an example of that. He doesn't lip sync, and his band performs live, but during some songs they're playing along to a tape of prerecorded background music.

Unfortunately, sometimes that's the only way to actually get the feel of the original music. The only time I've ever seen a group add the additional musicians they needed for a live show was Pink Floyd's "The Wall" tour, when I saw them in New York. There were two full bands playing that night.

Mark

45 posted on 02/05/2006 3:28:10 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: dmz
Let me start, Drew, anybody using humbuckers rather than single coils is just an overdriven, distorted wannabe.

Yeah! Like these guys!

The first three sometimes USE overdrive or distortion, but somehow I don't think any could be called "wanna-bes." And certainly, the late Mr. Atkins wouldn't fall into any of those categories, would he? Should I continue? lol

Mark

46 posted on 02/05/2006 3:38:43 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: Poser
If anything, Jack Bruce is better than he was in 1969.

I hope so! He's had 36 years to practice! lol

Mark

PS, at trivia question... Who was the opening act at the Farewell Concert of Cream? Yes!

47 posted on 02/05/2006 3:41:40 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: Alberta's Child
I haven't seen a stadium/arena concert in almost 20 years. I won't pay a nickel to see a live act in a venue larger than a 500-seat auditorium.

I haven't been to a concert in I don't know how long... I really wanted to see Yes when they come to KC some years ago, but I had to work...

The last really great concert I went to was Paul Simon's Graceland tour, at Radio City Music Hall. It was amazing.

Hey, for any Kansas Citians, just a heads up... Bela Fleck and the Flecktones will be playing at the Uptown Theater at the end of March. I'd love to go to that concert. Huge fan of Bela and Victor here!

Mark

48 posted on 02/05/2006 3:45:13 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: Drew68
The only person who is allowed to use triggered drums is Def Leppard's Rick Allen and that's because he only has one arm.

And Bill Bruford... Because he's Bill Bruford!

Mark

49 posted on 02/05/2006 3:47:03 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: Poser
I bought the Prince Albert Hall DVDs. Ginger Baker looks better today than he did 37 years ago.

I totally agree, and he played great, too. I saw Cream in Baltimore in 1968 and I enjoyed Ginger Baker more this time around.

50 posted on 02/05/2006 3:51:39 PM PST by SupplySider
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