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Cover-ups of Mexican military border crossings anger agents [Where's W?]
http://dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3437738 ^

Posted on 02/06/2006 9:01:41 AM PST by bikepacker67

Some officials suggested Wednesday that the confrontation between Texas law officers earlier this week was with drug smugglers, not Mexican soldiers assisting narcotics traffickers across the Rio Grande.

But a Border Patrol agent who spoke on condition of anonymity said continuous cover-ups by Mexican and U.S. officials have put many agents and American lives in danger.

"I think it shows how desperate the situation has become. I think it's insulting to expect Americans to believe what (Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael) Chertoff and the Mexican government are saying," the agent said Wednesday.

"Isn't it the most reasonable explanation that if men are dressed as soldiers, with military vehicles and mounted machine guns that these guys are soldiers - not some cartel trying to ruin diplomatic relations?"

Photos of what appeared to be Mexican troops in the United States during Monday's incident shocked many Americans, although Mexico officials denied the military was involved.

But to most Mexicans it just offered further proof that drug traffickers run rampant in the border area in military-style vehicles, wearing uniforms and, in some cases, using military firepower.

"It is known that these are drug traffickers using military uniforms and they were not even regulation military uniforms," said Mexican presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar.

T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, said that he was insulted by the U.S. government's lack of response to the serious nature of the incursions.

"I don't believe they are rogue elements because of the markings of the vehicles and because of the insignias on their uniforms and further we've caught them in the past," Bonner said.

"Mexico is being less than honest with us. I don't understand what the U.S. interest is in aiding and abetting what is going on at the border. I don't have faith that it will stop before some of our law enforcement officers are murdered in the line of duty."

A U.S. law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said the FBI and other agencies found no evidence the uniformed men involved in Monday's incident were Mexican soldiers.

But Hardrick Crawford Jr., a former special agent who was in charge of the FBI's El Paso's office, said he covered numerous narcotics cases along the border and documented military incursions since the mid-'90s. He said he expected both governments to deny the incursions.

"It's an embarrassment to both countries for the truth of these incursions to come out," Crawford said.

"I was concerned about the incursions on the border when I first got to El Paso. I wanted agents to go interview every rancher and resident in the area and I wanted the military incursions to be documented. I thought this would be important information - but many people didn't do anything about these incursions."

Crawford added that investigations in Mexico were difficult to conduct because the honest Mexican residents didn't want to put their own lives in danger by giving law enforcement officials information on the drug cartels.

"The drug trade is too lucrative," Crawford said. "Mexican soldiers and police officials are paid little. So it's just too tempting. With the increased efficiency and effort along the border, narcotics traffickers can bring in whatever they want. And if you go against them they'll kill you."

This week's standoff comes at a time of rising anger over border security, with the United States considering extending a wall along its 2,000-mile-long frontier with Mexico - an idea Mexicans resent.

"We have communicated at the diplomatic level with the government of Mexico on the matter and requested that they investigate the matter - and that U.S. authorities are already investigating the incident," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in a statement.

The Mexican government also cited its long-standing policy that its soldiers must stay away from the border unless they have special authorization.

Rick Glancey of the Texas Border Sheriffs' Coalition said the confrontation began 50 miles east of El Paso when state police tried to stop three sport utility vehicles on Interstate 10. The vehicles made a quick U-turn and headed south toward the border, a few miles away.

Crossing the border, one SUV got stuck crossing the Rio Grande, and men in a Humvee tried in vain to tow it out. Then a group of men in civilian clothes began unloading what appeared to be bundles of marijuana, and torched the SUV before fleeing.

The Mexican army press office said it had no information on Monday's incident.

Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said in a statement that the confrontation, in which shots were not fired, could have been staged to "damage the image of our armed forces and bilateral cooperation."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderincursions; borders; immigrantlist; immigration; mexicanmilitary; mexico
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1 posted on 02/06/2006 9:01:43 AM PST by bikepacker67
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To: bikepacker67

These Mexican army incursions prove more than anything else the absolute necessity for an effective border fence. The fact that the Bush administration covers up these violations of our sovereignty is an outrage.


2 posted on 02/06/2006 9:07:05 AM PST by reelfoot
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To: reelfoot

If the Left had a brain in their head, this is what they'd be hammering GW on.


3 posted on 02/06/2006 9:08:35 AM PST by bikepacker67
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To: bikepacker67
What, you don't like Bush's new Guest Soldier program?

Go back to DU, troll!

/sarc

4 posted on 02/06/2006 9:09:53 AM PST by Wormwood (Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!)
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To: reelfoot

Will a border fence stop tunnels from being built/used?


5 posted on 02/06/2006 9:11:57 AM PST by sarasota
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To: Wormwood

El Presidente Jorge Arbusto loves cheap labor.


6 posted on 02/06/2006 9:12:50 AM PST by TXBSAFH (Proud Dad of Twins, What Does Not Kill You Makes You Stronger!!!!!!)
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To: bikepacker67
"It's an embarrassment to both countries for the truth of these incursions to come out," Crawford said

interpretation:
Technically it would be an act of war, but we cannot discuss the truth.
7 posted on 02/06/2006 9:15:20 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: TXBSAFH

Where is W ? Where he has always been......promoting illegal immigration with every speech!


8 posted on 02/06/2006 9:15:59 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: sarasota

A good one would.

But the first requirement is not building something, it's getting leadership who cares more about our nation than some damned treasonous socialist mega-community.


9 posted on 02/06/2006 9:18:05 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: bikepacker67
But a Border Patrol agent who spoke on condition of anonymity said continuous cover-ups by Mexican and U.S. officials . . .

What is the U.S. doing covering up for the Mexican Army?

10 posted on 02/06/2006 9:18:06 AM PST by sportutegrl (People who say, "All I know is . . ." really mean, "All I want you to focus on is . . .")
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To: sarasota

"Will a border fence stop tunnels from being built/used?"

Were the Mexican Army incursions under discussion accomplished by tunnels?


11 posted on 02/06/2006 9:19:20 AM PST by reelfoot
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To: sportutegrl

I don't know the answer to the question, but I'll offer an opinion in the form of a question. Could it be money?

No media is going to attempt to find out. The answer would possibly get the whole family doing the 6 footer.


12 posted on 02/06/2006 9:24:15 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: sportutegrl

I don't know the answer to the question, but I'll offer an opinion in the form of a question. Could it be money?

No media is going to attempt to find out. The answer would possibly get the whole family doing the 6 footer.


13 posted on 02/06/2006 9:24:20 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: bikepacker67
A U.S. law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said the FBI and other agencies found no evidence the uniformed men involved in Monday's incident were Mexican soldiers.

It isn't difficult to not find what you're not looking for.

14 posted on 02/06/2006 9:28:31 AM PST by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: reelfoot

Not this discussion; I was referencing the one from last week. Seemed like a logical segue to me.


15 posted on 02/06/2006 9:28:57 AM PST by sarasota
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To: Wormwood
What, you don't like Bush's new Guest Soldier program?

Good one.

16 posted on 02/06/2006 9:30:52 AM PST by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: sarasota

No doubt drug smugglers, as recently evidenced, would be willing to expend a lot of money and effort to tunnel under a fence since they will tunnel even when there is no fence so as to avoid detection. I don't know how effective sensors placed along a fence would be in detecting tunneling. And I don't know how deep a concrete foundation would have to be to deter all but the most resourceful tunnelers. But I am convinced that an Israeli-type fence would greatly diminish walk-across the border illegal immigrants. I'm open to suggestions for impeding the drug smugglers. Right now, I am most interested in ending the invasion of millions of illegal aliens.


17 posted on 02/06/2006 9:40:03 AM PST by reelfoot
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To: reelfoot

I am just happy the news of these intrusions is finally getting out to the general public. They have been happening for years and the violence is escalating. For a long time we could not get anyone to believe these incidents were happening at all. Even fairly recently here on FR, many just couldn't believe it. It all just sounds too far fetched and no one could imagine that our government would allow it to happen.

I have always believed if the truth of what happens on the border is told, that is the first step to forcing something to be done to fix it. Yes we need a real fence and I hope everyone realizes what ever it costs will be cheap in the long run.


18 posted on 02/06/2006 9:41:58 AM PST by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: John Jorsett; Wormwood

That was good.
Mexican soldiers: doing the patrolling American soldiers haven't been ordered to do.
(But, but--aren't they supposed to stay in . . . . Mexico?)


19 posted on 02/06/2006 9:42:00 AM PST by tumblindice
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To: bikepacker67

The diplomacy really is going to hit the fan when a good citizen shoots a member of this invading army.


20 posted on 02/06/2006 9:46:12 AM PST by Stark_GOP
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To: John Jorsett

If you shoot them and have the bodies you can identify them later. If they have guns and drugs and they are running what am I missing?


21 posted on 02/06/2006 9:46:20 AM PST by colonialhk (sooprize sooprize sooprize)
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To: sportutegrl

Watch the film "Traffic" and see how crazy the drug cartels/politics are.


22 posted on 02/06/2006 9:50:21 AM PST by sarasota
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To: sarasota
What you need to know is now, with no real fence/barrier in place there is no real area to concentrate efforts of Border Patrol and LE officers. They are spread out over a large area trying to catch what they can. It is not a very effective method.

I do believe a real fence barrier would be very effective. It would allow enforcement efforts to be concentrated on patrolling the actual border itself. As to tunnels, I think if the efforts were concentrated on the border itself, tunnels would be more likely to be found and or stopped.

Of course nothing will stop the most determined person. It is just like the theory of locking your car or home, if someone is really determined they will gain access. A fence would stop the virtual flood of illegals and drugs that we now have and bring it down to a more manageable level. Along with a fence, we need to pass laws that make sure breeching it becomes a very serious offense.
23 posted on 02/06/2006 9:53:02 AM PST by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: sarasota
A fence, or wall, would not stop tunnels but it would make it easier to find tunnels because the BP could concentrate on the tunnels. Also, it is very hard to move military vehicles through a tunnel that one has dug by hand in order to avoid detection. A fence, or wall, would also send a signal to Mexico that we are no longer willing to abide by the status quo.

Anone who thinks a wall wouldn't efectively cut down on the drug trafficking and the illegals coming across the border is simply not thinking or is all for ILLEGALS coming into this country.

24 posted on 02/06/2006 9:53:46 AM PST by calex59 (seeing the light shouldn't make you go blind)
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To: colonialhk
If an American citizen were to shoot one of those Mexican soldiers I think that He would have a whole lot more to fear from his own Goverment that from any other Mexicans. This is one of those subjects that they want kept quietly under the rug. Make no mistake about it this goverment would sell your ass down the river in a heartbeat over something like that.
25 posted on 02/06/2006 10:05:44 AM PST by Vote 4 Nixon (EAT...FISH...SLEEP...REDUX)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

Good Luck on that one, no previous administration has cared about the border issues either. This border did not get this bad under one administration. I have lived here over 30 years and it has been a steady progression, each administration has either ignored the problems or had a policy that made it worse.

I personally saw more illegals and drug traffic flowing through during the Carter and Clinton administrations than I do now. The fact is there have been efforts to enforce law on the border and that is part of the reason for the escalated violence we are seeing now. I know some areas are hotter spots now than my area is so it is hard for me to see the overall picture and I live right on the border. The other reason violence is escalating now is Mexico is the new Columbia with drug lords and mafia types in control and government officials no longer have any control of their law enforcement or their military; they are just figure heads.

Our government for what ever reason is not ready to admit to the real problems in Mexico. For that I do fault them, for sure I am not happy with President Bush and think he could do more. I think you are kidding yourself that the solution is to wait for an administration that will do more, we very well could get one that would do less.

I think the solution is to inform the people what is really going on, so we can stand together to bring pressure on our politicians to build a fence and enforce the laws. Now!! There are many steps in the process of closing the border, and I don't think any solution will work if a real fence/barrier is not step one.


26 posted on 02/06/2006 10:09:18 AM PST by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: gubamyster

ping


27 posted on 02/06/2006 10:15:24 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: Wormwood

LOLOLOL


28 posted on 02/06/2006 10:19:01 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (None genuine without my signature)
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To: sportutegrl

It's not as simple as the US covering for the Mexican Army. Mexico as a country is broken and is the new Columbia. So far our government is not willing to admit that to the American people.

There is still this pretense that Mexican officials are in charge and we can negotiate with them and support them to make things better in Mexico, which would in turn solve most of the border issues. It is time our government admit the fact that Mexicans officials have lost all control of the country to drug lords and mafia types, and tell the American people the truth. We have to deal with Mexico as it is today, and not how we wish it could be.

What you are seeing in D.C. is an effort to support the figurehead Mexican government, but the truth is, it is too late for that. We the people need to let our politicians know that we know the truth about Mexico, and we need to close the border to keep their violence from spilling over as it is now. Whatever can be done to help Mexico with their problems will be an issue we will eventually have to deal with, since they are next door. For right now, the most important thing is to get the border closed and then see what else needs to be done to protect this country.


29 posted on 02/06/2006 10:22:57 AM PST by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: sarasota
"Will a border fence stop tunnels from being built/used?"

Of course it won't, but do you think we may be smart enough to figure out how to stop the tunneling as well? Hmmm? Geez.
30 posted on 02/06/2006 10:28:49 AM PST by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: reelfoot

Reinforced concrete footer that is wired for "sound" and "Shock therapy" should do the trick.


31 posted on 02/06/2006 10:30:29 AM PST by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: bikepacker67

The Left like illegal immigrants, too.


32 posted on 02/06/2006 10:33:45 AM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Conservative Goddess

"Reinforced concrete footer that is wired for 'sound' and 'Shock therapy' should do the trick."

I'm onboard with that.


33 posted on 02/06/2006 10:41:14 AM PST by reelfoot
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To: Conservative Goddess

See #17 for a more appropriate response to my question.


34 posted on 02/06/2006 11:01:18 AM PST by sarasota
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To: Vote 4 Nixon

No US government would be stupid enough to get between an officer on the border and his/her right to use a weapon on an armed smuggler even if it turned out to be a Mexican official.

This would be clear cut on our side. The issue would be if there was entry into Mexico or a death in Mexico as happen a few weeks ago. A man was shot on the US side and ran to the Mexican side.


35 posted on 02/06/2006 11:15:25 AM PST by colonialhk (sooprize sooprize sooprize)
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To: Vote 4 Nixon

The recent return of Jackboot John Magaw to Homeland Security certainly gives strength to your argument.

Why else would they hire a man who's specialty is murdering citizens in their homes?


36 posted on 02/06/2006 11:16:15 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: Tammy8

...What you are seeing in D.C. is an effort to support the figurehead Mexican government,...

What you are seeing is bi-partisan treason.
The plan is to eliminate the borders and create a continental Socialist hell of a Community.

Sidestep the Constitution, eliminate the need for re-election, and the American taxpayer will be bled to death paying for it all.

Google: North American Community

Add "Phyllis Schlafly" and you'll be directed to an excellent summary of the whole disgust thing.


37 posted on 02/06/2006 11:22:36 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: sarasota
Mexico is hopeless, the only groups that have guns are listed below.

The looters (government) Mexican Army.
The looters (government) private Army.
The drugrunners who bribe the looters.
The communists another type of looter.
38 posted on 02/06/2006 11:24:37 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (“Don't approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any side.”)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

Do you think this is a partisan issue?


39 posted on 02/06/2006 11:28:05 AM PST by sarasota
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To: sarasota

Not sure what you mean.

IMO, it's a bi-partisan plan to destroy our sovereignity.

Hunt down the membership of the CFR.
You'll find enough vip's from both parties to make you puke.
George Soros and Dick Cheney snuggling together, along with Condi rice and Madeleine Dullbight. George H.W.Bush and Bill Clinton. Yech!

Should average dems and average pubs be on the same side against it?

Hell yes.


40 posted on 02/06/2006 11:36:32 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

You answered my question. But I still don't understand the "logic".


41 posted on 02/06/2006 11:38:38 AM PST by sarasota
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To: sarasota

My logic?


42 posted on 02/06/2006 11:41:33 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: Tammy8
There is still this pretense that Mexican officials are in charge and we can negotiate with them and support them to make things better in Mexico

It is pretty difficult to talk to a government that is rife with corruption, and one that helps the business that makes the most money(drugtrade, illegals moving across the border). What else does Mexico export to the U.S.?
43 posted on 02/06/2006 11:44:08 AM PST by edgrimly78
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

No. The logic of the two parties.


44 posted on 02/06/2006 11:56:59 AM PST by sarasota
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To: sarasota

I have to guess it's power.
And not having to be accountable for their actions.

I never understood the thirst for power over others, so it mystifies me.

To me, having power over others just makes you a babysitter for all the annoying brats.

Read some of their dreck.

http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=8138

I've read it all. I think they're nuts.


45 posted on 02/06/2006 12:03:32 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

I'll check it out and thanks.


46 posted on 02/06/2006 12:05:40 PM PST by sarasota
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To: edgrimly78

The government in Mexico has always been corrupt, and our government has usually tried to pretend they weren't and dealt with them on that assumption. (Why, I do not know)

The officials used to be bought off, now I think they no longer have any power, no need to buy them off. Drug lords are in control now, and each has their own area. There are drug wars all over Mexico to determine who will control each area. I don't think the Mexican gov't has to help illegal traffic any longer- I don't think the smugglers need the help any more. That is why I have come to the conclusion Mexico is the new Columbia. There are mass desertions from their Military, and LE. The deserters are joining up with the Mexican "mafia" gangs and drug lords. Military and LE over there has always gone to the highest bidder but now they are not even pretending to be honest.

To answer your other question about what they export to the US other than illegals and drugs; the answer is oil, and many products made by former American companies who moved south of the border. Vegetables are imported also, and of course a variety of tourist related items. As far as I am concerned, they need us worse than we need them, no matter what they export.


47 posted on 02/06/2006 12:08:19 PM PST by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: sarasota

There's piles of docs on the subject if you need more.

They are certainly not concerned with anyone seeing the plan.


48 posted on 02/06/2006 12:11:15 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

I had no idea this plan was being hatched--and for many years. Color me enlightened.


49 posted on 02/06/2006 12:13:59 PM PST by sarasota
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To: sarasota

Actually, start here. Phyllis has a nice easy summary with links.

http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2005/july05/05-07-13.html


50 posted on 02/06/2006 12:17:02 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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