Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

First duty is to yourself (No duty to retreat)
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW ^ | February 5, 2006 | Dimitri Vassilaros

Posted on 02/06/2006 11:35:25 AM PST by neverdem

The law says you must act like a coward. In your own home. Even when your life is threatened.

Many states have criminal-friendly "duty to retreat" laws. A victim in his house is mandated to retreat from an attacker until he is cornered. Only then is the prey allowed to use lethal force on the predator. Prosecutors in those states have been known to victimize the victim (such as charging him with manslaughter) who prefers to fire back rather than to back off.

The National Rifle Association has been trying to end the insanity state by state.

Florida came to its senses last year. It enacted a law based on the "Castle Doctrine" -- that one's home is one's castle. A person now is not legally required to be hunted down room by room by an intruder before the victim pulls the trigger. The law allows the victim to shoot back without fear of being prosecuted for being overzealous about protecting his life. And it prohibits criminals from suing their more aggressive victims. All their victims, actually.

"Somebody should not be twice victimized, first by the assailant and then by the legal system trying to destroy his life," says Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, the largest organization representing gun owners after the NRA.

But the Florida law does more.

Car-jackers beware; now one's car is his mobile castle. And better still, if a victim is not in a home or car, now he legally can use deadly force. Sunshine State criminals without a death wish might want to consider career counseling. Or take Horace Greeley's advice to go west. But if they do, they had better hurry.

Wyoming is the latest battleground. The NRA is lobbying there and in 11 other states to repeal duty-to-retreat laws...

(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida; US: Pennsylvania; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: banglist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-103 next last

1 posted on 02/06/2006 11:35:26 AM PST by neverdem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Louisiana has never had a duty to retreat. The assailant doesn't even need to be all the way in your house. Or facing you. Or armed.

Besides, juries love it when home intruders get shot.

2 posted on 02/06/2006 11:39:27 AM PST by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
A duty to retreat? Such laws are morally wrong and serve to encourage criminals to comit more crimes. Why is it that in some states the legislators seem to want to make it easier for the criminals and harder on the victims?

Such laws should-be ignored. A person's first duty is to protect his life and the life of others. His second duty is to protect his possessions. This third duty is to go to the pistol range at least once in a while so that he can exercise perfect gun control.
3 posted on 02/06/2006 11:46:35 AM PST by R.W.Ratikal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
I like Pennsylvania - a few years ago a burglar broke into a house in upper Bucks County. The homeowner not only used a gun to chase him out of the house, he then went outside and shot him. The local DA did not press charges.
4 posted on 02/06/2006 11:46:46 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - They want to die for Islam, and we want to kill them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Retreating is what I'll be doing when I go into the kitchen to grab 2 fingers of single malt to calm my nerves after I've shot (until he/she quits moving) an intruder found on the inside of my abode.
5 posted on 02/06/2006 11:50:42 AM PST by tx_eggman (Islamofascism ... bringing you the best of the 7th century for the past 1300 years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem; sure_fine

We've got a real Conservative DA here in York County, who has never indicted a home defender, that I can remember.

There was an incident here a few years ago, where a guy ith a tire iron had smashed a motorist's car window, and was bashing him with it. He was shot 3 times, and the shooter was never indicted.

I answer my front door with my 1911A1 .45cal, concealed behind the door, after all the home invasions we're had in the Lancaster and York areas, in the past 2 years. Just to be safe.

Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.


6 posted on 02/06/2006 11:51:46 AM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (I don't have a clue...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Does anyone know what states have "duty to retreat" statutes?

I would like to know which states to avoid.


7 posted on 02/06/2006 11:51:59 AM PST by Beckwith (The liberal press has picked sides ... and they have sided with the Islamofascists)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem; sure_fine

We've got a real Conservative DA here in York County, who has never indicted a home defender, that I can remember.

There was an incident here a few years ago, where a guy ith a tire iron had smashed a motorist's car window, and was bashing him with it. He was shot 3 times, and the shooter was never indicted.

I answer my front door with my 1911A1 .45cal, concealed behind the door, after all the home invasions we're had in the Lancaster and York areas, in the past 2 years. Just to be safe.

Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.


8 posted on 02/06/2006 11:52:17 AM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (I don't have a clue...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butternut_squash_bisque

Whoops, sorry for the double post.


9 posted on 02/06/2006 11:52:48 AM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (I don't have a clue...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: butternut_squash_bisque
just in case anyone misses it

Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6


10 posted on 02/06/2006 11:55:18 AM PST by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

And the gun-control lobby insisted that the law in Florida would make Disney World look like the O.K. Corral.

Didn't happen.


11 posted on 02/06/2006 11:56:05 AM PST by Lunatic Fringe (North Texas Solutions http://ntxsolutions.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Beckwith

Try www.packing.org and enter your state from the pull-down menu, at top left.


12 posted on 02/06/2006 11:56:22 AM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (I don't have a clue...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: tx_eggman

"Retreating is what I'll be doing when I go into the kitchen to grab 2 fingers of single malt to calm my nerves after I've shot (until he/she quits moving) an intruder found on the inside of my abode."

Thats right, rest up with a little booze to take the "edge off". You gotta long night ahead of you: gutting, sawing, digging, filling back in the dirt. Then you gotta clean the house and get ready for work the next morning.

No need to involve the cops ... they have enough to worry about.


13 posted on 02/06/2006 11:58:33 AM PST by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Gordongekko909

Texas Penal Code

CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

Subchapter B

§ 9.21.

(c) The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.


14 posted on 02/06/2006 11:58:52 AM PST by Lunatic Fringe (North Texas Solutions http://ntxsolutions.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

I'll take my chances with a jury over a thug criminal every time.

Self defense ends recidivism every time.


15 posted on 02/06/2006 12:03:06 PM PST by AbeKrieger (Islam is the virus that causes al-Qaeda.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lunatic Fringe
is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.

Works for me ... I've never seen a case in this wonderful state where the shooting of a burglar wasn't no-billed.

16 posted on 02/06/2006 12:07:46 PM PST by tx_eggman (Islamofascism ... bringing you the best of the 7th century for the past 1300 years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Not in Texas!! However, if given the opportunity I will retreat and wait in the dark outside my house for the bad guy. He will not leave alive.

This is Texas, it is legal, get used to it.>
17 posted on 02/06/2006 12:11:22 PM PST by cpdiii (roughneck (oil field trash and proud of it), geologist, pilot, pharmacist, full time iconoclast)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tx_eggman

Seems to me a homeowner in Iowa was charged for shooting an intruder during a breakin. This was several years ago, I think. I don't remember the outcome.

Can anyone confirm this? I can't so far.


18 posted on 02/06/2006 12:15:12 PM PST by Crucis Country (Crucis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Sounds like it might be an easy one to beat. Just kill the perp, drag the body into a back room, trash the place a little to make it look like you were running around trying to "retreat" to your redoubt (Panic Room?). I guess you'd have to be careful not to leave any blood trails...
19 posted on 02/06/2006 12:16:55 PM PST by chimera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lunatic Fringe; Squantos; El Gato; archy; Eaker; Shooter 2.5
Texas Penal Code

CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

Subchapter B

§ 9.21.

(c) The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.

Inquiring minds wanted to know!

20 posted on 02/06/2006 12:17:33 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be prosecuted.
21 posted on 02/06/2006 12:18:42 PM PST by Stashiu (RVN, 1969-70)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Regardless of the law, I would never, ever retreat in my own home. Someone breaking into my home will hear two things before he dies. The first will be the action operating on my Remington 870. The second will be the report of the first round being fired. He will not hear the next round.

I'm protecting myself, but I'm protecting my wife even more.

Police officers breaking into my home (I don't know why they would ever do that) must announce themselves loudly in order not to be mistaken for a common burglar or home invasion robber.


22 posted on 02/06/2006 12:19:14 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gordongekko909

That's the way it should be. I would never shoot anyone inside my home if he were just stealing something and not presenting a danger to life.


23 posted on 02/06/2006 12:19:56 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: tx_eggman

I like the cut of your jib.


24 posted on 02/06/2006 12:21:01 PM PST by corlorde (New Hampshire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr

"I would never shoot anyone inside my home if he were just stealing something and not presenting a danger to life.
"

Really? And you know the person's intentions how exactly in a darkened home? You know that the person is unarmed? You know that he means you no harm?

I advise that you rethink this position, just in case. Of course, if you are not armed in your home, or your firearms are locked away and not immediately accessible, it's a moot point, anyhow. I suspect that to be the case.


25 posted on 02/06/2006 12:21:46 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Stashiu

"Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be prosecuted."

Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again. There, that's better, S.


26 posted on 02/06/2006 12:25:43 PM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (I don't have a clue...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: MaDuce; tx_eggman
Retreating is what I'll be doing when I go into the kitchen to grab 2 fingers of single malt to calm my nerves after I've shot (until he/she quits moving) an intruder found on the inside of my abode.

Ya might not want the sherrif to smell whisky on your breath

27 posted on 02/06/2006 12:26:25 PM PST by Uncledave (It takes some pretty serious yodeling to call for a filibuster from a five-star ski resort)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Crucis Country

There was a celebrasted case in Iowa in the mid 1960s where a property owner set a spring gun aka "Booby Trap" in an unoccupied dwelling in order to catch burglar(s). He did and was pronptly sued and lost as I recall.

Two problems with the property owners actions:
1) It is illegal in Iowa and most other states, as well, to set up spring guns aka "Booby Traps"
2) The house was not occupied at the time.

Perhaps this is what you were thinking about,eh?

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


28 posted on 02/06/2006 12:26:34 PM PST by alfa6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: MineralMan

The cost to repair the hole in my house after a .44 goes thru him, and the cost of the cleaning bill, and the tv that broke when he dropped it, and the time off work for legal issues, far outweighs what I have in my house that could be stolen.

Besides, as I said, if there were no danger to life, whatever I have in my home that could be stolen, is not worth a human life. That is not to say, that I would not have my weapon trained on him, as one is always near the bed.


29 posted on 02/06/2006 12:29:00 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

good good good.
one of the things I miss about living in Louisiana - someone sets one toe across your property line, you can pwn him if you so desire.
here in GA, it is the "threshhold" of the home.


30 posted on 02/06/2006 12:30:10 PM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chimera

You're dreaming. Forensics would pick up the blood trail in a nanosecond.


31 posted on 02/06/2006 12:32:25 PM PST by Cobra64
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Most people don't understand the difference between a statute and a law.

No statute can override the lawful actions of a person defending himself on his own property.

32 posted on 02/06/2006 12:33:01 PM PST by MamaTexan (I am NOT a ~legal entity~, nor am I a *person* as created by law!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Beckwith
Does anyone know what states have "duty to retreat" statutes?
Luckily for you we're not a state, but avoid Spain. Intruders have all the rights here. I'd still shoot one anyway.
33 posted on 02/06/2006 12:35:13 PM PST by freedom moose (has de cultivar el que sembres)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
The law allows the victim to shoot back without fear of being prosecuted for being overzealous about protecting his life.

In my world it is not possible to be overzealous when protecting a life.

34 posted on 02/06/2006 12:36:40 PM PST by DumpsterDiver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr; MineralMan

all theives of individual's property should be killed.

in stealing a material possession or money from an individual, they rob the victim of portions of life: that portion of life traded to acquire the possession or money, and that portion of life to be traded to replace it.

time is the one resource you can never replace, and never know how much you have left until you zero your account.

anyone who takes time from me in that manner is a dead man.


35 posted on 02/06/2006 12:36:47 PM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr
Besides, as I said, if there were no danger to life, whatever I have in my home that could be stolen, is not worth a human life. That is not to say, that I would not have my weapon trained on him, as one is always near the bed.

So, you let him rob you and leave ... and at his next stop down the street he rapes or kills someone.

No harm, no foul, right?

Would you kill a poisonous snake in your yard?

36 posted on 02/06/2006 12:37:28 PM PST by tx_eggman (Islamofascism ... bringing you the best of the 7th century for the past 1300 years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

Well, I did say you'd have to be a little careful about the blood trail. Lighten up, Francine...


37 posted on 02/06/2006 12:39:18 PM PST by chimera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MineralMan
The first will be the action operating on my Remington 870.

Not me. Too cumbersome. Buy a Sig P226 .40 S&W with laser grips. Much more effective at short range.

http://sigarms.com/products/newproducts.asp

38 posted on 02/06/2006 12:40:37 PM PST by Cobra64
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: King Prout

We are obviously different. A material possesion can be replaced, a life cannot. My tv is not a portion of my life, that is worth killing over.


39 posted on 02/06/2006 12:41:11 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: neverdem; El Gato

Thanks !


40 posted on 02/06/2006 12:41:13 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr
One small question Stuart.

If you can read the guys mind well enough to KNOW he's not planning to do you any harm, why don't you just set the items he wants on the porch so he doesn't have to come inside?

If someone is entering your house uninvited, you can be certain they don't have your best interests at heart. Even if they only PLAN to take your money and valuables, plans change, especially in the adrenaline charged environment of a robbery.

If you can cower in a back room where you won't be seen, thats fine. Odds are you won't be hurt, but if you have children or a wife, the time it takes to gather them up and escort them to the cower corner is time you're exposing yourself and them to discovery.

Fear makes people do unexpected and often irrational things, like attack the source of the fear. If the criminal sees you escorting your brood, odds are just as good he's going to attack you as they are he's going to flee.


If you enter my home uninvited, you've signed your death warrant. After I put several .45 caliber holes in your chest and head, I'm going to have a shaking session that keeps me from dialing the phone lasting just long enough to assure you've stopped breathing before I call 911.

My life and my families lives are much more important that any other life on the planet.
41 posted on 02/06/2006 12:43:02 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: King Prout

I draw a different line. If I'm not home, the cretin can take whatever he wishes. I have insurance. If I'm home, he dies...not because he is stealing my junk, but because he poses a threat to the safety of myself and my loved ones.

I'm a terrific snap shot. I grew up hunting quail in the chapparal in Southern California. The little chickens take off with a whir of wings, and you have just about a second to take them before they dive into another bush. I rarely missed.

That's why I arm myself with a shotgun, rather than a pistol. My 870 shoots where I think it to shoot. It hits my shoulder ready to fire at what I'm thinking of hitting. I cannot do that with a pistol.


42 posted on 02/06/2006 12:43:08 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: tx_eggman

I guess, I should just go out and kill the guy that speeds and cuts me off on the highway too, because 20 miles down the road, he may run into someone?

Yes, I kill poisonous snakes. Most thieves, if not armed, will do what you tell them, if you have a weapon trained on them.


43 posted on 02/06/2006 12:44:33 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

"Not me. Too cumbersome. Buy a Sig P226 .40 S&W with laser grips. Much more effective at short range."

Not so, by any means. See my message above. I would choose any scattergun for home defense over any handgun. Period.


44 posted on 02/06/2006 12:44:56 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Beckwith

Maryland is one.


45 posted on 02/06/2006 12:46:55 PM PST by Frankss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Dr.Zoidberg

That is ridiculous. Did you read anything I wrote?


46 posted on 02/06/2006 12:47:11 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr
I should just go out and kill the guy that speeds and cuts me off on the highway too, because 20 miles down the road, he may run into someone?

LOL! You're funny.
47 posted on 02/06/2006 12:48:23 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr
That's the way it should be. I would never shoot anyone inside my home if he were just stealing something and not presenting a danger to life.

Yep. Sure did.
48 posted on 02/06/2006 12:49:32 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr; MineralMan

you are correct... we are different: I know what money is.

my next TV, when I get around to it, shall cost about $2,000.00USD

call that 250 working hours spent to aquire that sum (minus Uncle's cut).

call that five weeks of my productive life, gone, essentially enslaved to the whim of a thief.

when a man breaks into my home and enslaves me, he becomes a tyrant and loses all claims to a right to my sufferance of his existence.

death to such a tyrant.

so should it ever be for tyrants.


49 posted on 02/06/2006 12:50:01 PM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Dr.Zoidberg

And the part about my .44 trained on him? If there is no threat to life, I won't shoot..as I said, the cost of repair, cleanup, and legal fees, would not be worth what he was stealing.


50 posted on 02/06/2006 12:51:15 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-103 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson