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Eden and Evolution
The Washington Post ^ | February 5, 2005 | Shankar Vedantam

Posted on 02/06/2006 5:02:42 PM PST by CobaltBlue

Ricky Nguyen and Mariama Lowe never really believed in evolution to begin with. But as they took their seats in Room CC-121 at Northern Virginia Community College on November 2, they fully expected to hear what students usually hear in any Biology 101 class: that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution was true.

As professor Caroline Crocker took the lectern, Nguyen sat in the back of the class of 60 students, Lowe in the front. Crocker, who wore a light brown sweater and slacks, flashed a slide showing a cartoon of a cheerful monkey eating a banana. An arrow led from the monkey to a photograph of an exceptionally unattractive man sitting in his underwear on a couch. Above the arrow was a question mark.

Crocker was about to establish a small beachhead for an insurgency that ultimately aims to topple Darwin's view that humans and apes are distant cousins. The lecture she was to deliver had caused her to lose a job at a previous university, she told me earlier, and she was taking a risk by delivering it again. As a nontenured professor, she had little institutional protection. But this highly trained biologist wanted students to know what she herself deeply believed: that the scientific establishment was perpetrating fraud, hunting down critics of evolution to ruin them and disguising an atheistic view of life in the garb of science.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: creation; crevolist; darwin; evolution; fairfaxcounty; highereducation; id; idiocy; ignoranceisstrength; intelligentdesign; mythology; nvcc; retard; scienceeducation; superstitiouskooks
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1 posted on 02/06/2006 5:02:43 PM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: PatrickHenry

Ping?


2 posted on 02/06/2006 5:03:30 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue; Junior

I donno. Lemme mull it over a bit.


3 posted on 02/06/2006 5:13:47 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: CobaltBlue
a photograph of an exceptionally unattractive man sitting in his underwear on a couch

She said those photographs were for personal use only!

I feel more violated than Paris Hilton!

Well... maybe not that violated.

4 posted on 02/06/2006 5:15:18 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: ahayes

Ping to self.


5 posted on 02/06/2006 5:15:56 PM PST by ahayes
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To: CobaltBlue; andysandmikesmom

A lot to think about.


6 posted on 02/06/2006 5:16:40 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: PatrickHenry

It's long -- from the WashPost Magazine. This type of long, deep thinkpiece is the type of thing the WashPost does best, IMO, they let the writer just stretch out and hit a lot of different points.

Not fare for Three Stooges type of slapstick.


7 posted on 02/06/2006 5:20:11 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue; longshadow; CarolinaGuitarman; Thatcherite; Coyoteman; js1138; Junior; VadeRetro; ...

I just finished reading it. I still can't make up my mind. Guys, shall I ping the list?


8 posted on 02/06/2006 5:24:20 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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===> Placemarker <===
9 posted on 02/06/2006 5:25:44 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: CobaltBlue
What unites these advocates is not religion but the belief that supernatural forces are active in everyday life.

That's backwards from what I think. Supernatural forces are what is not acting. Religion, a set of beliefs that supernatural forces control reality, does act, often leading people to do bad things.

10 posted on 02/06/2006 5:30:29 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: PatrickHenry
I think it's an interesting, wide-ranging article. The real debate is not about science anyway, this article gets covers the actual battlefield far more than the usual scientific report, which will be filtered out by anti-evolutionists Reality-Distortion Shield anyway.
11 posted on 02/06/2006 5:30:52 PM PST by MRMEAN (Corruptisima republica plurimae leges. -- Tacitus)
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To: PatrickHenry
Crocker said that subsequent research had shown that chemicals used in the [Miller-Urey] experiment did not exist on Earth 4 billion years ago. "The experiment is irrelevant, but you still find it in your books," she said.

This too is wrong.

12 posted on 02/06/2006 5:34:47 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: CobaltBlue

True enough, but the creationist standards are wheeled out by the brave heroine - argument from incredulity, straw moths etc. The power of denial is literally awesome - this girl has an advanced degree which presumably entails frequent visits to large libraries with shelf after shelf bearing books and journals that contain no evidence.


13 posted on 02/06/2006 5:35:00 PM PST by planetesimal (All is flux)
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To: PatrickHenry; mlc9852

PH...I already got pinged by mlc9852, so I am here...need to read the whole article, its a long one, and dont know if I have time enough this evening or not...and will be busy all day tomorrow...but I look forward, hopefully, to some good discussion...or not...whatever...


14 posted on 02/06/2006 5:37:02 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: CobaltBlue
Before the class, Crocker had told me that she was going to teach "the strengths and weaknesses of evolution." Afterward, I asked her whether she was going to discuss the evidence for evolution in another class. She said no.

The gimmick here is she "sincerely" in her nutcase way thinks there aren't any strenghts of evolution. Still, she feels allowed to bait and switch the reporter who does not know up front what she intends.

They're allowed to lie as needed. The Lord understands.

15 posted on 02/06/2006 5:46:08 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: CobaltBlue
...Crocker, who wore a light brown sweater and slacks,...

This is key to the entire story.........isn't it?

FMCDH(BITS)

16 posted on 02/06/2006 5:46:53 PM PST by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: PatrickHenry

I'd ping this one. The WaPo needs an education.


17 posted on 02/06/2006 5:51:17 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: CobaltBlue
When Lowe finally spoke, it seemed as if the lecture had lifted a load from her shoulders. "I believe in creationism, I believe in intelligent design," she declared to the class. Humans have souls, which make them different from other animals, she told me later. To believe in evolution meant that "after you are dead, you are done."

The close association of her belief that evolution nullifies her God means that she has a hopeless conflict of interest on the science. There's no way she could be trusted to be open minded on the facts.

18 posted on 02/06/2006 5:56:11 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: narby
There's no way she could be trusted to be open minded on the facts.

I do shudder to think that she's teaching right down the street from me in Fairfax, VA -- admittedly Nova Community College is only a two-year college, but it's supposed to be pretty good as these things go.

My guess is she loses this job but gets a job teaching at a religious institution.

19 posted on 02/06/2006 6:28:05 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue
Hopefully this won't violate any coyright rules, but I've selected two partial sentences to quote.

"Nazi Germany had taken Darwin's ideas..." [snip] "What happened in Germany in World War II was based on science,"

___________________________________

Would Ms. Crocker be as willing to link Hitler and the death camps to Christianity? I'd like to see her response to this:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

(for the record, I think it's downright nonsense, if not deliberate deceit, to link Hitler's crimes to either Darwin or Christianity. )

20 posted on 02/06/2006 6:28:53 PM PST by Ken H
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
Evolution Ping

The List-O-Links
A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 340 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit,
and How to argue against a scientific theory.

21 posted on 02/06/2006 6:29:45 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Sure. Things have been a bit dull lately.


22 posted on 02/06/2006 6:32:12 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: VadeRetro

I'd like to take a look at that textbook. Not difficult, Nova is two miles from me, I could just drive there and look in the bookstore.

If they are teaching the moths and the primordial soup theory, then I would have to ask why.


23 posted on 02/06/2006 6:32:27 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue
No one has ever seen a dog turn into a cat in a laboratory.

What an incredibly ignorant Liar-for-the-Lord - I hope this fool is already fired by now (again).

24 posted on 02/06/2006 6:32:52 PM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: Ken H

I agree completely with your last sentence in your post, which reads "(for the record, I think it's downright nonsense, if not deliberate deceit, to link Hitler's crimes to either Darwin or Christianity. )"

Indeed...evil people do evil things, and trying to link their evil deeds to anothers religion or philosophy or world view, is as you say, nonsense and deceit...its also stupid, shallow, and clearly linked by people with some sort of axe to grind...


25 posted on 02/06/2006 6:35:53 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: CobaltBlue
The Miller experiment was a demonstration that very simple inorganics will combine to make complex organics with no "intelligent design" involved. That was an impressive beginning to abiogenesis research and still relevant. (However, it doesn't have an awful lot to do directly with Darwin's theory of how life forms diversify.)

The peppered moths are a fine example of natural selection. I don't think they really speciated, so someone can yell "That's just microevolution!" and it's true as far as it goes. But macroevolution is just lots of accumulated micro-.

26 posted on 02/06/2006 6:38:28 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: From many - one.

Check back to see if thread evolves.


27 posted on 02/06/2006 6:40:27 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: VadeRetro

The peppered moth story has too many problems to be taught with a straight face. I don't have a problem with teaching it as an example of science gone wrong.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_1999_Spring/ai_54321422


28 posted on 02/06/2006 6:46:26 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: planetesimal; PatrickHenry; CobaltBlue
Crocker said she came to her views on evolution not because of her religious faith but while working on a PhD in biology, when she learned about the complexity of the cell and the immune system

Did they say which University she graduated from? Couldn't imagine any PhD committee allowing her to profess those beliefs!

Must not take much to teach at a community college these days.

29 posted on 02/06/2006 6:47:21 PM PST by phantomworker ("Grow up and die right.")
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To: balrog666
No one has ever seen a dog turn into a cat in a laboratory.

If you were with Tim Leary, Owsley and I during 1967's summer in Berkeley, you would have.

30 posted on 02/06/2006 6:48:23 PM PST by Rudder
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To: VadeRetro

And the primordial soup theory, while interesting, is just that. I don't think it's any more worth teaching in an intro biology class than ID.


31 posted on 02/06/2006 6:49:20 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: Rudder

Did you know his brother, Really?


32 posted on 02/06/2006 6:52:25 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: CobaltBlue
The peppered moth story has too many problems to be taught with a straight face.

Not really. It's a pretty good example of natural selection. But the anti-evos have made such a mountain out of the molehill that the moths were positioned for the photo ... it's become to evolution what Sally Hemmings is to Thomas Jefferson. Perhaps it's much easier to use some of the many other common examples -- DDT resistant bugs, for example.

33 posted on 02/06/2006 6:53:08 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: CobaltBlue
And evolutionary science has a great deal to say about ethics and morality, Dawkins said. Being "pro-life in debates on abortion or stem cell research always means pro-human life, for no sensibly articulated reason," he once wrote. The fact that humans think of themselves as altogether distinct from other animals -- and the biblical notion that humans have dominion over other animals -- is a sort of racism, Dawkins said. Evolution shows that fox hunters and bullfighters are tormenting their own distant cousins, which is why the biologist sends money to anti-bullfighting groups in Spain, and why he notes with pride that fox hunting was banned on the family farm. "The melancholy fact," Dawkins wrote in an essay called "Gaps in the Mind," "is that, at present, society's moral attitudes rest almost entirely on the . . . speciesist imperative."

I think one can reasonably infer from this exposition that Dawkins is pro-abortion. The "Gap in the Mind" in his head is that tormenting "distant cousins" (bulls, foxes) is much more repugnant that murdering your own, direct offspring.

34 posted on 02/06/2006 6:54:42 PM PST by EarlyBird
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To: furball4paws
Brother, brother where art thou?

Whose brother?

35 posted on 02/06/2006 6:55:06 PM PST by Rudder
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To: phantomworker

A quick google indicates that she received a PhD in immunopharmacology from the University of Southampton, UK...


36 posted on 02/06/2006 7:00:10 PM PST by jonathanmo
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To: Rudder

Tim's - sorry I couldn't resist a little toss of the hat to an old George Carlin routine.


37 posted on 02/06/2006 7:00:18 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: CobaltBlue
There do appear to be complications in the moth's story. Much of their activity is at night, and camouflage from birds is not the only thing going on. Much of that is conceded by other sources. Still, that author seems to have a bit of the chip on the shoulder.

The overall summary on T.O. mentions the same arguments with more perspective.

38 posted on 02/06/2006 7:01:33 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: All

Hey, all. Drudge has a link to a story about 100's of new species just found in New Guinea:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article343740.ece

I guess cannibalism has its positive aspects in preserving species that might otherwise make it in the pot.

Not too many of these ultra-remote places left for finding a plethora (yes I said plethora) of new species.


39 posted on 02/06/2006 7:06:38 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: furball4paws
I knew Tim Leary personally (he was daft in the extreme, we both got our doctorates from Berkeley and we both had the same favorite professor in the same dept.

I usually fall over laughing when I listen to Carlin, but please fill me in on this routine.

40 posted on 02/06/2006 7:07:20 PM PST by Rudder
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To: CobaltBlue
And the primordial soup theory, while interesting, is just that. I don't think it's any more worth teaching in an intro biology class than ID.

It probably wasn't mentioned in mine, but that was back around 1965. It's outside the scope of classical evolution, but I'm not sure it's outside the scope of biology. I could go either way on whether to put it in a HS intro class. It's an area where I'm willing to let the textbook writers write and the teachers teach.

But it has to be more worth mentioning than ID. There's really no there there in ID.

41 posted on 02/06/2006 7:07:56 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Rudder

Can't remember much. Some things just stick "...Timothy Leary and his brother, Really..." It's from a few years after the TO'L movie about LSD. I actually saw it (the movie), but don't remember squat - I think I was in love at the time :)


42 posted on 02/06/2006 7:11:48 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: CobaltBlue

From the article:

"No one has ever seen a dog turn into a cat in a laboratory."
...
"Humans have souls, which make them different from other animals, she told me later."


And when has anyone ever seen, or conclusively proven the evidence of the soul?


This woman is not fit to be teaching science. She should be teaching Sunday School at her local church.


43 posted on 02/06/2006 7:16:15 PM PST by Blzbba (Sub sole nihil novi est)
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To: PatrickHenry

I wouldn't bother. If you do, link to the pharyngula commentary on it. Crocker is clearly incompetent to teach biology, and her intrusion of religion into biology class is only the beginning.


44 posted on 02/06/2006 7:19:39 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Rudder
If you were with Tim Leary, Owsley and I during 1967's summer in Berkeley, you would have.

The Magical Mystery Tour?

45 posted on 02/06/2006 7:21:05 PM PST by phantomworker ("Grow up and die right.")
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To: jonathanmo

I've heard that working on a PhD can do that to you! Kind a went over the edge of reality!


46 posted on 02/06/2006 7:24:40 PM PST by phantomworker ("Grow up and die right.")
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To: CobaltBlue

I have never had to read so many words to end up with absolutely nothing to show for it.


47 posted on 02/06/2006 7:31:45 PM PST by spinestein (All journalists today are paid advocates for someone's agenda.)
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To: VadeRetro
Regarding biogenesis: I'm not sure it's outside the scope of biology.

Evolution takes many slings and arrrows because it doesn't explain the origins of life. Yet I agree somewhat with our critics: Biology should not avoid the topic, but is in a good position to pursue it (for example: the Miller-Urey demonstration in 1953).

48 posted on 02/06/2006 7:33:11 PM PST by Rudder
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To: balrog666

No kidding. That really jumped out at me too. What evolutionists claim that dogs turn into cats? In petri dishes even!


49 posted on 02/06/2006 7:38:10 PM PST by blueminnesota
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To: CobaltBlue

bump


50 posted on 02/06/2006 7:39:40 PM PST by Mamzelle
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