Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Secret Court's Judges Were Warned About NSA Spy Data (Shhhhh...it's a secret)
Washington Post ^ | 2/8/06 | Carol D. Leonnig

Posted on 02/08/2006 8:14:28 PM PST by frankjr

Twice in the past four years, a top Justice Department lawyer warned the presiding judge of a secret surveillance court that information overheard in President Bush's eavesdropping program may have been improperly used to obtain wiretap warrants in the court, according to two sources with knowledge of those events.

The revelations infuriated U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly -- who, like her predecessor, Royce C. Lamberth, had expressed serious doubts about whether the warrantless monitoring of phone calls and e-mails ordered by Bush was legal. Both judges had insisted that no information obtained this way be used to gain warrants from their court, according to government sources, and both had been assured by administration officials it would never happen.

The two heads of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court were the only judges in the country briefed by the administration on Bush's program. The president's secret order, issued sometime after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, allows the National Security Agency to monitor telephone calls and e-mails between people in the United States and contacts overseas.

Yet another problem in a 2005 warrant application prompted Kollar-Kotelly to issue a stern order to government lawyers to create a better firewall or face more difficulty obtaining warrants.

The two judges' discomfort with the NSA spying program was previously known. But this new account reveals the depth of their doubts about its legality and their behind-the-scenes efforts to protect the court from what they considered potentially tainted evidence. The new accounts also show the degree to which Baker, a top intelligence expert at Justice, shared their reservations and aided the judges.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: colleenkollarkotelly; kollarkotelly; kotelly; lamberth; leakers; nsa; spying
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-89 next last
I really do think the Dems should just go ahead an pass a 'Terrorist Bill of Rights' so we can end all the B.S. stories and leaks.

Do people understand that there is a war going on???

1 posted on 02/08/2006 8:14:30 PM PST by frankjr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: frankjr
Sorry unnamed source is journalistic malpractice. So Wash Poop is this the SAME unnamed source that told you Fritz was going to hand down "26 indictments reaching into the WH"? How many times are you morons at the Wash Poop going to get burned reporting rumor and gossip as fact?
2 posted on 02/08/2006 8:17:29 PM PST by MNJohnnie ("Vote Democrat-We are the party of reactionary inertia".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr
This is terrible what is the matter with these people!
3 posted on 02/08/2006 8:18:34 PM PST by Steveone (Liberalism is a brain tumor!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr
" Both judges had insisted that no information obtained this way be used to gain warrants from their court, according to government sources, and both had been assured by administration officials it would never happen"

Which is why both self important morons were cut out of the loop. They had a chance to do their duty and decided to be DNC political whores instead. Come on scum. Run with this. You think the American people spanked you in 2002 and 2004? Come on and show them which side you all REALLY are on. How many of US have to die before YOU self important Democrat activist morons wake up?
4 posted on 02/08/2006 8:21:48 PM PST by MNJohnnie ("Vote Democrat-We are the party of reactionary inertia".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr

forest for the trees


5 posted on 02/08/2006 8:22:03 PM PST by wildcatf4f3 (the friend of my enemy is my enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Steveone

That's alright, these stories are doing nothing but making the Dems look weak on National Security (nothing new). And the public support for the NSA program has been growing since the news first broke.


6 posted on 02/08/2006 8:24:03 PM PST by frankjr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: MNJohnnie

Sorry, but Royce Lambert has been a reliable strict constructionist, and was one of the judges who recommended the appointment of Ken Starr. Kotar-Kelly (or whatever her hyphenation is) is a Clintoon appointee.


7 posted on 02/08/2006 8:24:20 PM PST by WarEagle (This is obviously Karl Rove's fault...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Steveone

any babe who is a judge and needs to keep her maiden name has "some Issues"... either that or she has no kids and is even more stupid than Margaret Marshall (D/ S. Africa/
MA Supreme Court.

Coming from a former Babe who uses her husband's name!


8 posted on 02/08/2006 8:24:39 PM PST by acapesket (never had a vote count in all my years here)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: frankjr

I would say that most Americans would want the President to be able to get information on terrorist activity. They dont object to eavesdropping on terrorist phone calls, but the press and the Democrat hate mongers are determined to keep hammering on this till something gives.

I guess they havent seen that it isnt causing a big stir among voters , just among the regular suspects ---Bush bashers.


9 posted on 02/08/2006 8:25:11 PM PST by sgtbono2002
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr

So a possible scenario is this:

The NSA finds out that Mohammad al-Jihad in Warziristain is calling Muzar el Fatwah in the US. Turns this over to the FBI who goes to the FISA court for a warrant to do a full blown wiretap.

Isn't that how the systems is supposed to work? How the heck are we supposed to find out WHO to get a warrant for with out doing the preliminary work?

The MSM is spinning this so that it would appear to be illegal to even put together a list of suspects.


10 posted on 02/08/2006 8:26:02 PM PST by PogySailor (Semper Fi to the 3/1 H&S Company in Haditha.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr
Do people understand that there is a war going on???

You do mean the war being waged by Democrats against President Bush, don't you?

11 posted on 02/08/2006 8:29:29 PM PST by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr
Colleen Kollar-Kotelly

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Colleen Kollar-Kotelly (born 1943 in New York) is a judge for the United States District Court for the District of Columbia and the presiding judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC).

Kollar-Kotelly obtained her J.D. from the Catholic University of America's Columbus School of Law in 1968. From 1969 to 1972, Kollar-Kotelly was an attorney for the Department of Justice, after which she became chief legal counsel for St. Elizabeths Hospital.

In 1984, Kollar-Kotelly was appointed as an associate judge of the D.C. Superior Court. She served as deputy presiding judge from 1995 until her appointment to the federal bench by President Bill Clinton was confirmed in March of 1997. In May 2002, Chief Justice William Rehnquist appointed Judge Kollar-Kotelly to serve as the presiding judge of the FISC.

In August 2001, Kollar-Kotelly received national attention when she was chosen to preside over the appeal in United States v. Microsoft, an anti-trust case. The decision was reversed in part and upheld in part.

12 posted on 02/08/2006 8:29:55 PM PST by CHUCKfromCAL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MNJohnnie

Exactly - I read this and say "bureaucratic bozos are trying to create extra barriers for intel agencies desperately trying to track down the perps of the next 9/11 before it happens." Oh, my, the FISA warrant process has to be so puuuuuuurrrrrre, and if we have vital counter-terrorist info derived from secret NSA monitoring of TERRORISTS we cannot use it to obtain a legal warrant for other kinds of monitoring.

In other words, these DNC-hacks would rather see thousands of Americans slaughtered in the next 9/11 than allow a FISA warrant to be based in any way upon vital information obtained by the NSA.

The implication for these bozos is: (1) we may know that X is part of an active Al Qaeda cell in the USA preparing to kill thousands, BUT (2) our hands are tied because the info was obtained from the NSA monitoring terrorist phone numbers obtained in some raid in Afghanistan, etc. (3) we'll just wait until X and his cell kill thousands, and then wail about how the Bush administration failed to "connect the dots"......

This is foolish, obtuse, PRE-9/11 thinking.


13 posted on 02/08/2006 8:30:51 PM PST by Enchante (Democrats: "We are ALL broken and worn out, our party & ideas, what else is new?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: frankjr

Wait a minute Your Honor. Do I have this right? We were monitoring the enemy's wireless communications and found out they were talking a lot to somebody in the United States. So, we came to you for a warrant. Now, you say we can't have the warrant because the information that forms the basis for the request for a warrant was obtained without a warrant?

Cousin Vinnie


14 posted on 02/08/2006 8:37:11 PM PST by csn vinnie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr
"Both judges had insisted that no information obtained this way be used to gain warrants from their court, according to government sources, and both had been assured by administration officials it would never happen."

Ah Dah! That's why it was called warrant less and besides the judges never said that gathering the info was illegal just that it didn't meet the courts standard for getting a warrant. This is why the Judiciary is not involved in military operations.
15 posted on 02/08/2006 8:37:17 PM PST by Wasanother (Terrorist come in many forms but all are RATS.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: frankjr
I really do think the Dems should just go ahead an pass a 'Terrorist Bill of Rights' so we can end all the B.S. stories and leaks. Do people understand that there is a war going on???

The Libs and most DemonRATs do NOT believe there is a WOT. So yes, just go ahead and pass a Terrorist Bill of Rights - we can save a hell of a lot of hearing time on the Hill. Let Congress get back to work - ha ha

16 posted on 02/08/2006 8:37:54 PM PST by p23185
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mo1; Peach; Howlin; Ernest_at_the_Beach; onyx

OH FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD ANOTHER LEAK!


17 posted on 02/08/2006 8:38:45 PM PST by hipaatwo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WarEagle
Judge Kotelly
Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly Judge Kollar-Kotelly was appointed to the United States District Court in May 1997.  She received a B.A. in 1965 from The Catholic University of America and a J.D. in 1968 from Columbus School of Law, The Catholic University of America.  Following law school, she served as law clerk to Judge Catherine B. Kelly of the District of Columbia Court of Appeals.  From 1969 to 1972, Judge Kollar-Kotelly was an attorney in the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice and then served as the chief legal counsel to Saint Elizabeths Hospital until 1984.  She was appointed Associate Judge of the D.C. Superior Court in October 1984, and served as Deputy Presiding Judge of the Criminal Division from 1995 until her appointment to the federal bench.  Judge Kollar-Kotelly has been a Fellow of the American Bar Association, a founding member of the Thurgood Marshall Inn of Court, an adjunct professor at Georgetown University School of Medicine in a joint teaching program on mental health and the law, and chair of the Board of the Art Trust for Superior Court.  Judge Kotelly was appointed by Chief Justice Rehnquist to serve as a member of the Judicial Conference Committee on Financial Disclosure from June 2000 through May 2002, and in May 2002 Chief Justice Rehnquist appointed Judge Kotelly to serve as Presiding Judge of the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court , which is a 7-year appointment.

18 posted on 02/08/2006 8:39:14 PM PST by crushelits
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: WarEagle
Amazing the same people who squealed the loudest about our failure to prevent 9-11 NOW are doing ever-thing in their power to return us to a 9-10-01 posture. So after finally tearing down Gorlick's stupid wall we will replace it with a Kotar-Kelly wall so the "Civil Libertines" can pat themselves on the back for their ideological purity until we can one day watch Miami or LA or Seattle vanish in a nuke fireball.

You do NOT have a Constitutionally protect right to commit treason. The minute they started playing footsie with Al Qeda they were NO longer protected as members of our Civil Society but were OUR ENEMIES as any even marginally sane Adult Judge should of instinctively KNOWN.

19 posted on 02/08/2006 8:40:11 PM PST by MNJohnnie ("Vote Democrat-We are the party of reactionary inertia".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: hipaatwo; Miss Marple; Mo1; BigSkyFreeper



Have a look at this!

Sorry, I hit private message in error.
Ignore the mail...lol.


20 posted on 02/08/2006 8:43:03 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: onyx

And looks who's complaining, James A. Baker.


21 posted on 02/08/2006 8:44:52 PM PST by hipaatwo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: frankjr

this is exactly why the 9-11 commission, apparently one of the few issues they got right, identified the FISA court as a major problem. this court wants to make the constitution a suicide pact, wants to make it impossible to do any pro-active law enforcement regading terrorism. all courts are essentially "after the crime" institutions - designed to deal with issues that occur AFTER a crime is commited. with terrorism, the people want it stopped before it happens, and the judicial system is not structured to support that.


22 posted on 02/08/2006 8:45:12 PM PST by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hipaatwo
He alerted Kollar-Kotelly, who complained to Justice, prompting a temporary suspension of the NSA spying program, the sources said.

They had the program shut down????

23 posted on 02/08/2006 8:46:59 PM PST by Mo1 (Republicans protect Americans from Terrorists.. Democrats protect Terrorists from Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Enchante
This is foolish, obtuse, PRE-9/11 thinking

You just nailed it. This would be funny if it were not so utterly stupid and dangerous. I am beginning to think every FISA court act should be proceeded by the judges being required to watch 45 minutes of video of Americans jump burning to their death from the Twin Towers or listening to a tape of the cell phone calls from the planes. Maybe THAT would wake them up to the fact this is NOT some Law School role playing game in Judaical purity being played out here.

24 posted on 02/08/2006 8:47:22 PM PST by MNJohnnie ("Vote Democrat-We are the party of reactionary inertia".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: hipaatwo


I'm trying to discern which way Royce Lamberth was leaning. I always liked him.


25 posted on 02/08/2006 8:47:23 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: frankjr

at least this article is telling us something we had wondered - the chief judge is actually acknowledging that this court was making it harder to obtain warrants.

"...prompted Kollar-Kotelly to issue a stern order to government lawyers to create a better firewall or face more difficulty obtaining warrants"


26 posted on 02/08/2006 8:47:27 PM PST by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hipaatwo
Yep, this story reaks of politically motivated leaks to try to spin the issue in the press. Somehow, when these judges were pissed off that Clinton was inventing new "constitutional rights" like Secret Service Privilege we didn't get a single leaked story to the NYT or WaPo questioning how illegal those claims were and how the constitution was being bastardized.

But now, a few judges are whining because we are wiretapping terrorists? Hey, here's an idea. The WH just doesn't bother to go to the FISA court for any reason in the future. That would solve everybodies problem. The judges don't want 'tainted' evidence in FISA application and the WH doesn't want to have to submit to FISA for every freaking thing it does. Sounds like an easy solution is just to skip FISA unless we are working on a criminal case and the evidence needs to be admissible.

27 posted on 02/08/2006 8:48:10 PM PST by bpjam (Now accepting liberal apologies.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: MNJohnnie
Come on scum. Run with this. You think the American people spanked you in 2002 and 2004? Come on and show them which side you all REALLY are on. How many of US have to die before YOU self important Democrat activist morons wake up?

You're a spiker, aren't you? Does anybody post comments like that for real? Best laugh I had all day!

28 posted on 02/08/2006 8:48:28 PM PST by mumps
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: crushelits

why Rehnquist selected her, I have no idea. he slipped up, bigtime.


29 posted on 02/08/2006 8:48:32 PM PST by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Mo1; onyx

I don't know what to say anymore. They're gonna get us killed. I want to call the Justice tomorrow and scream STOP THE LEAKS!


30 posted on 02/08/2006 8:49:01 PM PST by hipaatwo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Mo1; Howlin
From the article:

Baker declined to comment through an office assistant, who referred questions about his FISA work to a Justice Department spokesman.

If the Justice Department lawyer refuses to comment, how does the WaPo know what he thinks or how he expressed any reservations about the program?

The reported source for this article is "government officials familiar with the program". I'll give you two guesses about which committee held a closed door breifing on intelligence matters today. They meet again tomorrow, according to their website.
31 posted on 02/08/2006 8:49:14 PM PST by conservative in nyc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: oceanview

If FISA doesn't allow for constitutional authorities, like article 2, then FISA becomes unconstitutional because they can't trump the constitution without a congressionally passed amendment. It appears that Gonzales was right about FISA being limited in authorities.


32 posted on 02/08/2006 8:49:58 PM PST by Wasanother (Terrorist come in many forms but all are RATS.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: onyx

Goofball! I checked my mail first and thought WTF? LOL!!


33 posted on 02/08/2006 8:50:29 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Proud to be a cotton-pickin' Republican on the GOP Plantation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Mo1
They had the program shut down????

I think that was, as the New York Times would say "previously known".
34 posted on 02/08/2006 8:50:34 PM PST by conservative in nyc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: oceanview
"courts are essentially "after the crime" institutions"

A brilliantly insightful observation OV. The legal system is fundamentally incapable of dealing with this. Bush is Right. Terrorism will have to be treated as a problem that falls under the President's duties as Commander in Chief. Neither the Judiciary nor the Legislative is competent or structured to deal with it sufficiently
35 posted on 02/08/2006 8:50:47 PM PST by MNJohnnie ("Vote Democrat-We are the party of reactionary inertia".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: hipaatwo; Mo1


Our enemy within. Damn them.


36 posted on 02/08/2006 8:51:40 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: frankjr

They only engage in this activity, because there are no consequences for doing so. Executing a few guilty US Senators would reduce the number of leaks most significantly.


37 posted on 02/08/2006 8:52:07 PM PST by TheDon (The Democratic Party is the party of TREASON!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csn vinnie
Wait a minute Your Honor. Do I have this right? We were monitoring the enemy's wireless communications and found out they were talking a lot to somebody in the United States. So, we came to you for a warrant. Now, you say we can't have the warrant because the information that forms the basis for the request for a warrant was obtained without a warrant?

That sums it up

Let thousands be killed ... because terrorists have civil rights and the courts are going to protect them

38 posted on 02/08/2006 8:52:11 PM PST by Mo1 (Republicans protect Americans from Terrorists.. Democrats protect Terrorists from Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: BigSkyFreeper


Hold your horsies! I corrected my error!


39 posted on 02/08/2006 8:52:22 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: frankjr
The revelations infuriated U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly

What an activist --tch:

The coming crackdown on blogging

US suspends 'war on terror' trials after court ruling

Now Judges Are Leaking

Judge: Cuba Detainees Must Have Lawyers

40 posted on 02/08/2006 8:53:20 PM PST by demlosers (Kerry: "Impeach Bush, filibuster Alito, withdraw from Iraq, send U235 to Iran, elect me President!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: onyx

I can't believe how reckless the left has become.


41 posted on 02/08/2006 8:53:25 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Proud to be a cotton-pickin' Republican on the GOP Plantation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: conservative in nyc
The reported source for this article is "government officials familiar with the program". I'll give you two guesses about which committee held a closed door breifing on intelligence matters today. They meet again tomorrow, according to their website.

I said on another thread that it would be less then 24 hours before the leaks started coming

42 posted on 02/08/2006 8:53:49 PM PST by Mo1 (Republicans protect Americans from Terrorists.. Democrats protect Terrorists from Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MNJohnnie
I seriously doubt any part of this program was focused on obtaining Warrants, it was focused on stopping Terrorists attacks. If we wanted a Warrant, we would have used the FISA Court.

from what I have read, this NSA Terrorists surveillance program was not about law enforcement, it is about monitoring the enemy within

43 posted on 02/08/2006 8:53:52 PM PST by MJY1288 (THE DEMOCRATS OFFER NOTHING FOR THE FUTURE AND THEY LIE ABOUT THE PAST)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mo1


Gamesmanship and the game is too damn dangerous.


44 posted on 02/08/2006 8:54:31 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: conservative in nyc
I don't remember the NYT reporting that .. they just claims warrants were denied

There was nothing about the program itself being "shut down"

45 posted on 02/08/2006 8:56:01 PM PST by Mo1 (Republicans protect Americans from Terrorists.. Democrats protect Terrorists from Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Mo1

maybe the nerve gas scare will shake some of these idiots up. although it was a false alarm, it could easily have been real (like the anthrax attacks). maybe they will think to themselves - "the enemy is out there, and they could pull off an attack like this, maybe we better get serious about thwarting it".


46 posted on 02/08/2006 8:56:01 PM PST by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: onyx

LOL!


47 posted on 02/08/2006 8:56:06 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Proud to be a cotton-pickin' Republican on the GOP Plantation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: BigSkyFreeper


They'll only get worse. Guaranteed.

And, I am tired of hearing that it's only the "far left" because it's the whole of the GD democrat party.


48 posted on 02/08/2006 8:56:19 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Mo1

yup, its them.


49 posted on 02/08/2006 8:57:39 PM PST by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: onyx

Risking the safety of the nation all for the expressed purpose of regaining power. That's what all this is about.


50 posted on 02/08/2006 8:59:25 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Proud to be a cotton-pickin' Republican on the GOP Plantation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-89 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson