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Anticreationism legislation in Wisconsin
National Center for Science Education ^ | 08 February 2006 | Staff

Posted on 02/09/2006 4:08:37 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: PatrickHenry
One after the other, Eastern European states turned to communism in the 50s and 60s. the same thing is happening in the U.S. There are certain states that have gone the way of communist type socialism.

Those states are: Wisconsin, California, Massachusetts, Washington State, Oregon and a few large population centers such as New York City, Loss Angeles and up into the Northeast corridor.

These are the states that one would think are less liable to go socialist. Nevertheless, there you are.
21 posted on 02/09/2006 5:31:01 AM PST by R.W.Ratikal
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To: Varda

Gee, I wonder what she'd say about the fact that my child is being told in her earth science class that Florida will be under water in the next 5 years.


22 posted on 02/09/2006 5:38:19 AM PST by Mygirlsmom (You can either despair that the rose bush has thorns-or rejoice that the thorn bush has roses.)
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To: R.W.Ratikal
One after the other, Eastern European states turned to communism in the 50s and 60s.

I thought Communism was imposed on Eastern Europe by the occupying Soviet Union in the late '40s.

the same thing is happening in the U.S. There are certain states that have gone the way of communist type socialism.

Most of the heavy lifting had already been done by the New Deal and the Great Society via the new and improved (sarcasm) Commerce Clause.

23 posted on 02/09/2006 5:53:41 AM PST by Ken H
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To: PatrickHenry
I don't know about string theory...

Mash here.

24 posted on 02/09/2006 6:15:00 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: ironwoodchuck
"Every attempt so far to create macroevolution in the lab has failed. Such a law if strictly enforced would be the end of evolution."

Speciation has been directly observed. Evolution is tested every time a fossil is excavated. The Big Bang theory can be tested, as can plate tectonics. YEC has been tested and found wanting; ID is untestable (though IC, which really is unrelated, is testable). Hope that clears things up for ya. :)
25 posted on 02/09/2006 6:16:02 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: All
People ... it's true that Wisconsin has a history of odd politics, but this isn't an example of that. There's nothing socialistic or communistic or fascistic about science; and there's nothing American about theocracy. From my homepage:
Science appeals to the conservative mind for the same reasons that free enterprise does. It's reality-based, it focuses on what works, it rejects failed concepts, and it produces results. Both science and free enterprise flourish where there is a minimum of governmental interference. Science is one of the precious few examples of rationality in human experience. Another is the American Revolution.

American conservatism, which seeks to preserve and build on the wisdom of the Founders, is inherently rational at its intellectual base. No one can read the writings of Jefferson, Franklin, and the other Founders without immediately coming to that conclusion. This is also true of the Framers of the US Constitution. The conservative movement in America is and always has been rational. Any assault on rationality is not only anti-conservative, it is also anti-American.

Rationality is the foundation of America and the essence of Western Civilization -- as vital as life and liberty


26 posted on 02/09/2006 6:16:08 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Mygirlsmom

My son was taught that the earth was a "living organism", was fundamentally female and that people were harming her.


27 posted on 02/09/2006 6:18:44 AM PST by Varda
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Speciation has been directly observed.

If you adjust your terminology sufficiently, that can appear to work, i.e. if you use the word species to mean microevolution. MACROEVOLUTION, that is the production of a new KIND of animal, with new kinds of organs and a new basic model for existence, has never been observed in nature nor produced in the lab despite massive efforts to do so as was the case with fruit fly experiments. The so-called theory of evolution is about macroevolution and not microevolution. Nobody argues microevolution.

28 posted on 02/09/2006 6:21:23 AM PST by ironwoodchuck
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Right. I knew there was stuff about tests for string theory out there. I think we even had a thread on it last year.


29 posted on 02/09/2006 6:22:40 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Well said. The Founders even put it in the Constitution:

The Congress shall have Power...

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

--Art.I, Sec.8, Cl.8

30 posted on 02/09/2006 6:28:08 AM PST by Ken H
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To: Baxter4562

Not in the terms of a scientific theory. THere is no evidence or testable predictions behind creationism. There is a lot of evidence supporting evolution and various aspects of evolution have been tested.


31 posted on 02/09/2006 6:30:59 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: All
Help for new visitors to the evolution debate
Another service of Darwin Central, the conspiracy that cares.

If you're interested in learning about evolution, visit The List-O-Links.
If you'd like to understand the concept of speciation, visit Micro-evolution, Macro-evolution, and Speciation.
If you're serious about debating this issue, see How to argue against a scientific theory.
If you're permanently stuck on stupid, but determined to post anyway, use the Evolution Troll's Toolkit.

32 posted on 02/09/2006 6:32:46 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: ironwoodchuck
Sorry, you don't get to invent ad hoc concepts. You are required to address the issue of evolution, not "macro"evolution.

You can start by swearing off new flu shots (the flu virus is exactly like God made it, forever and ever, amen) and leave an extra one for somebody else.

33 posted on 02/09/2006 6:35:38 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: ironwoodchuck
" If you adjust your terminology sufficiently, that can appear to work, i.e. if you use the word species to mean microevolution."

No, I mean a new species.

"MACROEVOLUTION, that is the production of a new KIND of animal, ..."

There is no such thing as a *kind* of organism; *kind* is a made up word with no scientific meaning.
34 posted on 02/09/2006 6:36:58 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: ironwoodchuck
MACROEVOLUTION, that is the production of a new KIND of animal, with new kinds of organs and a new basic model for existence, has never been observed in nature nor produced in the lab

What's a "kind"?

35 posted on 02/09/2006 6:37:46 AM PST by atlaw
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To: PatrickHenry

The "UNKANSAS"? What a hoot.


36 posted on 02/09/2006 6:54:59 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: ironwoodchuck

Here's two:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1343600/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1351793/posts

Read 'em and weep.


37 posted on 02/09/2006 6:57:42 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: PatrickHenry

Gotta hand it to you PH. You can get the roaches scurrying faster than anyone else.


38 posted on 02/09/2006 7:03:26 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: furball4paws
Gotta hand it to you PH. You can get the roaches scurrying faster than anyone else.

No trick to it. Just turn on the light. Happens every time.

39 posted on 02/09/2006 7:17:07 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Baxter4562
Scientifically speaking creation and evolution are both theories. Neither can be proven nor disproved therefore either teach both or don't teach them.

Wrong. Take a look at these definitions (from a google search):

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"

Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics"

Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

Model: a simplified framework designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process

Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence)

Observation: any information collected with the senses

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith

Faith: the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or reason

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof

Religion: (theistic): "1 the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2 the expression of this in worship. 3 a particular system of faith and worship." Non-Theistic: "The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life."

Impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

Based on these, evolution is a theory. CS and ID are beliefs.

[Last revised 1/2/06]

40 posted on 02/09/2006 7:19:25 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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