Posted on 02/18/2006 2:10:08 PM PST by Atlantic Bridge
ok, thanks for your reply
People have said the same thing about the US, and it's just as false when applied to Turkey. Hell, it's less false, the Turks have less potential to do damage than we do.
With Turkey, it seems a matter of picking your poison: extreme nationalism or Islamic fundamentalism.
Again, one could falsely generalize in the same manner about the US. Turkey is a proud country with a proud history, and they are by no means all either religious lunatics or psychotic nationalists.
I'm hoping there's a third way - maybe if those Europeans let them into the Union of European Socialist Republics (EU) they'll calm down a bit.
The EU won't let Turkey in for quite a while, if ever. Too much work to be done on the Kurdish question on the part of the Turks, and too much fear of swarthy easterners on the part of Europe.
Those Turkish soldiers captured in Iraq were special ops types trying to stir up trouble in Mosul between the Turkomen minority and the Kurds. They were up to no good and we should have shot them.
Turkey is an important ally. I knew several Turks (in Germany) and they were all very European. I suspect that most Turks are not like the ones clapping in the movie. I do think that the Turks did not like us going into Iraq.
The Kurds in Turk probably like us (1/5 of the people in Turkey are Kurdish).
Actually, American feelings should be troubled about Turks, since at the last minute, Turkey denied us a pre-agreed upon permission to cross their territory, resulting in many more deaths all around.
However, I will tell you the people I think are absolutely inexcusable in this: the two American actors.
No.
There are a lot of Turks who DO appreciate America.
Turkey is very unpredictable. My father spent many years there (working for an American company) after WWII and into the 1960s and had to leave every so often when anti-Americanism took over.
I think there are probably some people in the Muslim world who just want to live a nice normal life in a nice normal country, and Turkey, because its population is almost entirely conquered Christian populations that were subjugated to Islam many centuries ago, probably retains a bit of its former glory and has a number of these people.
However, it also has a violent stream of pro-Islamists it has only barely been able to keep down in recent times, and that only with severe repression. I think once again, alas, Turkey is going to stay true to its Islamic heritage of violence and dysfunctionality.
Everyone needs to look at Turkey because this is what the rest of Europe will be like in the future. Islam is the only religion thriving in the EU and europe has a very large and growing muslim population. I am just glad I live on the other side of the atlantic not connected to all those old countries with to much history in between them.
True, but then we are talking about moslem country. They give a whole new dimension to "ignorance".
Turkey is pretty much a goner, and the West should begin to consider it at best unreliable, and more realistically, as an emerging enemy. It will be "moderate" only until the radical islamo-filth infiltrate the officer corps of the military. That won't be long, now that their hopes for EU membership are dead.
I hope we haven't left any sensitive NATO weaponry there, as it will be turned against us in the not too distant future if we did. Too bad. Turkey had a chance, but they have blown it bigtime.
Really. And you know this how?
I disagree, however, that people internalize movies simply as entertainment, and I am generally pessimistic about our future relations with Turkey.
Thanx.I hope both their careers are finished,but these days who knows?Gary Busey,best actor in a foreign film?sarc intended.
All this "Eurabia" propaganda is BS. It is correct that we have a problem with young muslims in our country since they are usually undereducated and unemployed. This is the reason why they get aggressive - just as some minorities in the US (do you remember the Los Angeles riots in 1992?). But there is one thing for sure: They will not take over the power here. Most Turks in Germany are assimilated, peaceful and decent people. I employ some in my own business and I know what I am talking about. The much more fanatic Islamiacs come usually from northern Africa or Pakistan. Their part in our German populace is nearly zero. That does not mean that we have to ignore the problem but we should get the right dimensions.
The thing is, that maybe 3% (this is a extremly high supposition) of the German Turks are extreme, dangerous islamists that are willing to spread their religion with all means. Today we have a population of 82,431,390 people in Germany. 2.4% are etnic Turks. That means that we have 1,978,113 Turks living in my country and 59,363 are extreme islamists. Therefore we have to deal with some foul 0,072% of our population.
Even if 20% of our Turkish compatriots would tend to dangerous ideas we had a problem with 0,48% of our population. It will take 68 times of their current number (which is over-, over-, over-, overstated in this worst case supposition) until they reach 1/3 of all Germans.
You can check all those numbers in the CIA factbook: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gm.html
Can you imagine how ridicoulos the whole discussion about "Eurarabia", "Dhimmitude" and "Muslim toppling of Europe" from the German view is? The "Valley of the wolves" is more a nationalistic issue although they use also religious elements.
You said: Islam is the only religion thriving in the EU
This is ridicolous since Islam in Europe is restricted to muslim immigrants. Native Europeans are either catholic, protestant or are absolutely not interested in religion. Islam has simply no chance to inspire native Europeans (exept of some very few idiots).
You can believe me since I am a real insider living in good old Europe.
We shall see. The cia also predicted the EU will fall apart by 2020. The fact of the matter is the whites are not populating enough and the muslims are going to be a huge vocal minority if not the majority one day. Church going in europe is at an all time low while islam is quickly on the rise there. I honestly hope it doesnt happen and that europe wakes up to the danger that is coming.
I think the Turks would LIKE that film too. A lot of exploitation cinema works its way there.
Then again, they aren't shy about just ripping off whatever Western film they want...
BuHuHaHa! I do some whining in advance. It is mollifying that you Americans are so deeply concerned over the near collapse of our continent. This discussion seems to be somehow related with the prediction of the apocalypse through the Jehovah's Witnesses. As far as I know they did that 4 or 5 times and nothing happened. Maybe they should read the bible a bit more closely.
The fact of the matter is the whites are not populating enough and the muslims are going to be a huge vocal minority if not the majority one day.
The fact of the matter is, that the muslims have to reproduce themselves like rabbits until they would reach a significant mass to "takeover" Europe. This is definitly not the case since muslim women found out about the pill in the meantime (Yea - they are not different from their christian sisters on this issue...). In the moment they usually do not get more than two or three kids in Germany. The contemporary muslim immigration is restricted to subsequent immigration of the family members of Turks who already live in Germany. The largest immigration into Germany comes out of Russia, Ukraine and Poland in the moment. I.e. there are more jews immigrating into Germany than into Israel in the meantime.
BTW - there are many more effects that slow such a muslim invasion "over the whomb" down.
1. A large part of those muslim kids who are born in western Europe adopt completely the attitudes of their native European buddys and ignore religion and nationalism totally. They are simply not interested in Allah or some other religion anymore.
2. The kids of the immigrants are usually out of the lower class. This means that most of them are undereducated and not able to take over responsible positions. The recent riots in France i.e. were made by total idiots who were dumb enough not to leave their own Banlieue. So they burned the cars of mummy and daddy instead of attacking the French establishment. Do you really think that a dumb gang of idiots can take over our systems? BS.
3. Most of the Muslims in Germany are friendly and decent people. They are simply not interested to spread their religion with all means.
There is indeed a small number of scum we Europeans have to deal with. The good thing is that the recent events will work against them because the European security is getting aware of the problem. Believe it or not - We Germans have a good police and a effective and powerful secret service for the interior (Bundesverfassungsschutz).
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