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Whatever happened to the cold drinks?
New York Times ^ | February 21, 2006 | KENNETH CHANG

Posted on 02/20/2006 10:31:33 PM PST by raygun

Here is one question that probably won't cross the minds of Sasha Cohen, Irina Slutskaya and the other Olympic women figure skaters today, even if they fall: Why is ice slippery?

The explanation once commonly dispensed in textbooks turns out to be wrong. And slipperiness is just one of the unanswered puzzles about ice. Besides the everyday ice that you slip on, there are about a dozen other forms, some of which experts suspect exist in the hot interior of Earth or on the surface of Pluto.

[snip]

Ice, said Robert M. Rosenberg, an emeritus professor of chemistry at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wis., and a visiting scholar at Northwestern University, "is a very mysterious solid."

[the above snipped out of a two page article]

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: brainfreeze; cool; drinks; foreignaffairs; ice; slurpee; truthstrangernfictn
Some of you may be confused why I listed one of the keywords being foreignaffairs, well, years ago I was a weekend-warrior and I was tentatively assigned to PCS to Alaska should hostilities have broken out betwixt the U.S. & the former U.S.S.R. So it shouldn't really be all that mysterious: ice, cold-war, Alaska, get it?

Then I was going to post it in culture/philosophy because I have the "Yer Album"

Being a veteran Freep-poster, I understand it is extremely bad form not to perform the perfunctory search to see if its already been posted. Much to my glee I discover that nobody has posted this cool little tid-bit. Moreover, I discovered Blam's post about the same way cool topic as mine.

Enjoy!

1 posted on 02/20/2006 10:31:36 PM PST by raygun
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To: RightWhale

ping


2 posted on 02/20/2006 10:32:59 PM PST by raygun
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To: raygun

Cheers!

3 posted on 02/20/2006 10:38:09 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

''What do you think of it?'' I asked him.

''It's black. What is it -- hell?''

''It means whatever it means,'' said Newt.

''Then it's hell,'' snarled Castle.

''I was told a moment ago that it was a cat's cradle,'' I said.

''Inside information always helps,'' said Castle.

''I don't think it's very nice,'' Angela complained. ''I think it's ugly, but I don't know anything about modern art. Sometimes I wish Newt would take lessons, so he could know for sure if he was doing something or not.''

''Self-taught, are you?'' Julian Castle asked Newt.

''Isn't everybody?'' New inquired.

''Very good answer.'' Castle was respectful.


4 posted on 02/20/2006 10:45:35 PM PST by raygun
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To: All; blam
I'll tell y'all one thing: ice is one facinating substance. It is simultaneously the blackest and whitest body known.

It is the whitest substance known in that its albedo is uniformly high across the whole spectrum (reflecting all electromagnetic radiation with equal vigor), however, it absorbs IR like nothing else known (and so is a perfect blackbody. Its plausible that I could be wrong on all that (considering that I'm self taught on all that). But that notwithstanding, water is some pretty wonderfully facinating stuff.

E.g. if but for that little density hook thing, no life on this planet could exist (all the lakes would freeze solid ffom bottom up). I'm certain this would cause no shortage of consternation to would-be ice fisherman.

5 posted on 02/20/2006 11:03:25 PM PST by raygun
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To: raygun

I don't skate but both of my kids play ice hockey. They talk about 'soft' ice & 'hard' ice...soft ice is slow, hard ice is fast and they get their skate blades ground accordingly.


6 posted on 02/20/2006 11:26:32 PM PST by elli1
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To: raygun

..and the only substance which increases in volume when it freezes.

my 0.02$


7 posted on 02/20/2006 11:27:48 PM PST by Banjoguy (I refuse to 'Google' anything at anytime.)
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To: Banjoguy

Yeah, water is pretty amazing stuff. Without it, life as we know it wouldn't exist. And the probability of it existing in liquid form is very remote. Earth is indeed a privileged planet.


8 posted on 02/20/2006 11:48:44 PM PST by DeweyCA
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To: elli1
I'm a skier, and I've been watching the Olympics this evening/morning.

What you said. Even so I've been bronzed by NASTAR (100/1000ths out from the silver in my age group at the time (about 10 years ago), I truly understand what you said. Anybody that knows anything about NASTAR will understand that the benchmark standard doesn't change a whole lot (although some accomodation is given) with respect to age.

One thing that I disticntly remember struggling with: the ruts. The ski-chatter was absolutely fear inspiring. I found out afterwards that those ruts were the prima facie cause for ACL knee-surgury for any serious skier. I like skiing, but I guess I'm not that serious. As in any sport, one has to be willing to give what it takes.

My hat's off to all of these athletes (even the people who finished last). That is most especially appropriate to some of the woman skiers (anybody notice how thick their thighs are?). I'll tell you this with utmost frankness: you gave it your all, and reached Deep INTO yourself to find more and only to find "nothing". That's cool in my book, because you went to the mountain (I didn't).

I know the text-books are wrong, because I've recently become involved in F1 racing simulation. Almost all of the material about tires is wrong. Wider tires does NOT make one faster. Wider tires does something, but not what is conventionally thought.

Anyways, I hope that y'all thought the matter to be as cool as I did. I've read so MUCH cool stuff on this board that my mind swims. Sometimes you just have to give back.

9 posted on 02/21/2006 12:31:21 AM PST by raygun
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To: Banjoguy

.and the only substance which increases in volume when it freezes.



I know one other that increases in volume when hardened.


10 posted on 02/21/2006 12:36:29 AM PST by WKB
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To: DeweyCA

Earth is indeed a privileged planet




Yeah that evolution was really thinking ahead.


11 posted on 02/21/2006 12:38:14 AM PST by WKB
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To: raygun
But that notwithstanding, water is some pretty wonderfully facinating stuff.

In addition to its characteristics as ice, it also has some uniques qualities in the high temperature ranges also.

12 posted on 02/21/2006 12:42:09 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

"I don't know rabbit, you might be right"


13 posted on 02/21/2006 12:55:38 AM PST by raygun
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To: raygun

As steam it can hold extremely high temperatures. It is called super heated steam.


14 posted on 02/21/2006 1:27:54 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

I think that somebody wrote something or another 'bout some cheshire cat (waht I now - I'm merely self taught). Hey, I'm trying to promote some image here (so bear with me even if its not workin').


15 posted on 02/21/2006 2:01:20 AM PST by raygun
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To: raygun

Oops, didn't mean to step on your shadow. I am rapidly becoming self untaught.


16 posted on 02/21/2006 3:03:31 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
As steam it can hold extremely high temperatures. It is called super heated steam.

"Latent Heat of Vaporization", look it up and scratch your head a little.

Heat added to Saturated steam (at a given pressure)does nothing to raise the temp of the steam. It merely transfers more steam to a superheated (Dry Steam/No Water Vapor)) state. Only then can heat be added to increase temp.

As an example this would take place in a power plant. Superheated steam would be sent through the High Pressure stage of the turbine where Temp. and pressure is (Used)reduced.

The Superheated steam would then be sent back to the Boiler to a Reheat section. Exhaust/Flue Gases would be used to raise the Temp. of the steam but not the pressure. There would actually be a pressure drop due to piping. Then back to the Turbine through a Intermediate pressure section and then a Low pressure section.

The Temp. increase that takes place in the reheat section contributes to the Enthalpy equation.

Already paid for (Obtained from Flue Gas) these temps. are essential to efficient operations. They really do mean the top end for the plant.

17 posted on 02/21/2006 7:23:12 AM PST by vikzilla
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To: raygun

Yea, but you do realize it contains the deadly, corrosive substance monohydrogen dioxide, don't you?


18 posted on 02/21/2006 7:32:02 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: raygun
A typical blade edge, which is not razor sharp, is about one-eighth of an inch wide and about 12 inches long, yielding a surface area of 1.5 square inches each or 3 square inches for two blades.

Figure skates and hockey skates have a curved blade. The pressure exerted by them would be much higher, due to the much smaller surface area in contact with the ice. I'm surprised these scientists either don't know this or failed to mention/consider it.

Yes, ice is slippery even in contact with shoes. But compare the two. You will travel much further gliding on ice skates than you will in your wingtips. There seems to be something to the pressure and/or friction angle after all.

19 posted on 02/21/2006 7:34:37 AM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: raygun
The original title for the article is: Explaining Ice: The Answers Are Slippery. Why did you change it?
20 posted on 02/21/2006 7:35:29 AM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: TChris

Not only that, but as I'm sure you know, the surface of the blade that contacts the ice is not flat side to side (ie the cross section), but concave, so that the part actually touching the ice is very thin.


21 posted on 02/21/2006 8:04:32 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: raygun

Anyone know where one can find the dozen 'forms' of ice's details? Sounds kinda fascinating


22 posted on 02/21/2006 8:09:00 AM PST by Centurion2000 ("If you're going to shoot somebody, Shoot! Don't talk!")
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To: raygun

We have been in ice conditions for several months continuously in Fairbanks. Today the temperature may go to 5 below and it is snowing a little. Yesterday the snow was falling in large flakes, today it is falling in tiny flakes and the quality is very different. There is wind today and some fogginess in the air as well. Just right to go out driving. For traction on smooth ice you need the smallest contact so the pressure of the weight is on the smallest portion of surface possible. The ice will liquify at that point, but that is also the reason for increased traction: the surface of the the ice nelts and a small crater forms instantly, and the edges of the crater provide what traction there is. If the ice is rough already, then a soft tire compound will let the tread conform to the existing irregularities and it is similar to a gear-driven machine.


23 posted on 02/21/2006 10:35:21 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: vikzilla
Thanks for the further clarification. I may have known all that at one time as I learned the little I know from selling water clarification systems, and later cogeneration systems, to power plants and others (Petrochem plants, refineries, paper mills, etc.) using large quantities of water in their processes.

It was always nice to find an application that could use the waste heat rather than the continuing cycle of heat, reheat, then cool, etc.

24 posted on 02/21/2006 12:46:36 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Banjoguy

and the only substance which increases in volume when it freezes.

Not quite. Several metal alloys do that--notably typemetal, an alloy of antimony, bismuth, and lead. This was vital for filling all the tiny crevices in type molds (linotype machines). An alloy that shrunk as it solidified would be very poor for printing.


25 posted on 02/21/2006 1:36:03 PM PST by thomaswest (Just curious)
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To: thomaswest

Thank you, sir.


26 posted on 02/21/2006 2:13:14 PM PST by Banjoguy (I refuse to 'Google' anything at anytime.)
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To: TChris

I would be accused of lying if I said, "Nobody ever called me a strange bird."


27 posted on 02/25/2006 7:36:03 PM PST by raygun
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To: RightWhale

I thought so: RightWhale's digging a deeper rut from within the one he's in now. He's on record saying where he lives there's no weather. Harumpf.

Oh, and tip of the hat, bottom of the night to ya there RightWhale. Only RightWhale'll understand that last part...

Heh heh heh heh (snicker, snort & chortle).


28 posted on 02/25/2006 7:40:03 PM PST by raygun
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To: raygun

What I want to know is why A&W rootbeer doesn't taste like it used to when I was a kid.


29 posted on 02/25/2006 7:48:12 PM PST by mtg
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To: mtg

I'm guessing because you're not a kid. But what do I know, I'm merely self-taught.


30 posted on 02/25/2006 7:53:29 PM PST by raygun
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To: Larry Lucido
Where did you go to school? LOL

The stuff's known as di-hydrous oxide. Then there's this stuff called heavy water. Anyways, get with the program o.k? And yes, if consumed, inhaled, or impacted in sufficient quantities (and speed) it will kill you. Its very bad stuff and should be outlawed.

Where is the government that should be looking out for the little people's best interests? Nowhere. All they do is regulate how much can be flushed at one time.

But we digress. You can't flush ice. Er, well, not a whole lot of it (unless its in a slurry mixture).

31 posted on 02/25/2006 8:07:18 PM PST by raygun
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To: raygun
The ice in the Olympic rinks is pretty thick. You won't be in danger of falling through it.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

32 posted on 02/25/2006 8:09:25 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Yeah, well that may be, however, it is my understanding that a new potential health hazard concerning ice has recently reared its ugly little head: ice-worms.

I don't think that anybody can say for certain whether they are blood-sucking ice-worms or not, but the threat is definitely there. What if Al-Qaida puts worms into all our ice? Huh? What then? Yeah, you go right ahead and drink them like some frat-boy downing goldfish. I'm going to pass, o.k?


33 posted on 02/25/2006 8:26:11 PM PST by raygun
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To: raygun
So you're probably wondering why I have this limp...

See, I meet Old Scratch and say "I'd sell my sole for the ability to be unbeatable on ice - figure skating, hockey, whatever I choose"...and he says "Sure, sign here," and so I do...and he starts laughing and laughing, so I challenge him to a face off on my frozen-over sidewalk, and he kicks my butt, and I say "You dirty welcher!" and he says "Hah...you didn't say what KIND of ice - you're only invincible on Ice VII, the kind we have in Hell!!" and I say "Well, I'm not a bad speller, you vomitous mass, I really did only offer you the bottom of my foot, like I said before..."

so now I limp.
34 posted on 02/25/2006 8:26:31 PM PST by beezdotcom
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To: beezdotcom

Did you ever see "Crossroads"? One of the characters portrayed in the movie was played by Joe Satriani.

So I'm just curious, because frankly I think you should sue Joe Satriani for your disability.


35 posted on 02/25/2006 8:32:56 PM PST by raygun
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To: All

1089 views and 34 posts is not a bad return (if I may say so myself).


36 posted on 02/25/2006 9:03:59 PM PST by raygun
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To: raygun
Did you ever see "Crossroads"? One of the characters portrayed in the movie was played by Joe Satriani.

At first, I was going to make a joke about the Britney Spears movie - but then I couldn't find him in ANY of them. Check imdb.com, and then try the joke again...
37 posted on 02/26/2006 4:28:13 AM PST by beezdotcom
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To: raygun
Did you ever see "Crossroads"? One of the characters portrayed in the movie was played by Joe Satriani.

At first, I was going to make a joke about the Britney Spears movie - but then I couldn't find him in ANY of them. Check imdb.com, and then try the joke again...
38 posted on 02/26/2006 4:28:16 AM PST by beezdotcom
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To: raygun
It is simultaneously the blackest and whitest body known.

But snow flakes are always white so Al Sharpton is threatening to sue.


BUMP

39 posted on 02/26/2006 5:27:23 AM PST by capitalist229 (Keep Democrats out of our pockets and Republicans out of our bedrooms.)
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To: raygun

The Dept of Weather [there is no weather, merely poor or good driving conditions] advised us of the 1" of snow Friday and the 2" of snow Saturday night. However, they did not advise us of the 5" of snow during the day Saturday, nor the 6" of snow during the day Sunday. Two out of four, not bad considering what we pay them.


40 posted on 02/26/2006 1:56:39 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: thomaswest
From your statement, I could infer that, theoretcialy at least, on any arbitrary planet that has bodies of liquid antimoney, bismuth & lead, people could ice-fish for watever critters would live in such a concoction? Hypothetically speaking that is...
41 posted on 03/01/2006 5:01:22 PM PST by raygun
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To: raygun
Did you ever think how fortunate we are that water's not flammable?

"Put that cigarette out! Don't you know you're on the beach?"

42 posted on 03/01/2006 5:05:26 PM PST by Richard Kimball (I like to make everyone's day a little more surreal)
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