Port Whine: Why Republicans should stop their bickering about the Dubai debacle.

Slate ^ | February 22, 2005 | John Dickerson

[CWOJackson]

Not really amazing...well thought out. Amazing the fales outrage over a non-issue.

[LK44-40]

He might have the better of the argument but, of course, he was negligent/indifferent/arrogant in not using the bully pulpit after he was awakened.

And when, instead, he popped up with this don't-you-dare-question-me attitude that we saw with his defense of the boot-licking Miers and also with the Alberto-is-my-friend-and-I-can-put-him-on-the-SCOTUS-if-I-want-to thing, and then petulantly shakes his veto pen at Republicans (never having used it against wasteful spending or anything else) , well...

honey, that really got up my nose.

[Cold Heat]

No, but China is not our friend in any sense of the word.

They are fighting us in world commerce in every market and are showing many signs of beginning a move into Latin America. Not just in commerce, but with large groups of military advisor's and support staffs.

They are doing exactly what they falsely accuse the U.S. of engaging in, and that would be efforting to control global commerce. They already have a huge leverage on the U.S. and we need not give them any more. They use every bit of leverage they have.

I cannot say this about any other foreign power.

Lastly, their military expenditures have risen dramatically and they have no other enemy to justify this with. Their enemy therefore, is us.

The UAE on the other hand is cooperating with us in a great number of ways. It already hosts our forward operating bases, and handle the bulk of our military cargo. They are a capitalistic society and have little oil, which has drawn them into the 21st century as a Islamic state. They are also the source of much of the moderate Islamic culture and that makes them key to success in modernizing Islam.

For all these reasons and many more, they are our friend in ways that China will never be, and has no intention to be. They do not wish us harm, in fact, just the opposite.

I think it's a preferable deal to any of the others and I hope it proceeds without further delays except to disseminate more information.

[Cold Heat]

All things I've read says yes, and that is reason enough for me to consider them as much an enemy as the Germans of WWII.

We have our home grown Jihadis as well. The UAE has been one of a small group of Islamic moderates who have befriended us. It is not right to spit in their eye.

This is a business decision that occurred between two legitimate foreign corporations who have no reason to harm us. Having said that, they are not in any better position to do so, even if they wished to.

Finally, as far as plots and infiltration, I think people have been taking the drama series "24", much to seriously, just as they did all the forensic evidence TV shows that have somehow given everybody the false idea that all the stuff they do can be done by criminologist's in every American city.

It's all simply not true and a product of a imaginative mind.

[commonerX]

"""We have our home grown Jihadis as well. The UAE has been one of a small group of Islamic moderates who have befriended us. It is not right to spit in their eye."""

You are being fooled by a group of people that has as a religious doctrine to either convert you or kill you. They are only moderate until the religious clerics say otherwise.

"""This is a business decision that occurred between two legitimate foreign corporations who have no reason to harm us. Having said that, they are not in any better position to do so, even if they wished to."""

One rule I have learned is to never do business with someone that wants to kill you. You will get the business alright. The business end of a AK47 or sword across the back of the neck.

"""Finally, as far as plots and infiltration, I think people have been taking the drama series "24", much to seriously, just as they did all the forensic evidence TV shows that have somehow given everybody the false idea that all the stuff they do can be done by criminologist's in every American city"""

Only saw 24 once and didn't like it, can stand CSI or those types of shows either.

"""It's all simply not true and a product of a imaginative mind."""

Proof please.

[commonerX]

"""No, but China is not our friend in any sense of the word."""

They may no be our friend but they don't have a religious doctrine calling for our death.

"""They are fighting us in world commerce in every market and are showing many signs of beginning a move into Latin America. Not just in commerce, but with large groups of military advisor's and support staffs.""""

All countries fight over world commerce.

"""They are doing exactly what they falsely accuse the U.S. of engaging in, and that would be efforting to control global commerce. They already have a huge leverage on the U.S. and we need not give them any more. They use every bit of leverage they have"""

I agree but I will take a fight over global commerce rather then a fight because I don't have the same beliefs.

"""Lastly, their military expenditures have risen dramatically and they have no other enemy to justify this with. Their enemy therefore, is us.""""

I am not crazy about that either, but any country that doesn't increase its military expenditure allows themselves to be vulnerable to attack buy another country even if it is us they fear.

They have the same fears as any country would with regard to other countries. A powerful military is the best deterrent to being attacked. We would do the same, oops we already did.

"""For all these reasons and many more, they are our friend in ways that China will never be, and has no intention to be. They do not wish us harm, in fact, just the opposite."""

You are living in a dream world if you truly believe that.
I am convinced of one thing if the majority of people start thinking like you we will be a nonexistent country in less then 20 years.

[Cold Heat]

All this nonsense has a better chance of bringing an end to American power then allowing some UAE bureaucrats shuffle papers at a freight terminal.

It comes to mind who will take over our shipments of war material and tanks if needed again in the Gulf?

What do we do, give them the 100 mil they donated for Katrina relief and where do we relocate our forward ops bases and CIA in the region. Kuwait and the UAE are major participants in our side of the war on terror....But I suppose one's religion should dictate who our friends are eh?

Nonsense!:-(

[commonerX]

"""But I suppose one's religion should dictate who our friends are eh?"""

Yeah I tend not be friendly with people that are bound by the beliefs to kill me.

I am kinda funny that way.

""" Kuwait and the UAE are major participants in our side of the war on terror....But I suppose one's religion should dictate who our friends are eh?"""

How can a country be a participant against terrorism and fund it and support Hamas at the same time. That really makes no sense.

[Cold Heat]

How can a country be a participant against terrorism and fund it and support Hamas at the same time. That really makes no sense.

All that will change in time, and it already has to a great degree in the countries we are talking about.

One thing for certain, it will never change and the war on terror will certainly fail if we do not take every opportunity to effect that change. If we isolate ourselves to pretend to feel safer, the opposite will certainly be true. History proves this contention, it is a fact.

[commonerX]

"""All that will change in time, and it already has to a great degree in the countries we are talking about."""

I say prove to us you have changed your stripes and then we will deal with you. It is never a good idea to deal with someone and hope they change their stripes.

You know what would make me believe they are our friends and not the enemy. They find Osama and turn him over to the USA. But I am not holding my breath.

Nobody is saying to become an isolationist, too many people use that term every time someone disagrees with a foreign endeavor.

The Muslims are not our friends, they have a religious doctrine that calls for our deaths if we don't convert. They are not going to change that just because we let them buy our ports.

[Vicomte13]

You wrote:
"All of these people working at the port will not be Americans. The parent Company will send people over to oversee operations and run management jobs. No foreign company is going to invest all that money with out having some of its own people there.
I don't know how many it would be but lets say it is just a dozen or so per port.
These people will have family back home. The terrorist know this. They can and have taken their own people hostage to blackmail them into doing their bidding and getting information about how the security and port operations here in the USA work will be one of them. They will inform them on areas of weaknesses, laxness, and schedules with regard to security. Let them know of any holes in security or workers. They will be there everyday with access to observe these operations unlike someone just stopping nearby to spy on the port which anyone can do now. After that it may be no long in the hands of the port worker. The terrorist cell will take over operations based on the information from the worker. And of course they still have his family so they can demand him to do more. Most people would be more than willing to sacrifice their lives and wouldn't care about the company he works for if his family is being threatened. This is not a far fetched scenario and is rather simple. I am sure the terrorist can come up with much better one.

It wouldn't be the company doing the terrorist attack. it would most likely be a handful of employees that came over with the parent company. The dock workers will no nothing of this until it's too late.
Why do want this deal to go through so much? What is in it for you?
There is nothing good here but to raise the risk of another terrorist attack. Giving them access to a vital avenue to our country.
Why can't you see this?"

You wrote that several days ago, and I've been thinking about it ever since.
And I think you have a point, which I see, because you explained it to me.
It's a valid point.
I don't know if it's dispositive, but it DOES give me a concern where before I didn't have one.

You're right. There IS a security risk of some magnitude. I don't know WHAT magnitude, but some. My earlier view was that there was absolutely NO security risk, at all, and that the opposition was just political hysteria.

But I see your point.

[commonerX]

Thank you for replying.

We just need to keep a watchful eye on things now.

Who else is going to keep tabs on our government but us.

I do my best not to over blow issues. I try to make my point then leave it be. But sometimes I stay too long on it.