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Apocalypse Then
washingtonpost.com ^ | February 26, 2006 | Joshua Foer

Posted on 02/26/2006 9:39:21 PM PST by tbird5

A mysterious cataclysm almost brought about the end of the world some 250 million years ago

The last time Earth experienced a mass extinction, some 65 million years ago, at the end of the Cretaceous period, there is little doubt about what happened. A humongous meteor slammed into the Yucatan Peninsula, incinerating everything around for thousands of miles. Plumes of vaporized rock blanketed the planet in a layer of thick ash, blocking the sun and choking off photosynthesis. The entire global ecosystem virtually collapsed in a geological eye-blink.

Though the dinosaurs might find it crass to say so, the late Cretaceous cataclysm that did them in was a planetary bad hair day compared to the mass extinction that occurred some 250 million years ago, at the end of the Permian period. The Permian event is probably the closest that life on Earth ever came to being completely extinguished. Around 95 percent of marine species and 70 percent of terrestrial vertebrates were wiped out -- a greater percentage of the Earth's species than the next two largest mass extinctions combined. The break in the fossil record at the Permian boundary is so severe that 19th-century geologists saw it as evidence of two completely separate creations of life.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: extinction; godsgravesglyphs
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 02/26/2006 9:39:22 PM PST by tbird5
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To: tbird5
A mysterious cataclysm almost brought about the end of the world some 250 million years ago

Then how come we are all still here ?
2 posted on 02/26/2006 9:40:17 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: tbird5

In Intelligent Design, these mass extinctions are referred to as God's "DO OVERS"


3 posted on 02/26/2006 9:42:38 PM PST by bannedfromdu
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To: festus
Well, it did say almost.
4 posted on 02/26/2006 9:43:36 PM PST by LdSentinal
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To: festus

Because the real end of the world hasn`t happened yet. That will happen in `08 if Hillary wins.


5 posted on 02/26/2006 9:45:26 PM PST by Screamname (Tagline)
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To: tbird5

6 posted on 02/26/2006 9:45:46 PM PST by sayfer bullets
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To: Screamname

Yes, She who shall not be named, is the Anti-Christ


7 posted on 02/26/2006 9:46:38 PM PST by bannedfromdu
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To: bannedfromdu

What's fascinating about the Cretaceous mass extinction was that had that 6-mile rock hit anywhere else on the surface of the earth, there would be no mass extinction resulting. The fall targeted a huge limestone bed, the burning of which caused the nuclear winter/mass extinction that resulted. There are only two such limestone beds of similar size on earth: Yucatan, and Dover. Talk about a bullseye! (or maybe a T-rex eye, as the bull hadn't evolved yet.)

Appropos of nothing, do you know the derivation of the name "Yucatan"? It seems the Spaniards landed there in 1520, and said (in Spanish): "What is this place called?" To which the local inhabitants naturally responded: "Yectetan!" Which is the local language for "I don't understand you!" (The kangaroo got its English name by a similar process.)


8 posted on 02/26/2006 9:47:42 PM PST by Phil Connors
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To: festus

We evolved from what was left. Evolution happens..


9 posted on 02/26/2006 9:47:49 PM PST by ExtremeUnction
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To: festus
Then how come we are all still here?

Because we weren't here then.

10 posted on 02/26/2006 9:52:33 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Liberal comes from "liber" the Latin word for "free" - Liberal Republic, you know it makes sense)
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To: tbird5
A mysterious cataclysm almost brought about the end of the world some 250 million years ago

Congressional Democrats are demanding an Independent Council be appointed to investigate whether or not the Bush administration had known about it before hand and decided not to prevent it. In other news, Sandy Berger was caught today hiding fossils in his pants and trying to remove them from the national museum.

11 posted on 02/26/2006 9:56:03 PM PST by txroadkill
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To: bannedfromdu

**Yes, She who shall not be named,**


Been reading H. Rider Haggard haven't you.


12 posted on 02/26/2006 10:02:38 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Islam, the religion of the criminally insane.)
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To: tbird5

When Atlantis sank, everybody was calling that "The end of the world." My family made out pretty good selling supplies to the survivors.
But in the previous "end of the world" during the last Ice Age, my family had quite a bit of our land in what is now Greenland end up under a mile of ice.
The ice is melting now- I wonder if it's too late to file a claim to get it back.
/sarc


13 posted on 02/26/2006 10:03:42 PM PST by Ostlandr ( CONUS SITREP is foxtrot uniform bravo alfa romeo)
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To: bannedfromdu
"Yes, She who shall not be named, is the Anti-Christ"
Nah. Merely the third horn of the Beast, although some authorities hold that she is the left rear hoof.
14 posted on 02/26/2006 10:06:50 PM PST by GSlob
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
LOL........no, Haggard's AISHA (sp?) was "she who must be obeyed"; which is where the line about Rumpole's wife came from.

The other, posted by another, is strictly a FR play on that. :-)

15 posted on 02/26/2006 10:07:36 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Phil Connors

And there's my favorite english word, "armadillo."

I picture two Conquistadores coming across one for the first time:
"Mira- que es esto?" (Look- what's that?)
"No se' - es un armadillo." (I dunno- it's a little armored thing.)

Yes, friends, "armadillo" means 'little armored thing' in Spanish.


16 posted on 02/26/2006 10:09:16 PM PST by Ostlandr ( CONUS SITREP is foxtrot uniform bravo alfa romeo)
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To: tbird5; SunkenCiv; blam

BTTT


17 posted on 02/26/2006 10:17:09 PM PST by Fiddlstix (Tagline Repair Service. Let us fix those broken Taglines. Inquire within(Presented by TagLines R US))
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Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

18 posted on 02/26/2006 10:20:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (My Sunday Feeling is that Nothing is easy. Goes for the rest of the week too.)
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To: Ostlandr
Yes, friends, "armadillo" means 'little armored thing' in Spanish.

German is full of 'things' and 'stuff' as well:

Farbstoff = 'color stuff' = food coloring
Konservierungstoff = 'preservative stuff' = preservatives
Spielzeug = 'play thing' = toy
Flugzeug = 'fly thing' = aircraft
Kraftfahrzeug = 'power drive thing' = motor vehicle

Etc. But they really get poetic in anatomy. I.e.: Bauchspeicheldruse = 'belly spit gland' = pancreas.

19 posted on 02/26/2006 10:25:49 PM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: Ostlandr

There was a group of Indians in Arizona (if I recall) that the Spanish named the sinaguas. I think you can figure it out.


20 posted on 02/26/2006 10:59:21 PM PST by ndt
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To: Ostlandr
Yes, friends, "armadillo" means 'little armored thing' in Spanish.

But in Texican it means "mobile speedbump".

21 posted on 02/26/2006 11:07:44 PM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: Phil Connors

Another fascinating account of the Permian extinction is the book "When Life Nearly Died: The Greatest Mass Extinction of all Time," by Michael J. Benton, 2003.

A fascinating coincidence is that both end periods had huge outpourings of lava associated with them. The Deccan Traps of India are more than 300 miles square and 9,000 feet thick. I recently encountered a reference to a new discovery called the Shiva Crater in the Indian Ocean, west of India that is 600 by 400 kilometers, also with the age 65 million years ago. This is far larger than the 180 km diameter crater along Yucatan. The two together if the Shiva Crater proves out on further examination would really have messed up the neighborhood. The Shiva event could have caused massive cracks in the Indian land mass, allowing lava to pour out.

The Siberian Traps of the end Permian are as large as the US and as thick as the Deccan Traps. In 2001 a new possible crater was identified in the ocean off Australia. Of course there could have been more than one, scientists will continue to search.

A third fascinating crater event has been identified recently. That is the Chesapeake Meteor which has been described in detail by C. Wylie Poag in "Chesapeake Invader: Discovering America's Giant Meteorite Crater," 1999. This 50 mile diameter crater has its lower edge in Norfolk and its northern point at Exmore on the Delmarva Peninsula. If you look at a map you will see that the rivers flowing into the West side of the Chesapeake have a little jog in them. This is the western edge of the crater.
This crater formed 34 million years ago, coincided with the death of about 50% of the major life forms. There is also a 50 mile wide crater in north west Siberia, Popigai, of the same age, and a 9 mile wide crater off Toms River, NJ.

There is so much to still be discovered!!


22 posted on 02/27/2006 12:32:15 AM PST by gleeaikin (Question Authority)
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To: Phil Connors

"It seems the Spaniards landed there in 1520, and said (in Spanish): "What is this place called?" To which the local inhabitants naturally responded: "Yectetan!"..."

God, I love Colonialism "jokes." Nothing makes Europeans look dumber, other than the destruction of numerous civilizations, than this stuff.


23 posted on 02/27/2006 12:58:37 AM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: struwwelpeter
Kunststoff = 'Art(ificial) stuff' = plastic
Sauerstoff = 'sour stuff' = oxygen

24 posted on 02/27/2006 2:25:54 AM PST by Erasmus (One fine day, sad to say, we'll all be Democrat voters.)
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To: Lochlainnach; Phil Connors
And then there's that beautiful valley in southern California. When the famous Jewish Spanish explorer Manny de Gama first looked down upon it, he said,

"Van Nuys!"

--Alan Sherman

25 posted on 02/27/2006 2:28:35 AM PST by Erasmus (One fine day, sad to say, we'll all be Democrat voters.)
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To: Lochlainnach

"Nothing makes Europeans look dumber, other than the destruction of numerous civilizations..."

Well, where I come from, when referring to the heart-out-ripping Aztec idiots, "thems needed killin'."


26 posted on 02/27/2006 3:44:54 AM PST by Phil Connors
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To: gleeaikin
"Of course there could have been more than one, scientists will continue to search."

Change "could have been" to "probably was"--see Shoemaker-Levy at Jupiter for an eyewitness account to the same type of thing.

27 posted on 02/27/2006 3:59:19 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Ostlandr
The ice is melting now- I wonder if it's too late to file a claim to get it back.
---
Do you still have the title? Look in your safe deposit box.
28 posted on 02/27/2006 5:15:38 AM PST by Cheburashka
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To: GSlob

Most people on this thread give Mrs. William Jefferson Blythe Clinton too much credit.
She's just a lousy spear carrier in the legions of evil.


29 posted on 02/27/2006 5:18:01 AM PST by Cheburashka
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To: struwwelpeter
How about waffenstillstand - a ceasefire.
30 posted on 02/27/2006 5:20:15 AM PST by Cheburashka
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To: Phil Connors
Yeah, the Aztecs probably had it coming, considering every group surrounding them had a serious beef with their religious practices. I was more referring to the American Indian populations, or even real Indians, or African campaigns, maybe Sudwestafrikan tribes, Herero possibly, under German rule in, oh, say, 1904 and the aftermath--for Deutsch-land!
31 posted on 02/28/2006 1:39:30 AM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: Phil Connors

You know I thought of something else. For how Europeans (Eh em, the English) treated the "lower" people, you need to look no further than the Emerald Isle itself and how the Irish were subjugated out of land property and political rights for only about three hundred years.

Can anyone say potato famine, or the flight of the geese, in Irish?


32 posted on 02/28/2006 1:42:53 AM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: Lochlainnach

I'm a spud famine Irish myself. But you can't deny that British treatment of the "wogs" (outside of Ireland) didn't come anywhere near as bad as that of the French, the Germans, or God forbid, the Belgians in the Congo.....


33 posted on 02/28/2006 3:33:27 AM PST by Phil Connors
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To: Phil Connors
Yeah, the Africans had the disadvantage of being a different skin color. And of course, any country still populated with tribal units must be far inferior to a society that dumped industrial waste into the poorer working class' drinking water and living quarters--the living quarters they "hid" from the more affluent members of the working class who had to travel to along the streets of industry, to keep spirits up, of course.

Amazingly, the English had many of the same prejudices towards the Indians, even though Indian society is one of the two oldest on the planet.
34 posted on 02/28/2006 11:32:19 AM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: struwwelpeter

I love the way German strings together a bunch of existing words, rather than create a new word, or borrow one from another language:

panzerkampfwagen- "armored war wagon" (tank)

schutzenpanzerwagen "assault armored wagon" (APC)

fliegerabwehrkanone "air defense cannon" (AA gun)

And then, to save writing these jawbreaker words out, they abbreviate- PzKfw, Spw, FlAk (the last is where we get "flak" for antiaircraft fire.)


35 posted on 03/01/2006 4:23:26 PM PST by Ostlandr ( CONUS SITREP is foxtrot uniform bravo alfa romeo)
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To: Ostlandr
How about Plattenwaermeaustauchungsmilcherhitzer for a plate-type heat exchanger used in in milk pasteurization ;-)
36 posted on 03/02/2006 6:53:07 PM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: Lochlainnach
Your average American Indian's idea of prime time television was torturing helpless captives to death slowly, for days, in public, as all the kids laughed at and poked them while they screamed in agony. And their idea of honor was wearing the tops of babies heads on their belts. They weren't very numerous because they had been waging wars of extermination against each other without the slightest let up for hundreds of years. Most that died after westerners landed did so from diseases they had no immunity toward. And they have more descendents today than the total population then, with vastly better lives in every respect. Don't believe all the tripe commies feed you.
37 posted on 03/02/2006 7:40:58 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC
Are you high or just stupid? Where in the world do you get your info? And don't start with the Commie references (were you taught by Nazis? No, I didn't think so). Frankly, before I get into any sort of argument, you're just wrong...

Don't try and tell me that the American Indians weren't numerous before Europeans came. The Sioux ruled most of the Midwest. You're right about the their death rates for lack of immunity...but if it weren't so, we would have enslaved them instead of Africans...yeah!

"Vastly better lives." This is hard to respond to. Do you live in a large city and never encounter the Native American population...come and visit the Red Lake Reservation in Northern MN and tell me their lives are so much better...even with all that gov't's I'm sorry please go to college at our expense money going to members of many tribes. The Native Americans best off, at least here, are the tribes running Casinos--about the only privilege they enjoy.
38 posted on 03/03/2006 3:21:22 AM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: bannedfromdu
In Intelligent Design, these mass extinctions are referred to as God's "DO OVERS"

Sorta like putting the beakers in an autoclave!!!

39 posted on 03/03/2006 3:31:06 AM PST by ExSES (the "bottom-line")
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To: Lochlainnach
Don't try and tell me that the American Indians weren't numerous before Europeans came. The Sioux ruled most of the Midwest. You're right about the their death rates for lack of immunity...but if it weren't so, we would have enslaved them instead of Africans...yeah!

From my reading of history, it is reported that enslaving the indigenous residents of the "new world" was proven to be an abject failure during the 16th and 17th centuries! It seems that their will to survive collapsed upon enslavement!!!

It was (as most events are) an economically driven decision to purchase african slaves from arab slave-traders and import them to the "new world"!

The "indentured servants" who essentially sold themselves into slavery for a defined period of time (reminiscent of employees loyal to an employer for a pension???), proved far more productive and less problematic than other labor sources BUT they were in much shorter supply and required far more finesse in their management!

40 posted on 03/03/2006 3:42:59 AM PST by ExSES (the "bottom-line")
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To: Lochlainnach
Ruling the midwest isn't hard if you are the only one there. It has nothing to do with population. The population density of hunter-gatherer societies is tiny compared even to agricultural ones, let alone urbanized ones. Objective estimates of the total American Indian population north of the Rio Grande at date of first extensive contact with westerners run about 1.1 million. Some scholars get higher estimates in the range of 1.85 million to 3.8 million, but to do so they have to assume the population was higher than ever actually recorded but was then reduced by epidemics, before extensive contact with westerners.

The present American Indian population is 4.3 million, based on self IDs in census reports. Which undoubtedly underestimates the number of actual descendents of American Indians, because many are interbred with westerners at modest enough portions (1/8th, 1/16th, etc) that they do not so identity themselves. Only about 1/3rd of those who list no other identity group for themselves live in tribal lands, incidentally - almost all are entirely assimilated to the rest of the culture.

On vastly better lives, yes a median income of $27,000 a year in a free society with real justice and ready cooperation, abundant wealth, technology, food, and all creature comforts, is vastly better than scraping a meager existence from hunting while living in tents with no medicine beyond magical superstition and no justice beyond brazen torture by whoever it locally stronger today.

Watermelon greens opposed to modernity, capitalism, technology, and for that matter even agriculture and population, have systematically romanticised the American Indian past, in a tradition going back to Rosseau. And extending to desires to see civilization eliminated as a cancer to the planet and a reversion to hunter-gatherer existence, even though they know it would mean the demise of 99% of the human race - because anything else is dangerous to their precious wilderness. And that is commie nonsense every bit as murderous at bottom as Nazis or Stalinists. Yes murderous. Banning DDT alone has caused 500 million preventable human deaths from malaria since the early 1960s.

It is all utter rot. The American Indians were not noble, just savages. They were not helpless victims, they were torturers. After all the horrible aspects of their society have been eliminated by present justice, one can lament whatever nicer bits their stories, culture, folk traditions etc might have had in romantic fashion, that's fine as mere poetry. But if any one of them wants to actually live like that again, they have only to buy a ticket to New Guineau, and they can die from untreatable disease or starvation to their hearts content. They don't want to. A few just want to earn ideological points with leftist identity politicians by castigating their benefactors.

41 posted on 03/03/2006 6:47:50 AM PST by JasonC
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To: ExSES

I often wonder what the world would be like if the Europeans' immune systems were as weak to the Native populations diseases as the Natives were to Europeans...and, on the other hand, why Africans seemed to have little problem with European diseases.

And kudos for being up so early...or late...


42 posted on 03/03/2006 1:05:53 PM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: JasonC
You should search someone out before branding them with a label.

I'm not saying they're noble...I, as you seem to, don't believe in the BS about the noble savage who roamed the earth free from society's laws and restrictions. But they were more than torturers. You seem so worried about Watermelon Greens that you've faded into dark.

The Indians were not merely victims. They fought against growing Western influence, and won many battles before, obviously, ultimately losing.

But don't throw this romanticized notion of Our real justice, or the onwards march of glorious Civilization. It sounds too English, c. 1880's. You have some interesting points, but a civilization shouldn't be judged by how many citizens it has...especially when that population is three million larger than it was, what, a hundred and fifty or sixty years ago.

...and, please, stay focused. Nazis? Stalinists? Using these references is usually solid proof of stretching an argument a too far. The Greens, the more sane ones, want to provide a balance against rampant industrialism, the kind that doesn't mind dumping waste near drinking water because it's cheaper, but some of them go too far in worshiping Mother Earth.

DDT? Where did that come from? I know Carson erroneously reported on findings about...was it quails or pheasants, and how many eggs hatched, but I fail to see how this connects in any way to any statement I've so far made?
43 posted on 03/03/2006 1:32:41 PM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: Lochlainnach
Greens are not innocent idealists, they are murdering ideologues who need to be utterly smashed.

Civilization does not get a margin of error to tolerate nonsense deliberately targeted at undermining and destroying it.

All cultures are equal nonsense, green nonsense, identity politics nonsense, hatred of America capitalism civilization etc, are rampant and real. They need to be seen, diagnosed, challenged directly, and utterly defeated. Not compromised with and granted half ass accomodation. You regurgiated some of the nonsense such ideologues spread. I called you on it. That is all.

44 posted on 03/03/2006 4:27:28 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC
You are raving. Called me on what? Denying the atrocities committed by colonialists. I don't care if you don't see Native populations as people deserving to live, but get off the soap box. I never said all cultures were equal, nor did I stand up for Greens, either. I never even mentioned Greens until referencing a man I know quite well who is not a murderous ideologue, or a tree hugging sandal wearing long hair who plays a guitar at a commune. He works in a capitalist system. If you didn't have your head so far up your ass, you could see that not everyone you disagree with is trying to destroy the world...you have a bad habit of transferring broad, half-serious statements into A credo of defense for anything you hate and want to rage against, which seems plenty.

The original statement, I assume, you chose to ramble about had to do with the development of "Western" names by an ironic misunderstanding. Yucatan. I never referenced merely American Indians, and if you'd have tried to open a dialogue before tirading everywhere, you would have understood that the Indians I was talking about in the post, I believe, you replied to, were the national Indians (Gandhi).

A few tips.

1)Learn to stay on point in an argument, thus your statement won't degrade into some rambling tirade against cut with half-developed ideas of evil.

2)Don't talk so much. Once you start rambling off topic you start to sound like a schizophrenic fascist.
45 posted on 03/04/2006 12:00:23 PM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: Lochlainnach
"I was more referring to the American Indian populations... The Sioux ruled most of the midwest... I never referenced merely American Indians."

So now you are merely lying.

And the people as such did not deserve extermination and weren't, they were assimilated, that is why they have more descendents now than they had population then. The culture did deserve elimination and was eliminated. Its innocuous aspects - the arts, stories, folk traditions, etc - survive just fine, because they were innocuous. Cutting off the tops of enemies heads and torturing captives for personal pleasure did not survive because they didn't deserve to, and plenty of individual practitioners of such pastimes didn't, either. But the peoples did, just fine.

In other words, once again, it is all a pack of lies that you apparently swallowed uncritically in grade school, and have never taken the time to examine. Then you pretend to correct others - am I high or just stupid? - when you don't know what you are talking about, yourself.

46 posted on 03/04/2006 1:35:11 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC
Listen, you are twisting whatever I say, so I'm done. I couldn't even possibly begin to understand what I'm lying about because we are obviously having two different conversations. You bring up random, far-reaching smears and I answer, and then you act like the tid bit I responded with (the Sioux ruled the Midwest) is some universal Commie point I'm making. You seem obsessed with proving how wrong I am about Indians out of a smart ass quote I made about egotistic Occidentals ironically naming sights.

Yes, when I hear what Yucatan meant in the native language, it makes me laugh about Westerners. It always will. But I live in America, where the Indians used to rule, so obviously I'm not crying too hard about living on "their" land. But give me a break about the head chopping off stuff; you could look at any society and point out the atrocities they've committed. The saving grace in the West is that, at least when we did the awful things we did, there seemed to be some good intention for society--mainly that society's freedom vis-a-vis expanding their market and territory (more true with the English and Germans and Dutch). But look what that did in Africa. It's not assimilation when the natives don't want it, or, more importantly, I believe, aren't ready for it...especially when you high tail and leave, for myriad of reasons, the land you have half developed, allowing whoever has the biggest guns to rule.
47 posted on 03/05/2006 3:07:45 AM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: Lochlainnach
You aren't arguing about jokes or names. "Nothing makes Europeans look dumber, other than the destruction of numerous civilizations...I was more referring to the American Indian populations...must be far inferior to a society that dumped industrial waste into the poorer working class' drinking water and living quarters... if it weren't so, we would have enslaved them instead of Africans...yeah!"

You are arguing that "Europeans" destroyed civilizations that are morally superior because Europeans are genocidal polluting slavers. When the only justice there is in the world is due to our power and arms, slavery was only abolished by our principles and our blood. The pollution nonsense is characteristic of green agitprop nonsense. You have swallowed a boatload of utter nonsense about your own civilization, you spread it around, and moreover you pretend anyone who doesn't agree with you about every lick of it is a crazy stupid fascist. Then you have the gall to get defensive about being called on it, and apparently don't even notice what about.

So you are an enemy pure and simple. Of mankind, of modern civilization, of justice, above all of truth. When you reflect on where you came by such opinions and how flimsy their basis actually is, and the collosal injustice you yourself are guilty of toward far better men who made possible every scrap of decency you have ever known, then maybe that will change. Entirely up to you. We've seen off far worse and we will defeat your whining PC idiocies.

48 posted on 03/05/2006 8:06:29 AM PST by JasonC
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To: Lochlainnach
Oh and if any Indians want to, they can go to REI and buy a tent and a hatchet, and go hunt deer with whatever they can make of them. Or start a buffalo ranch if they prefer. You can farm corn on half an acre instead of letting ADM do it for you, and don't need to sweat the price if you are doing it yourself. But for some strange reason, people apparently prefer a house in sprawling Phoenix suburbs, a pick up truck, cable TV, and a job at Wal-Mart. The moral is that people being free doesn't mean every civilization survives, because voting with their feet, they will leave some ways of life as fast as they can.
49 posted on 03/05/2006 8:41:11 AM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC
Once again you are making an argument that I agree with in the main.

I'm going to say it one more time. Yucatan. That's funny to me. In a sick way, the British arrogance towards Indians (and everyone else in the world) is funny to me. There is a downside to Colonialism, as well as an upside. Europeans are not excused from the harsh brutalities you seem to claim only American Indians perpetrated. Look at the English's drive for freedom: beheaded their King(Charles I), Cromwell paves the way for the subjugation of Ireland, dies, and is eventually replaced with the executed king's son (Charles II) within an 11 year period...and everyone that supported the Regicide was arrested (supposedly).

Just because someone understands the darker moments of colonialism doesn't mean they want 99% of the population killed so that the survivors can go back and live in tents and hunt buffalo. Maybe Kevin Costner thinks that's cool, but I haven't used a hatchet since I was seven, and even then I probably wasn't proficient with it, although I'm more than proficient with an electric meat slicer.
50 posted on 03/05/2006 12:13:04 PM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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