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Abandon nuclear weapons, China tells India
HT/ Reuters ^ | Beijing, March 2, 2006 | HT/ Reuters

Posted on 03/02/2006 10:03:28 AM PST by CarrotAndStick

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To: Golden Eagle
And we all know there is no easy way to do it, based on the era and the parameters under which the originaly treaty was written.

My point is that to carry out the "formalized process" requires the creation of a body of enforcement by a world body (the UN), and the world body the authority to enforce. To give the UN such powers of enforcement is to establish the NWO with the UN as the world government.

That means the loss of U.S. sovereignty. Tell me, sir, that is not what you propose.

The US's loss of respectable right to refer to the current (and widely ignored) NPF is minor in the grand scheme of things compared with the prospect of risking national sovereignty.

41 posted on 03/02/2006 7:48:35 PM PST by rzeznikj at stout (This is a darkroom. Keep the door closed or you'll let all the dark out...)
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To: rzeznikj at stout

Get real, it's effectively nothing more than a trade agreement, in the trade intensive world we live in. If the actual powers of the world can't get together over this, they can't get together over anything. But until they do, it's going to be anything goes with the most dangerous elements known to man.

42 posted on 03/02/2006 7:53:34 PM PST by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
The NPT is more than just a trade agreement. It was designed to prevent NATO and Soviet nuclear material from being shipped elsewhere to give one side a tactical or strategic advanatage. As I've said, it was a Cold War design that stopped applying at the collapse of the Warsaw Pact.

I'm not saying that we need to leave things as they are--they need to change. But with what you propose, the risks and harms handily outweigh any benefit that can be obtained. Especially with entrusting a corrupt UN to handle enforcement of the current, ignored, and outdated pact.

The best way clearly would be to just rewrite a new treaty, with the U.S. taking the lead on such an endeavor.

43 posted on 03/02/2006 8:16:19 PM PST by rzeznikj at stout (This is a darkroom. Keep the door closed or you'll let all the dark out...)
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To: rzeznikj at stout
The best way clearly would be to just rewrite a new treaty, with the U.S. taking the lead on such an endeavor.

Obviously what I have been proposing all along, where were you?

44 posted on 03/02/2006 10:23:22 PM PST by Golden Eagle
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To: Nathan Zachary
There was a time when only democratic countries were allowed in the UN. Now it seems every Koranic kook and Commie dictator is not only a member,

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963
Current Communist Goals
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

45 posted on 03/03/2006 12:03:43 AM PST by Just A Nobody (NEVER AGAIN - Support our troops. I *LOVE* my attitude problem! Beware the Enemedia.)
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To: MimirsWell; All
Some comments from an Indian forum:

• Abandon nuclear weapons ?

To ask India to abandon nuclear weapons is the most shameful comment by the Chinese Govt. official.
Before advising India, China should dismantle its own growing stockpile of nuclear weapons and set an example but this is like asking a tiger
to be a vegetarian !
Mr. China how about giving Tibet back
to Tibetans and then we will talk about
dismantling nuclear weapons !

Posted by: c.s.poredi, United States, 03-03-2006 at 1325 hours IST

• To hell with China

India should never give an ear to any words of China. It is the most unreliable country after Pakistan. It has done more harms to India than Pakistan. It is behind all the stretegic missiles of Pakistan. It has taken a huge land of ours in 1962 war.
In reply to China's advice India must declare to the world that we have same right of making Nuke weapons as those countries who have signed on NPT. If they are too concerns about nuke weapons, first they must dectroy their own nuke weapons before asking any body else to do so. In fact world-peace has more threat from China and USA than any other country even Pakistan and Iran.

Posted by: Vijay Kr Singhal, India, 03-03-2006 at 1152 hours IST

• Look who's talking

China should not talk such bullshit while they are busy arming all our neighbours (against us...) and supplying nuclear weapons to Pak.

It should abandon her own nukes before advising us to do so. No one gave them any special rights.

But overall I think the govt. should ignore their comment in order to show they give them no importance.

Posted by: A concerned citizen, Australia, 03-03-2006 at 0932 hours IST

• OneAlwaysHasToPay- CashORKind?

Now the "FAT Seems to Be Really In The FIRE! Let us "HOPE & PRAY" that the GIFT HORSE which Mr.G W BUSH (the Junior) has brought to us and on whichWe areMOREthan EAGER and in FACT RARING TO RIDE(!)does not turn with TIME, in to a "TROJAN HORSE" (!) ,otherwise we may end up "GETTING KICKED IN OUR 'YOU KNOW WHAT(!), instead of being able to "RIDE on IT! In such a situation we, may also end up with "ANOTHER not SO Wooden HORSE from across the HIMALAYA's which may feel "COMPELED and MOTIVATED Enough to Comedown on US "Like A TON of PLUTONIUM" apart from relishing some "KICKS" of its own, before the final DENOUMENT! By the way, one wonders as to " What really happened to the "TRIAD OF INFLUENCE" between RUSSIA, CHINA and Lastly but not Leastly(!) INDIA , which was the "Talk of (all) the Indian Foreign Policy Makers TOWN(s) only an year or so ago as the "WIN-WIN" strategy of Consolidating ASIA, as and for a "BULWARK" against the then "SOUL LESS, SOLE & RAMPAGING SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD" who has now ended up as our MOST INTIMATE LIFE PART-NER!Are any of those planners still around or they believe in DISCRE-TION BEING THE BETTER PART OF VALOUR and Decided to HIDE till BUSH is around!

Posted by: Shahabuddin Nadeem, India, 03-03-2006 at 0914 hours IST

• Satan quoting scriptures

Great. Look who is quoting the scripture?! The monster aggresor of our northern border, and who destroyed the Tibetan nation and culture is advising us to abandon nukes. Why can't this bamboo tiger do it first? Where are our comrades to advise their source of inspiration?

Posted by: kvjayan, India, 03-03-2006 at 0900 hours IST

• China's Reaction!

In the Fifties India got off to a rocky start in her relationship to the United States because of her principled stand in insisting that PRC was the legitimate occupant of the China seat in the Security Council, rather than Taiwan.

In subsequent years China deceived India over her intentions regarding the border issue. This despite India not actively opposing China's forced occupation, some might call it rape, of Tibet. Nehru's death was hastened by his shock and humiliation over the Chinese deception.

China has apparently passed on Nuclear Technology to Pakistan and North Korea, including help with bomb design to Pakistan.

China now has the effrontery to question the agreement between India and the US, which has the support of other nuclear powers and IAEA.

What gall!

Posted by: Dilip Adarkar, United States, 03-03-2006 at 0803 hours IST

• Abandon N.Weapons

Abandon N.Weapons and get nuked by Pakis and Chinkoos.

Posted by: Karunakaran Yendapal, India, 03-03-2006 at 0602 hours IST

• some cheek

Some cheek from this savage filth!

Posted by: Ravi Stalin, India, 03-03-2006 at 0308 hours IST


Even if China abondons, India need not.
Because India is sorrounded by terrorist and fascist nations.

Posted by: REDDY, United States, 03-03-2006 at 0228 hours IST

• India should hit back

India must simply say, "Shut Up. Mind your own business." In fact it must take the war of words into their camp and talk about these fashionable words of convenience as practiced by Pakistan in Kashmir - "self-determination, human rights violations" in Taiwan and Tibet. Why India should be quiet beats me? How DARE China could even issue such a statement on India? I admire Chinese for their boldness while usually India displays lack of spine. China hits back even at USA.

By the way, I am sure our Communits now wont speak anything on this. If this statement were made by US, there would have been all the usual drama and rightly so. So why not now --- why are Communists so hypocritical? They oppose Bush's visit for no valid reason. They talk of Iraq and Afghanistan where atleast democracies have been installed and peolple voted parties which are of not US liking, but still US kept quiet. In China and Tibet people are killed if they oppose Communist govt, so why not Communists opposed China premier's visit? Well Communism is like a viral disease of mind sometimes whose leaders are more intereted for power than the welfare of country or its people.

Posted by: SS, United States, 03-03-2006 at 0223 hours IST

• China, set an example

China, why don't you set an example? We have teh right to defend ourselves. What if China attacks us. We may need to nuke Shanghai to defend ourselves. Plus, we are the only country with a no first use policy. I think India should remove that law.

Posted by: Amit Roy, India, 03-03-2006 at 0144 hours IST

• Dyabolical Mongols!

Mr Qin Gang(Oh,thse Chinese and Pak gangs!),
You,please,safeguard your coal mines,first.
You are diabolic( I hope you can understand English!),to have proliferated to Pak and bullied many Asian ntions,including India not long ago,with yuor nukes..
Our country has actually gone nuclear because of the perceived threats from you,cunning Chinese!
Take care of yourself and Pak first,beffore commenting and passing judgements on other countries.
Have you gone back to the old days when your Xinhua news agency used to embark on vitriolic attacks on the US?

Posted by: Kutty, India, 03-03-2006 at 0036 hours IST

• Tell that to pakistan

Indian should tell China that they should tell this to Pakistan & other countries.

Posted by: James, Australia, 03-03-2006 at 0016 hours IST

• commie alert!

How come the commies from india, the CPI, CPM and that Karat silent on this issue? Because they are chinese agents. They would love to sell india to china. For them only patriotism is anti-US and pro china. India doesn't come in calculation. Why don't they go and live in Beijing and preach Hu Jintao about how bad capitalism is?

Posted by: Amar, India, 02-03-2006 at 2227 hours IST

• Abandon nuke weapons: China to India

China should abandon its nuke weapons and start advising others or to put it differently "Mind your own business".

Posted by: Parthiban Krishnaswa, United States, 02-03-2006 at 2123 hours IST

46 posted on 03/03/2006 1:30:08 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

China is right insofar that this Non Proliferation Treaty has become a joke. It should be cancelled.

47 posted on 03/03/2006 1:40:35 AM PST by Schweinhund
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To: RightWhale
China tested thermonuclear bombs in the sixties. Aside from threatening to turn Los Angeles into a sea of fire they have been acting like adults so far.

Yeah, but in the 60s they still didn't have an airplane to deliver it. China's ability to deliver long range nuclear missiles is much more recent. So they really had no choice except to act like adults. That's all changing now.

48 posted on 03/03/2006 4:48:22 AM PST by Maceman (Fake but accurate -- and now double-sourced)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Great post, C&S.

Cool to hear Indians in their own words!

49 posted on 03/03/2006 6:14:43 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: CarrotAndStick; sukhoi-30mki

They sound pretty sensible to me!

Of course here, such sensible sentiments on our own behalf are derided as "U.S. xenophobia".

50 posted on 03/03/2006 8:19:20 AM PST by Paul Ross (Hitting bullets with bullets successfully for 35 years!)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Perhaps India should have been on the Security Council instead. It has been quite a dependable ally for a long time and it along with Thailand is quite possibly the only genuine Non-Western democracy, (presuming Israel is counted as a Western nation). That's not to say we should not do business or form alliances with undemocratic nations, as that would include almost all of Africa, Asia, Central and South America but if the UN ever wanted to take itself seriously only genuine democracies would ever be allowed to be in Security Council or other positions of influence.

51 posted on 03/03/2006 8:27:29 AM PST by ToDieUnsung (Mass illegal immigration is a tactful term for full-scale invasion.)
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To: Golden Eagle
No, your posts show a desire to fix the treaty, not rewrite it.

I know you well enough from other threads. Nice try.

52 posted on 03/03/2006 2:31:35 PM PST by rzeznikj at stout (This is a darkroom. Keep the door closed or you'll let all the dark out...)
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To: rzeznikj at stout
No, your posts show a desire to fix the treaty, not rewrite it. I know you well enough from other threads. Nice try.

ROFL! Well frankly, your analysis has completley focused on me instead of the discussion. And you've done a pretty poor job of that, as well.

I really don't care which they do, but the thing's worthless as it is, nothing but a distraction, until something is done. The U.S. should logically be taking that role in redefining the agreement, but instead, are just making surprise anouncements that contradict it. Now we'll be stuck with basically nothing effective in place, and nothing being developed. Nuclear anarchy, neat huh. /sarcasm

53 posted on 03/03/2006 3:03:28 PM PST by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
Denial is a river in Egypt...
54 posted on 03/03/2006 3:28:14 PM PST by rzeznikj at stout (This is a darkroom. Keep the door closed or you'll let all the dark out...)
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To: CarrotAndStick
With Pakistan having the nuclear bomb, China's view is a non-starter. Then again, China IS close to Pakistan.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

55 posted on 03/03/2006 3:34:05 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Nathan Zachary
There was a time when only democratic countries were allowed in the UN.

You mean like when it was founded and the Soviet Union and was run by a dictator?

56 posted on 03/03/2006 3:35:34 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Islam's true face:
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To: rzeznikj at stout

Accuracy? Relevance? Meaning? All F's.

57 posted on 03/03/2006 4:27:47 PM PST by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
Accuracy? Relevance? Meaning? All F's.

Clearly this is projection in the Liberal style.

You asked in a previous post why posters such as myself argue about you and not your argument?

Simple. You have a history of posting circular arguments and then denying them emphatically--in some cases even mere minutes after you post said argument.

Perhaps if you posted logical arguments to where the reader can develop an idea of not just what you're saying, but how you arrived at that conclusion, the dynamic of posting would center squarely on your arguments and with no regard to your posting style.

Thus, if you want to be judged by the merit of your argument, there needs to be clear evidence of reason and logic--I should be able to at least derive some idea on how you came to your conclusion without obfuscation.

What you said was clearly stated on this thread. I posted an objection and pointed out the inherent flaws in your proposal--basically the key points why your idea isn't even remotely feasible as an act of international diplomacy.

58 posted on 03/03/2006 6:10:37 PM PST by rzeznikj at stout (This is a darkroom. Keep the door closed or you'll let all the dark out...)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Sounds like China doesn't exactly relish the idea of a US Nuclear Ally south of it's border and within quick striking range.

59 posted on 03/03/2006 6:12:58 PM PST by Leatherneck_MT (An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens.)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

As an Indin, I hope that the political parties can make the left front a pariah and work together to reach a consensus on foreign policy. The NAM is irrelevant now and India needs to stop sitting on the fence and take a position. In the past, we have paid dearly for this indecisive attitude. ITs time we positioned ourselves as a US ally point. We need to concircle (contain and encircle) the Chinese just like they are doing us with naval bases in the Arabian sea (Gwadar, Pakistan) and the Bay of Bengal (Myanamar). We should recognise Taiwan separately within perhaps the One China paradigm (so as not to cause a diplomatic flutter), establish bases in Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan and Japan, or atleast engage these countries in joint naval exercises. Like someone else said on the forum, we should take the fight into their camp but not with a war of words but with strategic planning and actions. Words are printed and reprinted and can be quoted out of context but silent, swift and decisive actions yield blows where they hurt the most.

India and the US share much more in common than democracies. The reason that i see India and US never really turning into rivals is because of the people to people level bonding that Indians and the Americans share. Nixon might have opened up China, but not the Chinese. India's past affiliation with the Soviets didn't damage its ties with the Americans only because of the people to people ties that we enjoy with the Americans. This should be the basis of our relations.

Now for the left front in India. Yes they are commie stooges, they are pro chinese and all that. But they play a key role in democratic India. They do for India, exactly what no one has done for the Chinese government in the past. That is to moderate views, to ensure that the government clearly plans out its action, takes in to account the concerns of sections of the society, as small as these sections may be. India and America are vibrant and diverse countries. Opposition plays an important role in ensuring that no group gets left behind. As much as i like to join the "Left bashing", it would be opposed to our love for democracy to counter their view point only with emotional words. It is true that we make sense and that we keep the interests of the majority of India's people, but imagine the environmental degradation that will be caused if a certain government were to act like the Chinese commies and bulldoze everything in its path. China is in denial over its problems. The left front in India ensures that we dont suffer from the same symptoms before eventual downfall.

60 posted on 03/03/2006 7:55:06 PM PST by MimirsWell (Kick the sino-butts.)
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