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Anyone Care to Comment on the Condition of This BMG?
US Navy "Eye on the Fleet" Photo Gallery. ^ | Oct. 12, 2005 | US Navy Photographer

Posted on 03/02/2006 8:07:19 PM PST by fso301

Can someone comment on this picture of this M2 and it's ammo?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 125mm; 50; 50cal; bang; banglist; bmg; browning; firearms; getsome; guns; m2; machineguns; madeuce; wot; wwii
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Anybody care to comment on the condition of the gun and ammo in this picture? Is it some sort of anti-corrosion coating that happens to look like rust or, is it rust?

I heard where WWII stocks of .50 are being pulled out of storage and used due to a shortage of .50 cal ammo. However, the gun looks to be rusted as well.

Here's the link to the photo.

Here's the photo.


1 posted on 03/02/2006 8:07:22 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301
He's likely I am retired....


2 posted on 03/02/2006 8:09:47 PM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: fso301

It is rust


4 posted on 03/02/2006 8:13:12 PM PST by miliantnutcase
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To: Blue Jays
Hi All-

It's not rust, it's a specialized iron oxide coating.

~ Blue Jays ~

5 posted on 03/02/2006 8:14:04 PM PST by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: fso301

Some Gunner's Mate Chief is falling down on his job. I never saw any weapon in that condition in the whole time I was in the Navy.


6 posted on 03/02/2006 8:14:37 PM PST by Ronin
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To: fso301

The belt clips around the cases are steel, and could have left rust dust on the cases. The cases themselves have not rusted.


7 posted on 03/02/2006 8:14:42 PM PST by mountn man (Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic.)
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To: fso301
It is very likely rust on the gun. The stuff on the ammo is probably nothing to worry about. I used stuff from the 1920s when I was in the service in the late 50s early 60s. Loved that browning.

The rust doesn't look like it will hurt the gun but you never know without being able to actually inspect the piece.

If I was in charge of this crew they would be holding their asses and wondering how they lost a piece of it after I reamed them out!

8 posted on 03/02/2006 8:14:45 PM PST by calex59 (seeing the light shouldn't make you go blind and, BTW, Stå sammen med danskerne !)
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To: fso301

Thats some gundeckin' gunners mates on that boat.

I've fired them before, but I would'nt wanna shoot that one unless I had to.


9 posted on 03/02/2006 8:15:06 PM PST by diverteach
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To: bobbdobbs
Probably doesn't get a lot of use on the fantail of an aircraft carrier.

Sorry, I fat fingered the previous reply. What I mean to ask was if that is rust I see on the gun, links and ammo (the brass looks corroded).

10 posted on 03/02/2006 8:15:12 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

That's some nasty stuff. The gunner is looking at some brass in his gonads after a misfire. I wonder if he knows how to set headspace and timing.....


11 posted on 03/02/2006 8:16:34 PM PST by Sarajevo
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To: fso301
At least it isn't dirty.

A Ma deuce can take a lot of abuse.
12 posted on 03/02/2006 8:16:40 PM PST by usmcobra (I always sing Karaoke the way it is meant to be sung, drunk, badly, and in Japanese)
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To: Ronin

Actually I am surprised they released it for publication.

CHINFO is going to get his butt chewed.


13 posted on 03/02/2006 8:16:50 PM PST by Ronin
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To: SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; MikeinIraq; Cannoneer No. 4

Ping. Comments?


14 posted on 03/02/2006 8:18:32 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Blue Jays

As a former operator of one of these, the M2 appears to be fairly clean. I'd say it has too much oil, but maybe that's a navy thing. That much oil would attract a tremendous amount of dirt. It's not uncommon for the metal components to be different shades as they are commonly replaced. As for the ammo, I probably wouldn't have loaded that box of .50API into MY M2, but I can say that as a WWII machine gun design that just doesn't get any better, it will likely still shoot. The rust below the barrel is actually on the gun mount, not the gun.


15 posted on 03/02/2006 8:19:05 PM PST by SCPatriot77
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To: fso301

The Feedtray cover and barrel look good.

The mount... Not being Navy, it it unfamilar. That appears to be a special iron 4 coating.

The ammo: OMG!

Maybe the photographer found it somewhere?


16 posted on 03/02/2006 8:20:48 PM PST by sschaloc
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To: mountn man
The cases themselves have not rusted

Click on the link to the high-res photo, and you'll change your mind. The brass and the copper(?) jackets on the bullets have that distinctive blue corrosion on them.

The gun itself looks pretty beat up, too.

17 posted on 03/02/2006 8:21:14 PM PST by r9etb
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To: SCPatriot77

yeah- i just realized that's probably an army pic- sorry- i saw all the stuff in the background and immediately thought it was on a ship or something. embarrased!


18 posted on 03/02/2006 8:21:27 PM PST by SCPatriot77
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To: Ronin
Some Gunner's Mate Chief is falling down on his job. I never saw any weapon in that condition in the whole time I was in the Navy.

I'm flabbergasted that the weapon could be in such condition. Where are the officers?

19 posted on 03/02/2006 8:21:58 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

Its justa little sand and rust. Spray it full of silicone or graphite grease, set your head space at 2 or 3 (maybe 4)clicks and that MaDuece will ROCK and ROLL!!


20 posted on 03/02/2006 8:22:40 PM PST by Delta 21 ( Democrats -- a 40 year war on poverty and still no exit strategy)
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To: FreedomPoster; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; Cannoneer No. 4; darkwing104

well I believe that the ammo itself is still vaccum-sealed.

That is certainly rust on the weapon and I believe that's rust on the clips as well.


21 posted on 03/02/2006 8:23:08 PM PST by MikefromOhio (22,952+ replies - wow I'm talkative.....)
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To: fso301

The rust is on the mount. The heat shroud for the barrel looks ok.


22 posted on 03/02/2006 8:23:35 PM PST by Delta 21 ( Democrats -- a 40 year war on poverty and still no exit strategy)
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To: fso301

I looked at the hi-res and the M2 actually looks okay. I was always pretty anal about keeping the M2's on my Abrams tanks clean. This one is allright. Probably never even been shot.


23 posted on 03/02/2006 8:24:07 PM PST by SCPatriot77
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To: fso301

Dunno... but I am willing to bet dollars to donuts right now that that weapon is no-longer in that condition.

Someone up the chain of command has seen that pic by now and started the s**t rolling downhill.

That squidly on the gun is not going to be smiling for a few days to come.

Bank on that.


24 posted on 03/02/2006 8:24:35 PM PST by Ronin
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To: MikefromOhio

well, the ammo is stored in metal cans with a rubber gasket to seal the lid. But we all know that a rubber seal from WWII won't keep that ammo air tight.


25 posted on 03/02/2006 8:27:07 PM PST by SCPatriot77
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To: fso301

All are corroded. The corrosion on the steel portions is commonly called rust. The bluish colored powdering corrosion on the casing and projectile is typical of copper alloys (brass) corroding.

3 basic oxides of iron (rust)
Ferric oxide Fe2 O3 (red)
Ferrous oxide FeO (black)
Iron oxide Fe3 O4 (black)


26 posted on 03/02/2006 8:31:01 PM PST by Cold Heart
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To: MikefromOhio

We used that corroded ammo problem (salt water spray environment) as a nifty excuse to test fire the guns every day. We broke out clean ammo every day. We'd use up the old stuff on fun "mad minutes."


27 posted on 03/02/2006 8:32:37 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Ronin
It is not the weapon, but the cradle. The cradle looks to be some specialized unit for naval use, it's not standard.

If you look closely, you will see that the weapon itself if very nicely oiled.

I'm afraid to say, this is a navy problem, not the young marine standing there!

28 posted on 03/02/2006 8:38:52 PM PST by SENTINEL (USMC GWI (MY GOD IS GOD, ROCKCHUCKER !!))
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To: SCPatriot77
Draftsman 2nd Class Arturo Chavez stands a force security watch with a .50 caliber machine gun on the fantail of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75).

051012-N-2984R-005 Norfolk, Va. (Oct. 12, 2005) - Draftsman 2nd Class Arturo Chavez stands a force security watch with a .50 caliber machine gun on the fantail of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) as the ship prepares to get underway from Naval Station Norfolk. Truman will be conducting carrier qualifications and sustainment training with embarked Carrier Air Wing Three (CVW-3) off the East Coast of the United States. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate Airman Ricardo J. Reyes (RELEASED)

29 posted on 03/02/2006 8:45:48 PM PST by SC Swamp Fox (Join our Folding@Home team (Team# 36120) keyword: folding)
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To: fso301

It looks as if this ammo has been outdoors for quite awhile. Really poor condition. Other than that, it's a party mix. Some crunchy, some sweet.


30 posted on 03/02/2006 8:47:08 PM PST by Sender (As water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. Be without form. -Sun Tzu)
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To: fso301

I can't tell by the exact scale of the photo, but unless there's some severe distortion of perspective, that ammo looks bigger than .50 caliber to me. How do we verify the age and accuracy of the photo and news reporting? Do news reporters actually know what a real .50 cal. looks like. Maybe that's a .25 mm or .40 mm cannon shell.


31 posted on 03/02/2006 8:51:25 PM PST by garyhope (Peace through superior firepower, A-10's, C-130Y gunships, rational thought and pragmatism.)
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To: r9etb

blue or green corrosion is typical on copper and brass, especially if its been exposed to salt water. The rust I was refering to appears to be rust dust that came off the beltand was left on the casing


32 posted on 03/02/2006 8:53:39 PM PST by mountn man (Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic.)
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To: fso301; All

I'm sorry, but those rounds look much larger than 50 caliber.


33 posted on 03/02/2006 8:54:08 PM PST by nralife
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To: garyhope

it's a .50


34 posted on 03/02/2006 8:55:03 PM PST by SCPatriot77
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To: garyhope

Great minds think alike! I just said the same thing.

Imagine putting a round that size into a Barrett. Doesn't compute.


35 posted on 03/02/2006 8:55:51 PM PST by nralife
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To: nralife

you have a Barrett? there's obviously a wide angle lens here.


36 posted on 03/02/2006 8:58:04 PM PST by SCPatriot77
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To: fso301

Not rust on the weapon itself. On the mount, yes.


37 posted on 03/02/2006 8:59:06 PM PST by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: mountn man
The cases themselves have not rusted.

But they have corroded. You can see the green patina that corroded develops after some time exposed to the elements.

38 posted on 03/02/2006 9:07:32 PM PST by El Gato
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To: fso301

The gunner should be on a least an article 15 for have corroded ammo and links rusted and brass corrode. In combat that weapon would probably have a malfunction within the first or second burst of ten rounds each.
Where are the officers in charge of this idiot maning that BMG?


39 posted on 03/02/2006 9:08:17 PM PST by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: SENTINEL

It's a squid, not a Jarhead, manning the gun. Still, lousy shape for the mount to be in and the ammo looks damn scary.

No GMC worth his salt would ever let a mount deteriorate into that state.


40 posted on 03/02/2006 9:08:46 PM PST by Ronin
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To: fso301
Where are the officers?

To heck with the officers, that ain't the Soviet Navy. Where are the Chiefs?

Of course every land based Navy flight line I was ever on, or saw photos of, was a mess compared to Air Force ones. Most especially Air National Guard facilities. You can usually eat off the hanger floor there.

41 posted on 03/02/2006 9:13:51 PM PST by El Gato
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To: SENTINEL; LadyX
I'm afraid to say, this is a navy problem, not the young marine standing there!

That's a sailor, not a Marine. Draftsman 2nd Class Arturo Chavez according to the caption. If he was a Marine, LadyX would personally be out there chewing on him, and Texas Cowboy would be haunting his a$$.

42 posted on 03/02/2006 9:20:14 PM PST by El Gato
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To: fso301
The gun looks pretty good other than that mount with some rust on top there. The ammo looks downright scary, links rusted and cases look kinda rough.

This one case I blew up and circled (see that black dot in the center) looks like a case failure waiting to happen..


43 posted on 03/02/2006 9:24:53 PM PST by eXe (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: calex59
Good evening.

That looks like the mount, rather than the gun. I would guess that it whould have been painted rather than phosphorized and more likely to rust.

It's too heavy to hump, whatever it is.

Michael Frazier
44 posted on 03/02/2006 9:25:34 PM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: Ronin
The M2 itself, looks clean and cared for..
The M2's mount, has flourishing rust.
The disintegrating belt clips are badly rusted.
The cartridges are FILTHY, with corrosion and particulate matter.

The M2 is a brutal performer - and I have little doubt she will consume the garbage this squid is feeding her -- but I would think his life and the lives of his shipmates and the welfare of his ship --- dictated that he serve the M2 cleaner food to avoid a very dangerous jam in time of peril.

Semper Fi
45 posted on 03/02/2006 9:38:56 PM PST by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: fso301

Looks like rust to me, especially on the recoil absorbers.

It may just be the angle of the photo, but those look more like 20mm rounds than a 50cal Browning Machine Gun rounds. Plus, notice the three different colors on the "bullets." Does the Navy have a 20 mm gun other than the phalanx?


46 posted on 03/02/2006 9:43:00 PM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Travis McGee
Standing orders are that ammo, links, and belts are never to polished. If the armorer issued it, it's supposed to be good to go.

Of course if an armorer handed me ammo that looked like that I'd find some way to crap in his messkit.

L

47 posted on 03/02/2006 10:34:19 PM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everybody else shows me their hands.)
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To: fso301

That picture is bizarre. The gun itself appears to be well maintained, but the mount is corroding and that ammo should have gone over the side, not into the gun. It must be the perspective that makes the rounds look so big, but no lense made them look that ugly. I always figured squids didn't know anything about guns, but I was mistaken.

They don't know anything about ammo.


48 posted on 03/03/2006 12:00:05 AM PST by UncleJeff
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To: SCPatriot77

The rusty spot appears to be on the gun mount and not on the Ma Deuce.


49 posted on 03/03/2006 12:32:20 AM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Our enemies act on ecstatic revelations from their god. We act on the advice of lawyers.)
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To: Sola Veritas

50 posted on 03/03/2006 12:37:58 AM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Our enemies act on ecstatic revelations from their god. We act on the advice of lawyers.)
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