Posted on 03/03/2006 5:09:00 PM PST by LouAvul
When Cardinal Roger Mahony called on Roman Catholics this week to embrace immigrants regardless of legal status, he wasn't just reiterating the church's long tradition of reaching out to the downtrodden.
Mahony and other U.S. Catholic bishops are increasingly weighing into the debate over what to do about the roughly 11 million illegal immigrants living in the United States - a development that's being met with criticism from groups pushing for tougher immigration law enforcement.
Catholic leaders have launched a "Justice for Immigrants" campaign, appealed to President Bush and congressional leaders for a legalization program, and sharply criticized a bill passed by the U.S. House of Representatives in December to tighten border controls.
Among other things, the bill - now before the Senate - would obligate churches and other social organizations to ask immigrants for legal documentation before providing assistance.
A handful of bishops have denounced it. Mahony, the leader of the nation's largest archdiocese, went a step further this week. He promised to defy it if it's passed into law.
"I would say to all priests, deacons and members of the church that we are not going to observe this law," Mahony said after an Ash Wednesday Mass calling on Catholics to "make room" for immigrants.
Church leaders say they are simply adhering to Catholic teachings about compassion. But groups pushing for a crackdown on illegal immigration accuse them of trying to bolster their flock by catering to Hispanics, who comprise the majority of undocumented newcomers.
(Excerpt) Read more at modbee.com ...
That's it, in a nutshell.
BTW, I think 11 million is an understatement.
So they want everyone who entered the country illegally to appear before an immigration judge?
This is more about socialism/NWO than ethnicity.
Mahoney and the chancery queens are "Progressives" hiding behind the Church.
As a Catholic, I see the Mahoney position as the gravest INJUSTICE to the untold numbers of people from other parts of the world who would come here LEGALLY if only all the room for immigrants hadn't been STOLEN by the criminal immigrants. Further, I won't be cowed into accepting the position just because some Church leaders say it. Again, as a Catholic, I am only bound to accept the infallibility of the Pope and then only when he speaks "ex cathedra".
I just read the other day that our diocese has now hired an immigration lawyer. And they are asking for more money, yea.
This is a losing position taken by the American Catholic Church. They are trying to take advantage of the fact that most of these "immigrants" are Catholic. It is cheap pandering of the first order. Kind of like tolerating pedophilic priests and then declaring bankruptcy when the lawsuits are awarded in a court of law.
Sorry, bishops and cardinals. One of the first tenets of God's laws are to obey man's laws if they are not unjust. There is nothing unjust about requiring legal immigration.
For decades the Church tolerated "liberation theology" in Mexico, Latin America, and South America which resulted in oppressive leftist governments. Now these people are getting out of the hellholes this policy created and illegally entering the USA costing legal Americans millions of $$$. As a Catholic, they can kiss my rosary if they think I am going to stand for this.
Papalbots flame away!
So do I, mainly because the government admits to between 11 and 13 million being here. That should tell you all you need to know. Bank on 22+.
How about launching a program that demands Equal Justice For All? If an illegal alien breaks the law then the illegal alien gets arrested, just like everyone else.
It ain't justice when a foreign national gets away with breaking the law.
ping
As a non-Catholic, I want to know why the Catholic Church is promoting the invasion of other countries by illegal immigrants, but not inviting all these hordes to move to the Vatican. The Catholic Church has become the biggest promoter of socialism-communism in the world, both directly, by preaching these political doctrines from the pulpit, and indirectly, by refusing to abandon their hopelessly anachronistic teachings against birth control, which inevitably expands the already impoverished hordes of socialist-hand-out-craving masses. They run around these already overpopulated countries, which have dead-in-the-water economies, tell everybody to make as many babies as humanly possible, and then encourage the excess population to illegally invade other countries. We're told we should have "compassion" for them because they're so poor they can't feed their children if they don't invade wealthier countries. Well then STOP TELLING THEM TO HAVE BABIES THEY CAN'T FEED!
Mahony and Bush can both take their compassion and shove it!
I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church but this makes very sad.
In all fairness, the birthrates in Latin America have dropped DRASTICALLY over the past 30 years. In 1960, the average Mexican woman had six children. Today, that figure is 2.2.
Ping!
Ping!
I have never seen the basis for these estimates, have you?
A thread like this gives the nativists a chance to rant against both the immigrants and the Catholic Church. Don't confuse them with the facts, or you'll spoil their fun.
I guess we shouldn't confuse commies like yourself with facts either. WE wouldn't want you to stop supporting law breakers.
You guys are great. You planning to get drunk tonight and beat up some Mexicans???
Are you going to get high and burn an American Flag?
What are doing on a conservative forum? Is DU down tonight?
On the other hand, it is wrong --- criminally wrong ---- for people to break our laws and cross our borders without authorization.
And it is even more wrong to reward lawbreaking by providing powerful incentives-- jobs, medical and educational benefits, in-state tuition at the State University, the whole goodie-bag!
One of the most heart-breaking things is that 300 - 400 human beings, vulnerable precious human beings of all ages and both sexes, will perish horribly in the Sonoran Desert this year and every year, because they have been LURED here by this dangling pinata of perverse incentives.
The "rewards" for illegal border-crossing are neither just nor charitable: they are part of a big picture of brutal systemic evil.
Let's not forget that all those who HIRE border-violators as domestic servants, nannies, cooks, dishwashers, landscapers, roofers, orchard workers, field hands and day-laborers, --- the EMPLOYERS -- ARE ILLEGALS, TOO.
So I suppose you have to say, "OK, Cardinal Mahoney, dig deep into your OWN pockets --- and get Catholics to dig deep in THEIR own pockets --- to provide the sandwiches, cots and clean water for the people who arrive here hungry, parched and exhausted. And then tell them that lawbreaking is a sin, and that they should go home and not violate other people's borders or invade other people's countries.
It's a lot more complicated than that, I know. But we do have to do both: extend decent Christian charity to the desperate, and try to protect ourselves and the migrants both, from exploitation, criminality, and anarchy.
Don't worry, jerkweed. They wouldn't let even you die in the street.
L
Why can't they allow more immigrants in LEGALLY, instead of letting them sneak in, and STAY, with a wink and a nod.
There is, however, a basic injustice in requiring priests and ministers to inquire about the status of a person before they minister to them, which is what this silly legislation would demand.
I don't know a single priest or bishop who would obey this law.
It's not Mahoney's job to be a bagman for the INS.
L
When will the catholic bishops submit themselves to the law?
They have no credibility over this and the pedophile priest issue!!!!!
Well, here in sunny California's Coachella Valley (USA) that 2.2 figure is reached by about the age of 18....
(My figures confirmed by the foolproof 'Baby-Strollers-In-Walmart' polling method)
There's a helluva lot of difference between "ministering" and "harboring", Sink. Time to get those blinders off and widen your focus, amigo.
Glad to see that the Bible means something to this guy.
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
PS Rom. 13:1
Is it not pathetic that the Congress has to intrude on a pastoral relationship because it can't figure out how to deal with illegal immigration?
This ridiculous provision won't be observed, and I doubt it would even be enforced.
There is a difference. Unfortunately, the legislation doesn't recognize it.
I'm a strong advocate of securing our borders and enforcing our immigration laws...but...
To force the Church to ask for papers before giving aid is absurd and, IMO, unconstitutional.
How about first getting the states to stop rewarding illegal aliens with various services? Or ending the practice of having "sanctuary cities" and even getting local and state law(r) enforcement to cooperate with ICE?
I guess it's easier to point with outrage at Catholic priests.
But just for the record concealing a crime is a crime. It's called 'aiding and abetting'. It could also be called 'conspiracy after the fact'.
Now it apparently doesn't bother you that a ranking member of the Church heirarchy is going to blatantly break the law, but it kind of bugs me.
Is it not pathetic that the Congress has to intrude on a pastoral relationship because it can't figure out how to deal with illegal immigration?
I must have missed the part where covering up crimes falls under the rubric of 'pastoral relationships'. Can you point that part of Canon Law to me? Would that be the same 'pastoral relationship' that pedophile priests have with their victims?
I'm thinking a few RICO prosecutions would be in order. But then the Catholic Church in this country has a long and rich history of covering up for criminal pedophiles so why not add violations of immigration laws to the pile.
The Pope should start excommunicating some American Bishops and Cardinals IMO.
L
So you're for demanding that a priest ask a person for his "papers" before he helps him?
The Pope should start excommunicating some American Bishops and Cardinals IMO.
I'd put some serious coin on Benedict XVI being in full agreement with Mahoney and the US Bishops' policy on immigration.
Of course we all know the Catholic Church has considered itself above the Law in this country for quite some time. They've covered up for pedophiles, now they're covering up for folks who break our immigration laws.
It's way past time some enterprising US Attorney used the RICO statutes against the American Catholic Church.
I'd put some serious coin on Benedict XVI being in full agreement with Mahoney and the US Bishops' policy on immigration.
I'd put some serious coin that the Mexican drug cartels are fully in agreement with Mahoney and the US Bishops policy as well. Hell it's pretty obvious that NAMBLA was fully in favor of their policies on man-boy sex for the last 30 years or so.
L
So you are in favor of the clergy becoming INS agents. That won't happen, under any circumstances. I doubt Protestant ministers would obey such a provision, either.
It's way past time some enterprising US Attorney used the RICO statutes against the American Catholic Church.
The Supreme Court ruled out the use of RICO against anti-abortion protesters; the chance it would agree they could be used against a religious organization is nil.
I'd put some serious coin that the Mexican drug cartels are fully in agreement with Mahoney and the US Bishops policy as well. Hell it's pretty obvious that NAMBLA was fully in favor of their policies on man-boy sex for the last 30 years or so.
Your posts are just your descent into garden-variety religious bigotry.
No, I'm in favor of Priests, and everyone else for that matter, obeying the Law.
Your posts are just your descent into garden-variety religious bigotry.
Wow so it's bigotry to speak the truth. The American Catholic Church engaged in 'shuffle the pedophile' for the last 40 or 50 years. That's a fact. I don't think pointing that up is 'bigotry'.
Now the American Catholic Church has announced it's going to conspire to break American immigration laws. That's unacceptable to me. It should be unacceptable to most Catholics as well.
Now get this through your skull. Reporting a criminal does not make one a member of the Law Enforcement community. It does make one a good citizen.
The last time the Catholic Church picked and chose what laws they were going to obey they ended up protecting pedophiles preying on children inside Churches. Apparently you're in favor of Priests setting themselves up to be above the law.
Real holy behavior that.
L
They will not obey this provision. How many bishops have to say that before Congress gets the message?
Apparently you're in favor of Priests setting themselves up to be above the law.
If that law interferes in their responsibility, which is, primarily, to minister to people in need, then I absolutely favor priests and ministers ignoring that particular law.
Get this through your skull: if this provision is passed by the Senate, it will be ignored by those for whom it is intended.
Then prosecute them. If they discuss it amongst themselves then try the lot of them for Conspiracy. Drug dealers don't obey laws either. Is it alright for them to ignore the laws they don't like?
If that law interferes in their responsibility, which is, primarily, to minister to people in need, then I absolutely favor priests and ministers ignoring that particular law.
They can minister to them on their way back to their Country of origin. There's nothing in this law that prevents them from ministering. They can minister until they're blue in the face.
They can minister to them as they're arrested.
They can minister to them as they're booked.
They can minister to them as they're awaiting deportation.
They can minister to them as they're boarding the busses and airplanes back home.
But they cannot pick and chose which laws they will obey.
If they want to play that game they should be prepared to accept the consequences which include fines and jail time. If they don't want to do that, they're just another group of whining lawbreakers who should have the book thrown at them.
Then they can minister to other prisoners while they serve their hopefully lengthy prison sentences.
L
The United States government is not going to prosecute several hundred clergymen. You know that.
This provision has already been so criticized that it will be dropped by the Senate.
That's a shame.
So once again the American Catholic Church flirts dangerously with becoming a criminal enterprise. Real holy behavior that.
L
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